Quarterback Controversy 2016

[IrishLax]

I'm a stupidly passionate fan just like all of you, and as the season approaches, I feel like I'm going to lean more towards Malik. He has that craziness about him. And not a bad craziness, but a 'win' craziness. He's a more talented Tebow. There I said it!

That's actually a really interesting comparison.

 

[Ndaccountant]

One other thing to ponder is if the coaches let the OSU situation last year influence their decision. Jones was clearly the more "NFL ready" type of QB that performed really well once JT went down. Jones got the nod and the team really didn't look like they hit full stride until JT became starter. Just interesting in how similar that situation is to ND this year.

 

[IrishLion]

One other thing to ponder is if the coaches let the OSU situation last year influence their decision. Jones was clearly the more "NFL ready" type of QB that performed really well once JT went down. Jones got the nod and the team really didn't look like they hit full stride until JT became starter. Just interesting in how similar that situation is to ND this year.

I get the initial comparison, but ND isn't dealing with a similar situation really.

Jones operated an extremely limited, play-action oriented offense for a limited period of time. No one knew how to prepare for it or defend it in that short timeframe, which is why he was so successful. He handed off to Elliot, turned himself into a battering ram, and then used his arm cannon to go over the top. Once he went into the next season with a full offense, he couldn't handle it. Urban screwed up by not realizing earlier that JT was the better option in terms of running their whole offense for an entire year.

In terms of ND, we don't have that problem. We know Malik and DeShone can both run full, although slightly different, variations of the offense.

Whoever starts for ND, we don't need to worry about that guy looking bogged down by a full playbook like Cardale did at OSU.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm a stupidly passionate fan just like all of you, and as the season approaches, I feel like I'm going to lean more towards Malik. He has that craziness about him. And not a bad craziness, but a 'win' craziness. He's a more talented Tebow. There I said it!

So what you're really saying is Tebow's a poor man's Malik.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I disagree that they run the same offense. Zaire is such a powerful and talented runner and such a mediocre passer (despite having a cannon), that it looks very different to me.

The Texas game was fool's gold because that team was in dissaray. The guys he was hitting were WIDE open. The LSU and Virginia games are what we should expect, IMO. He played well in both, but there is a level of sloppiness when he's in the backfield that I just can't take.

Kizer's not always more productive, but his presence in the pocket is much steadier and PURELY FROM A FAN PERSPECTIVE, calms me down and makes the game more watchable. He's a much better passer, and not nearly as good a runner (though he is fast and strong and very productive). He may be cocky, but not in a bad way.

I would got with Kizer without question. But I think Zaire should get long stretches--maybe right out of half time, and definitly whenever we have a comfortable lead--just to terrify the other team. You can't keep that beast caged.

 

[woolybug25]

I disagree that they run the same offense. Zaire is such a powerful and talented runner and such a mediocre passer (despite having a cannon), that it looks very different to me.

The Texas game was fool's gold because that team was in dissaray. The guys he was hitting were WIDE open. The LSU and Virginia games are what we should expect, IMO. He played well in both, but there is a level of sloppiness when he's in the backfield that I just can't take.

Kizer's not always more productive, but his presence in the pocket is much steadier and PURELY FROM A FAN PERSPECTIVE, calms me down and makes the game more watchable. He's a much better passer, and not nearly as good a runner (though he is fast and strong and very productive). He may be cocky, but not in a bad way.

I would got with Kizer without question. But I think Zaire should get long stretches--maybe right out of half time, and definitly whenever we have a comfortable lead--just to terrify the other team. You can't keep that beast caged.

This is where I'm at.

 

[RDU Irish]

Heisman odds have both at 28/1 - which would imply to me whoever wins the starting job is 14/1.

Without a doubt whoever is leading our team will be in NYC if we make the playoffs.

 

[GoIrish41]

Kizer has good year, goes pro, #3 or #4 QB drafted..

Malik graduates this December and is at Florida, Clemson or LSU in '17. Enrolls in Jan if ND plays in a Dec bowl.

Wimbush starts in '17 & '18.

Crystal ball gets foggy after that.

Looking forward to this season, but I can't wait to see Wimbush take the field. Soooo much talent.

 

[connor_in]

I've thought the same thing plenty of times, but then I remember it would probably be easier to just learn how to run between the tackles again.

We haz FullBackz?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I'm with many of you in that, Zaire looks like a great run-option QB but at times his passes were poorly timed or inaccurate. I have no doubt he can clean it up but if I'm looking for a QB to maximally stress the defense, I believe Kizer does that.

I'm hopeful our OL continues it's very good/great play and that our RBs will be able to capitalize on that. This means we need a QB who can stretch the field vertically with his arm. Not just brute force power, which I believe both possess, but with timing and accuracy, which I believe Kizer has shown more.

No doubt, either QB will help us win games but I believe Kizer's skillset is preferable if given the option. If Kizer was a statue, this would be far more nuanced but he's capable of scrambling for 5-20 yards on any given play which further stresses a defense.

**Caveat: I trust Kelly to make the right call

 

[SoIll]

For the record, I've heard the same thing about Malik and Deshone, numerous times. People absolutely adore Malik. As for Deshone? I think LAX was a bit nice. Lets just say he isn't a fan favorite throughout campus. Definiently rubs people the wrong way.

With that being said, I am so glad I am not the one making this decision. Wow.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Ill be happy with either. The one thing that makes me lean towards MZ is that I feel more comfortable when he takes off with the ball. That's not to say that DK isn't safe with it, I just feel MZ is more explosive and less likely to cough it up if he takes a big hit. I think both are very adequate passers.

 

[arrowryan]

Kizer definitely dresses preppy and I can see how he could come off as a douche to some people, but I have never gotten that vibe from him

 

[woolybug25]

Ill be happy with either. The one thing that makes me lean towards MZ is that I feel more comfortable when he takes off with the ball. That's not to say that DK isn't safe with it, I just feel MZ is more explosive and less likely to cough it up if he takes a big hit. I think both are very adequate passers.

I honestly don't care about who is more comfortable taking off with the ball, because they both have escapabilty and I want a QB that can hang in the pocket and deliver downfield under pressure. I want an offense where the run game comes from the RB's, not the QB.

Run the ball. Stretch the field vertically. That's my jam.

 

[dshans]

That's my jam.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nlUai6D7xh4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[koonja]

[QUOTE=arrowryan;1752956]Kizer definitely dresses preppy and I can see how he could come off as a douche to some people, but I have never gotten that vibe from him[/QUOTE]

Do you interact with him? Serious qu.

 

[arrowryan]

Do you interact with him? Serious qu.

I have a couple of times and some of my friends in college have as well. Some of his buddies lived in the same apartment building as me last school year so I saw him quite a bit. I've always viewed him as a nice guy. He's definitely no Jimmy Clausen.

 

[IrishLax]

I have a couple of times and some of my friends in college have as well. Some of his buddies lived in the same apartment building as me last school year so I saw him quite a bit. I've always viewed him as a nice guy. He's definitely no Jimmy Clausen.

Very true.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Kizer definitely dresses preppy and I can see how he could come off as a douche to some people, but I have never gotten that vibe from him

Yeah, my friend lives in Stanford and says he's a really cool guy

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Quarterback Controversy 2016

Honestly, I feel like 99% of the people in the "I met him, he's a cocky douchebag" camp when talking about any athlete is a mouth breather who makes things very awkward when the meeting takes place.

Sorry the dude didn't give a complete stranger bro hugs and share a joint with you. He's not a prick because at a party, restaurant, etc. he would rather be hanging with his friends than posing for pictures with some 40 something creeper, or discussing how awesome he is with some star struck fanboy.

 

[Graybeard52]

It's pretty much impossible to gauge someone's personality without interacting with them on a regular basis. I have never been a college student athlete, let along one that requires ND's standards and I don't know what it entails as far as workload goes although I imagine it can be pretty difficult.

When it comes to football, I actually prefer the calm, cool and collected type of QB who at the same time, isn't afraid to display emotion at times because sometimes being overly emotional can lead to poor decisions.

I believe either Kizer or Zaire is fully capable of leading ND football. They're obviously 1A and 1B(Take your pick) but it will probably come down to the type of offense BK wants to run and I don't think anyone really knows that for certain. ND has better offensive depth than they have had in awhile so it could go in either direction. Since the WR corp is fairly inexperienced, I lean towards believing it will be run heavy, which would probably favor Zaire. Another aspect that makes it hard to figure out is that BK's offense has been more run heavy one year, more pass happy in another based on personnel.

Either way, we'll find out fairly soon. Personally, I prefer a run heavy, ball control scheme but I don't really care as long as ND is winning.

 

[Booslum31]

Honestly, I feel like 99% of the people in the "I met him, he's a cocky douchebag" camp when talking about any athlete is a mouth breather who makes things very awkward when the meeting takes place.

Sorry the dude didn't give a complete stranger bro hugs and share a joint with you. He's not a prick because at a party, restaurant, etc. he would rather be hanging with his friends than posing for pictures with some 40 something creeper, or discussing how awesome he is with some star struck fanboy.

Crushed it!

 

[rocket66]

Honestly, I feel like 99% of the people in the "I met him, he's a cocky douchebag" camp when talking about any athlete is a mouth breather who makes things very awkward when the meeting takes place.

Sorry the dude didn't give a complete stranger bro hugs and share a joint with you. He's not a prick because at a party, restaurant, etc. he would rather be hanging with his friends than posing for pictures with some 40 something creeper, or discussing how awesome he is with some star struck fanboy.

Burrrrrrrrn!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gkIrish]

Your post is fine and it makes sense in general, but who here is talking about chance meetings with random athletes you don't know? We're talking about how they're view by their teammates and coaches. Those are the people that matter. I've never once heard someone say a bad thing about Zaire's leadership and personality as a teammate in any context... I have heard some complaints about Kizer. And I bet a lot of people on here have heard something similar. It's not very different than the kind of stuff you heard about Golson two years ago, but also not as bad as some of the stuff you heard about Golson when it was Zaire vs Golson.

Like someone said, he's no Jimmy Clausen. It's not like Zaire is some perfect dude and Kizer is some ass clown. But when you're evaluating every aspect of "who should be starting QB?" leadership usually factors somewhere in there and I think if you polled players on the team about 80% would say Zaire has better leadership qualities. That's the only reason I brought it up.

Maybe that's true but you also have to remember that Zaire has been with the program for an extra season and that helps you become a leader. I think a lot of kids start to "get it" in year 3 in terms of leadership so I would not be surprised if Kizer completely changes whatever attitude you have heard he has.

 

[irishandy]

The thing about Clausen is that he had so much hype that came with him. I think I remember reading somewhere that he was dubbed the next Lebron James?? I can think the same hype could build up for Jurkovec, thankfully Heistand will recruit some good OL to block for him. Put Clausen in Kelly's offense system in 2010-- Heisman winner.

Back to this year's competition I know that I've read it, I know that Kelly has said it that he isn't going to do it, but...he has done it before and Cincinnati was damn good in 2009 with their system. Malik and DZ are 2 different type of QB's that would throw a monkey wrench in our opponents defense...I think both play.

 

[Irish YJ]

The thing about Clausen is that he had so much hype that came with him. I think I remember reading somewhere that he was dubbed the next Lebron James?? I can think the same hype could build up for Jurkovec, thankfully Heistand will recruit some good OL to block for him. Put Clausen in Kelly's offense system in 2010-- Heisman winner.

Back to this year's competition I know that I've read it, I know that Kelly has said it that he isn't going to do it, but...he has done it before and Cincinnati was damn good in 2009 with their system. Malik and DZ are 2 different type of QB's that would throw a monkey wrench in our opponents defense...I think both play.

I normally hate 2QB systems. But typically I'm firmly on one side or the other. I love both these guys. They both have the ability to wreck opposing Ds. Let them both play IMO.

 

[Rocket89]

The thing about Clausen is that he had so much hype that came with him. I think I remember reading somewhere that he was dubbed the next Lebron James?? I can think the same hype could build up for Jurkovec, thankfully Heistand will recruit some good OL to block for him. Put Clausen in Kelly's offense system in 2010-- Heisman winner.

Back to this year's competition I know that I've read it, I know that Kelly has said it that he isn't going to do it, but...he has done it before and Cincinnati was damn good in 2009 with their system. Malik and DZ are 2 different type of QB's that would throw a monkey wrench in our opponents defense...I think both play.

BK didn't use a 2 QB system in 2009. It's been 7 years and still the myth continues.

Pike was the starter and got hurt. Collaros took over. Pike's first game back Kelly used him a couple times in the red zone and Collaros played the rest of the game. Coincidentally, this was the first game when Kelly became a major choice for ND fans so many were watching and the 2 QB myth was born. The next game Pike regained his starting spot and Collaros went back to the bench.

The Champs Sports Bowl in 2011 and Music City Bowl in 2014 are two examples when Kelly has used a true 2 QB system. But nothing like that happened in 2009 and before that he had a lot of QB injuries at Cincinnati which folks (incorrectly) assumed he was using some sort of rotation at the position.

As far as I'm aware looking back to his GVSU days Kelly has never used a true 2 QB system.

 

[Praytorian]

Sorry to some of you, but I have always been a firm believer that you lose your spot due to an injury.

 

[dad4aa]

I've stayed out of this thread for awhile because I think we can win with either recruit. Have to comment now that so many people are saying "I heard Kizer is viewed as a d-bag", etc. etc. I don't have a lot of connections but I talked with a couple of people from the team after reading this and they said it was the opposite. They said Malik became a prima donna once Golson left and that DeShone is very humble and respectful to everyone on the team. Basically it all depends on who you talk to.

 

[Irish YJ]

I've stayed out of this thread for awhile because I think we can win with either recruit. Have to comment now that so many people are saying "I heard Kizer is viewed as a d-bag", etc. etc. I don't have a lot of connections but I talked with a couple of people from the team after reading this and they said it was the opposite. They said Malik became a prima donna once Golson left and that DeShone is very humble and respectful to everyone on the team. Basically it all depends on who you talk to.

Heard MZ was humble, down to earth, and driven. Heard that from Josh Dobbs who is incredibly humble and down to earth. You're probably right in that it just depends who you talk to. I'm sure MZ went through some ups and downs last year. It was pretty much a roller coaster for him (EG drama, starting and winning, getting hurt, seeing the success with DK). I'd have to think they both are busting ass, doing, and saying all the right things right now.