All Things SkunkBear

[IrishJayhawk]

Brady Hoke's Dangerous Incompetence So Bad ESPN Announcers Denounce It

The announcers were right on. That was flat-out dangerous. Mgoblog is exploding about it...though there are about 2 guys who think it was perfectly okay to leave him out there.

And that was a pretty textbook case of targeting. Kid should have been ejected.

 

[ulukinatme]

Hasn't it been established that he prefers hot dog water?

Yes

 

[NDdomer2]

I think if someone is going to be fired over Morris going back in it should be team doctor. I am not disagreeing hoke is an idiot and should have realized morris was done for the night.

However, throughout all the football I played my coaches always deferred to the trainer/doctors.

Hoke's dumbass doesn't have a headset. So yes, he sees Shane struggle off the field, puts in Devin. But, I don't ever see a doctor/trainer tell Hoke that Shane is done for the day. So when the helmet pops off Hoke does what I think any coach who wasn't informed would do. Just calls for next qb. Shane shows up on sideline with helmet on head.

Why in the fuck as a trainer/doctor do you let that kid get off the bench, find his helmet, and run into the game.

This isn't to say no blame on Brady. Yes he should find out about his players health, yes he should have just used the timeout. But, I still don't think this is his mistake FIRST.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I think if someone is going to be fired over Morris going back in it should be team doctor. I am not disagreeing hoke is an idiot and should have realized morris was done for the night.

However, throughout all the football I played my coaches always deferred to the trainer/doctors.

Hoke's dumbass doesn't have a headset. So yes, he sees Shane struggle off the field, puts in Devin. But, I don't ever see a doctor/trainer tell Hoke that Shane is done for the day. So when the helmet pops off Hoke does what I think any coach who wasn't informed would do. Just calls for next qb. Shane shows up on sideline with helmet on head.

Why in the fuck as a trainer/doctor do you let that kid get off the bench, find his helmet, and run into the game.

This isn't to say no blame on Brady. Yes he should find out about his players health, yes he should have just used the timeout. But, I still don't think this is his mistake FIRST.

To be fair, we don't know what was going on. And kids with leg injuries can look wobbly. It's hard to know if he was fighting a brain injury or if he was just really really gimpy.

He also might have gone through a quick concussion protocol. We didn't see if the athletic trainer worked with him or not. If they didn't, it's only because they didn't see it happen. No athletic trainer would have allowed a kid to play if they knew he was concussed. My wife takes away the helmet and doesn't allow it. No coach can overrule the AT or the team doc in that situation.

 

[woolybug25]

Read this post on MGOblog and think its right on regarding Hoke keeping Morris in the game. "Not noticing" his obvious concussive symptoms is not an acceptable excuse. To beat a dead horse, that's why real coaches wear headsets. So they can communicate with the rest of the staff, and in turn, be able to execute their NCAA mandated concussion management plan.

Unacceptable, and possibly a violation of NCAA Bylaw 3.2.4.18.b
3.2.4.18 Concussion Management Plan.

"An active member institution shall have a concussion management plan for its student-athletes. The plan shall include [...] a process that ensures a student-athlete who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion shall be removed from athletics activities and evaluated by a medical staff member"

So if Mr. Hoke did not know whether or not Shane Morris was concussed, NCAA bylaws require that he be taken out of the game immediately in order to be evaluated.

It was an incredibly egregious act by Hoke.

 

[woolybug25]

To be fair, we don't know what was going on. And kids with leg injuries can look wobbly. It's hard to know if he was fighting a brain injury or if he was just really really gimpy.

He also might have gone through a quick concussion protocol. We didn't see if the athletic trainer worked with him or not. If they didn't, it's only because they didn't see it happen. No athletic trainer would have allowed a kid to play if they knew he was concussed. My wife takes away the helmet and doesn't allow it. No coach can overrule the AT or the team doc in that situation.

Watching it live on tv, the reason he went back in was because the third string QB couldn't find his helmet... yes, that really happened.

When Morris went back in, he was standing on the sidelines. Not sure what station the clip was above (i'm assuming BTN), but the programming I watched clearly showed Morris on the sidelines with no medical attention. MGOblog posts reiterate this. I'm not even concerned about him going back in the game though, i'm concerned with Hoke not noticing the obvious signs of his QB being concussed on the field. "not noticing" is not acceptable in today's cfb. See my post above.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Read this post on MGOblog and think its right on regarding Hoke keeping Morris in the game. "Not noticing" his obvious concussive symptoms is not an acceptable excuse. To beat a dead horse, that's why real coaches wear headsets. So they can communicate with the rest of the staff, and in turn, be able to execute their NCAA mandated concussion management plan.



It was an incredibly egregious act by Hoke.

I don't think we know whether he was evaluated or not, do we? If not, it's very bad. But we didn't see him for every moment on the sidelines to know if he had gone through a protocol with the AT.

 

[arrowryan]

Read this post on MGOblog and think its right on regarding Hoke keeping Morris in the game. "Not noticing" his obvious concussive symptoms is not an acceptable excuse. To beat a dead horse, that's why real coaches wear headsets. So they can communicate with the rest of the staff, and in turn, be able to execute their NCAA mandated concussion management plan.



It was an incredibly egregious act by Hoke.

So he didn't see Shane Morris' inability to stand up straight and didn't see that he needed assistance from 3 Michigan players just so he wouldn't fall back down?

I can tell player safety is pretty important to him...

 

[woolybug25]

So he didn't see Shane Morris' inability to stand up straight and didn't see that he needed assistance from 3 Michigan players just so he wouldn't fall back down?

I can tell player safety is pretty important to him...

No $hit... I guess he missed the monster hit he took, one that the ref called roughing the passer on. I guess that paired with him wobbling up from said hit, wasn't glaringly obvious enough for someone of his mental capacity. lol

 

[woolybug25]

I don't think we know whether he was evaluated or not, do we? If not, it's very bad. But we didn't see him for every moment on the sidelines to know if he had gone through a protocol with the AT.

Like I said, watching it live and not on BTN, Morris was standing on the sidelines by Hoke without any staff near him. Posters on MGoblog are saying the same thing that I saw. The amount of time between him leaving and returning to the game isn't even long enough to go through a full concussion protocol.

 

[Rack Em]

If you're the head coach and your offense is on the field, why in the hell aren't you looking at your QB? It's not like he was looking at a play sheet trying to get the next play in. He literally has nothing to do except stand there and clap. No excuse to "not know whether he had a concussion or not."

I don't buy his nonsense for a second.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Like I said, watching it live and not on BTN, Morris was standing on the sidelines by Hoke without any staff near him. Posters on MGoblog are saying the same thing that I saw. The amount of time between him leaving and returning to the game isn't even long enough to go through a full concussion protocol.

That depends on what their protocol is. It varies by school and is highly dependent on the information the kid is giving you. (This is all according to my wife, an athletic trainer, who is very up to date on concussion treatment)

 

[Johannes]

To be fair, we don't know what was going on. And kids with leg injuries can look wobbly. It's hard to know if he was fighting a brain injury or if he was just really really gimpy.

He also might have gone through a quick concussion protocol. We didn't see if the athletic trainer worked with him or not. If they didn't, it's only because they didn't see it happen. No athletic trainer would have allowed a kid to play if they knew he was concussed. My wife takes away the helmet and doesn't allow it. No coach can overrule the AT or the team doc in that situation.

I agree. A crucial part of this situation was lack of communication with the head coach. I can kind of understand that maybe Hoke did not see Morris limping around or shaking off a cloud of stars after getting lit up. Maybe. But this is 2014. The head coach of a major college football team should be plugged in to his team at all times. Someone else on the Michigan coaching staff saw that Morris was injured, but not taking himself out of the game. If crucial information needs to be relayed to Hoke, he should not need to be tracked down on the sideline (though that shouldn't be too hard in his case - zing!).

Even if he is not going to involve himself in the play calling, he should still be a part of team communication. What the hell else is a head coach good for during a game? He's a glorified spectator at that point. Just poor management all around.

 

[woolybug25]

That depends on what their protocol is. It varies by school and is highly dependent on the information the kid is giving you. (This is all according to my wife, an athletic trainer, who is very up to date on concussion treatment)

No it doesn't. There is a strict NCAA guideline on concussion protocol. I'll post it again, since apparently it went unread the first time.

Unacceptable, and possibly a violation of NCAA Bylaw 3.2.4.18.b
3.2.4.18 Concussion Management Plan.

"An active member institution shall have a concussion management plan for its student-athletes. The plan shall include [...] a process that ensures a student-athlete who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion shall be removed from athletics activities and evaluated by a medical staff member"

It is very clear that ALL TEAMS have to have a clear concussion management plan which includes any player with signs of a concussion to be seen by a medical staff member (not an athletic trainer). Hoke not only didn't have a process to notice obvious concussive symptoms in the most visible player on the field, but also didn't require a medical staff member to look at him. It's completely inexcusable. There is no excuse for him not coming immediately off of the field and be evaluated by a medical staff member. This simply wasn't done, and it doesn't matter what the student is telling you. Per the NCAA, the coaches have the responsibility of being the first line of defense for concussions. Hoke clearly didn't follow the protocol set by the NCAA.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

No it doesn't. There is a strict NCAA guideline on concussion protocol. I'll post it again, since apparently it went unread the first time.



It is very clear that ALL TEAMS have to have a clear concussion management plan which includes any player with signs of a concussion to be seen by a medical staff member (not an athletic trainer). Hoke not only didn't have a process to notice obvious concussive symptoms in the most visible player on the field, but also didn't require a medical staff member to look at him. It's completely inexcusable. There is no excuse for him not coming immediately off of the field and be evaluated by a medical staff member. This simply wasn't done, and it doesn't matter what the student is telling you. Per the NCAA, the coaches have the responsibility of being the first line of defense for concussions. Hoke clearly didn't follow the protocol set by the NCAA.

I read it. Yes, all teams have a clear concussion management plan. And it's possible (though I'm not sure how likely...I just decided to pump the brakes just a bit on my initial outrage) that the team went through that protocol.

An athletic trainer is considered part of the medical staff.

 

[OCIrish]

Jayhawk, I get what you're saying, in that all programs differ in how they implement the NCAA rule on concussion management, however, he wasn't even being evaluated by ANY medical staff from what I saw. And yes, there's a lot that is dependent on what information they get from Morris, but he's got to be asked the questions to begin with. What Wooly is saying, is that there's a clear lack of procedure by the Michigan staff to have Morris looked at......and there's NO way that the staff in the press box didn't see Morris struggling on the field. Complete drop of the ball by the Wolverine coaching staff.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Did you see the stands. It was embarrassing. Even Coke couldn't fill the seats. Even their fans weren't interested in watching the game. Can you really fault Hoke for not being interested either. I mean maybe he wasn't watching like the rest of the 'Michigan Men'

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Jayhawk, I get what you're saying, in that all programs differ in how they implement the NCAA rule on concussion management, however, he wasn't even being evaluated by ANY medical staff from what I saw. And yes, there's a lot that is dependent on what information they get from Morris, but he's got to be asked the questions to begin with. What Wooly is saying, is that there's a clear lack of procedure by the Michigan staff to have Morris looked at......and there's NO way that the staff in the press box didn't see Morris struggling on the field. Complete drop of the ball by the Wolverine coaching staff.

Sure. If he wasn't evaluated at all, that's bad. It's possible (I don't know how likely) that he was evaluated and the TV cameras didn't catch it..

 

[dad4aa]

Anyone hear if Michigan fudged the numbers for attendance or if their 39 year streak of 100,000+ ended yesterday? It looked like it ended but I haven't found any official stats.

 

[greyhammer90]

Anyone hear if Michigan fudged the numbers for attendance or if their 39 year streak of 100,000+ ended yesterday? It looked like it ended but I haven't found any official stats.

They claimed 102,000

 

[IrishJayhawk]

They claimed 102,000

And the crowd apparently laughed audibly when the number was announced.

 

[dad4aa]

They claimed 102,000

So looking at all the emplty seats, the stadium holds what...130,000.

 

[IrishLax]

They claimed 102,000

My initial thought was Dave Brandon sitting there "just claim we got 100k... wait, no... make it a hundred and TWO so it doesn't look as fishy..."

 

[Sherm Sticky]

They wish Rich Rod was still their coach


Sent via tapatalk

 

[Buster Bluth]

They wish Rich Rod was still their coach

Rich Rod with Mattison would be super formidable.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Is attendance the actual number physically present, or number of tickets sold?

 

[MNIrishman]

Rich Rod with Mattison would be super formidable.

Very short sighted firing on their part. That offense generally did a decent job.

 

[Booslum31]

Jayhawk, I get what you're saying, in that all programs differ in how they implement the NCAA rule on concussion management, however, he wasn't even being evaluated by ANY medical staff from what I saw. And yes, there's a lot that is dependent on what information they get from Morris, but he's got to be asked the questions to begin with. What Wooly is saying, is that there's a clear lack of procedure by the Michigan staff to have Morris looked at......and there's NO way that the staff in the press box didn't see Morris struggling on the field. Complete drop of the ball by the Wolverine coaching staff.

Concussions aren't funny by any means, however, I found it comical that when Gardner lost his helmet and had to come out of the game the "next guy in" couldn't find his helmet. I thought that was why they threw Morris back in. Just my interpretation.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>ABC World News Tonight just did story on Shane Morris being left in game after a hard hit to the head. Brady Hoke on same newscast as ISIS.</p>— Annie Apple (@SurvivinAmerica) <a href="https://twitter.com/SurvivinAmerica/status/516357776243970048">September 28, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[ResLife Hero]

SIAP:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Brady Hoke statement on Shane Morris controversy. <a href="http://t.co/w614zG8GSF">pic.twitter.com/w614zG8GSF</a> As you expected, it makes 0 sense.</p>— LostLettermen.com (@LostLettermen) <a href="https://twitter.com/LostLettermen/status/516388223065804800">September 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
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