2016 Spring Practice Thread

[zelezo vlk]

so 247 evan sharpley spoke to some sources and had nothing but $HIT NEWS regarding are team on defense

def looks worst than it has in many years didn't know it was possible

no one is able to get a pass rush on d line

rochell has been the only stud on the line and even he has no pass rush

morgan still doesn't have the understanding of playbook

grace should have started over joe but joe was the "face of the ND football"

and stanley could go #1 to titans as their staff is close w/ HH

Look I love Stanley just like we all do, but there's no way anybody's passing on Tunsil for Stanley unless they confuse Laremy with Nkemdiche.

 

[PANDFAN]

Look I love Stanley just like we all do, but there's no way anybody's passing on Tunsil for Stanley unless they confuse Laremy with Nkemdiche.

concerns w/ off the field stuff, they are also trying to trade down but if stuck in #1 supposedly this is what he was hearing

 

[zelezo vlk]

concerns w/ off the field stuff, they are also trying to trade down but if stuck in #1 supposedly this is what he was hearing

Then he's being played during liars' season. I buy the trade down, but not taking Stanley over Tunsil.

 

[PANDFAN]

Then he's being played during liars' season. I buy the trade down, but not taking Stanley over Tunsil.

he has NO vested interest in whether stanley goes 1 or 100....this was just coming from his sources on a recruiting website...not twitter etc

 

[ulukinatme]

so 247 evan sharpley spoke to some sources and had nothing but $HIT NEWS regarding are team on defense

def looks worst than it has in many years didn't know it was possible

no one is able to get a pass rush on d line

rochell has been the only stud on the line and even he has no pass rush

morgan still doesn't have the understanding of playbook

grace should have started over joe but joe was the "face of the ND football"

and stanley could go #1 to titans as their staff is close w/ HH

Hey, BVG....

I often wondered why Grace didn't get more reps last year at MLB if Nyles wans't ready. I mean, he started there ahead of Joe prior to the injury, and he certainly was able enough to perform on the field last season. He did an awesome job against Navy when they put him in.

 

[mtnd15]

so 247 evan sharpley spoke to some sources and had nothing but $HIT NEWS regarding are team on defense

def looks worst than it has in many years didn't know it was possible

no one is able to get a pass rush on d line

rochell has been the only stud on the line and even he has no pass rush

morgan still doesn't have the understanding of playbook

grace should have started over joe but joe was the "face of the ND football"

and stanley could go #1 to titans as their staff is close w/ HH

I hate my life

 

[Crazy Balki]

From what Mike and the boys at ISD were talking about, I think "inconsistent" is appropriate for describing Tillery's camp so far. He hasn't been terrible, but he hasn't done much to spark much confidence that he'll be a force at 3T. He'll be good a few plays and then disappears. He needs to find a way to be consistently involved.

As for Tranquill, yes, last year is considered a medical redshirt year since he got hurt in the 3rd game of the season.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

so 247 evan sharpley spoke to some sources and had nothing but $HIT NEWS regarding are team on defense

def looks worst than it has in many years didn't know it was possible

no one is able to get a pass rush on d line

rochell has been the only stud on the line and even he has no pass rush

morgan still doesn't have the understanding of playbook

grace should have started over joe but joe was the "face of the ND football"

and stanley could go #1 to titans as their staff is close w/ HH

What the hell is this? Multiple sites lavished praise on Morgan after viewing a full practice last week. Rochelle was also complimented by numerous sites for improving his pass rushing skills and for looking like the best player on the team. Numerous sites also said they're cautiously optimistic about our D this year. And there's no way in hell Evan Sharpley has NFL sources, he just read a ProFootballTalk article from yesterday. This update is complete BS.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Does Sharpley have any sort of track record of being particularly pessimistic or negative?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What the hell is this? Multiple sites lavished praise on Morgan after viewing a full practice last week. Rochelle was also complimented by numerous sites for improving his pass rushing skills and for looking like the best player on the team. Numerous sites also said they're cautiously optimistic about our D this year. And there's no way in hell Evan Sharpley has NFL sources, he just read a ProFootballTalk article from yesterday. This update is complete BS.

Panda is all good. He is reporting what he heard.

I wonder why if things are as bad as Sharply reported, why we haven't heard an echo of it from anyone else? Not even a bit. And that includes people I know that have been at practices.

The only thing I got is linebacker is incredibly thin, and the defensive backs are spending more time learning than hitting (11 on 11.).

Another point is the offense is way ahead of the defense, but it may be way ahead of any defense we face this year. When double checking the quote I heard is. "I mean way ahead!"

So, I guess it is all in the eyes of the beholder.

Finally, if they are restructuring the defense to take into account some of the things they learned last year, they are probably starting at a very fundamental level, on purpose.

It is clear the offense hasn't missed a beat since last season, except on the right side of the offensive line. And, voila! People have slung the same crap about Bars and Biven!

 

[Crazy Balki]

so 247 evan sharpley spoke to some sources and had nothing but $HIT NEWS regarding are team on defense

def looks worst than it has in many years didn't know it was possible

no one is able to get a pass rush on d line

rochell has been the only stud on the line and even he has no pass rush

morgan still doesn't have the understanding of playbook

grace should have started over joe but joe was the "face of the ND football"

and stanley could go #1 to titans as their staff is close w/ HH

No offense to Evan, but none of that is consistent with any other reports. If the defense was truly that bad, Mike and the boys from ISD would be all over it like flies on a hunk of sh*t and that message board would be burning to the ground at this point. But nope. Granted it hasn't been all sunshine and lucky charms on the defensive side of the ball this spring, but none of these claims seem at all consistent with what has been divulged so far. Morgan has looked fantastic and in charge, and the reports are that the defense has look BETTER than they have ever looked under BVG, not worse. He's not wrong when it comes to the line's ability to rush the passer. Rochell seems like the only guy at this time that has brought it at a high level up front. That's fine for now. Tillery is at a new spot, Jarron is still recouping from his injury and Trumbetti is transition to life as a starter. So sorry, but Evan is in the minority here when it comes to recent reports from camp.

As for the Schmidt/Grace dispute, I have a hard time believing that either. Grace, while a nice guy, is coming off a catastrophic injury that was compounded with complications from surgery. It's easy to assume that he wasn't going to be at the same level athletically as he was before. He may never reach that level again. He didn't really spark much confidence in the Fiesta Bowl when he lined up at WILL. He wasn't terrible, but didn't do anything to indicate he was truly the answer at MLB.

 

[pkt77242]

so 247 evan sharpley spoke to some sources and had nothing but $HIT NEWS regarding are team on defense

def looks worst than it has in many years didn't know it was possible

no one is able to get a pass rush on d line

rochell has been the only stud on the line and even he has no pass rush

morgan still doesn't have the understanding of playbook

grace should have started over joe but joe was the "face of the ND football"

and stanley could go #1 to titans as their staff is close w/ HH

 

[koonja]

Sure would be nice to have Kolin Hill right now. Damn kid.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Panda is all good. He is reporting what he heard.

I wonder why if things are as bad as Sharply reported, why we haven't heard an echo of it from anyone else? Not even a bit. And that includes people I know that have been at practices.

The only thing I got is linebacker is incredibly thin, and the defensive backs are spending more time learning than hitting (11 on 11.).

Another point is the offense is way ahead of the defense, but it may be way ahead of any defense we face this year. When double checking the quote I heard is. "I mean way ahead!"

So, I guess it is all in the eyes of the beholder.

Finally, if they are restructuring the defense to take into account some of the things they learned last year, they are probably starting at a very fundamental level, on purpose.

It is clear the offense hasn't missed a beat since last season, except on the right side of the offensive line. And, voila! People have slung the same crap about Bars and Biven!

From what I've been hearing, and granted this is based on limited exposure, but it seems like the defense has been more competitive with the offense in camp than we've seen since BVG took the helm (probably has more to do with that year being when our offenses began to hit their stride). There are still pressing concerns, namely WDE (minus Jay Hayes), LB depth and safety, but there have been equally positive reports out there as well, namely NT, MIKE, CB, Nickel and SDE.

 

[koonja]

So Sharpley hearing that the defense is crap, and ISD hearing that the right side of the OL is crap.

Happy to have my expectations set now rather than in fall.

2017 will be our year. And probably a huge recruiting year too.

 

[pkt77242]

 

[GrangerIrish24]

The one theme I continue to hear is the overall team speed is the best its been in years. Speed on a field can cover a multitude of errors.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

Panda is all good. He is reporting what he heard.

I wonder why if things are as bad as Sharply reported, why we haven't heard an echo of it from anyone else? Not even a bit. And that includes people I know that have been at practices.

The only thing I got is linebacker is incredibly thin, and the defensive backs are spending more time learning than hitting (11 on 11.).

Another point is the offense is way ahead of the defense, but it may be way ahead of any defense we face this year. When double checking the quote I heard is. "I mean way ahead!"

So, I guess it is all in the eyes of the beholder.

Finally, if they are restructuring the defense to take into account some of the things they learned last year, they are probably starting at a very fundamental level, on purpose.

It is clear the offense hasn't missed a beat since last season, except on the right side of the offensive line. And, voila! People have slung the same crap about Bars and Biven!

Yeah I wasn't trying to shoot the messenger, I love Panda updates. Just wanted to point out how full of s*** this update sounded. I legit canceled my 247 subscription because Sharpley's football analysis was so god awful. He writes like a six year old and breaks down film like a four year old.

 

[NDBoiler]

That's just a typical Wednesday afternoon for you.

 

[zelezo vlk]

he has NO vested interest in whether stanley goes 1 or 100....this was just coming from his sources on a recruiting website...not twitter etc

I mean no offense to you and I really appreciate all of the updates and work you put in for us, but Sharpley is wrong here. Assuming he's not lying, because it'd be silly just to lie about Stanley right now, two things happened:

1. Evan is the only guy who has been told that the Titans like Stanley over Tunsil, a superior prospect with low bust potential.

or

2. Somebody sold Sharpley a pack of lies and he doesn't realize that you're not supposed to believe any of the rumors leaking out of front offices at this time.

I'd say 2 is much more likely.

As for everything else you shared, I didn't comment because I can definitely believe any of it. Thanks again, man.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Yeah, nothing on you PANDA. You're just passing on what he posted. I just have a hard time buying into his sources when the sources of several other credible ND analysts say otherwise.

 

[IrishLax]

The bigger question to ask is why would the defense be better? From a talent standpoint...
-Lost a 2nd day versatile DL with no equivalent behind him, and lost a 3rd day DL with questionable replacement.
-Lost a top 10 pick at LB (obviously, had he not gotten hurt), and lost a guy that was bad but allegedly was so integral to how the defense played as a unit that he had to play. Replacements for both completely unproven.
-Lost a 3rd day safety and multi-year starter, with no replacement behind him that has any history of staying healthy. Other safety position is just bad... either going with a mistake prone player, or a true frosh. Lost a 2nd/3rd day CB, and have an unproven replacement for him... and the coverage concepts we play tend to be very demanding for corners.

So at every position on the defense we've apparently gotten worse. Unless the new starters are absolute revelations... or someone like Daelin Hayes adds a completely different aspect to the defense, or the scheme changes... there is no evidence that they should be good or even "better."

 

[kmoose]

The bigger question to ask is why would the defense be better? From a talent standpoint...
-Lost a 2nd day versatile DL with no equivalent behind him, and lost a 3rd day DL with questionable replacement.
-Lost a top 10 pick at LB (obviously, had he not gotten hurt), and lost a guy that was bad but allegedly was so integral to how the defense played as a unit that he had to play. Replacements for both completely unproven.
-Lost a 3rd day safety and multi-year starter, with no replacement behind him that has any history of staying healthy. Other safety position is just bad... either going with a mistake prone player, or a true frosh. Lost a 2nd/3rd day CB, and have an unproven replacement for him... and the coverage concepts we play tend to be very demanding for corners.

So at every position on the defense we've apparently gotten worse. Unless the new starters are absolute revelations... or someone like Daelin Hayes adds a completely different aspect to the defense, or the scheme changes... there is no evidence that they should be good or even "better."

I'm not saying that the defense should be better, but..............

What happened when we lost TJ Jones? or when Folston went down? or when Golson transferred? Guys like Will Fuller, CJ Prosise, Malik Zaire and DeShone Kizer don't always come along, but there are times when people do step in/up and play better than the guy who was there before. We haven't seen it much on the Defensive side of the ball, though, I agree.

 

[Luckylucci]

First, to Evan's post. As a whole, Irish247 has been laughable at times with their sources recently. Going all the way back to the end of last recruiting cycle. I'm not sure who they are talking to but they should probably be ditched as a source.

Also, not sure if they all use the same sources but this was a fairly big 180 from what they've been posting on recently. Was it for click bait among users? Nothing would surprise me with them these days.

I think they've been pressing Evan to provide the type of X and O's work that ISD and Driskell at BGI do so well. I haven't been overly impressed with it and maybe this is what comes of it. Reaching for hits.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

The bigger question to ask is why would the defense be better? From a talent standpoint...
-Lost a 2nd day versatile DL with no equivalent behind him, and lost a 3rd day DL with questionable replacement.
-Lost a top 10 pick at LB (obviously, had he not gotten hurt), and lost a guy that was bad but allegedly was so integral to how the defense played as a unit that he had to play. Replacements for both completely unproven.
-Lost a 3rd day safety and multi-year starter, with no replacement behind him that has any history of staying healthy. Other safety position is just bad... either going with a mistake prone player, or a true frosh. Lost a 2nd/3rd day CB, and have an unproven replacement for him... and the coverage concepts we play tend to be very demanding for corners.

So at every position on the defense we've apparently gotten worse. Unless the new starters are absolute revelations... or someone like Daelin Hayes adds a completely different aspect to the defense, or the scheme changes... there is no evidence that they should be good or even "better."

1. We've got a number of guys that have been in the system 2-3 years now. I'm not much of a fan of BVG, but Onwalu, Tranquill, Morgan, Redfield, Martini, Luke, Watkins, Jones, Trumbetti, J Hayes, and Bonner all have to have a solid grasp of the D at this point, it's not just Schmidt by himself trying to get everyone else aligned.

2. This year's LB group will be better than last year's. Jaylon Smith may be the greatest defensive specimen we'll ever see, but he was starting beside Joe Schmidt and a guy that had only played LB for two years. I expect Onwalu to be much improved, Morgan to make plays that Schmidt never could, and Martini and Coney to form a solid 1-2 punch at will.

3. Cornerback should be more than solid. Luke is an unheralded but solid corner, and Russell is being replaced by a true shut down corner in Crawford. Watkins should be back by fall, and Coleman/White are quality 4-5 guys. Not to mention the influx of freshmen on the way.

4. Safety is a big concern, but safety kind've sucked last year. If Tranquill is healthy I trust him to be as good or better than Shumate. I don't see Redfield being worse than last year, and maybe Studstill steps up. All in all at worse I would think this is a wash from last year.

5. The D-line will be less reliant on the top end of our depth chart. Jones/Cage will be better than Tillery/Cage at NT. Rochelle sounds like he's getting even better and has a solid backup in Bonner. I like a Trumbetti/Hayes combo more than Okwara. Romeo was solid last year, but his sack total was artificially inflated in some ways, he wasn't beating people with real pass rush moves. The massive downgrade is at 3T. Someone needs to light a fire under Tillery because we need him to make plays this year. Still I think what we lose in Day will be made up for with improvements from other positions.

So all things considered, yeah we lost some future NFL picks, but we're deeper and more experienced than last year. I'm not buying the pessimism right now.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

1. We've got a number of guys that have been in the system 2-3 years now. I'm not much of a fan of BVG, but Onwalu, Tranquill, Morgan, Redfield, Martini, Luke, Watkins, Jones, Trumbetti, J Hayes, and Bonner all have to have a solid grasp of the D at this point, it's not just Schmidt by himself trying to get everyone else aligned.

2. This year's LB group will be better than last year's. Jaylon Smith may be the greatest defensive specimen we'll ever see, but he was starting beside Joe Schmidt and a guy that had only played LB for two years. I expect Onwalu to be much improved, Morgan to make plays that Schmidt never could, and Martini and Coney to form a solid 1-2 punch at will.

3. Cornerback should be more than solid. Luke is an unheralded but solid corner, and Russell is being replaced by a true shut down corner in Crawford. Watkins should be back by fall, and Coleman/White are quality 4-5 guys. Not to mention the influx of freshmen on the way.

4. Safety is a big concern, but safety kind've sucked last year. If Tranquill is healthy I trust him to be as good or better than Shumate. I don't see Redfield being worse than last year, and maybe Studstill steps up. All in all at worse I would think this is a wash from last year.

5. The D-line will be less reliant on the top end of our depth chart. Jones/Cage will be better than Tillery/Cage at NT. Rochelle sounds like he's getting even better and has a solid backup in Bonner. I like a Trumbetti/Hayes combo more than Okwara. Romeo was solid last year, but his sack total was artificially inflated in some ways, he wasn't beating people with real pass rush moves. The massive downgrade is at 3T. Someone needs to light a fire under Tillery because we need him to make plays this year. Still I think what we lose in Day will be made up for with improvements from other positions.

So all things considered, yeah we lost some future NFL picks, but we're deeper and more experienced than last year. I'm not buying the pessimism right now.

I don't mind the optimism, but do you REALLY think we will be better at LB? Come on man...

 

[IrishLax]

So all things considered, yeah we lost some future NFL picks, but we're deeper and more experienced than last year. I'm not buying the pessimism right now.

1. Neither of our ILBs... probably the most think-heavy position on defense... have any starting experience, unless you consider Morgan's disastrous freshman campaign.

2. I'm not really sure what to say about the DL as you replace two veterans and a captain... maybe it's deeper, it doesn't look to be more talented or have more starting experience. It is good to have Jones back though.

3. We do get more bodies at defensive back and more ability to play nickel and dime. Great. I don't know how anyone can conclude that Tranquill/Sebastian is a superior situation to Shumate. And I don't see how a first year starter is going to be "shutdown" relative to a guy who is about to get drafted.

I really do hope that things are going to be better, and like kmoose said you don't know what you've got until they're playing. But there is very little evidence to suggest that this defense will be better than last year's everything else being equal. I think there has to be scheme change for that to happen.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I hope that Tillery is just one of those "gamers" that takes his play up a notch in games.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

I agree with Lax for the most part.

The dline is not as good, Day and Romeo's replacements are not as good. And Days absence will be huge. Our lb's are not better. Jaylons hole is mirror a crater, and how he covered for so many other errors

CB will most likely be better, but safety??

But dline and lbs Ihave a hard time seeing them be better.

The issue with bvg is the biggest. He is hurting us. At least in my opinion.

I hope we are better on d, I just don't believe we will be. We will have to score a ton to win. The bigger issue like last year, we just couldn't stop any good team.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

I agree with Lax for the most part.

The dline is not as good, Day and Romeo's replacements are not as good. And Days absence will be huge. Our lb's are not better. Jaylons hole is mirror a crater, and how he covered for so many other errors

CB will most likely be better, but safety??

But dline and lbs Ihave a hard time seeing them be better.

The issue with bvg is the biggest. He is hurting us. At least in my opinion.

I hope we are better on d, I just don't believe we will be. We will have to score a ton to win. The bigger issue like last year, we just couldn't stop any good team.

Sadly I agree. My only hope really is the Dline.

If Jarron and Jerry can play to their potential, that opens up so much for the rest of the defense, especially with Issac anchoring one side.