'18 OH DE Malik Vann (Cincinnati Verbal)

NDinBoston

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I'm as mystified as any on the passing of Vann. However, my guess is they take 4 DL this cycle. They already have

Jayson Ademilola .9085
Justin Ademilola .8878

And they are going after Mustipher for the interior with a few backups. That leaves one spot for

Micah Parsons WDE 6-3 235 0.9986
KJ Henry WDE 6-5.5 235 0.9871
Justin Mascoll WDE 6-4 237 0.9575
Elijah Wade WDE 6-5 240 0.9357
Tyreke Smith WDE 6-3 260 0.9273
Thomas Booker WDE 6-4 250 0.9069
Malik Vann SDE 6-1.5 243 0.9054
Joseph Ossai WDE 6-4217 0.8842
Daniel Carson SDE 6-5 260 0.8556
Abdul-Malik McClain WDE 6-3 225 NR

I think by signing day 2018 a spot will open up and they should have taken Vann, but I don't know what kind of chance they have with the guys listed above. I personally think if they end up taking Carson or McClain over Vann then just doesn't make much sense but I'm no expert at all.

Exactly. No one knows what chance they have with these other guys. On the II podcast today, they mentioned that ND might see Vann as growing into a DT as well.

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I just don't think the ND staff would walk away from Vann if they didn't feel good about something else IMHO.
 

dublinirish

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the guy is a tweener, too unathletic to be a rush end and too small to be an interior guy. he's tyler stockton
 

irishnd31

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There's a first, Thomas Booker and Lumpy used in the same sentence. CP, you better look like this to be calling Book lumpy:

index.php

Dude's got quite the moose knuckle.
 
N

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I'm as mystified as any on the passing of Vann. However, my guess is they take 4 DL this cycle. They already have

Jayson Ademilola .9085
Justin Ademilola .8878

And they are going after Mustipher for the interior with a few backups. That leaves one spot for

Micah Parsons WDE 6-3 235 0.9986
KJ Henry WDE 6-5.5 235 0.9871
Justin Mascoll WDE 6-4 237 0.9575
Elijah Wade WDE 6-5 240 0.9357
Tyreke Smith WDE 6-3 260 0.9273
Thomas Booker WDE 6-4 250 0.9069
Malik Vann SDE 6-1.5 243 0.9054
Joseph Ossai WDE 6-4217 0.8842
Daniel Carson SDE 6-5 260 0.8556
Abdul-Malik McClain WDE 6-3 225 NR

I think by signing day 2018 a spot will open up and they should have taken Vann, but I don't know what kind of chance they have with the guys listed above. I personally think if they end up taking Carson or McClain over Vann then just doesn't make much sense but I'm no expert at all.
Great post.
 

Domina Nostra

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1. Last year at Wake, Elko's best pass rusher was his SDE. Huge misconception is that the WDE is your "pass rusher", and it isn't always the case. We need pass rushers, but that could come from WDE, SDE, Buck, Rover, etc. In fact, to take it even further, last year at Wake, Elko's Rover had more TFL's and sacks, than his WDE.

2. On your last comment, that's not even close to what is happening, so I'm not sure why you are concerned by that. They signed 2 in 16' and 1 in 17'. So they are on track from a numbers perspective. Again, if we sign one at both positions, that will be 4 deep at both positions to start the 2018 season. 2 juniors, 1 sophomore, and 1 Freshman, that's good numbers. Can't change what happened in the past.

3. Plus, you don't fix the problem by loading up more in one class. It's about balance and you have to start to build out balance at some point. He started with LB last cycle, and it looks like DE might be this cycle. While focusing on getting numbers at DB

1) That's a good point. I just meant if he doesn't have real pass-rushing potential, he's not an immediate take. If he was a SDE with excellent pass-rushing skills, that would be a different story.

Still, the WDE is the pass-rusher on the line not just because of scheme or skillset, but because he is on the edge has the most space to work with. It's natural. It's the same reason you line your big threat WR on the outside. So while some DTs are dominant enough to get their TFLs, you need the guy one the edge to take advantage of that spot. The fact that Elko found otherways to do it is a testament to his coaching prowess, but also an indictment on WF's WDEs. If he had Clemson's players, the stats should have looked different.

I'm not going to get too excited about everyone being a pass rusher. I was one of those people that was very, very happy with Diaco's bend-don't-break (if not his recruiting). Let's tackle and play sound and then I'll get excited about sacks.

2) They signed 2 in '16 and 1 in '17, but since they have no one in the classes above them, that's not good enough as a matter of planning. Kids's don't pan out on a 100% or 67% basis. You need to know what you have. Currently, we don't and so have to keep pushing.
- If one of your rising Senior and Junior WDEs is good, or if your rising Sophmore is pushing them out because he's really good (which is what we were hooping for, and maybe Hayes will arise in the Spring), then you are on track and can get back to 1 per year.
- If your rising Senior and Junior WDEs stink, you need to take 2 in the next class, even though that disrupts your balance.
- If you have no rising Junior or Senior, just 2 rising Sophomores with very little experience, and an incoming freshman project, you need to plan on taking 2 more, IMO. That position is generally too important. It's like QB. You can't not have a good QB.

3. You start building out balance once you have a couple good, experienced players in the rotation. For us, that will be next year, IMO, unless something big happens this Spring.[/QUOTE]
 

KizerWilhelm

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I'm as mystified as any on the passing of Vann. However, my guess is they take 4 DL this cycle. They already have

Jayson Ademilola .9085
Justin Ademilola .8878

And they are going after Mustipher for the interior with a few backups. That leaves one spot for

Micah Parsons WDE 6-3 235 0.9986
KJ Henry WDE 6-5.5 235 0.9871
Justin Mascoll WDE 6-4 237 0.9575
Elijah Wade WDE 6-5 240 0.9357
Tyreke Smith WDE 6-3 260 0.9273
Thomas Booker WDE 6-4 250 0.9069
Malik Vann SDE 6-1.5 243 0.9054
Joseph Ossai WDE 6-4217 0.8842
Daniel Carson SDE 6-5 260 0.8556
Abdul-Malik McClain WDE 6-3 225 NR

I think by signing day 2018 a spot will open up and they should have taken Vann, but I don't know what kind of chance they have with the guys listed above. I personally think if they end up taking Carson or McClain over Vann then just doesn't make much sense but I'm no expert at all.

I think we have a good chance at Booker and that he could be a better fit than Vann. But what kills me is I suspect ND really thinks they can flip Parsons, and that's what's behind this all.
 

Irish Man3

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I think we have a good chance at Booker and that he could be a better fit than Vann. But what kills me is I suspect ND really thinks they can flip Parsons, and that's what's behind this all.

I disagree entirely. First off, they play completely different positions and would have zero impact on one another.

I just think the board is over thinking this decision too much. ND has two kids already on board that will end up at SDE which is where they see Vann. Stop comparing Vann to these weakside ends because that's not his game.

This decision comes down to the fact that it's February and this class is half full with a ton of high end talent left on the board. The staff obviously feels good about Mustipher and another defensive player in a similar mold.
 

IrishLion

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BobbyMac

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So the final verdict on his size which has gone from 6-0 - 6-3 is:

6-2.5. Also measured in at 270lbs.

Didn't do a complete test but he did have a nice 4.38 Shuttle and a 36" Vert.

The Killer B's could've had him at 290-300 as a very athletic DT by his RS Jr. year.

Since my Commit-O-Meter for a Mustipher/JayAde/Jam Franklin haul is now at about 10% and sinking at the moment, I'd personally still take him as that... but we all know that ship sailed and got burned on the beach.
 

IrishLion

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The longer this goes, the more likely he is to be a hometown hero at Cincy.

I'm cool with that since ND is out.
 

NDdomer2

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So the final verdict on his size which has gone from 6-0 - 6-3 is:

6-2.5. Also measured in at 270lbs.

Didn't do a complete test but he did have a nice 4.38 Shuttle and a 36" Vert.

The Killer B's could've had him at 290-300 as a very athletic DT by his RS Jr. year.

Since my Commit-O-Meter for a Mustipher/JayAde/Jam Franklin haul is now at about 10% and sinking at the moment, I'd personally still take him as that... but we all know that ship sailed and got burned on the beach.

Ronnie Perkins Opening Stats:
6-2.5, 256 lbs

4.94 / Shuttle

28.6 Vert

One is worthy of an offer the other is not.
 

dwshade

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So the final verdict on his size which has gone from 6-0 - 6-3 is:

6-2.5. Also measured in at 270lbs.

Didn't do a complete test but he did have a nice 4.38 Shuttle and a 36" Vert.

The Killer B's could've had him at 290-300 as a very athletic DT by his RS Jr. year.

Since my Commit-O-Meter for a Mustipher/JayAde/Jam Franklin haul is now at about 10% and sinking at the moment, I'd personally still take him as that... but we all know that ship sailed and got burned on the beach.

Think I heard on II podcast that they think he's pretty much maxed out at current weight. He wouldn't carry any extra weight well.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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So the final verdict on his size which has gone from 6-0 - 6-3 is:

6-2.5. Also measured in at 270lbs.

Didn't do a complete test but he did have a nice 4.38 Shuttle and a 36" Vert.

The Killer B's could've had him at 290-300 as a very athletic DT by his RS Jr. year.

Since my Commit-O-Meter for a Mustipher/JayAde/Jam Franklin haul is now at about 10% and sinking at the moment, I'd personally still take him as that... but we all know that ship sailed and got burned on the beach.

Why is your meter at 10% and sinking? Because of Franklin? Mustipher? JayAde? I was under the assumption we are likely leading for Franklin and Mustipher. No idea on JayAde.
 

BobbyMac

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Think I heard on II podcast that they think he's pretty much maxed out at current weight. He wouldn't carry any extra weight well.

Not to argue but he can carry more. Sheldon was the same weight as a HS Jr and 6-0.
 

BobbyMac

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Not every kid is the same. Just because one added good weight doesn't mean another kid can.

As the former S&C coach for a Div I basketball program and someone who put on over 100lbs in the weight room... if Vann has put 25-30 on himself in the past year, B&B could put another 20 on him in a snap. That kids made to carry weight, look at his ass/thighs (bold this and quote lol) . 270 with little to no bad weight now? He'll go where you lead him. This kid's got the lucky gene.
 

connor_in

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As the former S&C coach for a Div I basketball program and someone who put on over 100lbs in the weight room... if Vann has put 25-30 on himself in the past year, B&B could put another 20 on him in a snap. That kids made to carry weight, look at his ass/thighs (bold this and quote lol) . 270 with little to no bad weight now? He'll go where you lead him. This kid's got the lucky gene.

3BrF1dm8TlS6j0ZA4znr_Confused%20George%20Clooney.gif
 
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#1rish

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Committed to Cincy. Edit: guess not, didn't read earlier posts.
 
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IrishLion

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This is good stuff.

If Cincy can grab Hawkins and Javon Hicks, too..... holy cow
 

GBdomer

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Awesome for Cinnci and Fickell. My question is with him committing to them how many of the big dogs said no? I'm not trying to bash him at all and I don't know for sure but I'm wondering if schools such as PSU, MSU and Wisconsin said no thanks. Or maybe Cinnci just won the crooting battle. Either way good luck to Malik and great get for Fickell
 

IrishLion

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Awesome for Cinnci and Fickell. My question is with him committing to them how many of the big dogs said no? I'm not trying to bash him at all and I don't know for sure but I'm wondering if schools such as PSU, MSU and Wisconsin said no thanks. Or maybe Cinnci just won the crooting battle. Either way good luck to Malik and great get for Fickell

Word around Cincinnati is that Sparty was the only big dog really pushing.

Apparently he's been committed for a week or so behind the scenes. The Cincy reporters were all sitting on the news, I guess.
 

GBdomer

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Word around Cincinnati is that Sparty was the only big dog really pushing.

Apparently he's been committed for a week or so behind the scenes. The Cincy reporters were all sitting on the news, I guess.

MSU recruiting is also a mess. The 247 MSU gang can't stand their recruiting mod at all. Dude is the worst at his job and the MSU fans honestly just eat him up all day long. I loved reading that board till I was blacklisted from it
 

dwshade

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Looks like all the bigger schools took a pass on Vann. Never understood the hype from so many on him. Nice player but there are plenty of nice players.
 

zelezo vlk

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MSU recruiting is also a mess. The 247 MSU gang can't stand their recruiting mod at all. Dude is the worst at his job and the MSU fans honestly just eat him up all day long. I loved reading that board till I was blacklisted from it
How many boards are you blacklisted from?

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