Jan 1 | Citrus Bowl Notre Dame vs LSU

[tko]

I think the sunburn contributed a fair amount to the look. A couple of times he was getting into the officials (rightfully so - holding was atrocious, one of the worst ones with Okwara) and another time when the punt hit whoever for the turnover.

That LSU guy had two fists full of Robertson's jersey and wouldn't let him get out of the way. Finke should've fallen on the damn ball right there in my opinion prior to it hitting Robertson.

 

[Bishop2b5]

You can schedule yourself a ceiling, or you can schedule yourself an opportunity at a NC.

Right now, ND is scheduling themselves out of the NC discussion.

If next season ND regresses to 8-4, people will put the entire burden on Kelly when in fact it should go this ridiculous schedule.

Maybe not scheduling yourselves completely out of it, but sure making it unnecessarily difficult on yourselves and unlikely most of the time. It's almost impossible to get up and play to your full potential every single week, especially when you're a Notre Dame or Alabama and EVERYONE has you circled on their schedule. I think ND should still play a tough national schedule, but dial it back to a reasonable level and give yourselves a bit of breathing room occasionally during the season so that you can rest some beat up starters and get some real game experience for younger players.

 

[Irish#1]

Think about the improvements we saw and then remember all of this happened with two new coordinators just getting their feet wet.

 

[BobbyMac]

Until BK has demonstrated that BK 2.0 has staying power, I am choosing to balance 2010- 2016 with 2017. I am hopeful there are no more losing seasons or even 8 win seasons, but I need more proof before thinking 13 is possible.

The new staff is a data point that renders all of your comparisons useless. Kelly saying bye to his DII All American buddies was the equivalent of an exorcism. This is a different BK. He changed (doesn't matter how/why) and it worked. He's even putting heat on the scheduling model, bless his soul.

Landing Franchise Phil, Jay Ademilola, with the safety and LB hauls was exactly what this class needed, the fact they snuck in what is turning out to look like the #1 or #2 Big WR is gravy.

If it wasn't for the changes in the 2019 class recruiting calendar and its early OV's, that class would be 3-4-5 players deeper right now... AND... ND is going to land the two most offered OT's in '19, Olmstead and Carroll. ND's Hot List for DT's in '19 is as good as it could possibly be. Their DL haul next year is going to rival '17's OL haul. One thing I'd bet it all on is... 2019 will be ND's greatest combined line recruiting in modern history.

I've seen the future and it is good.

 

[snoopdog]

Well, to be fair, the games you mention are not really analogous with your point. Kelly Bryant had a bum ankle and was concussed near the end of the 1H. Injuries were more of the issue than "letting their foot off the gas". For OSU, JT Barrett made a living of coming up flat in big games away from Columbus (he had some bad games in C-bus too). Against IOWA, UM, Wisc & USC, he had 6 TD's to 6 INT's (29-3 all other games) and threw for less than 180 yards / gm without penalizing for UM.

Those are very much different than take your foot off the pedal. Your points till stands though, as the schedule is difficult. However, nobody is saying Natty or bust. 10 wins per year, assuming wins in some big games, would be what I am looking for. So far, BK hasn't produced that consistency.

I would argue they are completely analogous.

Injuries are a major part of P5 football. Expecting to play a very tough schedule and not have key personnel injured over the course of a season is unreasonable. Look what happened to FSU's season when they lost their QB.

Also going into a hostile stadium, Like tOSU did can unnerve a team. Look at Wimbush in Miami? Next season they will be playing at Virg Tech....at Northwestern and at USC.......which will all be tough games

Also Notre Dame will be young next year in all the key positions. Especially if Coney leaves. This presents another challenge.

And If they have a run into a string of injuries with that schedule...they could easily finish with 6-7 wins including bowl game.

 

[ACamp1900]

Who was at the game?? How were the LSU faithful before during and after??

 

[Rack Em]

Who was at the game?? How were the LSU faithful before during and after??

Just as dumb and toothless as before the game

 

[RDU Irish]

I would argue they are completely analogous.

Injuries are a major part of P5 football. Expecting to play a very tough schedule and not have key personnel injured over the course of a season is unreasonable. Look what happened to FSU's season when they lost their QB.

Also going into a hostile stadium, Like tOSU did can unnerve a team. Look at Wimbush in Miami? Next season they will be playing at Virg Tech....at Northwestern and at USC.......which will all be tough games

Also Notre Dame will be young next year in all the key positions. Especially if Coney leaves. This presents another challenge.

And If they have a run into a string of injuries with that schedule...they could easily finish with 6-7 wins including bowl game.

Which is why our schedule is pure stupidity. Bama - as pointed in another thread - schedules to cushion the grind as much as possible and they are as deep and talented as any team in the country. Halloween bye, LSU first week of November, Auburn last game of the year with a FBS patsy the week before.

2018 - bye before LSU, Citadel before Auburn
2017 - bye before LSU, Mercer before Auburn
2016 - bye before LSU, Chattanooga before Auburn
2015 - bye before LSU, Charleston Southern before Auburn
2014 - bye before LSU, Western Carolina before Auburn
2013 - bye before LSU, Chattanooga before Auburn

I mean shouldn't they be embarrassed by this? How chicken shit! And the SEC fully enables it - as they should b/c the conference "strength" is 99% smoke and mirrors dependent on riding their coattails.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Until BK has demonstrated that BK 2.0 has staying power, I am choosing to balance 2010- 2016 with 2017. I am hopeful there are no more losing seasons or even 8 win seasons, but I need more proof before thinking 13 is possible.

This may be the closest BK has been to doing what he should have done after the title game experience. He lost his chance there to make ND in to an elite program again. But he has some momentum again - not as much as after 2012 - but enough to raise the level of the program to a higher level. A 13 win season may be a bit much right now but a few more solid recruiting classes coupled with what appears to be a better coaching staff may be just the ticket to getting closer than I would have imagined just a month ago.

 

[RDU Irish]

This may be the closest BK has been to doing what he should have done after the title game experience. He lost his chance there to make ND in to an elite program again. But he has some momentum again - not as much as after 2012 - but enough to raise the level of the program to a higher level. A 13 win season may be a bit much right now but a few more solid recruiting classes coupled with what appears to be a better coaching staff may be just the ticket to getting closer than I would have imagined just a month ago.

Only way they get 13 wins is to win the playoffs. I don't think anyone in the country goes undefeated against the schedules we have signed up for the next few years.

 

[ACamp1900]

Only way they get 13 wins is to win the playoffs. I don't think anyone in the country goes undefeated against the schedules we have signed up for the next few years.

Anything is possible but it's highly unlikely, and there will go any momentum we are discussing... this is why scheduling matters...

 

[Bishop2b5]

Just as dumb and toothless as before the game

LSU fans are known to be drunk, shirtless, toothless, tatted up from head to toe, and foul-mouthed. Their husbands are almost as bad.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Well we do get a break after these 6 games. Navy in San Diego is a breeze, the Big apple for a Syracuse crushing and then a cupcake finale in LA against perennial doormat SC.

Whoever scheduled this mess should loss all scheduling privileges forever.

I vote for a horse whippin

 

[ACamp1900]

The Stanford, Va Tech, Pitt, Navy, Northwestern, Florida State six pack in the middle of the season will be impossible to win all six. Individually the schedule is not horrendous but when looked at in context of the style of play and sequence it borders on suicidal. Which is why we follow that with about 6000 miles of travel in 8 days to finish the season.

This is what I've been saying forever... it's not Pitt...... in a vacuum... then Navy,... all on their own... then,....

I love the schedule thumpers who just put Ws next to games as if the previous few games have no impact on anything. We need to be WAY more analytical with our schedule making.

 

[dublinirish]

This is what I've been saying forever... it's not Pitt...... in a vacuum... then Navy,... all on their own... then,....

I love the schedule thumpers who just put Ws next to games as if the previous few games have no impact on anything. We need to be WAY more analytical with our schedule making.

i think ND needs to wheel out the Stanford-USC-Navy plus middling P5/G5 schedule and go undefeated and see what happens. Perhaps the brand name- audience draw could propel ND to the playoffs. Make the committee make that choice. Fall back is you go to a NY6 game minimum. Without ND actually testing out this hypothesis i think them scheduling super crazy like 2018 is such a dumb move.

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's my full photo sequence from Boykin's ridiculous one-handed catch and crazy run into the end zone to win the game yesterday. There's 56 photos total and an official that nearly ruins every shot. <a href="https://t.co/CTAzzJqRZx">pic.twitter.com/CTAzzJqRZx</a></p>— Robert Franklin (@TheRobFranklin) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRobFranklin/status/948242459011813376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NDdomer2]

just to back WJ up with a break down of the last 20 seasons of ND football:

Year Coach Record Final Rankings(AP / Coaches)
2017 Brian Kelly 10-3 14th before final polls
2016 Brian Kelly 4-8
2015 Brian Kelly 10-3 11th / 10th
2014 Brian Kelly 8-5
2013 Brian Kelly 9-4 21st / 24th
2012 Brian Kelly 12-1 4th / 3rd
2011 Brian Kelly 8-5
2010 Brian Kelly 8-5
2009 Charlie Weis 6-6
2008 Charlie Weis 7-6
2007 Charlie Weis 3-9
2006 Charlie Weis 10-3 17th / 19th
2005 Charlie Weis 9-3 9th / 11th
2004 Tyrone Willingham 6-6
2003 Tyrone Willingham 5-7
2002 Tyrone Willingham 10-3 17th / 17th
2001 Bob Davie 5-6
2000 Bob Davie 9-3 15th / 16th
1999 Bob Davie 5-7
1998 Bob Davie 9-3 22nd / 22nd
1997 Bob Davie 7-6

 

[Legacy]

from:
Notre Dame stuns LSU, 'DBU' with 'spectacular' game-winning TD for Citrus Bowl win (The Advocate)

 

[ACamp1900]

just to back WJ up with a break down of the last 20 seasons of ND football:

Year Coach Record Final Rankings(AP / Coaches)
2017 Brian Kelly 10-3 14th before final polls
2016 Brian Kelly 4-8
2015 Brian Kelly 10-3 11th / 10th
2014 Brian Kelly 8-5
2013 Brian Kelly 9-4 21st / 24th
2012 Brian Kelly 12-1 4th / 3rd
2011 Brian Kelly 8-5
2010 Brian Kelly 8-5
2009 Charlie Weis 6-6
2008 Charlie Weis 7-6
2007 Charlie Weis 3-9
2006 Charlie Weis 10-3 17th / 19th
2005 Charlie Weis 9-3 9th / 11th
2004 Tyrone Willingham 6-6
2003 Tyrone Willingham 5-7
2002 Tyrone Willingham 10-3 17th / 17th
2001 Bob Davie 5-6
2000 Bob Davie 9-3 15th / 16th
1999 Bob Davie 5-7
1998 Bob Davie 9-3 22nd / 22nd
1997 Bob Davie 7-6

Seven .500 or worse years in twenty seasons... yikes.

 

[GATTACA!]

i think ND needs to wheel out the Stanford-USC-Navy plus middling P5/G5 schedule and go undefeated and see what happens. Perhaps the brand name- audience draw could propel ND to the playoffs. Make the committee make that choice. Fall back is you go to a NY6 game minimum. Without ND actually testing out this hypothesis i think them scheduling super crazy like 2018 is such a dumb move.

Next year we would 100% be in, this year i'm not so sure. As dumb as it is polling momentum is massive. Next year we'll start off ranked high enough to make the playoffs with only 3 or 4 big games. Starting from unranked and getting there is a whole other beast.

 

[Old Man Mike]

The way I read those records is:

A). Coach Kelly has over the last six years given us the best three rated teams of the last twenty;
B). Just imagine what the records would have been if we'd had even one good QB for a three year stretch (Chryst/ Hendrix/ Golson/ Zaire/ Kizer --- all of whom people thought would be excellent, or at least far better than they were, and Kizer an AA if he'd stayed around.) In my opinion it would have been the seven best rated teams of the last twenty.

These sorts of things are why I hold the (surprisingly lonely -- to me) opinion that Coach has been consistently generally excellent, being held back by only three things:

1). the previously mentioned diabolical bad luck of great QB prospects turning out to be emotional busts (a problem which can now be solved by Book, and very probably spectacularly solved by Jurkovec);
2). being too damm good a man in showing loyalty to certain coaching teammates, not being able to see their faults quickly, and being really reluctant to replace them (another problem that now seems to be solved, but surely at some emotional cost);
3). also showing probably too much loyalty to certain veteran players (the absolute worst case being, again sadly, the Joe Schmitt situation --- a good player overmatched in high-level games, and supported by a DC whose schemes were too complicated and "intellectual" to be comprehended by anyone else) and hard-working practice players who might not have been as functional as some younger guys who might have been practicing pretty hard themselves but couldn't get into the game-plan focus (it "feels" as though this happens to some of our receivers, and maybe RBs.)

My who-cares opinion is: Coach Kelly is great --- probably should be runner-up Coach-of-the-Year to the UCF guy. Coach will have us back "in the conversation" again next year, unless the Devil strikes our QB situation again. And thank GOD for the win vs LSU --- maybe it will get some people off his back.

 

[IrishLax]

from:
Notre Dame stuns LSU, 'DBU' with 'spectacular' game-winning TD for Citrus Bowl win (The Advocate)

That's the best photo I've seen yet!

 

[ulukinatme]

Some pretty funny melt downs on https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/lsu-sports/ right now. I feel it's only fair since they were poking around over here and making fun of the few optimistic posts we had.

 

[dshans]

Who was at the game?? How were the LSU faithful before during and after??

I was at the game and I would say that the LSU fans were boisterous and cocky before and during the bulk of the game. Not so much so at the end of the game and after.

The ND contingent were also cocky before the kick off but pretty subdued during most of the game. The weather threw a huge monkey wrench in the works. Demeanors on both sides were tempered.

Post game the Tiger fans were pretty damn quiet and the Irish fans clearly happy but relatively subdued.

Faces were frozen and hands stuffed in pockets.

I did get to shake hands with, and chat for a bit, with Dad4aa. A highlight for me.

The friend I went with, a high school classmate in Orlando, as well as an ND (class of '74) classmate, have a 3-0 record in ND bowl games we've attended together. The '71 Cotton Bowl against Texas, the '75 Orange Bowl against Alabama, and now the '18 Citrus Bowl.

I think that Notre Dame should provide the two of us with all expenses paid trips to future bowl games the Irish play.

What say ye? Should I start a Facebook/Twitter/Pinterest campaign?

 

[dad4aa]

I was at the game and I would say that the LSU fans were boisterous and cocky before and during the bulk of the game. Not so much so at the end of the game and after.

The ND contingent were also cocky before the kick off but pretty subdued during most of the game. The weather threw a huge monkey wrench in the works. Demeanors on both sides were tempered.

Post game the Tiger fans were pretty damn quiet and the Irish fans clearly happy but relatively subdued.

Faces were frozen and hands stuffed in pockets.

I did get to shake hands with, and chat for a bit, with Dad4aa. A highlight for me.

The friend I went with, a high school classmate in Orlando, as well as an ND (class of '74) classmate, have a 3-0 record in ND bowl games we've attended together. The '71 Cotton Bowl against Texas, the '75 Orange Bowl against Alabama, and now the '18 Citrus Bowl.

I think that Notre Dame should provide the two of us with all expenses paid trips to future bowl games the Irish play.

What say ye? Should I start a Facebook/Twitter/Pinterest campaign?

Dshans, it was great meeting you and hanging out for a bit. I agree with the bolded. You need to bring your karma to all of our future big bowl games.

 

[dshans]

Dshans, it was great meeting you and hanging out for a bit. I agree with the bolded. You need to bring your karma to all of our future big bowl games.

I'll insist that you be included in a package deal.

 

[KPENN]

My only two things at the moment.

B). Just imagine what the records would have been if we'd had even one good QB for a three year stretch (Chryst/ Hendrix/ Golson/ Zaire/ Kizer --- all of whom people thought would be excellent, or at least far better than they were, and Kizer an AA if he'd stayed around.) In my opinion it would have been the seven best rated teams of the last twenty.

To an extent, but part of that falls under coaching. He screwed the pooch on the QB situation last season. I'm not sure how much of it would have mattered, but he frankly did not do a good job last year. I just don't think his hands are clean on the whole QB situation.

My who-cares opinion is: Coach Kelly is great --- probably should be runner-up Coach-of-the-Year to the UCF guy. Coach will have us back "in the conversation" again next year, unless the Devil strikes our QB situation again. And thank GOD for the win vs LSU --- maybe it will get some people off his back.

I disagree big time here, No he shouldn't. Coach of the year candidates don't get boatraced by 33 in the biggest game of the year. Yes there were some great moments this year, this years team was greatly improved from last, but that game was completely unacceptable.

I say these things as someone that likes Kelly and doesn't think he should be fired/replaced.

 

[ACamp1900]

Frost should easily win CotY... if he hasn't already, right?

 

[KPENN]

Frost should easily win CotY... if he hasn't already, right?

I looked on wikipedia and he's won 3, idk how many others there are and which one matters the most.

 

[ACamp1900]

I am super interested to see what he does at Nebraska.... also be interested to see if Riley can reignite OSU again.