'13 DC ATH Devin Butler (Notre Dame Signed LOI)

[koonja]

Come on Koon.

I highly doubt he will plead to any felonies and the charges will be lowered eventually. He may end up with some misdemeanors, which will prevent him from some jobs, but not all. And down the road if he does plead to any charges he can get them expunged from his record. or he can take AR and when probation is completed succesfully all charges get removed from his record.

Come on what?

If that account is accurate, he should have never been charged, let alone have to plea to a misdemeanor.

 

[#1rish]

One of my cop buddies said in some situations similar to this, they file battery on a police officer to cover themselves in the case the defendant claims they were themselves hurt or roughed up by police. Most of the time it doesn't stick and can be knocked down. Not 100% sure how accurate it is though.

 

[tussin]

Where is the burden of proof for the cop? If there are multiple witnesses claiming that the story is not true or accurate, how does a cop have a right to walk into a courtroom and just drop felony charges against someone? If it turns out that the story isn't true then the cop should face both career and legal repercussions.

I hate how much power local police have over an individual's future. A somewhat similar incident happened with me years ago -- so now literally nothing pisses me off more than stories like this.

 

[Booslum31]

Based on what i have read about the Butler incident...it took place at about the exact spot that my Avatar picture was taken. Gonna have to change it...bad karma.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Come on what?

If that account is accurate, he should have never been charged, let alone have to plea to a misdemeanor.

"Literally changes this kid's life because that just cut him out of 90% of jobs he might otherwise have had"

This is a dumb statement for all the reasons I wrote above. Even if remotely true, I doubt he ends up pleading to any felonies.

 

[IrishLax]

Where is the burden of proof for the cop? If there are multiple witnesses claiming that the story is not true or accurate, how does a cop have a right to walk into a courtroom and just drop felony charges against someone? If it turns out that the story isn't true then the cop should face both career and legal repercussions.

I hate how much power local police have over an individual's future. A somewhat similar incident happened with me years ago -- so now literally nothing pisses me off more than stories like this.

To be fair, he doesn't. The prosecutor gets the police report, weighs the evidence, and decides to file. So that's the check-and-balance, but it's hard for a prosecutor to not take a police a report at face value unless there is irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

 

[koonja]

"Literally changes this kid's life because that just cut him out of 90% of jobs he might otherwise have had"

This is a dumb statement for all the reasons I wrote above. Even if remotely true, I doubt he ends up pleading to any felonies.

A record for attacking an officer is a career limiter, regardless of whether it's a felony or misdemeanor. And that's not the point. My point is if the first hand account is remotely true, he shouldn't be fighting to plea anything down. He shouldn't have been charged.

 

[Wild Bill]

Where is the burden of proof for the cop? If there are multiple witnesses claiming that the story is not true or accurate, how does a cop have a right to walk into a courtroom and just drop felony charges against someone? If it turns out that the story isn't true then the cop should face both career and legal repercussions.

I hate how much power local police have over an individual's future. A somewhat similar incident happened with me years ago -- so now literally nothing pisses me off more than stories like this.

It's going to be difficult to convict Butler if the girl who was concussed gives a statement and is willing to testify to the facts laid out by Lax (from a poster on another site) above.

I was in a similar situation too. I was young, dumb and broke so the mere threat of charges was overwhelming. Thankfully everything worked out. Hopefully it does for Butler as well, assuming he's innocent.

 

[IrishBroker]

All that being said, and I appreciate the info and feedback....I just find it hard to believe that the cops totally fabricated this story and the cop that went to hospital, with injuries, is just outright lying about this and Butler is totally free and clear as it's just "wrong place, wrong time"

I just don't buy that. Why would Butler apologize and essentially admit his guilt if he did nothing wrong and it's just a misunderstanding?

Also, DA's bring charges, not cops. It's odd that if this happened like Lax said, the DA would go for felonies....and potentially have it thrown out....rather than a lesser charge he knows he could get?


I don't know. For Butler's sake, I hope what Lax is saying (or his sources) is true and they get some credible statements that contradict the cops claims

 

[Irishcop]

So now that DB has officially been indicted, does anyone think he will also be dismissed from the team? Hate it for the kid.

 

[IrishBroker]

A record for attacking an officer is a career limiter, regardless of whether it's a felony or misdemeanor. And that's not the point. My point is if the first hand account is remotely true, he shouldn't be fighting to plea anything down. He shouldn't have been charged.

Do you believe that Butler didn't do anything wrong at all? Because that's what it would take to get rid of all charges.

A cop was in the hospital...now, it doesn't mean that Butler was body slamming him and committed a felony, but I don't believe that Butler "did nothing"

 

[koonja]

Do you believe that Butler didn't do anything wrong at all? Because that's what it would take to get rid of all charges.

A cop was in the hospital...now, it doesn't mean that Butler was body slamming him and committed a felony, but I don't believe that Butler "did nothing"

I doubt he did nothing... That's why I qualified my statement with 'if true'. There's probably more to it, but if not, man, that's bad.

 

[IrishBroker]

So now that DB has officially been indicted, does anyone think he will also be dismissed from the team? Hate it for the kid.

Tough one....but yeah.

Can you have him hanging around the team while dealing with this issue?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

A record for attacking an officer is a career limiter, regardless of whether it's a felony or misdemeanor. And that's not the point. My point is if the first hand account is remotely true, he shouldn't be fighting to plea anything down. He shouldn't have been charged.

You are wrong on both accounts.

When a job does a background check they look to see if the person has ever been convicted of a crime, then if it is a misdemeanor or a felony. They don't look for specifics, unless on the application the person checked they have been convicted and then explained what happens.

I just don't think 90% of employers would not higher someone for a misdemeanor crime of assaulting a police office. i think it's much lower and you are clearly over exaggerating. I don't know if assaulting a police office has different degrees and there are some levels that are classified as misdemeanor and some that are classified as a felony.

You or someone you know clearly have never gone through the US court system. It's a very long and expensive process. If the charges are not dropped and Butler doesn't plea he will go to trial which is a crap shoot and he could end up facing serious jail time and spent a ton of money. by taking a plea, even if he is a 100% innocent, he most likely avoids jail and save a ton of money.

 

[IrishLax]

All that being said, and I appreciate the info and feedback....I just find it hard to believe that the cops totally fabricated this story and the cop that went to hospital, with injuries, is just outright lying about this and Butler is totally free and clear as it's just "wrong place, wrong time"

I just don't buy that. Why would Butler apologize and essentially admit his guilt if he did nothing wrong and it's just a misunderstanding?

Also, DA's bring charges, not cops. It's odd that if this happened like Lax said, the DA would go for felonies....and potentially have it thrown out....rather than a lesser charge he knows he could get?

I don't know. For Butler's sake, I hope what Lax is saying (or his sources) is true and they get some credible statements that contradict the cops claims

I doubt they totally fabricated it, I just think they're spinning it in the best possible light for themselves. I don't think they assessed the situation correctly or handled it at best, but I also don't think Butler is a completely innocent party.

I think it's tough to know who to believe right now and exactly how much to believe them... very interested to see how this plays out, and I'm hoping for the best for Devin.

 

[koonja]

I watched Straight out of Compton last night for the first time so I'm up for anything.

 

[IrishBroker]

I doubt they totally fabricated it, I just think they're spinning it in the best possible light for themselves. I don't think they assessed the situation correctly or handled it at best, but I also don't think Butler is a completely innocent party.

I think it's tough to know who to believe right now and exactly how much to believe them... very interested to see how this plays out, and I'm hoping for the best for Devin.

I agree. Hope it works out for him and that 15 mins of his life doesn't result in a lifetime of trouble (carrying a felony conviction)

I'm not trying to be a stickler about this issue, but I just have my doubts about the behavior of college kids and booze. When I bartended back in college, I saw how stupid and violent people can get

 

[koonja]

You are wrong on both accounts.

When a job does a background check they look to see if the person has ever been convicted of a crime, then if it is a misdemeanor or a felony. They don't look for specifics, unless on the application the person checked they have been convicted and then explained what happens.

I just don't think 90% of employers would not higher someone for a misdemeanor crime of assaulting a police office. i think it's much lower and you are clearly over exaggerating. I don't know if assaulting a police office has different degrees and there are some levels that are classified as misdemeanor and some that are classified as a felony.

You or someone you know clearly have never gone through the US court system. It's a very long and expensive process. If the charges are not dropped and Butler doesn't plea he will go to trial which is a crap shoot and he could end up facing serious jail time and spent a ton of money. by taking a plea, even if he is a 100% innocent, he most likely avoids jail and save a ton of money.

How? Are you the president of the federal Human Resources Department?

Yes. And all things equal, that person with the misdemeanor never gets a chance to explain his/her side because there are other applicants with clean records.

At the jobs a ND grad should be going for - yes they will (IMO). We're not talking Enterprise (I hope).

They can't catch me.

My point is IFF the 'first hand account' is accurate, he shouldn't be pleaing at all because he shouldn't have been charged. Getting charged for a crime you didn't do isn't all of a sudden 'OK' because a misdemeanor is no biggie (although I think it is).

 

[tussin]

You are wrong on both accounts.

When a job does a background check they look to see if the person has ever been convicted of a crime, then if it is a misdemeanor or a felony. They don't look for specifics, unless on the application the person checked they have been convicted and then explained what happens.

I just don't think 90% of employers would not higher someone for a misdemeanor crime of assaulting a police office. i think it's much lower and you are clearly over exaggerating. I don't know if assaulting a police office has different degrees and there are some levels that are classified as misdemeanor and some that are classified as a felony.

Disagree, especially at the types of jobs ND grads are gunning for. It may not be an automatic disqualifier, but that type of stuff will affect the applicant's perception. If you were evaluating two candidates, would you hire the one with a clean record or the one who assaulted a police officer?

 

[IrishBroker]

Disagree, especially at the types of jobs ND grads are gunning for. It may not be an automatic disqualifier, but that type of stuff will affect the applicant's perception. If you were evaluating two candidates, would you hire the one with a clean record or the one who assaulted a police officer?

Agreed.

And depending on the job you are applying for, they could absolutely get deep into your record with you.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Some PD"s don't have them yet. Cost issues. Just adding that.


And another poster brought up the fact that said cop has never been in trouble or brought up on charges and it's all hersay...?

This would be a cop to have the first. Might save a lot of money.

Here is some light reading for you :

UPDATE: Protest calls for firing of SBPD officer accused of excessive force

By James Fegan, Assignment Editor

Posted: Mar 31, 2014 8:03 AM EDT
Updated: Apr 14, 2014 12:41 PM EDT

Local pastors and activists gathered Monday morning to call for the firing of a South Bend Police officer Aaron Knepper recently accused of excessive force. The group "People Uniting for a Better Government" made the announcement at 10:00am outside South Bend Common Council chambers.

Last week, Thomas Stevens was seriously injured and hospitalized after being arrested by Knepper for battery to an officer and resisting arrest. Stevens has yet to be formally charged by the county prosecutor's office and his family complained about the force used by Knepper.

Mario Sims is the spokesperson for PUBG. He said, "The people of South Bend will no longer tolerate this type of conduct from anyone in law enforcement. We have no confidence in the current administration or the current Chief." The group is looking to gather a citizens review board, which Sims notes, many cities of the same size as South Bend have, like Iowa City, IA.

Sims noted what South Bend Police Chief Ron Teachman said last week. "He believed that the community should speak out with a moral voice. Well chief, we're doing that today," said Sims.

PUBG cites two other pending lawsuits opened against Knepper for incidents that took place in 2013 as evidence the officer has a history of excessive force. "As far as I'm concerned, he should have been fired after the first one!" said Sims. "This is intolerable. He shouldn't be a police officer." PUBG says their group will respond any incidents they believe is an example of corruption in any form.

The People Uniting for a Better Government is chaired by Apostle Willie Coates, and was founded in the recent months, according to Mario Sims. He says not only will they fight for the termination of Knepper, they will also be protesting in May for the release of the South Bend police tapes to the public.

Officer beat 'the heck' out of Tom Stevens during arrest, mom says | Public Safety | southbendtribune.com

Man injured in scuffle with South Bend cop released from police custody | News | southbendtribune.com

What happened on Sunnymede Avenue? | News | southbendtribune.com

From the Affidavit of Probable Cause :

Instead of staying back, DEVIN BUTLER began cursing at the officers and approaching them. Fearing further violence, Officers (including Pickard and Knepper) then attempted to physically detain DEVIN BUTLER. Instead of stopping, DEVIN BUTLER began to physically struggle with Officer Knepper. Specifically, DEVIN BUTLER pushed Officer Knepper off balance, picked him up over a curb and tackled Officer Knepper to the ground. A struggle then ensued on the ground. . . .

The first paper in the Affidavit was a filling for more time to determine if the prosecution would proceed.

Also, there were no witness statements taken at the time; there have been no witness statements supporting the police officers Affidavits, regarding the events; nor were statements taken, or were either of the women involved in the altercation interviewed, or placed in police custody.

I still say this is going to be an interesting case. I really want to hear from as many experts on this as possible, both law enforcement, members of the judiciary, and attorneys. I am really wondering if with Knepper's history, the way procedure was violated by police throughout the incident and aftermath, if the prosecutor feels they need to move forward to protect the SBPD, Knepper, and all involved.

 

[IrishBroker]

This would be a cop to have the first. Might save a lot of money.

Here is some light reading for you :





Officer beat 'the heck' out of Tom Stevens during arrest, mom says | Public Safety | southbendtribune.com

Man injured in scuffle with South Bend cop released from police custody | News | southbendtribune.com

What happened on Sunnymede Avenue? | News | southbendtribune.com

From the Affidavit of Probable Cause :



The first paper in the Affidavit was a filling for more time to determine if the prosecution would proceed.

Also, there were no witness statements taken at the time; there have been no witness statements supporting the police officers Affidavits, regarding the events; nor were statements taken, or were either of the women involved in the altercation interviewed, or placed in police custody.

I still say this is going to be an interesting case. I really want to hear from as many experts on this as possible, both law enforcement, members of the judiciary, and attorneys. I am really wondering if with Knepper's history, the way procedure was violated by police throughout the incident and aftermath, if the prosecutor feels they need to move forward to protect the SBPD, Knepper, and all involved.

So a known cocaine addict led cops on a chase through a residential area with his 76 year old mother in the car at 10:30pm...

And you're questioning the cops integrity?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So a known cocaine addict led cops on a chase through a residential area with his 76 year old mother in the car at 10:30pm...

And you're questioning the cops integrity?

Either than or his basic fucking functional intelligence.

And yours if you are saying you have to beat someone unconscious and into a medically induced coma to subdue them, especially when they are begging you, as are other bystanders, to stop before the lights go out.

Come on.

Talk about the issue.

His 76 year old mother clearly voiced it, she was in fear for her sons life, no matter what he did, no matter what authority the policeman has/had.

Just on the fact that he scares people this same way, should preclude him from patrol. There are incidents previous to 2014 as well. The guy is way to scary for a "Peace Officer.'

Postscript : The part about 'chasing a known cocaine addict' makes me feel uncomfortable, because the way you state it, seems to have the intent of being prejudicial. As in all I can see is SBPD has a list of license plates that its officers check; "Oh, Papa-Mary-Oscar. One, fiver, niner is a Coke addict, lets roll!"

 

[Henges24]

Remember when Mike Floyd went off on a drunken Twitter rampage talking about the SB police? Guess he had a point didn't he?

 

[IrishBroker]

Either than or his basic fucking functional intelligence.

And yours if you are saying you have to beat someone unconscious and into a medically induced coma to subdue them, especially when they are begging you, as are other bystanders, to stop before the lights go out.

Come on.

Talk about the issue.

His 76 year old mother clearly voiced it, she was in fear for her sons life, no matter what he did, no matter what authority the policeman has/had.

Just on the fact that he scares people this same way, should preclude him from patrol. There are incidents previous to 2014 as well. The guy is way to scary for a "Peace Officer.'

Ahhhh...His mom, a very unbiased source, was in fear for her son's life. Shocker. I don't give her testimony one bit of credibility. She's 76, it's 10:30 at night, and it's her son that lives with her. Nope.


And should he be off the force? I don't know, don't know him. How long has he been a cop? Are these 3 or 4 incidents spanning over a 15 yr career? Also, nobody condones police brutality, but to be honest, the amount of crap that gets called "brutality" these days has watered down the term to say the least. So I'm always weary of that label.

Yeah, putting the guy in a coma could be considered excessive...but what if the guy took a swing at the officer?

I hope that if said officer is guilty, he gets prosecuted to the same extent they would prosecute myself. I think there are absolutely cops that abuse their power. And that's a shame.

But I'm not going to just dismiss his entire story, call it a lie and a total fabrication, about what happened with Butler. Doesn't mean it happened 100% of how the cops say it did, but I believe it's somewhere in the middle.

 

[Irishcop]

This would be a cop to have the first. Might save a lot of money.

Here is some light reading for you :





Officer beat 'the heck' out of Tom Stevens during arrest, mom says | Public Safety | southbendtribune.com

Man injured in scuffle with South Bend cop released from police custody | News | southbendtribune.com

What happened on Sunnymede Avenue? | News | southbendtribune.com

From the Affidavit of Probable Cause :



The first paper in the Affidavit was a filling for more time to determine if the prosecution would proceed.

Also, there were no witness statements taken at the time; there have been no witness statements supporting the police officers Affidavits, regarding the events; nor were statements taken, or were either of the women involved in the altercation interviewed, or placed in police custody.

I still say this is going to be an interesting case. I really want to hear from as many experts on this as possible, both law enforcement, members of the judiciary, and attorneys. I am really wondering if with Knepper's history, the way procedure was violated by police throughout the incident and aftermath, if the prosecutor feels they need to move forward to protect the SBPD, Knepper, and all involved.

I can tell you that a police officers previous record and IA files absolutely get brought up in court. I have a very good friend, he and I went through the Atalanta Police Academy together. Upon graduation we both were sent to very, very high crime areas. Well over the years my buddy Nick was involved in numorous phsycial altercations with suspects/subjects, not uncommon in the areas we worked in. He built up a pretty thick IA file. Well about two years ago Nick was brought up on Civil Rights violation for and arrest of a car thief, that ran after Nick pulled him over, and later fought Nick for about ten minutes prior to arrest. Well the state ,which were the ones to prosecute Nick, brought up all the time he was complained on for use of force. His IA file was totally used against him in court and as a result he is now serving 5 years in the Georgia State prison system.

 

[BGIF]

Remember when Mike Floyd went off on a drunken Twitter rampage talking about the SB police? Guess he had a point didn't he?

Yup. Floyd proved one should not tweet when drunk.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

I can tell you that a police officers previous record and IA files absolutely get brought up in court. I have a very good friend, he and I went through the Atalanta Police Academy together. Upon graduation we both were sent to very, very high crime areas. Well over the years my buddy Nick was involved in numorous phsycial altercations with suspects/subjects, not uncommon in the areas we worked in. He built up a pretty thick IA file. Well about two years ago Nick was brought up on Civil Rights violation for and arrest of a car thief, that ran after Nick pulled him over, and later fought Nick for about ten minutes prior to arrest. Well the state ,which were the ones to prosecute Nick, brought up all the time he was complained on for use of force. His IA file was totally used against him in court and as a result he is now serving 5 years in the Georgia State prison system.

I know another police officer in Tennessee that had a similar experience. Decent cops go to prison too. I have seen it first hand. IA reports go along way in prosecution of police officers.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How? Are you the president of the federal Human Resources Department?

Yes. And all things equal, that person with the misdemeanor never gets a chance to explain his/her side because there are other applicants with clean records.

At the jobs a ND grad should be going for - yes they will (IMO). We're not talking Enterprise (I hope).

They can't catch me.

My point is IFF the 'first hand account' is accurate, he shouldn't be pleaing at all because he shouldn't have been charged. Getting charged for a crime you didn't do isn't all of a sudden 'OK' because a misdemeanor is no biggie (although I think it is).

You realize it is automatic dismissal for any ND student charged with a felony, don't you?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

To be fair, he doesn't. The prosecutor gets the police report, weighs the evidence, and decides to file. So that's the check-and-balance, but it's hard for a prosecutor to not take a police a report at face value unless there is irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

And as many have said, it is interesting that there were no witness statements taken during or just after the altercation. Nor were there any taken over the weekend, from what I understand.

Those smarter than I am thinks that gives the prosecutor justification for charging Devin with a felony, and little wiggle room for not.