All Things SkunkBear

[IrishLax]

The only problem here is that UCF STILL would have been left out of an 8-team playoff last year. The committee had them ranked 12th (!) in the final rankings that determined the playoff and the NY6 bowls.

That's why I advocate for 5 conference champs, 2 at large, and 1 for the highest-rated Group-of-5 team.

Honestly, fuck UCF tho. They played one Power 5 team all of last year. One! And it was freaking Maryland.

They have 8 conference games and with those other 4 they should be trying to schedule top tier Power 5 schools if they want a shot at the playoffs. Don't play nobody and the bellyache about getting left out.

5 conference champs, 3 at-large teams. If you can't earn your way into one of those 3 at-large spots as a Group of 5 school then tough beans.

 

[IrishLion]

Honestly, fuck UCF tho. They played one Power 5 team all of last year. One! And it was freaking Maryland.

They have 8 conference games and with those other 4 they should be trying to schedule top tier Power 5 schools if they want a shot at the playoffs. Don't play nobody and the bellyache about getting left out.

5 conference champs, 3 at-large teams. If you can't earn your way into one of those 3 at-large spots as a Group of 5 school then tough beans.

Would it have changed your mind at all had their game against GT not been cancelled and they won?

Idk if it makes much of a difference in my mind, but curious as to how "number of wins against power 5 opponents" compares to "beating top tier power 5 teams" in your mind, because it's not always easy for a team like UCF to get a big-name team on their schedule.

UC has been ass since 2015, but scUM tried to cancel their 2017 matchup several times between '15 and '16 anyway, even though UC clearly would not be a threat. I can imagine how that extrapolates to group of 5 teams that are known threats.

 

[ACamp1900]

I would love to play UCFs schedule, we'd be in the playoff every year and heads would explode... eventually we'd break through and win the damn thing too and then no one would care what schedule we play.

 

[connor_in]

this guy just keeps trolling scUM so hard...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Congratulations to <a href="https://twitter.com/UMichFootball?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@UMichFootball</a>. Today marks 5,000 days since they clinched their last Big Ten Title 〽️&#55357;&#56613; <a href="https://t.co/689uzXlt7z">pic.twitter.com/689uzXlt7z</a></p>— The Black Sheep MSU (@BlackSheep_MSU) <a href="https://twitter.com/BlackSheep_MSU/status/1021825940744232960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 24, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[IrishLax]

Would it have changed your mind at all had their game against GT not been cancelled and they won?

Idk if it makes much of a difference in my mind, but curious as to how "number of wins against power 5 opponents" compares to "beating top tier power 5 teams" in your mind, because it's not always easy for a team like UCF to get a big-name team on their schedule.

UC has been ass since 2015, but scUM tried to cancel their 2017 matchup several times between '15 and '16 anyway, even though UC clearly would not be a threat. I can imagine how that extrapolates to group of 5 teams that are known threats.

The way I see it we -- as Notre Dame fans -- can't harp on "strength of schedule should matter" while also supporting teams like UCF getting a shot at the playoffs "because they're undefeated and it's not their fault they play a weak schedule."

If they had pounded Georgia Tech, who is usually a middle tier ACC team and goes about .500 in conference, it absolutely would've changed my opinion. But the reality is we don't even know if they would've won that game, much less pounded Georgia Tech. I expect teams like UCF to try to fill as many of their 4 open dates with quality opponents as possible... when it's only one Power 5 bottom dweller I don't really care whose fault it is that's not a schedule that deserves consideration for inclusion in the playoffs.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

The way I see it we -- as Notre Dame fans -- can't harp on "strength of schedule should matter" while also supporting teams like UCF getting a shot at the playoffs "because they're undefeated and it's not their fault they play a weak schedule."

If they had pounded Georgia Tech, who is usually a middle tier ACC team and goes about .500 in conference, it absolutely would've changed my opinion. But the reality is we don't even know if they would've won that game, much less pounded Georgia Tech. I expect teams like UCF to try to fill as many of their 4 open dates with quality opponents as possible... when it's only one Power 5 bottom dweller I don't really care whose fault it is that's not a schedule that deserves consideration for inclusion in the playoffs.

Word. Expand to 8 but no automatic bids

 

[IrishLion]

The way I see it we -- as Notre Dame fans -- can't harp on "strength of schedule should matter" while also supporting teams like UCF getting a shot at the playoffs "because they're undefeated and it's not their fault they play a weak schedule."

If they had pounded Georgia Tech, who is usually a middle tier ACC team and goes about .500 in conference, it absolutely would've changed my opinion. But the reality is we don't even know if they would've won that game, much less pounded Georgia Tech. I expect teams like UCF to try to fill as many of their 4 open dates with quality opponents as possible... when it's only one Power 5 bottom dweller I don't really care whose fault it is that's not a schedule that deserves consideration for inclusion in the playoffs.

I agree with this based on the current system. I don't think UCF should've been a top 4 team last year, but I also think it was a lowball move for the committee to have them all the way down at 12. The fabled "eye test" was enough for me to know that they could put up points on pretty much anybody not named Bama.

But in an 8-team playoff, I don't think we as ND fans would need to harp on or worry so much about SOS, and I think even Savvy Jack would dial back the aggressive and ridiculous scheduling procedures, because ND probably gets in at 10-2 most years in an 8-team playoff. The only exceptions would be the weird years (like last year) where a conference has multiple teams with 1 or less losses, or in years where ND's two losses were to the only good teams they played.

 

[phork]

I don't agree with letting in 5 conference champs. There are years where conferences are garbage, or the team that wins it lucks out. For instance say PennSt beats OSU but also loses 2 out of conference games. Still wins the BIGEast, still wins the BIG title while 11-1 OSU sits at home? Sorry doesn't work. Conferences should be eliminated.

 

[greyhammer90]

I don't agree with letting in 5 conference champs. There are years where conferences are garbage, or the team that wins it lucks out. For instance say PennSt beats OSU but also loses 2 out of conference games. Still wins the BIGEast, still wins the BIG title while 11-1 OSU sits at home? Sorry doesn't work. Conferences should be eliminated.

Sounds like 11-1 OSU lost in round 1 of their playoffs. If we're going to give the committee more structure so they have less of an opportunity to be biased/dumb, and keep it realistic, and reward season long play, and guarantee some level of quality, and try to eliminate geographic bias, then conference champions almost certainly need to be included. Saying that conferences need to be eliminated is like saying it needs to rain gumballs, it will never happen.

 

[Irish#1]

I would love to play UCFs schedule, we'd be in the playoff every year and heads would explode... eventually we'd break through and win the damn thing too and then no one would care what schedule we play.

True


Last night I had gutters installed on the new pavilion. One of the guys had obviously seen the ND decal on my truck and says, "So, you ready for the Michigan Notre Dame game"? Without hesitation I blurted out "YEP". He then says, "I am too. I'm a Michigan fan", to which I replied, "Sorry about that, but there's a cure for it". His helper busts out laughing. We talk a little more then ask him his opinion on Harbaugh. He says, "I think he's good for the program. He's just had some bad luck so far". I replied, "You sound just like a Michigan fan". His buddy is LAO.

The funny part is he said he's been to more ND games than scUM games! I think I can convert him. lol

 

[NDohio]

I don't agree with letting in 5 conference champs. There are years where conferences are garbage, or the team that wins it lucks out. For instance say PennSt beats OSU but also loses 2 out of conference games. Still wins the BIGEast, still wins the BIG title while 11-1 OSU sits at home? Sorry doesn't work. Conferences should be eliminated.

No, OSU is then one of the at-large bids. That's why this works. If one, or even two, conference champions aren't really the best team in their conference the at-large bids are available for the team that the committee thinks is the best team in the conference to be in the playoffs. Then ND is the third at-large team...

 

[phork]

Thats not the point. The point is not all conference champions deserve a spot. I'll admit its a rarity but I don't like the autobid.

 

[beryirish]

SIAP but I'm not a fan of champions are automatics either echoing what Phork said.

Plus that would go against the concept of the current playoffs. "The Best 4 Teams".

If you push it to 8 team (which i'm a fan of) then it should still be the same concept. The best 8 teams are selected. If a conference is completely out of it or a 12-0 UCF, so be it.

 

[Irish#1]

Thats not the point. The point is not all conference champions deserve a spot. I'll admit its a rarity but I don't like the autobid.

SIAP but I'm not a fan of champions are automatics either echoing what Phork said.

Plus that would go against the concept of the current playoffs. "The Best 4 Teams".

If you push it to 8 team (which i'm a fan of) then it should still be the same concept. The best 8 teams are selected. If a conference is completely out of it or a 12-0 UCF, so be it.

The problem with "best" team is it is still subjective and you'll still have dissatisfied fans/schools. We have that scenario now with four teams. Expanding to 8 (which I previously stated I was for) only guarantees you do get the best 4, 5 or maybe 6 schools, but 6, 7 & 8 will still be open for debate.

 

[BobbyMac]

True

Last night I had gutters installed on the new pavilion. One of the guys had obviously seen the ND decal on my truck and says, "So, you ready for the Michigan Notre Dame game"? Without hesitation I blurted out "YEP". He then says, "I am too. I'm a Michigan fan", to which I replied, "Sorry about that, but there's a cure for it". His helper busts out laughing. We talk a little more then ask him his opinion on Harbaugh. He says, "I think he's good for the program. He's just had some bad luck so far". I replied, "You sound just like a Michigan fan". His buddy is LAO.

The funny part is he said he's been to more ND games than scUM games! I think I can convert him. lol

Your future courtesy of Skunkbear Gutters.

 

[greyhammer90]

SIAP but I'm not a fan of champions are automatics either echoing what Phork said.

Plus that would go against the concept of the current playoffs. "The Best 4 Teams".

If you push it to 8 team (which i'm a fan of) then it should still be the same concept. The best 8 teams are selected. If a conference is completely out of it or a 12-0 UCF, so be it.

"Best" is a terrible qualifier and the statement of "best 4" is the most damaging statement made of the playoff era. It basically guarantees that bias and the "eye-test" will rule the day.

College football is such a jumbled mess of styles and teams that hardly ever play each other that the most efficient way to determine who the "best" team is would be to take the "best" teams from each geographical area of the country and have them play each other in a tournament. The structure for determining who the "best" team is from each geographical area is built into conferences.

To be honest I really don't care if Auburn gets left out one year because Oklahoma State won the Big 12. Auburn showed that they weren't the best team in their geographic area by not winning the SEC, so they have no leg to stand on when complaining that they didn't get into the tournament to decide who the best team in the country was. Not only that, but the 3 at-large bids are a built in corrector for this.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Thats not the point. The point is not all conference champions deserve a spot. I'll admit its a rarity but I don't like the autobid.

Literally every other major sport in America has a format where the division or conference champion gets in. Even NCAAM BB has this auto-bid. It provides structure and I think it would work extremely well in this case, with still 3 at-large bids in. The playoff committee will still have a job to do to make themselves feel important to get those last 3 chosen.

 

[IrishLax]

"Best" is a terrible qualifier and the statement of "best 4" is the most damaging statement made of the playoff era. It basically guarantees that bias and the "eye-test" will rule the day.

College football is such a jumbled mess of styles and teams that hardly ever play each other that the most efficient way to determine who the "best" team is would be to take the "best" teams from each geographical area of the country and have them play each other in a tournament. The structure for determining who the "best" team is from each geographical area is built into conferences.

To be honest I really don't care if Auburn gets left out one year because Oklahoma State won the Big 12. Auburn showed that they weren't the best team in their geographic area by not winning the SEC, so they have no leg to stand on when complaining that they didn't get into the tournament to decide who the best team in the country was. Not only that, but the 3 at-large bids are a built in corrector for this.

Having conference champions get auto-bids also makes they conference championship games way more intriguing for the average/neutral fan. Every other NCAA sport has conference champions get auto-bids.

So, like you said, it means 5 of the 8 spots go to teams that earned it on the field with no need for any sort of eye test or committee. And then you get 3 more teams which equates for your Bama last year or Ohio State that was left out a couple years back. I bet if you looked at an 8 team playoff with 5 auto-bids there is still "controversy" over spots 7/8 versus those outside the bubble but in general it's going to mitigate the amount of "glaring omissions" of teams that can legitimately win the title.

And finally, auto-bids will encourage more teams to play hard OOC opponents because they know they can still earn their way in through conference play.

 

[Rack Em]

And finally, auto-bids will encourage more teams to play hard OOC opponents because they know they can still earn their way in through conference play.

Wouldn't this encourage the opposite in some cases? If I'm Wisconsin and I play in the shitty half of the B1G, I'm going to schedule high school JV teams for OOC games so I'm rested for the conference schedule. If I can go 8-1 in conference games, win my half of the conference, then all I have to do is prepare/execute 1 good game against OSU and I'm in the playoff.

 

[IrishLion]

Having conference champions get auto-bids also makes they conference championship games way more intriguing for the average/neutral fan. Every other NCAA sport has conference champions get auto-bids.

So, like you said, it means 5 of the 8 spots go to teams that earned it on the field with no need for any sort of eye test or committee. And then you get 3 more teams which equates for your Bama last year or Ohio State that was left out a couple years back. I bet if you looked at an 8 team playoff with 5 auto-bids there is still "controversy" over spots 7/8 versus those outside the bubble but in general it's going to mitigate the amount of "glaring omissions" of teams that can legitimately win the title.

And finally, auto-bids will encourage more teams to play hard OOC opponents because they know they can still earn their way in through conference play.

I love the idea of a 9-3 Georgia Tech sneaking into the ACC championship game because of chaos in their division, and then pulling a shocker on 11-1 Clemson to get into the playoff.

Of course, that makes ND's road tougher because a team like Clemson (or Bama last year, or Penn State the year before) takes one of the at-large spots, but college football is great because of chaos, and strange underdogs are peak chaos.

 

[zelezo vlk]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/titans-make-taylor-lewan-richest-ol-in-nfl-history-give-him-80m-five-year-extension/

Hopefully Lax can come in and remind us why we hate this guy so much

 

[dublinirish]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...-l-j-scott-michigan-little-sisters/843442002/

 

[BobbyMac]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/titans-make-taylor-lewan-richest-ol-in-nfl-history-give-him-80m-five-year-extension/

Hopefully Lax can come in and remind us why we hate this guy so much

I lived in the Chaparral district when Lewan & Craig Roh were in HS. I'll tell you why I hate 'em, Michigan got them and ND ends up with the next Chaptown All-American, Mr. Neal.

 

[greyhammer90]

I was extremely skeptical of Lewan's abilities as a LT at the next level based on some serious inconsistencies while he was in college but he's turned into one of the most consistent players in the franchise. I don't really like the dude as a Titans fan, but he was a great pick from a football perspective.

 

[TomHaverford]

I was extremely skeptical of Lewan's abilities as a LT at the next level based on some serious inconsistencies while he was in college but he's turned into one of the most consistent players in the franchise. I don't really like the dude as a Titans fan, but he was a great pick from a football perspective.

I don't think anybody should've ever been skeptical of his abilities as a LT coming out of college. He was a hell of a player. He wasn't quite Jake Long, but he was the closest thing that Michigan had had since. What they should've been skeptical of was his character/personality. Tons of red flags there. And the guy was maybe the most penalized OL that I've ever seen at Michigan. And they weren't holding or off-sides calls. He was good for a personal foul a game it seemed like. I won't say dirty player- but he was damn close to it. There's no need to go that route when you're that good. He was suffering from Ndamukong Suh syndrome in college.

 

[fightingirish26]

I'll say he was a dirty player

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kareem Walker is headed to Fort Scott Community College (and so is Ahmir Mitchell) <a href="https://t.co/On0C7Xzgeh">https://t.co/On0C7Xzgeh</a></p>— Nick Baumgardner (@nickbaumgardner) <a href="https://twitter.com/nickbaumgardner/status/1023761044748034048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jim Harbaugh remains a total weirdo: <a href="https://t.co/CC3ZJtOSz3">https://t.co/CC3ZJtOSz3</a> <a href="https://t.co/t4pAQgP9iA">pic.twitter.com/t4pAQgP9iA</a></p>— Deadspin (@Deadspin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Deadspin/status/1023982600631791617?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[Valpodoc85]

Meat Chicken doesn't like people eating chicken, coincidence? I think not!

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It's not the program or the school that we don't like <a href="https://t.co/AYGXUer3wz">https://t.co/AYGXUer3wz</a></p>— JOK (@JohnOKorn) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnOKorn/status/1024083989429202945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My earlier tweet had nothing to do with <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachJim4UM?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CoachJim4UM</a></p>— JOK (@JohnOKorn) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnOKorn/status/1024123373725642752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And by the looks of my mentions, I think I proved my point</p>— JOK (@JohnOKorn) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnOKorn/status/1024123464322633729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
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