Brian Kelly to LSU, per report

[stlnd01]

That was Quinn's sister i think btw

Oh, right, Quinn's sister, Hawk's girlfriend (now wife). I just like to think 15 years later she's still wearing it to Thanksgiving and stuff.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Yes, she wore that jersey to the Fiesta Bowl when Hawk’s Buckeyes faced off against Brady Quinn-led ND. I believe they were engaged at the time & I believe she was easy on the eyes as she got a fair amount of camera time.

AJ Hawk seems like a pretty cool cat. I’ve listed to him talk CFB on ESPNU radio and on MacAfee’s show.

Yeah he's awesome. They've interviewed Brady Quinn on that show once or twice and it was a great listen. Hawk likes to stir the pot and asks some hilarious questions haha. I really enjoy the Pat McAfee Show

 

[Huntr]

I agree with Kelly. The LSU dining facilities are miles ahead.

 

[DCDomer]

I agree with Kelly. The LSU dining facilities are miles ahead.

The LSU players wouldn't be caught dead in the student dining hall. They didn't come to play school.

 

[irishnd31]

DCDomer- "The LSU players wouldn't be caught dead in the student dining hall. They didn't come to play school."



Cardale Jones be like..........

 

[Rasputin]

I agree with Kelly. The LSU dining facilities are miles ahead.

The raccoon didn't fall through the ceiling, it leapt out of the frying pan. Thems good eats down the Bayou way.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I have a hard time with the argument that BK didn't love Notre Dame the way fans do. He's an Irish Catholic from New England. I think it's pretty obvious through what he talked about when he first came that he and his family were Subway Domers.

With that said, sometimes as a coach you have to remove being a fan to succeed. That isn't me giving BK a pass, the way he left was bad, and how he handled landing in Baton Rogue was bad. I think he felt hurt by Notre Dame and the administration, and that can leave a sour taste.

Again, this isn't a defense of actions, but I don't think it's fair to say he was never as much of a fan. And sometimes to be successful as a coach, you have to remove yourself from the fandom and the attachment to get things done correctly.

You’ll have to take that up w/ Pete Sampson who has been covering the ND beat for the entire BK era. Do I agree w/ Pete? Yeah, I do. I think BK is a great politician & I said that when he was firmly entrenched as ND’s coach so it’s not some kind of backhand compliment. That attribute, IMO; will really pay dividends when he’s selling LSU along w/ NIL possibilities. He gets that.

I also understand why he finally left. He‘d been asking for some things for four years and while they’ve been approved, they were slow in coming. I don’t like the timing but that’s life. They most recent stuff is typical BK putting his foot in his mouth so I’m glad he doesn’t represent ND anymore. He brought ND from the depths of embarrassment under the Davie/Willingham/Weis era so I‘ll always appreciate what he did for the program.

But in the end, I’ll trust Pete‘s insight especially considering the he wasn’t beating around the bush when he said it and has never struck me as someone who has an axe to grind w/ BK as he’s quick to credit him where credit is due.

 

[IrishBoognish]

I thought Pete's take re: He'll never love ND as much as you do was perfect. It summed up a feeling I always had about him but never allowed myself to process.

And of course its true. Charlie did, but he's an alum and it's kind of different. (Like the old adage -converts are always the most pious)

Lou and MF are what it looks like when you're totally in love with the whole ND "thing". BK, while a more than competent CEO of the football program, never once showed that kind of "thing"... the appreciation for what makes ND tic. We all know it deep down.

I appreciate what BK did for the program. But theres a lot to take issue with and he never loved Our Lady like we do.

 

[NDdomer2]

I thought Pete's take re: He'll never love ND as much as you do was perfect. It summed up a feeling I always had about him but never allowed myself to process.

And of course its true. Charlie did, but he's an alum and it's kind of different. (Like the old adage -converts are always the most pious)

Lou and MF are what it looks like when you're totally in love with the whole ND "thing". BK, while a more than competent CEO of the football program, never once showed that kind of "thing"... the appreciation for what makes ND tic. We all know it deep down.

I appreciate what BK did for the program. But theres a lot to take issue with and he never loved Our Lady like we do.

Marcus freeman could be a better salesman than BK. We don't know shit about how real his love is. It seems genuine but he has some schtickiness to him as well.

I don't expect any non-alum or tenured staff to love ND as much as me so I'm not sure it's quite fair to have that as a criticism against BK.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Marcus freeman could be a better salesman than BK. We don't know shit about how real his love is. It seems genuine but he has some schtickiness to him as well.

I don't expect any non-alum or tenured staff to love ND as much as me so I'm not sure it's quite fair to have that as a criticism against BK.

ehhh... I hear what you're saying... But if we take off our hero complex a little... You don't think Lou could be seen as a little "schticky"?

I find MF 100 percent genuine, and apparently so do the recruits were getting. BK wasn't interested in going too much out of his way in that regard.

Listen... If MF is faking it? He's doing a great job at it.

I feel ya though. Not arguing.

 

[greyhammer90]

ehhh... I hear what you're saying... But if we take off our hero complex a little... You don't think Lou could be seen as a little "schticky"?

I find MF 100 percent genuine, and apparently so do the recruits were getting. BK wasn't interested in going too much out of his way in that regard.

Listen... If MF is faking it? He's doing a great job at it.

I feel ya though. Not arguing.

I've made this exact argument in the past. A lot of great coaches have a shtick. The question often is how well their shtick works with the school they are at. Lou's shtick was legendary. He basically conflated the iconography of Notre Dame football with the Christian faith in a way that was borderline blasphemous but deeply compelling as a motivational tool. Freeman's shtick thus far appears to be a less "southern Baptist" version of Dabo's shtick: Family.

I think it's a pretty good fit for ND and could be really powerful if he can get the ball rolling with some wins.

 

[GATTACA!]

I've made this exact argument in the past. A lot of great coaches have a shtick. The question often is how well their shtick works with the school they are at. Lou's shtick was legendary. He basically conflated the iconography of Notre Dame football with the Christian faith in a way that was borderline blasphemous but deeply compelling as a motivational tool. Freeman's shtick thus far appears to be a less "southern Baptist" version of Dabo's shtick: Family.

I think it's a pretty good fit for ND and could be really powerful if he can get the ball rolling with some wins.

We just need a couple more dollars to get this thing really popping off!

 

[greyhammer90]

We just need a couple more dollars to get this thing really popping off!

"Southern Baptist" in this case means "passing high school kids the collection plate"

 

[NorthDakota]

We just need a couple more dollars to get this thing really popping off!

Like the Vatican... if there is one thing ND has in addition to a beautiful HQ, it's money.

Watching ND go scorched earth would be the single most based thing any living Americans have ever seen....including watching the ChAir Force demolish the Iraqi military overnight.

 

[Old Man Mike]

"Who gives a Shtick?" Just win Baby. (That's the column that gets the grade.)

BK= Real Good at it. MF? To be determined. Hope high, but hope is ephemeral.

 

[GATTACA!]

"Southern Baptist" in this case means "passing high school kids the collection plate"

 

[Irish4life]

Marcus freeman could be a better salesman than BK. We don't know shit about how real his love is. It seems genuine but he has some schtickiness to him as well.

I don't expect any non-alum or tenured staff to love ND as much as me so I'm not sure it's quite fair to have that as a criticism against BK.

I think the gist of what Pete has said about Freeman vs BK, is that BK viewed ND and the things that make it special as weaknesses, and Freeman views them as strengths. Now, does Freeman love ND the way I, a fan does? Almost certainly not. But he's also not constantly using it as an excuse at every opportunity.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think the gist of what Pete has said about Freeman vs BK, is that BK viewed ND and the things that make it special as weaknesses, and Freeman views them as strengths. Now, does Freeman love ND the way I, a fan does? Almost certainly not. But he's also not constantly using it as an excuse at every opportunity.

We all know the different leadership styles that exist, but I personally view this as a dichotomy between someone who pulls and someone who inspires.

BK is the classic "pull" guy. He knows the path forward and is going to expect everyone to come with him. If you don't, you are left behind.

MFMF, at this point, seems he wants to inspire people to join him. His charisma will make people to want to follow him. To be clear, charisma isn't the only way to inspire, you can inspire through example or other means.

The best leaders can do both effectively. Leaders that are genuine and true to themselves, produce the best results because they seem authentic. I see Saban as a guy that does both pull and inspire, the trick is that he is authentic. There is nothing fake about him. Compare him to Urban. Urban was one of the best "pull" leaders in football. But it lacked staying power because he was a POS person and was unauthentic.

From all indications, MFMF is authentic. The evidence is there that he can inspire with the best of them. The question is whether he can inspire and "pull". If he can learn to do both, the sky is the limit for him and ND.

 

[GATTACA!]

unauthentic

I was going to set you straight on dshan’s behalf, then I looked it up. Guess unauthentic is a word too. Huh TIL.

 

[stlnd01]

I think the gist of what Pete has said about Freeman vs BK, is that BK viewed ND and the things that make it special as weaknesses, and Freeman views them as strengths. Now, does Freeman love ND the way I, a fan does? Almost certainly not. But he's also not constantly using it as an excuse at every opportunity.

Since this is the BK thread, I'm going to push back a little here. When, exactly, did he use the things that make Notre Dame special as "an excuse?" When he was Notre Dame's coach, anyway. I'd be curious for examples.

Yes, actions speak louder than words and BK's final action was to leave for a job that's less "special." Absolutely. But for the 11 years he was here the guy rarely if ever (publicly) complained about the things that made Notre Dame Notre Dame. He by and large embraced it and demonstrated how a program that requires more of its student-athletes than most can still be at the top of the sport. His talk about "shopping down a different aisle" in recruiting wasn't an excuse so much as a point of pride. He "graduated champions," played a national schedule, recruited basically everywhere (except Florida for a few years I suppose). He laid the groundwork for what we hope Freeman can build on, instead of relegating Notre Dame to a good academic school that also plays football, like Stanford and BC and Northwestern. You don't succeed at that by making excuses.

Now, perhaps that was insincere. I don't know (just like we don't know what Freeman REALLY thinks about everything either). But it was notably different from his predecessors, would would openly complain about who they couldn't get through admissions, about who who took majors where classes conflicted with practice schedules, about having to lift a finger to recruit. All that stuff.

I get we don't "like" Kelly around here anymore, but honestly his lack of excuse-making about Notre Dame being Notre Dame was always one of the things I respected most about the guy.

 

[NDdomer2]

The bottom line is 98% of anything you say about BK was true while he was at ND and almost no one was saying it then. It's only being discussed because he is gone.

 

[Irish#1]

I always supported Kelly and thought he should have been given another year when Jack gave him a chance to turn it around. It proved to be the right decision. I suspect part of Jack's conversation with Kelly was to stop fighting the things he saw as a negative, enhance the things he saw as a positive and look for other ways to improve the team. Did Kelly love ND as much as the rest of us? Probably not. We grew up ND fans. Kelly didn't. How much does MF love ND? It appears a lot. When he was hired as DC he even mentioned that he understood what a special place Notre Dame is once he got on campus and started to immerse himself. The way Kelly left and his recent comments show he's carrying a little grudge and is a little petty and stubborn.

 

[NDdomer2]

I always supported Kelly and thought he should have been given another year when Jack gave him a chance to turn it around. It proved to be the right decision. I suspect part of Jack's conversation with Kelly was to stop fighting the things he saw as a negative, enhance the things he saw as a positive and look for other ways to improve the team. Did Kelly love ND as much as the rest of us? Probably not. We grew up ND fans. Kelly didn't. How much does MF love ND? It appears a lot. When he was hired as DC he even mentioned that he understood what a special place Notre Dame is once he got on campus and started to immerse himself. The way Kelly left and his recent comments show he's carrying a little grudge and is a little petty and stubborn.

10+ years on the job with a few failed natty runs will do that to a man.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I always supported Kelly and thought he should have been given another year when Jack gave him a chance to turn it around. It proved to be the right decision. I suspect part of Jack's conversation with Kelly was to stop fighting the things he saw as a negative, enhance the things he saw as a positive and look for other ways to improve the team. Did Kelly love ND as much as the rest of us? Probably not. We grew up ND fans. Kelly didn't. How much does MF love ND? It appears a lot. When he was hired as DC he even mentioned that he understood what a special place Notre Dame is once he got on campus and started to immerse himself. The way Kelly left and his recent comments show he's carrying a little grudge and is a little petty and stubborn.

This is typical Kelly though. Remember, these gems, just to name a few? The fact is, when Kelly get's cornered, it's never his fault. That was the crux of the message from Driskell. There really is no denying it.

"Coaching had nothing to do with the outcome today,” After the Duke loss.

"Atrocious" snapping by Mustipher

“You know, I generally — I’m falling on the sword nine out of 10 times,” Kelly said. “But I know what I’m doing on a bye week. I’ve had great success. I know what it looks like.”

“I’m certainly not going to go back and second-guess the way I’ve prepared over 21 years in a bye week. Sometimes there’s some accountability from everybody, coaches and players alike ... They didn’t play as well as they needed to play.”

About Golson after ASU game " I don't know what else to do"

 

[Old Man Mike]

I call BS. Coach took blame dozens of times. Rewriting history doesn't make the rewrite true.

I can't understand the witch-hunt mentality here. ... maybe "nothing better to do"?

 

[IrishLion]

I call BS. Coach took blame dozens of times. Rewriting history doesn't make the rewrite true.

I can't understand the witch-hunt mentality here. ... maybe "nothing better to do"?

He did, but he also skirted obvious coaching issues in favor of laying things at the feet of his players in certain, maddening instances.

The hurricane game put all of his flaws on display in one grand spectacle. That's the one I'll always think about when this debate comes up.

 

[stlnd01]

Blaming players - as Kelly occasionally would when things went south - is not a great look for any coach. (Though, really, who among us was not frustrated as hell with Everett Golson in the latter half of 2014?)

But that’s not what people are talking about when they say Kelly didn’t “love” Notre Dame or made excuses rather than embrace “what makes Notre Dame Notre Dame.” I’m still curious for those examples.

 

[Rack Em]

Blaming players - as Kelly occasionally would when things went south - is not a great look for any coach. (Though, really, who among us was not frustrated as hell with Everett Golson in the latter half of 2014?)

But that’s not what people are talking about when they say Kelly didn’t “love” Notre Dame or made excuses rather than embrace “what makes Notre Dame Notre Dame.” I’m still curious for those examples.

Did Kelly ever seem excited when he talked about Notre Dame? Compare him to Holtz, Freeman (at least initially), or even Chuck Weis pre-termination. The ND job was just business to Kelly. The ND job was a passion for the other 3.

There are no specific examples of Kelly saying "I'm pretty 'meh' about Notre Dame." But there's 10 years of him never showing any passion about the University the way the other 3 did. I honestly can't help you any more than that.

Kelly is the CFO that is brought in to "right" the ship, puts in the hours for the paycheck, and plays the long game to cash in on his equity. Period.

 

[Irish4life]

Blaming players - as Kelly occasionally would when things went south - is not a great look for any coach. (Though, really, who among us was not frustrated as hell with Everett Golson in the latter half of 2014?)

But that’s not what people are talking about when they say Kelly didn’t “love” Notre Dame or made excuses rather than embrace “what makes Notre Dame Notre Dame.” I’m still curious for those examples.

Most blatant thing I can think of was the media presentation following the reporting from Sampson about Kelly's lack of investment on the trail, a little after Coach Freeman was hired as DC. "We can only recruit 50 of the top 100 players, therefore don't criticize me for being hands off on the trail" was as dumb then as it is now.

 

[NDohio]

I was (am) a Kelly fan. I wasn't ready for him to leave but he made that decision so here we are. One of the things that has stood out to me is the way he and MF approach the "shopping down a different aisle" routine. I always felt that BK used that as an excuse for not recruiting certain players and not having as good of a roster as the football elite. MF on the other hand uses this same ideal of "shopping down a different aisle" as a positive for how special ND is and that the elite players in the country should want to be a part of the ND family.