Offensive Coordinator Search

[Ricochet]

I think it's as simple as a Moorhead hire for CBK would be him giving up "his offense" wheras with Rees it's his offense.

 

[NDdomer2]

this thread continues to produce great takes

 

[ThePiombino]

Yes, continuity of BK's grab bag, ineffective offense (unless it is against lower competition) is very important. Hiring a known commodity is dumb and Kelly was wise to not truly entertain it because continuity is key.

Didn't they literally just set some sort of season-high for ppg?

 

[Cali_domer]

Didn't they literally just set some sort of season-high for ppg?

Look who we beat! Sorry that is not impressive. In difficult games his offense is consistently ineffective. Our best win was Navy.Will you brag to college football fans and say hey we beat Navy.

 

[BGIF]

I think it's as simple as a Moorhead hire for CBK would be him giving up "his offense" wheras with Rees it's his offense.

I liked the idea of a more experienced OC coming in on a transition basis to either mentor Rees or give him more time to develop himself. BUT NOT on a BVG basis of turning the program upside down where 2 years later players were still struggling with concepts.

Moorehead may well have more interested in ND but Moorhead wasn't coming to ND for a long term gig. ND OC was a placeholder until a HEAD coaching job becomes available then he'd be gone.

 

[stlnd01]

I'm not going to throw up my arms and say WTF? Moorhead may have had more interest in ND than Kelly had in Moorhead, but we don't know what was discussed in the phone calls. Moorhead may have had some demands like salary, title (AHC) and philosophy which BK didn't think would work. Maybe he didn't want to recruit?

Hopefully salary and title weren't real issues (we should be able to pay competitively, and who really cares about titles).
Re: recruiting, honestly the guy probably wouldn't be here long enough for it to be a major issue - a cycle or two - and we have enough good recruiters on the offensive staff that I'm not sure we needed a workhorse OC on that front.
To me the biggest - and most interesting - question on Moorhead v Rees comes down to scheme and continuity. If Moorhead wanted to run his "system" and install a whole new offense that doesn't necessarily fit our personnel, I can see that being a problem, and Rees being the wiser choice. If he was willing to be more flexible, play to the strengths of our third-year-starter QB, and mentor Rees for a couple of years, I think this may have been a mistake.
I guess we'll never know for sure, but I'd be curious how those conversations went.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'm not sure what the expectations are for some fans. I guess if ND doesn't win a national championship every year some just arent happy. 33-6 over the last 3 years. Things are better than ever and I trust Kelly more than your whiny ass hot takes. Thanks to those on this thread and Rees thread who actually bring solid info.

 

[irishnd31]

I'm not sure what the expectations are for some fans. I guess if ND doesn't win a national championship every year some just arent happy. 33-6 over the last 3 years. Things are better than ever and I trust Kelly more than your whiny ass hot takes. Thanks to those on this thread and Rees thread who actually bring solid info.

Agree.

 

[Free Manera]

I'm not sure what the expectations are for some fans. I guess if ND doesn't win a national championship every year some just arent happy. 33-6 over the last 3 years. Things are better than ever and I trust Kelly more than your whiny ass hot takes. Thanks to those on this thread and Rees thread who actually bring solid info.

Bro. There is so much strawman in here you could protect all the corn in Nebraska. No one needs to win a championship every year. How about one time in 10 years though? Beat a top 5 team once. Don't get blown out in a big game, once. Win a playoff game or legit bowl game, once.

Some of us are just sick of looking elite when it doesn't matter, and like an overrated paper tiger when it does.

33-6 would be great if the schedule looked liked LSU's this year. Instead the best win was Navy or I guess 5 loss Iowa State in a meaningless bowl game. I don't care about FEI or advanced stats. They lost 5 freaking games in a shit tier conference. Don't try to tell me they're good. They didn't have a single player that could start at ND. They were overmatched top to bottom and that game showed us nothing other than ND can beat teams with significantly less talent. We knew that already.

 

[ulukinatme]

Bro. There is so much strawman in here you could protect all the corn in Nebraska. No one needs to win a championship every year. How about one time in 10 years though? Beat a top 5 team once. Don't get blown out in a big game, once. Win a playoff game or legit bowl game, once.

Some of us are just sick of looking elite when it doesn't matter, and like an overrated paper tiger when it does.

33-6 would be great if the schedule looked liked LSU's this year. Instead the best win was Navy or I guess 5 loss Iowa State in a meaningless bowl game. I don't care about FEI or advanced stats. They lost 5 freaking games in a shit tier conference. Don't try to tell me they're good. They didn't have a single player that could start at ND. They were overmatched top to bottom and that game showed us nothing other than ND can beat teams with significantly less talent. We knew that already.

There's been something like 8 teams that have actually gone to the playoff since it was created, and only 4 different teams that have won it all. It's hard to compete with the true football factories, especially when you have a different set of rules than the rest. I've mentioned it before, but tOSU sat Joey Bosa one game for weed, Austin sat an entire season here. That's just the tip of the iceberg, you've got academics, self reporting every infraction we can find (And taking the punishments on the chin), and a plethora of other self imposed obstacles. It's a wonder we've been competing at all recently, we probably should be a perennial 8 win team.

I don't think any Irish fans were thrilled with the Iowa State matchup, but we sealed the deal when we floundered in another rain game in Ann Arbor. Iowa State was still a better team than their record showed. Three of their losses were by a combined 4 points, and those teams were Big 12 Champ Oklahoma, Big 12 runner up Baylor, and rival and ranked team Iowa. They're a team on the cusp, and they didn't have the talent to hang with us, but credit our guys and the coaches for not going to the bowl disappointed. They came to play, and many pundits expected a closer game.

 

[BabyIrish]

Bro. There is so much strawman in here you could protect all the corn in Nebraska. No one needs to win a championship every year. How about one time in 10 years though? Beat a top 5 team once. Don't get blown out in a big game, once. Win a playoff game or legit bowl game, once.

Some of us are just sick of looking elite when it doesn't matter, and like an overrated paper tiger when it does.

33-6 would be great if the schedule looked liked LSU's this year. Instead the best win was Navy or I guess 5 loss Iowa State in a meaningless bowl game. I don't care about FEI or advanced stats. They lost 5 freaking games in a shit tier conference. Don't try to tell me they're good. They didn't have a single player that could start at ND. They were overmatched top to bottom and that game showed us nothing other than ND can beat teams with significantly less talent. We knew that already.

2014 vs FSU was not a blowout, 2015 vs Clemson was not a blowout. 2017 vs Georgia was not a blowout. 2019 vs Georiga was not a blowout We throttled USC and NC St. in big games in 2017. We throttled Stanford in 2018 which at the time was a big game vs a top ten opponent. We beat a top ten opponent in Michigan in 2018 who was ranked in the top ten for most of the year.

I get that the losses to Miami Clemson and Michigan are frustrating. But don't let it warp your sense of reality about how ND has shown up in big games. Because we are not getting blown out in everyone and we are not losing in everyone.

 

[Irish in Ohio]

What is funny to me is some of the posters who want to take what Loy believes happened in this search ridicule him for throwing down crystal ball for recruits and call him out for that. Please stay the course in your overall opinion of him, not just when it suits your opinion.

 

[NDRock]

There's been something like 8 teams that have actually gone to the playoff since it was created, and only 4 different teams that have won it all. It's hard to compete with the true football factories, especially when you have a different set of rules than the rest. I've mentioned it before, but tOSU sat Joey Bosa one game for weed, Austin sat an entire season here. That's just the tip of the iceberg, you've got academics, self reporting every infraction we can find (And taking the punishments on the chin), and a plethora of other self imposed obstacles. It's a wonder we've been competing at all recently, we probably should be a perennial 8 win team.

I don't think any Irish fans were thrilled with the Iowa State matchup, but we sealed the deal when we floundered in another rain game in Ann Arbor. Iowa State was still a better team than their record showed. Three of their losses were by a combined 4 points, and those teams were Big 12 Champ Oklahoma, Big 12 runner up Baylor, and rival and ranked team Iowa. They're a team on the cusp, and they didn't have the talent to hang with us, but credit our guys and the coaches for not going to the bowl disappointed. They came to play, and many pundits expected a closer game.

I'd say this is the area where ND fans get frustrated. I can understand your perspective in which we've had a very good 3 year run. Nobody wants to back to the post Holtz days. I believe Kelly has taken the program up a notch the last three years to about the highest level you can be without being an elite program. A big reason for that jump was the hiring of Elko/Lea, Long, and Balis. IMO, the best at their positions we've had under Kelly. Many say these moves were forced on him, I'm not sure.

Now, with the program at its highest level, Kelly has a chance to bring in an experienced OC from the outside. Someone who can help mentor Rees and hopefully bring something to the offense and recruiting to get us closer to the next step. Instead, he seemingly chose the "easy" route. Going with the familiar. Something he has almost always done before (when not forced), with so-so results.

We'll be having the same argument next year when Lea leaves and he promotes from within (Elston, finally?).

 

[IrishLion]

What is funny to me is some of the posters who want to take what Loy believes happened in this search ridicule him for throwing down crystal ball for recruits and call him out for that. Please stay the course in your overall opinion of him, not just when it suits your opinion.

Sounds exactly like something Tom Loy would say...

 

[IrishLax]

Bro. There is so much strawman in here you could protect all the corn in Nebraska. No one needs to win a championship every year. How about one time in 10 years though? Beat a top 5 team once. Don't get blown out in a big game, once. Win a playoff game or legit bowl game, once.

Some of us are just sick of looking elite when it doesn't matter, and like an overrated paper tiger when it does.

33-6 would be great if the schedule looked liked LSU's this year. Instead the best win was Navy or I guess 5 loss Iowa State in a meaningless bowl game. I don't care about FEI or advanced stats. They lost 5 freaking games in a shit tier conference. Don't try to tell me they're good. They didn't have a single player that could start at ND. They were overmatched top to bottom and that game showed us nothing other than ND can beat teams with significantly less talent. We knew that already.

Yeah, that's simply not true.

In general, there's lots of stuff in this post that isn't true ("don't get blown out in a big game, once"... when any casual fan can give a half dozen examples off the top of their head of that not happening, etc.).

 

[NDRock]

What is funny to me is some of the posters who want to take what Loy believes happened in this search ridicule him for throwing down crystal ball for recruits and call him out for that. Please stay the course in your overall opinion of him, not just when it suits your opinion.

What exactly did happen?

 

[irishnd31]

Sounds exactly like something Tom Loy would say...

LMAO

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Bro. There is so much strawman in here you could protect all the corn in Nebraska. No one needs to win a championship every year. How about one time in 10 years though? Beat a top 5 team once. Don't get blown out in a big game, once. Win a playoff game or legit bowl game, once.

Some of us are just sick of looking elite when it doesn't matter, and like an overrated paper tiger when it does.

33-6 would be great if the schedule looked liked LSU's this year. Instead the best win was Navy or I guess 5 loss Iowa State in a meaningless bowl game. I don't care about FEI or advanced stats. They lost 5 freaking games in a shit tier conference. Don't try to tell me they're good. They didn't have a single player that could start at ND. They were overmatched top to bottom and that game showed us nothing other than ND can beat teams with significantly less talent. We knew that already.

So you dont like where ND is as a program right now?

 

[Free Manera]

So you dont like where ND is as a program right now?

I feel like ND is content with where it is right now, and I don't like that. They say the right things to make it seem like they are "taking the next step". But I feel like they are perfectly fine with last year being the ceiling. Make the playoffs, get blasted, call it a successful year because 12-0.

 

[Free Manera]

Yeah, that's simply not true.

In general, there's lots of stuff in this post that isn't true ("don't get blown out in a big game, once"... when any casual fan can give a half dozen examples off the top of their head of that not happening, etc.).

Sure there was hyperbole in the post. But the point is, ND is stagnant. Is the program in a better place than 2012 when everyone admitted "we have a long way to go?" That year ended with getting the doors blown off, just like last year did. We aren't closer to the top tier. And it feels like a lot of people don't care.

 

[BobbyMac]

I feel like ND is content with where it is right now, and I don't like that. They say the right things to make it seem like they are "taking the next step". But I feel like they are perfectly fine with last year being the ceiling. Make the playoffs, get blasted, call it a successful year because 12-0.

So if ND changed all the things holding them back from winning a National Championship, you'd be ok with ND not being ND any longer. You're obviously not an alum.

 

[zelezo vlk]

So who to target for TE and CB coach?

 

[Free Manera]

So if ND changed all the things holding them back from winning a National Championship, you'd be ok with ND not being ND any longer. You're obviously not an alum.

Many people have said over the past several years that admission requirements are not the hindrance that people think they are. Find a way to recruit better and coach better, that's all.

Alienating people that are not alums is probably not advisable, considering that demographic probably comprises more than half of this board.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

“When I asked him what his expectations were for Tommy, he just looked at me and said there were none,” Orlovsky said. “It wasn’t in a negative way. It was just that he expected that Tommy would do well. You could tell because there was this smile on his face, and I don’t want to sound corny about this, but it was almost like how a parent talks about his child. He just smiled and said he knew Tommy would be good. He said, ‘He was born to do this.’

https://theathletic.com/1534308/2020/01/14/brian-kelly-tom-rees-notre-dame-offensive-coordinator/

This is exactly what worries me. It's bad enough, imo, if Kelly spurned an experienced and highly regarded OC in Moorhead. But this sort of thing doesn't make it sound like he did so for levelheaded reasons.

 

[BabyIrish]

Sure there was hyperbole in the post. But the point is, ND is stagnant. Is the program in a better place than 2012 when everyone admitted "we have a long way to go?" That year ended with getting the doors blown off, just like last year did. We aren't closer to the top tier. And it feels like a lot of people don't care.

I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that ND is stagnant. In the last three years, we have played 39 games. We have won 33 of them and been competitive in 37 of them (yes I count Clemson as competitive). We just signed two 5 star talents (Johnson and Tyree) and you could argue that at least 3 others have the tools to be 5-star talents (Baker, Bothelo, and Mayer). 2021 recruiting is off to the best start ever under Brian Kelly and our assistant coaches have never been better. That's a lot of upside to me and a place where the arrow is pointing up.

 

[NDohio]

I feel like ND is content with where it is right now, and I don't like that. They say the right things to make it seem like they are "taking the next step". But I feel like they are perfectly fine with last year being the ceiling. Make the playoffs, get blasted, call it a successful year because 12-0.

So you don't consider the uptick in recruiting this past year and what next year looks like as progress?

You think BK's comments at the bowl game about making some changes to the program that will help ND get into the top five in recruiting classes is lip service?

I think the fact that recruiting has improved prior to BK making these statements makes it more than just saying the right things.

 

[Irish#1]

I feel like ND is content with where it is right now, and I don't like that. They say the right things to make it seem like they are "taking the next step". But I feel like they are perfectly fine with last year being the ceiling. Make the playoffs, get blasted, call it a successful year because 12-0.

Better get some Zoloft for those feelings. What would ever give you the feeling BK is happy with getting blasted? The last three years, he's more than said the right things, he's made quite a few changes (staff, recruiting, facilities) to improve the program and it's showed by the record the last three years. That doesn't mean he's content and I've not heard or read anything that tells me he's satisfied. Is he happy with the direction the program is headed? Sure, but that doesn't mean he's content.

 

[BobbyMac]

Many people have said over the past several years that admission requirements are not the hindrance that people think they are. Find a way to recruit better and coach better, that's all.

Alienating people that are not alums is probably not advisable, considering that demographic probably comprises more than half of this board.

I'm not an alum, I played against ND.

But I find the win a NC by any means sentiment to be lacking with the alums I know.

 

[stlnd01]

I'm not an alum, I played against ND.

But I find the win a NC by any means sentiment to be lacking with the alums I know.

Like this one.

But regardless of alum status, yes I would consider going 12-0 to be a “successful” year. Obviously 14-0 is preferable. But if you’re pissy about winning 10, 11, 12 games a year, 1997 through 2010 - not to mention all but six or eight other programs in college football right now - would love to trade places.

 

[matman4593]

Can't overlook how this hire was able to retain talent on the staff. Rees is a rising star and, while the hire may be a bit premature to some, we keep him on staff. The hire also promotes Taylor to run game coordinator and keeping him happy and on the staff is crucial if we want to keep adding 5 star RBs