Offensive Coordinator Search

[stpeteirish]

So who to target for TE and CB coach?

Prister floated Denbrock as a potential tight ends hire in a free article today.

Not sure how I feel on that. Would be an adjustment for Denbrock for sure, having a former player above you in the chain of command.

Would ND pay a position coach more than Cincy pays a coordinator?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Prister floated Denbrock as a potential tight ends hire in a free article today.

Not sure how I feel on that. Would be an adjustment for Denbrock for sure, having a former player above you in the chain of command.

Would ND pay a position coach more than Cincy pays a coordinator?

Why on Earth would Denbrock do that?

 

[ulukinatme]

https://theathletic.com/1534308/2020/01/14/brian-kelly-tom-rees-notre-dame-offensive-coordinator/

This is exactly what worries me. It's bad enough, imo, if Kelly spurned an experienced and highly regarded OC in Moorhead. But this sort of thing doesn't make it sound like he did so for levelheaded reasons.

Moorhead didn't make it past the phone call phase, either for his part or the university's. Kelly had opportunities to hire someone else, yet they still chose Tommy. What should that tell you? They know Rees, both his strengths and any flaws he may or may not have. If he had a poor work ethic or poor coaching skills do you think they would have hired him? Would you take a chance on a young commodity like Rees if you didn't think he could do the job? Why would BK risk his job and the jobs of the rest of the staff if he didn't think Rees could cut it? You're going about this all wrong.

 

[NDdomer2]

I feel like ND is content with where it is right now, and I don't like that. They say the right things to make it seem like they are "taking the next step". But I feel like they are perfectly fine with last year being the ceiling. Make the playoffs, get blasted, call it a successful year because 12-0.

Lol did you really just downplay going 12-0? You literally can't do any better. If the floor of this program is 10 wins and we're consistently putting ourselves in the playoffs eventually were going to win some.

 

[NDRock]

Moorhead didn't make it past the phone call phase, either for his part or the university's. Kelly had opportunities to hire someone else, yet they still chose Tommy. What should that tell you? They know Rees, both his strengths and any flaws he may or may not have. If he had a poor work ethic or poor coaching skills do you think they would have hired him? Would you take a chance on a young commodity like Rees if you didn't think he could do the job? Why would BK risk his job and the jobs of the rest of the staff if he didn't think Rees could cut it? You're going about this all wrong.

Kind of a weird argument. Obviously he thinks Rees can do the job, that’s why he hired him. He also thought BVG, Scott Booker, Molner...and other coaches who didn’t work out could do the job. I don’t blame people for questioning this hire based on Rees’ experience and Kelly’s past track record.

 

[IrishLax]

Kind of a weird argument. Obviously he thinks Rees can do the job, that’s why he hired him. He also thought BVG, Scott Booker, Molner...and other coaches who didn’t work out could do the job. I don’t blame people for questioning this hire based on Rees’ experience and Kelly’s past track record.

Post-2016, has he suffered any fools? Over the last four years, every single under-performing coach... either in recruiting or positional coaching... has been replaced. No head coach goes 100% on hires, but his hit rate has been high since they cleaned house *and* he has show the willingness to move on from people.

 

[IrishLax]

https://theathletic.com/1534308/2020/01/14/brian-kelly-tom-rees-notre-dame-offensive-coordinator/

This is exactly what worries me. It's bad enough, imo, if Kelly spurned an experienced and highly regarded OC in Moorhead. But this sort of thing doesn't make it sound like he did so for levelheaded reasons.

He didn't spurn anyone. He reached out to a LOT of people. If Chad Morris, Joe Moorhead, etc. were willing to come here then he would've hired them. This stuff about "Moorhead being more interested in ND than ND in Moorhead" has a lot of assumptions baked into it. First, it implies that if ND made him an offer he would've jumped at it. I don't think that's true, I think Oregon was always his front runner and there's a reason he spent three days out there before circling back around on ND. He easily could've just been trying to use ND as leverage for more money, this is commonplace in coaching and we've seen it first hand. It's doubly plausible when you consider the agent connections. Second, it implies that ND wasn't interested in Moorhead because they didn't like Moorhead. That is certainly not true. If anything, it would be conditions and fit that would be the issue. Someone like Moorhead is going to demand autonomy, and it's reasonable to question the wisdom of blowing everything up with a 3 year returning starter at QB who has played/practiced in the same system with the same terminology for 4 years.

It is fair to question whether or not declining to go "all in" on an elite coach like Moorhead was smart for the long term success of Notre Dame football. It is not fair to characterize the coaching search as a "dog and pony show" as people here and elsewhere have, and it's also not fair to act like the decision was made on laziness, emotion, favoritism, etc. like many ND fans have.

 

[OCIrish]

Something that I find astonishing about everyone's assumptions on Tommy and how inexperienced he is.....yes, he's not been calling plays as an OC for very damned long, however, and I said this the other night: Tommy comes from a football family. His dad has spent most of his career in the NFL......Tommy Rees has been reading defenses for a very long time. I don't feel like, looking back that most of Tommy's mistakes at the QB position were from making the wrong read, but more to the point of not physically being able to do what was needed ie: throwing deeper, or a tighter window or......just making certain throws that some QB's were born never being able to make in the first place. I guess this is the one time (outside of Clark Lea) I'm overly excited about an up and coming coach getting the gig at ND and looking forward to our offense in the next few years doing some big things.

 

[Circa]

I think it's as simple as a Moorhead hire for CBK would be him giving up "his offense" wheras with Rees it's his offense.

Why do people think Brian Kelly would try to undermine our team with.....


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Silly Isn't the right word, but appropriate.

 

[ulukinatme]

The sad truth is if Tommy had never played for this university, few people would have a problem with him taking this position. There are a number of young guys his age that have been OCs for schools and it's worked out just fine. Most of the people that have a problem with the hire are the same people that dogged on Tommy for some perceived slight because he was the best QB we had on roster some years. Anyone who says otherwise is very likely lying to themselves and the others. If Tommy was partially responsible for the offensive resurgence late in the season, hot young coach, and he was an alum from say...Boise State...tell me why he's not fit to call the plays.

 

[Circa]

The sad truth is if Tommy had never played for this university, few people would have a problem with him taking this position. There are a number of young guys his age that have been OCs for schools and it's worked out just fine. Most of the people that have a problem with the hire are the same people that dogged on Tommy for some perceived slight because he was the best QB we had on roster some years. Anyone who says otherwise is very likely lying to themselves and the others. If Tommy was partially responsible for the offensive resurgence late in the season, hot young coach, and he was an alum from say...Boise State...tell me why he's not fit to call the plays.

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[NDohio]

I would think that a big part of the conversation with Moorehead was about the rest of the offensive staff. Someone like Moorehead most likely wants to have some say on who the staff around him will be - ND's offensive staff is mostly in place and I am sure BK wasn't willing to give on that.

 

[NDRock]

Post-2016, has he suffered any fools? Over the last four years, every single under-performing coach... either in recruiting or positional coaching... has been replaced. No head coach goes 100% on hires, but his hit rate has been high since they cleaned house *and* he has show the willingness to move on from people.

Agree that Kelly has brought in some good coaches. Some would argue he would not have brought in people from the outside after 2016 if he wasn’t forced to. I just don’t think it’s crazy for people on here to be skeptical of this hire based on Rees’ experience and Kelly’s track record of hiring of “his people”. No way can anyone objectively say this is a slam dunk hire. Doesn’t mean it won’t turn out that way. I personally think it will be good in the short term (next year) but am a little more cautious about post 2020.

 

[greyhammer90]

Post-2016, has he suffered any fools? Over the last four years, every single under-performing coach... either in recruiting or positional coaching... has been replaced. No head coach goes 100% on hires, but his hit rate has been high since they cleaned house *and* he has show the willingness to move on from people.

This.

It's weird to me as well that people are saying the Rees hire shows that "we're comfortable where we are." If you're comfortable where you are, you don't fire your OC that's averaging 37 ppg. Keeping him and ignoring that he's not going to get you over the hill is the easy call to make if you're content to get 10 wins every season and ride out your career.

 

[Luckylucci]

Agree that Kelly has brought in some good coaches. Some would argue he would not have brought in people from the outside after 2016 if he wasn’t forced to. I just don’t think it’s crazy for people on here to be skeptical of this hire based on Rees’ experience and Kelly’s track record of hiring of “his people”. No way can anyone objectively say this is a slam dunk hire. Doesn’t mean it won’t turn out that way. I personally think it will be good in the short term (next year) but am a little more cautious about post 2020.

It seems convenient, when speaking about his people, to leave out Chuck Martin, Mike Denbrock, and Mike Elston. Or, keeping Alford on staff, identifying LaFlauer very early on, etc. All pre-2016 coaching hires. Some of those were Kelly guys and some of those were decisions pre-2016 with very good coaches. Not all of the 'Kelly guys' are bad coaches.

 

[Luckylucci]

We went 12-0 in 2012, during the regular season, with the best defense in the country and a RS freshman QB. There was a lot of very good coaching going on, across the board. Losing to Bama to go 12-1 doesn't make that less unique or important.

 

[Domina Nostra]

We went 12-0 in 2012, during the regular season, with the best defense in the country and a RS freshman QB. There was a lot of very good coaching going on, across the board. Losing to Bama to go 12-1 doesn't make that less unique or important.

Yeah, it was talent, not game plan, that killed us in that game.

We had probably 15 very good starters, but very little after that.

 

[IrishLax]

It seems convenient, when speaking about his people, to leave out Chuck Martin, Mike Denbrock, and Mike Elston. Or, keeping Alford on staff, identifying LaFlauer very early on, etc. All pre-2016 coaching hires. Some of those were Kelly guys and some of those were decisions pre-2016 with very good coaches. Not all of the 'Kelly guys' are bad coaches.

More or less, people are still fixated on BVG and Longo. Who were both disasters, and rightfully almost got Kelly fired.

Beyond that, the narrative about Kelly only hiring "his people" -- or "his people" being convenient, crappy coaches -- is basically total bullsh*t.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Yeah, it was talent, not game plan, that killed us in that game.

We had probably 15 very good starters, but very little after that.

Agree, the depth across the board is muuuuch better now. The high end talent though? We still need some work there. It may be on its way.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

Post-2016, has he suffered any fools? Over the last four years, every single under-performing coach... either in recruiting or positional coaching... has been replaced. No head coach goes 100% on hires, but his hit rate has been high since they cleaned house *and* he has show the willingness to move on from people.

The answer to this question depends a lot on what you think of Jeff Quinn.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Keith Gilmore wasn't great either.

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[Luckylucci]

Keith Gilmore wasn't great either.

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Let me preface this by saying I don't think he was a great coach but I also don't know if that was all on him. In trying to pull from the old school rumor index, I believe he was one of the coaches that had the biggest problem with BVG. And, he was one of if not the only defensive coach that didn't get a chance to coach post BVG. I'm extremely glad we went back to Elston, no question, but I'll never say a coach under BVG was bad until I see them coach without BVG. He was just too much of a cancer.

 

[stlnd01]

FWIW looks like Gilmore landed at Colorado State and was their DL coach the last couple years. Unclear what’s next with their coach jumping to South Carolina.

It’s astounding, in retrospect, how terrible Van Gorder was. His awfulness in so many aspects of coaching colors this entire conversation.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

FWIW looks like Gilmore landed at Colorado State and was their DL coach the last couple years. Unclear what’s next with their coach jumping to South Carolina.

It’s astounding, in retrospect, how terrible Van Gorder was. His awfulness in so many aspects of coaching colors this entire conversation.

He had us all fooled after scUM in 2014. 37-0 awarded him the September Broyles Award.

 

[NDdomer2]

More or less, people are still fixated on BVG and Longo. Who were both disasters, and rightfully almost got Kelly fired.

Beyond that, the narrative about Kelly only hiring "his people" -- or "his people" being convenient, crappy coaches -- is basically total bullsh*t.

Longo was fine to start but his personal issues ended up getting in the way right?

 

[NDRock]

Keith Gilmore wasn't great either.

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Scott Booker was the worst. Doing well these days with the Titans.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Scott Booker was the worst. Doing well these days with the Titans.

Booker was set up to fail, IMO.

 

[NDRock]

More or less, people are still fixated on BVG and Longo. Who were both disasters, and rightfully almost got Kelly fired.

Beyond that, the narrative about Kelly only hiring "his people" -- or "his people" being convenient, crappy coaches -- is basically total bullsh*t.

It would be interesting to look back at all the hires and see how they worked out. I think the majority of his hires were good. There are a couple of things that are interesting. First, the narrative here is that he was "forced" to make outside hires after 2016. Is that true? If so, that's a pretty good indication that his bosses didn't exactly trust him. Also, those hires ended up being the best at their position (IMO) of his tenure.

OC - Long
DC - Elko/Lea
ST - Polian
S&C - Balis

Obviously Kelly hired all of them and he should get credit for that. The question is, would he have if not forced. That brings speculation to some. The other is the Quinn hiring at OL. Many don't like him and that affects their view as it was another "national" search where his buddy was chosen.

This would be my worst at each position, IMO

OC - Martin
DC - BVG
ST - Booker
S&C - Longo

So, IMO the best all came from the outside, the worst were "in house" hires. Doesn't mean every outside hire has been good or every in house bad.

 

[NDRock]

Booker was set up to fail, IMO.

Probably. He would have had a better chance only coaching one position group.

 

[Luckylucci]

Longo was fine to start but his personal issues ended up getting in the way right?

Basically. He was a huge upgrade over his predecessor when Kelly and Company first got here. Players were quite vocal about his positive impact on turning around the program from 2009-12.

Crazy to think that in the 3 years before BK got here ND won just 16 games. Folks are now pissed because we only won 33 in the last 3, lol.