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STLDomer

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The funny thing about this, and as someone who used to post a ton of recruiting related posts, is IMO the sites have no real copyright stance for hearsay passed through multiple mouths, hunches with no real basis, or texts from some high school kid. That’s 99.9% of paywall info. I do understand and agree with Lax’s point that it’s not worth fighting it with the threat of legal action, even if it wouldn’t stand.

Just trying to put down the common man forum!
 

greyhammer90

the drunk piano player
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The funny thing about this, and as someone who used to post a ton of recruiting related posts, is IMO the sites have no real copyright stance for hearsay passed through multiple mouths, hunches with no real basis, or texts from some high school kid. That’s 99.9% of paywall info. I do understand and agree with Lax’s point that it’s not worth fighting it with the threat of legal action, even if it wouldn’t stand.

Just trying to put down the common man forum!

Well the other thing that irks me is that we've been told previously that we are allowed to post insider info on this board, so long as we don't copy and paste exact word for word stories. That's what was said last time this happened. But that doesn't appear to be what dwshade did. My reading of Lax's initial post was that he was restating information he had picked up elsewhere.
 
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GATTACA!

It's about to get gross
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giphy.gif


I still have no idea where this mindset comes from. If someone could explain an actual legal way this could happen I'd love to hear it. You can't slap an exclusive right on information. You can't stop a customer of yours from discussing information outside your teeny tiny consumer base. You can't get an injunction on speech because first amendment. You can't show damages. They can't do a damn thing.

I'll take this opportunity to bring up reddit.com/r/irishenvy. Post anything you want there. Those "journalist" hacks can't do shit.

Yeah and at least that sub has some legit mods!
 

phgreek

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The funny thing about this, and as someone who used to post a ton of recruiting related posts, is IMO the sites have no real copyright stance for hearsay passed through multiple mouths, hunches with no real basis, or texts from some high school kid. That’s 99.9% of paywall info. I do understand and agree with Lax’s point that it’s not worth fighting it with the threat of legal action, even if it wouldn’t stand.

Just trying to put down the common man forum!

Sure there is filler of little value on pay sites, but the conversations they have are theirs to share...its their time spent doing it and not something else. The insights they gather from those conversations are theirs as well, and if it is obvious their thoughts were lifted..thats wrong.

Sure I can see the grapevine landing similar info on the free sites...but I think the mods are pretty good at seeing what is common knowledge hearsay that lands here.
 

IrishLax

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Well the other thing that irks me is that we've been told previously that we are allowed to post insider info on this board, so long as we don't copy and paste exact word for word stories. That's what was said last time this happened.

That's not -- at all -- what the guidelines say. We explicitly laid them out to avoid this sort of thing.

But that doesn't appear to be what dwshade did. My reading of Lax's initial post was that he was restating information he had picked up elsewhere.

It was so bad he literally had multiple posts in a singular thread that were pointed out to me by writers on a premium site where he did exactly what we asked him not to and had warned him not to. He's been a serial offender with tons of warnings and tons of second chances because of his tenure here and the fact that he's well liked.

You cannot just go rip shit from behind paywall without attribution. Even if we could win that case in court, it's obviously not ethical. What we ask people to do is not hard... if you're literally grabbing something from someone's site, post a link and attribute it. NDCrusader posts TONS of stuff and always seems to follow simple, basic guidelines.

And to be clear, it's sure as hell not "legal" in most cases to share content from behind a paywall. For example, a protected scholarly article where someone summarizes the whole thing and gives the content away to everyone is almost certainly breaking the law. It does not matter if they copy and pasted it or changed a couple words while still relaying all of the content. ESPN has won cases against people who do things like take Mel Kiper's big board and say "Mel Kiper's first round was XYZ"... what IS legal is writing "commentary" of any sort on paywall content with attribution. For example, if you write "Mel Kiper issued a new big board, and it has Quenton Nelson going in the top 5. (LINK) That'd be really great for Q to be one of the highest drafted guards ever!" that'd fine.

In short, just follow the fucking directions. They aren't hard to follow. If someone is too lazy or stupid to follow simple directions (and multiple warnings) then they shouldn't be posting here. We're not going to jeopardize the site at large for someone's laziness. We're not going to go to war with a bunch hard working professionals for someone's laziness.
 
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SonofOahu

King Kamehameha
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I used to be a 'proud liberal'... then worked with actual democrats and realized that wasn't what I wanted to be. I was young and thought, "I must be Republican then!" and worked with local Republicans... I found them much more palatable but not so much so that I ever felt comfortable... now I just hate everyone, especially those who are intolerant of others views and cultures,... and the Dutch.

Dude, you and I think on the same wavelength... Therefore, you must be a total asshole!

72b3889e29bdf15428abe71d79f4de5f3b59a3908f4bf4802db220a8ea8a55a7.jpg
 

BGIF

Varsity Club
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I used to be a 'proud liberal'... then worked with actual democrats and realized that wasn't what I wanted to be. I was young and thought, "I must be Republican then!" and worked with local Republicans... I found them much more palatable but not so much so that I ever felt comfortable... now I just hate everyone, especially those who are intolerant of others views and cultures,... and the Dutch.


The whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The french hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much!!

...

They're rioting in Africa
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't so to us
Will be done by our fellow man

60 years ago. Still valid unfortunately.


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/L8-BI89mb9A" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
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dwshade was just permanently banned for posting premium recruiting information without permission or attribution. He has had multiple prior warnings, including a previous short ban in January of this year. We received a complaint today from writers who had their information ripped off, verified that it violated our posting guidelines, discussed it in the mod forum, and then took action.

If anyone has questions about posting guidelines please let us know.

Not agreeing/disagreeing trying to argue, etc., but I find them complaining to be somewhat comical. It's not like this site is the Washington Post or WSJ and is read by millions every day. Seems to me they must be scraping by if they have time to complain that someone posted their info on a forum.
 

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
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Post a link to the content.

Attribute the author.

Relay the information as if you're discussing things with a friend.
 

NDdomer2

Local Sports vBookie
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Post a link to the content.

Attribute the author.

Relay the information as if you're discussing things with a friend.

I know the rules and understand their purpose but the above seems near contradictory. I don't think I've ever once went to a friend and been like hey man guess what I read by Irish lax at Irish envy. Com, .......
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
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Post a link to the content.

Attribute the author.

Relay the information as if you're discussing things with a friend.

Spider-Man memes/gifs ... got it!

<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="5305536" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="0.9025641025641026"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/comeatmebro-spiderman-gif-5305536">Comeatmebro Spiderman GIF</a> from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/comeatmebro-gifs">Comeatmebro GIFs</a></div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

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IrishLax

Something Witty
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Not agreeing/disagreeing trying to argue, etc., but I find them complaining to be somewhat comical. It's not like this site is the Washington Post or WSJ and is read by millions every day. Seems to me they must be scraping by if they have time to complain that someone posted their info on a forum.

Every professional site out there is protective of "their" info because they're the ones putting in the legwork to get it. Many have rules against sharing any information at all from another site for the reasons we noted above... it's legally gray, and ethically black.

While this site might not seem "professional" because none of the people that run it aren't paid, it effectively is no different than any sports website. At the end of the day owned by investors who treat it as an income property/asset. Accordingly, it should be obvious that people should not "profit" from ripping off work from other people, right? That's why they complain. If you were a professional that spent hours and hours calling/texting teenagers to get scoops -- and your entire business model depends on people subscribing to get these scoops -- then obviously you wouldn't want someone stealing all your content and aggregating it somewhere else for free.
 

GATTACA!

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I know the rules and understand their purpose but the above seems near contradictory. I don't think I've ever once went to a friend and been like hey man guess what I read by Irish lax at Irish envy. Com, .......

What the heck has he ever said that was worth repeating?
 

Ndaccountant

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Random commentary here, but I would suspect that threads like the politics/trump thread are ripe with the same sort of posting infringements.

Just an observation.
 

gkIrish

Greek God
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Random commentary here, but I would suspect that threads like the politics/trump thread are ripe with the same sort of posting infringements.

Just an observation.

Except those infringements aren't investigated by those authors. Lax is literally contacted every time this happens but the authors/sites that are being infringed.

While it may be equally unethical, we simply don't have the ability to patrol that thread and investigate what is or isn't being sourced. And we don't go on a manhunt in the football threads either. We are notified by someone else.
 

Ndaccountant

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Except those infringements aren't investigated by those authors. Lax is literally contacted every time this happens but the authors/sites that are being infringed.

While it may be equally unethical, we simply don't have the ability to patrol that thread and investigate what is or isn't being sourced. And we don't go on a manhunt in the football threads either. We are notified by someone else.

Oh I know, just wanted to point that out as others have commented on the perceived pettiness of recruiting sites. It's the fact they have to do it, considering their rather shallow revenue pool compared to other more prominent sites.
 

Irish YJ

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rules or rules, even if they are dumb rules.... is the way i was raised. if you don't like the rules, you don't have to stay...
that said....
hopefully he finds a way to come back under another username lol.
 

Kingbish01

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rules or rules, even if they are dumb rules.... is the way i was raised. if you don't like the rules, you don't have to stay...
that said....
hopefully he finds a way to come back under another username lol.

I thought that goes without saying..lol

But the funny thing is, even when he comes back he will follow the rules. Then everyone is happy!
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
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Every professional site out there is protective of "their" info because they're the ones putting in the legwork to get it. Many have rules against sharing any information at all from another site for the reasons we noted above... it's legally gray, and ethically black.

While this site might not seem "professional" because none of the people that run it aren't paid, it effectively is no different than any sports website. At the end of the day owned by investors who treat it as an income property/asset. Accordingly, it should be obvious that people should not "profit" from ripping off work from other people, right? That's why they complain. If you were a professional that spent hours and hours stalking teenagers to get scoops -- and your entire business model depends on people subscribing to get these scoops -- then obviously you wouldn't want someone stealing all your content and aggregating it somewhere else for free.


FIFY

I get that and I'm not complaining, simply find it comical for a number of reasons. The primary being the more exposure a guy gets the better his chances of getting subscribers.

When I worked at Sallie Mae, one of the collection companies they owned wanted to allow delinquent borrowers to make payments online. However, they wanted the delinquent borrower to create an account, and provide all kinds of info to make it easier for them to track you down later on. I pointed out that those borrowers were avoiding the collection calls for a reason and if they have to jump through 15 hoops to make a payment, they probably aren't going to do it, so there is lost revenue. I convinced them to allow the borrower to make a payment by simply proving name, account and form of payment, all without creating a log in. $30K a month in revenue almost instantly.

Moral of the story........Sometimes it takes a new approach to get the results you want.
 

irishog77

NOT SINBAD's NEPHEW
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Since all these "reporters" are coming on here and reading our boards:

-Anna, you're hot. Call me. Yes, I know you don't cover ND anymore, but you're still checking IE.

-Dude in Oregon that started your own site-- you're a loser.

Anna and dude in Oregon, both of you make sure you source your info and properly cite.
 

ACamp1900

Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
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You think Alex Curry checks out IE...?? If so,....... Alex,... I love you.
 
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