'13 DC ATH Devin Butler (Notre Dame Signed LOI)

[IrishLax]

I don't think it's silly at all. LOL

First, you are just assuming, based on "eyewitnesses" that he did nothing wrong but break up a fight. Would you like me to go into how credible and reliable a bunch of intoxicated college kids are? Oh, and I bet they aren't bias at all against police.....

When a dozen+ independent people tell a completely different story than what's in the cop's police report AND the cops didn't stop to take any witness statements I don't know what to tell you. Most of the accounts I'm talking about came from employees of the bar who were NOT drinking and have zero reason motive to lie about any aspect of the arrest.

I feel that we should cut ties and move on from Butler. I've seen the term "ND men" more than once on my short time here and Butler is clearly not a good representation of that term

This is the part that is "silly." You are making judgments and reaching conclusions (including that he's a bad person and should be kicked out of school) without waiting for the case to be charged much less adjudicated, or considering that there are lots of people contradicting the "facts" of the case, or waiting for any video and/or other hard evidence to be presented.

I know a lot of people that know Devin Butler, and it's incredibly ridiculous to jump to your conclusions. Not one person I know considers him a "bad kid." There is no evidence of him being a bad kid. There is evidence of this guy being a bad cop. But let's ignore that, right?

Butler is not some commodity, he's a real person with a family and a life. To make character judgments like you just did based on nothing but presumption of guilt is outrageous. I was being polite calling it "silly". It flies in the face of how we are supposed to treat people (legally and socially) in this country.

Can't wait to come back to this after Butler isn't convicted of either of these alleged felonies.

 

[ResLife Hero]

When a dozen+ independent people tell a completely different story than what's in the cop's police report AND the cops didn't stop to take any witness statements I don't know what to tell you. Most of the accounts I'm talking about came from employees of the bar who were NOT drinking and have zero reason motive to lie about any aspect of the arrest.



This is the part that is "silly." You are making judgments and reaching conclusions (including that he's a bad person and should be kicked out of school) without waiting for the case to be charged much less adjudicated, or considering that there are lots of people contradicting the "facts" of the case, or waiting for any video and/or other hard evidence to be presented.

I know a lot of people that know Devin Butler, and it's incredibly ridiculous to jump to your conclusions. Not one person I know considers him a "bad kid." There is no evidence of him being a bad kid. There is evidence of this guy being a bad cop. But let's ignore that, right?

Butler is not some commodity, he's a real person with a family and a life. To make character judgments like you just did based on nothing but presumption of guilt is outrageous. I was being polite calling it "silly". It flies in the face of how we are supposed to treat people (legally and socially) in this country.

Can't wait to come back to this after Butler isn't convicted of either of these alleged felonies.

Are these statements public somewhere? I have been looking but unable to find anything besides the NDNation link from earlier.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

There is a standard voir dire question that is aimed at IrishBroker on one end of the spectrum.

"Would any prospective juror give more or less weight to the testimony of a police
officer or law enforcement agent than another witness, merely because that person
is a police officer or law enforcement agent?"

 

[IrishBroker]

When a dozen+ independent people tell a completely different story than what's in the cop's police report AND the cops didn't stop to take any witness statements I don't know what to tell you. Most of the accounts I'm talking about came from employees of the bar who were NOT drinking and have zero reason motive to lie about any aspect of the arrest.



This is the part that is "silly." You are making judgments and reaching conclusions (including that he's a bad person and should be kicked out of school) without waiting for the case to be charged much less adjudicated, or considering that there are lots of people contradicting the "facts" of the case, or waiting for any video and/or other hard evidence to be presented.

I know a lot of people that know Devin Butler, and it's incredibly ridiculous to jump to your conclusions. Not one person I know considers him a "bad kid." There is no evidence of him being a bad kid. There is evidence of this guy being a bad cop. But let's ignore that, right?

Butler is not some commodity, he's a real person with a family and a life. To make character judgments like you just did based on nothing but presumption of guilt is outrageous. I was being polite calling it "silly". It flies in the face of how we are supposed to treat people (legally and socially) in this country.

Can't wait to come back to this after Butler isn't convicted of either of these alleged felonies.

If he doesn't get charged, good for him. I hope he learns from this.

I didn't say he was a bad kid or guy. I said based on what Ive read about this, he isn't a ND man. Facts are is he got drunk and go into it with cops. Devin even admits to being "incredibly emotional and intoxicated" (his actual words)

I find it REAL hard to believe that he's 100% innocent in this scenario. Like I said, 90% of these types of events are some kid, who's had too much to drink, puts his hands on a cop (whether or not he knows he's a cop is irrelevant) out of frustration or because he's not paying attention.

 

[IrishBroker]

Are these statements public somewhere? I have been looking but unable to find anything besides the NDNation link from earlier.

No. I've looked.

I'm also going to put in a call to my buddy up in Chicago, a 15yr detective, to see what he thinks or knows about it. He always gives me some tips about ND guys and is usually right on the money.

 

[gkIrish]

When a dozen+ independent people tell a completely different story than what's in the cop's police report AND the cops didn't stop to take any witness statements I don't know what to tell you. Most of the accounts I'm talking about came from employees of the bar who were NOT drinking and have zero reason motive to lie about any aspect of the arrest.

I would not agree with that. The Backer has every incentive to keep ND fans happy. They would lose business if they started throwing ND football players under the bus.

 

[arrowryan]

I would not agree with that. The Backer has every incentive to keep ND fans happy. They would lose business if they started throwing ND football players under the bus.

Also, I see people working the bar at The Backer taking shots all the time haha

 

[ND NYC]

what happened to bouncers (not cops) breaking up scuffles in bars?

 

[Wingman Ray]

Not only that, Butler may have won the lottery.

I mean some people go to college to play football, and after four years get rich, but this may be a bit of a different angle on all that.

If South Bend still employed a cop who lied on reports, and almost beat citizens to death, and it is true that no witness statements were taken in this case before the police officer preferred charges, there is a massive liability here.

Not only would the department be guilty of allowing a compromised officer on the street, but apparently nobody checked on his claims before his affidavit worked its way through the system.

That, (if true) is a really, really, really, bad thing.

I would love to hear why SB would keep a piece of garbage like this on the force. I would think people like this you would weed out after his past history. Or at least not put the POS on patrol.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

When a dozen+ independent people tell a completely different story than what's in the cop's police report AND the cops didn't stop to take any witness statements I don't know what to tell you. Most of the accounts I'm talking about came from employees of the bar who were NOT drinking and have zero reason motive to lie about any aspect of the arrest.



This is the part that is "silly." You are making judgments and reaching conclusions (including that he's a bad person and should be kicked out of school) without waiting for the case to be charged much less adjudicated, or considering that there are lots of people contradicting the "facts" of the case, or waiting for any video and/or other hard evidence to be presented.

I know a lot of people that know Devin Butler, and it's incredibly ridiculous to jump to your conclusions. Not one person I know considers him a "bad kid." There is no evidence of him being a bad kid. There is evidence of this guy being a bad cop. But let's ignore that, right?

Butler is not some commodity, he's a real person with a family and a life. To make character judgments like you just did based on nothing but presumption of guilt is outrageous. I was being polite calling it "silly". It flies in the face of how we are supposed to treat people (legally and socially) in this country.

Can't wait to come back to this after Butler isn't convicted of either of these alleged felonies.

I'm with Lax. Let's actually wait to see if there is anything that can corroborate Butler's story. He has seemed like a good guy during his time at ND, I don't think we should throw that away until the investigation has concluded.

I suppose if we were only worried about how people view ND instead of worrying about the truth, then we could follow Broker's plan of action.

 

[Irish#1]

There is a standard voir dire question that is aimed at IrishBroker on one end of the spectrum.

"Would any prospective juror give more or less weight to the testimony of a police
officer or law enforcement agent than another witness, merely because that person
is a police officer or law enforcement agent?"

Given the current perception of police and given this officers past record, I think a jury would have a hard time siding with the prosecutor. Especially if there are countless witnesses to counter the officers report.

 

[IrishBroker]

Given the current perception of police and given this officers past record, I think a jury would have a hard time siding with the prosecutor. Especially if there are countless witnesses to counter the officers report.

I'd like to know where everyone is coming up with all these countless witnesses....Not saying it's not true, but where are the cell videos and people coming forward?

I haven't seen anything. And in this day and age, it would be all over the internet if there were.

But who knows...

 

[IrishLax]

I'd like to know where everyone is coming up with all these countless witnesses....Not saying it's not true, but where are the cell videos and people coming forward?

I haven't seen anything. And in this day and age, it would be all over the internet if there were.

But who knows...

Video and witness accounts are not the same thing. I don't have a clue if there is video or not. I imagine there will be some produced at some point given it's a bar and bars usually has exterior surveillance, but I haven't seen any.

It should be obvious where people hear things. You live in the area, or if you don't you text/call people that were there. I don't why someone in your shoes expects to have information available to them via Google search. With that said, if you subscribed to ISD you could've gotten a first hand account from a backer security guard, or there was the one linked on NDNation... there are some publicly consumable reports out there, but I also don't trust something from people I don't know, so I don't know how much weight you want to put in that. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable, but so are police reports that try to paint Devin Butler as "assaulting" a female when he was saving a girl from getting kicked in the head.

Also, funny how the cops also refused to take statements from people that were there when they volunteered them... first time in my life I've heard of that... sure is convenient...

 

[IrishBroker]

Video and witness accounts are not the same thing. I don't have a clue if there is video or not. I imagine there will be some produced at some point given it's a bar and bars usually has exterior surveillance, but I haven't seen any.

It should be obvious where people hear things. You live in the area, or if you don't you text/call people that were there. I don't why someone in your shoes expects to have information available to them via Google search. With that said, if you subscribed to ISD you could've gotten a first hand account from a backer security guard, or there was the one linked on NDNation... there are some publicly consumable reports out there, but I also don't trust something from people I don't know, so I don't know how much weight you want to put in that. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable, but so are police reports that try to paint Devin Butler as "assaulting" a female when he was saving a girl from getting kicked in the head.

Also, funny how the cops also refused to take statements from people that were there when they volunteered them... first time in my life I've heard of that... sure is convenient...

And please don't mistake me for calling you a liar or anything like that. That's not my intention at all. It's just usually with a fight video involving a high profile program or player, it would be all over the internet.

Also, while we may not have all the info, Butler kinda indicted himself by admitting that he was drunk and very emotional. Doesn't mean he should be charged with a felony...


Besides...what kinda girl beats up another one and kicks her in the head? LOL. He needs some new women in his life.

 

[Irish#1]

Video and witness accounts are not the same thing. I don't have a clue if there is video or not. I imagine there will be some produced at some point given it's a bar and bars usually has exterior surveillance, but I haven't seen any.

It should be obvious where people hear things. You live in the area, or if you don't you text/call people that were there. I don't why someone in your shoes expects to have information available to them via Google search. With that said, if you subscribed to ISD you could've gotten a first hand account from a backer security guard, or there was the one linked on NDNation... there are some publicly consumable reports out there, but I also don't trust something from people I don't know, so I don't know how much weight you want to put in that. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable, but so are police reports that try to paint Devin Butler as "assaulting" a female when he was saving a girl from getting kicked in the head.

Also, funny how the cops also refused to take statements from people that were there when they volunteered them... first time in my life I've heard of that... sure is convenient...

Not sure what else is around there, but banks, gas stations and a lot of other businesses have cameras so there may be something out there.

 

[mango4]

And please don't mistake me for calling you a liar or anything like that. That's not my intention at all. It's just usually with a fight video involving a high profile program or player, it would be all over the internet.

Also, while we may not have all the info, Butler kinda indicted himself by admitting that he was drunk and very emotional. Doesn't mean he should be charged with a felony...


Besides...what kinda girl beats up another one and kicks her in the head? LOL. He needs some new women in his life.

I feel like you don't know what that means because another girl kicking someone in the head isn't funny...

 

[NorthDakota]

I feel like you don't know what that means because another girl kicking someone in the head isn't funny...

Depends on the damage of said kick

 

[woolybug25]

Not sure what else is around there, but banks, gas stations and a lot of other businesses have cameras so there may be something out there.

Belmont Beverage is next door, but outside of that, I doubt there's any cameras out there.

You would think that responsible bar owners would have cameras for situations like this... But we're talking about The Linebacker. Ha

 

[greyhammer90]

Belmont Beverage is next door, but outside of that, I doubt there's any cameras out there.

You would think that responsible bar owners would have cameras for situations like this... But we're talking about The Linebacker. Ha

I feel as though you must not be aware that this implies laughter. Crime is not a laughing matter.

 

[woolybug25]

I feel as though you must not be aware that this implies laughter. Crime is not a laughing matter.

I laugh when I'm nervous...

 

[IrishBroker]

I feel like you don't know what that means because another girl kicking someone in the head isn't funny...

Lighten up.

I'm joking about the fact that Butler is hanging with some pretty rough females or a rough female.

 

[OCIrish]

I feel as though you must not be aware that this implies laughter. Crime is not a laughing matter.

Or, it simply implies sarcasm.....which is how I took it, because that's something I would've said.

 

[BGIF]

Given the current perception of police and given this officers past record, I think a jury would have a hard time siding with the prosecutor. Especially if there are countless witnesses to counter the officers report.

Like the "countless witnesses" that countered Darren Wilson's report in Ferguson?

Remember "Hands Up Don't Shoot"?

As for the "this officer's past record" ... what is it?

I read the article at the link Craig Krenzel provided in his post but that article reported an "accusation" not a conviction, a termination, nor even censure. Didn't see mention of a civil suit against the officer and/or SBPD. Did I miss seeing it? What was the disposition of that accusation?

I rather see the officer appropriately smeared IF he was found guilty at any level than smeared with, a what, 2 year old news article claiming brutality but not confirming it.

I'm neither defending the cop nor the student. I'd like to see a lot more to sort this out. Wednesday should shed some light by the action taken or not taken by the prosecutor.

 

[IrishLax]

A statement from the Backer:

Improper reporting implicated that Linebacker was responsible for the inappropriate actions of a student athlete. Surveillance video shows that the person involved was not in the building prior to his encounter with the police. The Linebacker will continue to observe the laws and rules that regulate the business. We will continue to maintain a safe environment for the enjoyment of our customers.

So does that mean they have video outside as well or...?

 

[woolybug25]

A statement from the Backer:

So does that mean they have video outside as well or...?

I'm calling bullshit on that. I'm running by there tomorrow and I want to see these fucking cameras. I think they are straight up lying. Furthermore, that's the last place in South Bend that tries to "maintain a safe environment for their customers". That place is a shithole that over serves, has served under aged football players and is well known as a place where things go bad. Fuck those guys.

 

[Rack Em]

I'm calling bullshit on that. I'm running by there tomorrow and I want to see these fucking cameras. I think they are straight up lying. Furthermore, that's the last place in South Bend that tries to "maintain a safe environment for their customers". That place is a shithole that over serves, has served under aged football players and is well known as a place where things go bad. Fuck those guys.

You won't do it. You won't...

 

[kmoose]

and his story doesn't add up with a lot of first hand witness accounts and some common sense.

What about his story doesn't add up?

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm calling bullshit on that. I'm running by there tomorrow and I want to see these fucking cameras. I think they are straight up lying. Furthermore, that's the last place in South Bend that tries to "maintain a safe environment for their customers". That place is a shithole that over serves, has served under aged football players and is well known as a place where things go bad. Fuck those guys.

Being a customer and complaining about over serving...bruh.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Being a customer and complaining about over serving...bruh.

It's a serious issue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[woolybug25]

You won't do it. You won't...

Oh you know I will...

Being a customer and complaining about over serving...bruh.

Kidding aside, maybe it takes a few grey hairs in your beard (or in your case... a few hairs in your beard ) to understand why there are laws against over serving. Frankly, if you are a sober bartender "maintaining a safe environment for your customers", then maybe you shouldn't feed the 20 year old coed 13 sex on the beach shots. Because she will probably end up kicking some other girl in the face once she gets outside, leading to her friend to one way ticket to don't taze me bro-town.

Inexperienced (and even experienced) drinkers endanger those around them when they drink more than they can handle. So it is even that more important to protect your patrons from those people intent on misusing your services. The Linebacker has consistently over served ND students for years. People have gotten assaulted, gotten DUI's and even died in car accidents after leaving their establishment. But yet they operate no differently than they always have. It's an irresponsible business.