2016 Spring Practice Thread

[longliveautrydenson]

1. Neither of our ILBs... probably the most think-heavy position on defense... have any starting experience, unless you consider Morgan's disastrous freshman campaign.

2. I'm not really sure what to say about the DL as you replace two veterans and a captain... maybe it's deeper, it doesn't look to be more talented or have more starting experience. It is good to have Jones back though.

3. We do get more bodies at defensive back and more ability to play nickel and dime. Great. I don't know how anyone can conclude that Tranquill/Sebastian is a superior situation to Shumate. And I don't see how a first year starter is going to be "shutdown" relative to a guy who is about to get drafted.

I really do hope that things are going to be better, and like kmoose said you don't know what you've got until they're playing. But there is very little evidence to suggest that this defense will be better than last year's everything else being equal. I think there has to be scheme change for that to happen.

1. Morgan did some good things his Freshmen year, he was named a freshman All American. He was also trying to be the starting QB of a defense that our veterans have struggled to comprehend. Not really sure why pessimism about Morgan is so in vogue on this board. He's a former 5*, his freaky athleticism is obvious, he's gotten rave reviews from BK, Irish Illustrated, Bryan Driskell and even Mike "The Sky is Falling" Frank. I think the LB corps. ends up improving overall because we were playing 11 versus 10 some games last year with Schmidt out there. I'll take Onwalu (SR.)-Morgan-Coney/Martini over Onwalu (JR.)-Schmidt-Smith.

2. I just don't see a huge drop off coming at D-line if Jones comes back healthy. Tillery was basically a non-factor last year. If he doesn't pan out we can go big with Rochelle-Jones-Cage-J Hayes, with maybe Daelin or Trumbetti coming in on passing situations. That lineup would be a handful for any O-line.

3. I didn't see enough from Shumate last year to conclude that his loss creates a significant void. He was good in run support but pretty hum-ho in coverage. Tranquill is similarly a beast in run support and not adept in coverage. As far as Keivarae goes, he made some big plays, but he wasn't that great of a CB. Go look at QBs' completion percentage when he was targeted, it wasn't impressive. If he's a high draft pick, it's because his measurables are impressive and not because of the tape. Crawford will be better than KR next year, he's a true corner unlike KR who may end up at safety in the NFL.

 

[woolybug25]

Lolz. Nobody was worried about the defense until this Sharpley quote.

Frankly, I'm not worried at all. Jaylon was great, but our other LB's stunk up the joint. We are pretty much equal just by subtracting Schmidt. I think we are deeper, more experienced and more balanced at the position this season.

It's spring, fellas. All of these guys will have even more experience by fall. I am not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because Evan flippin' Sharpley said they look bad. That's not what anyone else has been saying and it certainly hasn't looked that way in the short clips of practice.

 

[IrishLax]

Lolz. Nobody was worried about the defense until this Sharpley quote.

Nah, I said the same thing months ago... mainly talking about recruiting gaps on defense more than anything else and how we messed up at a number of positions in the past few cycles (especially safety). It's just coming up again because of Sharpley throwing a wet blanket on things made it topical.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying there are legitimate reasons for pessimism and to buy what Sharpley's selling. There are also some reasons for optimism, but those have already been covered at length.

 

[Calabrese's People]

so 247 evan sharpley spoke to some sources and had nothing but $HIT NEWS regarding are team on defense

def looks worst than it has in many years didn't know it was possible

no one is able to get a pass rush on d line

rochell has been the only stud on the line and even he has no pass rush

morgan still doesn't have the understanding of playbook

grace should have started over joe but joe was the "face of the ND football"

and stanley could go #1 to titans as their staff is close w/ HH

Just my two cents:
*At this stage i'm not surpised it looks worse than last year. We are breaking in a lot of new starters and guys into new positions. A lot of these guys have ingame experience already, so when they make the adjustment to their new responsibilities I think they will be fine.

*we have no true edge rushers. Lets not kid ourselves. Rochell, Jarron, Sheldon & JHayes is a lump of a D-Line. They wont get to the QB but they can blow open some significant holes for the next level guys to get into. The key difference is this year we might have the athletes in the right spots to get there (expecially if Tranquill can step forward and cover for Morgan in the middle.)
We have made a real effort to get those long, explosive athletes in the past couple of draft classes, but nothing happens overnight. It was a position we struggled to recruit for a while there). Its up to BVG to make lemonade now..

*To say that Morgan has no understanding of the playbook seems a dramatic over-reach. Maybe he struggled a few times? Maybe they were trying some new alignments? Maybe they were trying some of the more exotic variations of existing alignments? I would say at this point that the consensus is that he has a strong enough grasp of the playbook to be the man in the middle.

*Joe started because of marketing ?? I'm sure there is an element of truth to that, but the way that is phrased makes it appear that Joe was significantly worse but politics kept Grace off the field. Seems like a salty personal opinion (maybe from a friend of Graces) rather than behind the scenes revelation.

* Seems to me that the Titans are sizing up Stanley, and are probably very happy with what they see, to target for a trade-down selection. They could leverage their spot into Picks+RS, so picking him outright at number 1 seems like pretty poor management, especially if they are only moving down a couple of picks (and there are QB-desperate teams right there, as well as the Cowboys who wont take an OT any time soon).
Again it seems like he has heard a simple scrap of goss and decided to package it into a soundbite/ newworthy item.

Evan is drawing a very long bow, in my opinion.

 

[IrishLax]

1. Morgan did some good things his Freshmen year, he was named a freshman All American. He was also trying to be the starting QB of a defense that our veterans have struggled to comprehend. Not really sure why pessimism about Morgan is so in vogue on this board. He's a former 5*, his freaky athleticism is obvious, he's gotten rave reviews from BK, Irish Illustrated, Bryan Driskell and even Mike "The Sky is Falling" Frank. I think the LB corps. ends up improving overall because we were playing 11 versus 10 some games last year with Schmidt out there. I'll take Onwalu (SR.)-Morgan-Coney/Martini over Onwalu (JR.)-Schmidt-Smith.

No, he didn't. He graded out horribly by people who do that sort of thing, and got supplanted by Martini (another true frosh who had gotten effectively zero practice reps at the position before Schmidt went down) because of his bad play. Him being named an "all-american" by a few ignorant people doesn't change that.

2. I just don't see a huge drop off coming at D-line if Jones comes back healthy. Tillery was basically a non-factor last year. If he doesn't pan out we can go big with Rochelle-Jones-Cage-J Hayes, with maybe Daelin or Trumbetti coming in on passing situations. That lineup would be a handful for any O-line.

That's effectively the same lineup as last year, minus a reliable veteran DE and subbing a great/versatile DT for one that is coming off injury and has never shown to be as good. So how is that better? I agree that the wrinkle that could lead to better production would be getting a more reliable lineup for passing downs that features maybe Rochelle slid inside + Jones, and Hayes (who is a mystery bag with potential) and Trumbetti on the outside.

3. I didn't see enough from Shumate last year to conclude that his loss creates a significant void. He was good in run support but pretty hum-ho in coverage. Tranquill is similarly a beast in run support and not adept in coverage. As far as Keivarae goes, he made some big plays, but he wasn't that great of a CB. Go look at QBs' completion percentage when he was targeted, it wasn't impressive. If he's a high draft pick, it's because his measurables are impressive and not because of the tape. Crawford will be better than KR next year, he's a true corner unlike KR who may end up at safety in the NFL.

I don't really know what this means. He was a multi-year starter, and is an NFL caliber player that made a number of VERY big, tone-setting plays. Extremely athletic and physical. We don't know if Drue Tranquill has any ability to stay healthy. Same for Sebastian. So it's clearly a drop off in reliability, production, and experience. I've always been VERY high on Tranquill but you simply can't count on him right now.

And that's an extremely questionable analysis of KVR. Yes, he wasn't as good in the off-man concepts as he was in Diaco's zone schemes, but it goes deeper than that. The problem is that what the scheme asked him to do at times was borderline impossible, not that he was playing bad or that he was a bad player. So if the scheme is the same and the coverage being asked of the CB is extremely difficult, why are we to think a 1st year player (or a vet that couldn't beat out KVR) is going to be better? In general, our pass defense last year was much better than most realize and the biggest issue was not play from either of our CBs.

I get why people want to be optimistic, but taking 4-5 NFL players off the defense and pretending like it's going to be decidedly better seems to be expecting a lot.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Lolz. Nobody was worried about the defense until this Sharpley quote.

Frankly, I'm not worried at all. Jaylon was great, but our other LB's stunk up the joint. We are pretty much equal just by subtracting Schmidt. I think we are deeper, more experienced and more balanced at the position this season.

It's spring, fellas. All of these guys will have even more experience by fall. I am not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because Evan flippin' Sharpley said they look bad. That's not what anyone else has been saying and it certainly hasn't looked that way in the short clips of practice.

Not only that, but Notre Dame doesn't play elite offenses this fall either.

#92 - Texas
#86 - Nevada
#73 - Michigan State
#36 - Duke
#118 - Syracuse
#57 - North Carolina State
#40 - Stanford
BYE
#68 - Miami
#48 - Navy
#108 - Army
#74 - Virginia Tech
#38 - Southern California

If the defense can't get a top 40 ranking against that, BVG should put his house up for sale.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Not only that, but Notre Dame doesn't play elite offenses this fall either.

#92 - Texas
#86 - Nevada
#73 - Michigan State
#36 - Duke
#118 - Syracuse
#57 - North Carolina State
#40 - Stanford
BYE
#68 - Miami
#48 - Navy
#108 - Army
#74 - Virginia Tech
#38 - Southern California

If the defense can't get a top 40 ranking against that, BVG should put his house up for sale.

Fair but one year can make all the difference in regards to an offense or defense clicking. So let's see what the opponent's offensive rank is at the end of this year and how we did against it.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

No, he didn't. He graded out horribly by people who do that sort of thing, and got supplanted by Martini (another true frosh who had gotten effectively zero practice reps at the position before Schmidt went down) because of his bad play. Him being named an "all-american" by a few ignorant people doesn't change that.



That's effectively the same lineup as last year, minus a reliable veteran DE and subbing a great/versatile DT for one that is coming off injury and has never shown to be as good. So how is that better? I agree that the wrinkle that could lead to better production would be getting a more reliable lineup for passing downs that features maybe Rochelle slid inside + Jones, and Hayes (who is a mystery bag with potential) and Trumbetti on the outside.



I don't really know what this means. He was a multi-year starter, and is an NFL caliber player that made a number of VERY big, tone-setting plays. Extremely athletic and physical. We don't know if Drue Tranquill has any ability to stay healthy. Same for Sebastian. So it's clearly a drop off in reliability, production, and experience. I've always been VERY high on Tranquill but you simply can't count on him right now.

And that's an extremely questionable analysis of KVR. Yes, he wasn't as good in the off-man concepts as he was in Diaco's zone schemes, but it goes deeper than that. The problem is that what the scheme asked him to do at times was borderline impossible, not that he was playing bad or that he was a bad player. So if the scheme is the same and the coverage being asked of the CB is extremely difficult, why are we to think a 1st year player (or a vet that couldn't beat out KVR) is going to be better? In general, our pass defense last year was much better than most realize and the biggest issue was not play from either of our CBs.

I get why people want to be optimistic, but taking 4-5 NFL players off the defense and pretending like it's going to be decidedly better seems to be expecting a lot.

Alright, not interested in a flame war. You've got your opinions.

 

[ulukinatme]

Cannot rep you again yet. Someone hit pkt for me.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

If BVG turns out to be a sh*t hire it could really set Kelly back..

We might still have the firepower to out score this schedule but I'm thinking we'd get exposed in the playoffs.

There's plenty of talent for BVG to be successful.. No excuses anymore.

 

[koonja]

The password rush will be better I MO. Trumpetti is a year older and Romeo wasn't that good. He had a lot of his sacks created for him. But the big thing will be thar Morgan will be blitzing instead of Schmidt. That instantly makes our pass rush better.

 

[ulukinatme]

Does Sharpley have any sort of track record of being particularly pessimistic or negative?

THE Evan Sharpley? ™

Well, he was part of the abortion of a QB crew that made up the abysmal 2007 season. If he was particularly negative, I'd understand.

 

[Crazy Balki]

If BVG turns out to be a sh*t hire it could really set Kelly back..

We might still have the firepower to out score this schedule but I'm thinking we'd get exposed in the playoffs.

There's plenty of talent for BVG to be successful.. No excuses anymore.

I think there has been talent there, but not a lot of it. Let's be frank here, our defensive depth the last 2 years has been pitiful. So combine that with our ridiculous amount of injuries, and that's a recipe for disaster.

Now, it's BVG's job to take his newly found depth and talent, and field a quality product. If he doesn't, his ass is in the furnace.

 

[DONTH8]

Not only that, but Notre Dame doesn't play elite offenses this fall either.

#92 - Texas
#86 - Nevada
#73 - Michigan State
#36 - Duke
#118 - Syracuse
#57 - North Carolina State
#40 - Stanford
BYE
#68 - Miami
#48 - Navy
#108 - Army
#74 - Virginia Tech
#38 - Southern California

If the defense can't get a top 40 ranking against that, BVG should put his house up for sale.

Anyone else find it crazy that the best offense (from the previous year) that we're going to see is Duke? Who would have thought

 

[Blazers46]

Anyone else find it crazy that the best offense (from the previous year) that we're going to see is Duke? Who would have thought

Mind = Blown

 

[Henges24]

THE Evan Sharpley? ™

Well, he was part of the abortion of a QB crew that made up the abysmal 2007 season. If he was particularly negative, I'd understand.

Yes, but they are all very successful QBs now. DJ is the star quarterback for THE Chicago Blitz. Jimmy Clausen has had a steller NFL career. Sharpley is getting closer and closer to signing a deal with ESPN. And I'm not sure who #12 is, but I know it's not Darrin Bragg, who is African American, (wikipedia told me #12 was him) but #12 is probably the most successful one of them all.

 

[military_irish]

Yes, but they are all very successful QBs now. DJ is the star quarterback for THE Chicago Blitz. Jimmy Clausen has had a steller NFL career. Sharpley is getting closer and closer to signing a deal with ESPN. And I'm not sure who #12 is, but I know it's not Darrin Bragg, who is African American, (wikipedia told me #12 was him) but #12 is probably the most successful one of them all.

12 is Zach Frazer. Only at Notre Dame for one year, transferred to UConn where he came back and beat Notre Dame at Notre Dame in double OT. So I'd say he was just as successful at Notre Dame as the other three in the photo.

 

[BGIF]

12 is Zach Frazer. Only at Notre Dame for one year, transferred to UConn where he came back and beat Notre Dame in double OT.

Correct. It's either a Fall '06 or pre Spring Ball '07 photo. He transferred after being ranked 4th that Spring.

He went on to become the starting QB for the Triangle Razorbacks and won the Danish League Champioship.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yes, but they are all very successful QBs now. DJ is the star quarterback for THE Chicago Blitz. Jimmy Clausen has had a steller NFL career. Sharpley is getting closer and closer to signing a deal with ESPN. And I'm not sure who #12 is, but I know it's not Darrin Bragg, who is African American, (wikipedia told me #12 was him) but #12 is probably the most successful one of them all.

12 is Zach Frazer. Only at Notre Dame for one year, transferred to UConn where he came back and beat Notre Dame at Notre Dame in double OT. So I'd say he was just as successful at Notre Dame as the other three in the photo.

Correct. It's either a Fall '06 or pre Spring Ball '07 photo. He transferred after being ranked 4th that Spring.

He went on to become the starting QB for the Triangle Razorbacks and won the Danish League Champioship.

Jimmy probably made more money than the rest after college, not that it says much, but Frazier was likely the most successful at the college level oddly enough. He was part of Conneticut's 2 decent seasons in '09 and '10, getting to the Fiesta bowl where Oklahoma stomped them. He also had that upset win against us that military_irish mentioned. At one point in 2007 Charlie ended up starting 3 of those 4 guys and Frazier was the one that didn't play. Doesn't really matter though. At least 3 of those 4 QBs were pretty talented, but none were ready by the start of the season. Part of the problem was a weak offensive line (Due to a lack of recruiting by Ty that caught up with us), but the QBs weren't ready either.

Oddly enough, Demetrius Jones ended up transferring to Cincinnati after he won the starting QB job at the beginning of the season (and was benched in that first game) to play for...Brian Kelly. He couldn't beat out Tony Pike though, so he played at MLB, mostly as a backup if I recall. After Kelly left he transferred to Central State. Jones and Frazier both play Arena League it looks like, and for now Clausen is with the Ravens but I doubt he will be there after Preseason.

 

[ScooterIrish]

Anyone else find it crazy that the best offense (from the previous year) that we're going to see is Duke? Who would have thought

Well I hate to think what the Duke offense will do to us considering what the Stanford offense did on the field last year.

But really, I'm surprised people think our CBs will be better. K Russell, IMO, won us a couple games with his play (Temple and USC with his game changing INT).

 

[woolybug25]

Well I hate to think what the Duke offense will do to us considering what the Stanford offense did on the field last year.

But really, I'm surprised people think our CBs will be better. K Russell, IMO, won us a couple games with his play (Temple and USC with his game changing INT).

KRuss was markedly worse last season. Teams picked on him every game. I'm not sure how anyone watching last season could say that Luke wasn't playing better than him.

 

[ulukinatme]

KRuss was markedly worse last season. Teams picked on him every game. I'm not sure how anyone watching last season could say that Luke wasn't playing better than him.

I thought this too, but I also wonder how much of it is due to the fact Russell was constantly guarding the #1 receiver for teams. Thinking back to 2013 Bennett Jackson often had the #1 receiver in the teams we faced. When he struggled in a few games like against Rutgers they switched Bennett and Russell. We all swooned how good Russell had become, and he was very good by the end of 2013...I wonder how much of that perception was based on the fact he was covering the #2 guy most of the year and QBs dared not to test him. I guess we'll see how Luke does this season, maybe we'll be talking about Watkins or Coleman more.

 

[ScooterIrish]

KRuss was markedly worse last season. Teams picked on him every game. I'm not sure how anyone watching last season could say that Luke wasn't playing better than him.

I agree that Luke didn't get picked on as much, but I'm not sure how anybody can say our CB unit will be better than last year given there is virtually no experience there outside of Luke and Butler (bad).


Also, how much was Russell looking bad scheme and terrible safety play? I think our CB unit would have been better with Russell back.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Dumb question for the day: if Tranquil is going to be a SS but looks like a SAM linebacker; and Hayes is going to be WDE but looks like a WDE; why don't they lose a little weight, take the strain off their knees, and gain that speed/quickness?

 

[Irish Insanity]

Sheldon Day was statistically our best coverage guy last year.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Yeah I wasn't trying to shoot the messenger, I love Panda updates. Just wanted to point out how full of s*** this update sounded. I legit canceled my 247 subscription because Sharpley's football analysis was so god awful. He writes like a six year old and breaks down film like a four year old.

I understood that. It's Saul Goodman!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I don't mind the optimism, but do you REALLY think we will be better at LB? Come on man...

If you are talking about the top six, I do.

• No one compares to Jaylon, except in terms of leadership. I bet Morgan and Onwualu do better than Smith, each maybe as good as Schmidt. (Must I point out that I am speaking of leadership only?)
• No injured, hampered Joe Schmidt
• After Martini, it fell off a precipice last year; this year there are guys that can play, even after the first six.
• The freshman class is overall better than we have had in a while, remember DH is still listed as an OLB.
• The only linebacker that won't be faster than last year is the one that fills in for Jaylon; even Onwualu's forty and shuttles are better this year.
• Onwualu's experience is going to pay yet more dividends this year, as are his gains in size.
• I believe that the reason Grace didn't play more is because he was still recovering. He looked good at the end of the season. Probably because he needed time to recover. That said, I don't think we had the set of big physical linebackers that could play last year, compared to what we have this year.
• We cannot really discuss the linebacker position until summer camp, because we need Coney, Martini, and the rest of the freshmen to see the push that competition is going to bring.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

1. Neither of our ILBs... probably the most think-heavy position on defense... have any starting experience, unless you consider Morgan's disastrous freshman campaign.

2. I'm not really sure what to say about the DL as you replace two veterans and a captain... maybe it's deeper, it doesn't look to be more talented or have more starting experience. It is good to have Jones back though.

3. We do get more bodies at defensive back and more ability to play nickel and dime. Great. I don't know how anyone can conclude that Tranquill/Sebastian is a superior situation to Shumate. And I don't see how a first year starter is going to be "shutdown" relative to a guy who is about to get drafted.

I really do hope that things are going to be better, and like kmoose said you don't know what you've got until they're playing. But there is very little evidence to suggest that this defense will be better than last year's everything else being equal. I think there has to be scheme change for that to happen.

A) Don't forget the Bob Crable effect. I know you are a young whippersnapper, barely wet behind the ears, but some of the best linebackers come heralded, plummet on the depth charts to start, then come out of nowhere to be dominant players. It just happens too often at linebacker.

B) Remember, it has come out just recently that KRussel had a fracture in his leg, all season and played. Plus he had that year out of competition. I think he has superior if not elite skills, but was very hampered all season. And it really cost the defense.

C) Any conversation about the back end has to start and stop with the free safety. Max's play was the worst thing that could happen to the defense last year. And who else could step in for him? Nobody! This year either Max performs with consistency at a higher level, or a consistent freshman plays instead. This is almost like an insurance policy that the whole back end tightens up.

D) I am not sure that Crawford doesn't eclipse Russell as a corner, long term. From what I have heard, I am not sure he isn't going to be an upgrade over Russell last season (see B above,) out of the blocks.

E) Oh yeah -- commenting on the defensive line is kind of premature. The only guy out of the top six that is starting at the same position as last year, (in other words, everyone else has moved, been out with an injury, or at best shared reps last year,) is Isaac Rochell.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

.

 

[PANDFAN]

contrary to evan's report, here is rivals update

contrary to evan's report, here is rivals update

“Nyles has been pretty solid at linebacker,” VanGorder said. “When I think of him, I think of most improved in the communicating areas. He does a good job of running our defense, he knows it well.”

“Light a fire under Max is not the goal, not the quest,” VanGorder said. “There are different ways of developing and getting things the way we’d like them to be. Devin’s an outstanding athlete, very natural in the game, so we’ve been anxious to kind of push him with more reps. I saw him in high school and he’s just so naturally instinctive. Usually those kind of guys end up being good learners. He’s real natural in the game, a great feel.

“Max is in his third year in the system, and I think he’s played really well this spring.”

“He feels much better about himself,” said VanGorder about Hayes. “The position change for him has definitely helped him gain a positive attitude … Jay Hayes has really established himself as a competitive guy. His energy and his commitment, it’s been a big step for him.”


“That would be Shaun Crawford,” replied second year Irish defensive backs coach and two-time consensus All-America Todd Lyght (1989-90) immediately when asked who his most improved player was this spring. “Because of his ability to rebound from his injury and play at the high level that he’s playing at right now … no doubt.”


“We thought he was going to be really good, but his game at corner and nickel — his arrow is way up right now,” said VanGorder of Crawford. “He changes everything at that nickel position. … He opens up the inventory some, a lot we can do on the field side, where our nickel aligns.”