'21 CA QB Tyler Buchner (ND FB -> Bama FB -> ND LAX???)

[BobbyMac]

Tyler James admitted he was the “least articulate Tyler” on that podcast.

Thank goodness he plans on enrolling early. I think that’s what put Jurkovec behind the eight ball.

I got burned at the stake by my IE brethren for being upset that Phil decided to play basketball and not EE. "Let him be a kid . . . blah blah blah." You're the future of ND football, get your azz to SB and get to work.

 

[calvegas04]

Gonna need to see some new footage of him throwing normal before getting excited. Hope he is a EE

 

[GowerND11]

I got burned at the stake by my IE brethren for being upset that Phil decided to play basketball and not EE. "Let him be a kid . . . blah blah blah." You're the future of ND football, get your azz to SB and get to work.

That was me! haha. I still stand by it, but it clearly didn't work out like we all wanted...

 

[zelezo vlk]

Considering that was also right after we saw Wimbush's shortcomings as a QB, Phil skipping out on spring by not EE'ing meant that he wouldn't really be part of the quarterback competition.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

FWIW, Sampson's article on The Athletic today effectively confirms that he will be able to EE.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

FWIW, Sampson's article on The Athletic today effectively confirms that he will be able to EE.

Not just that he will be able to, but that he actually will be enrolling early. Which might really suck for us if reporters still aren't allowed in practice due to covid restrictions, but could be great for him to get some reps without everyone dissecting every snap.

 

[ulukinatme]

Did Ian enroll early? I can't remember. Rees did and it paid dividends late in 2010 (and subsequently later in his career as that experience added up) when he took over as starter.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Did Ian enroll early? I can't remember. Rees did and it paid dividends late in 2010 (and subsequently later in his career as that experience added up) when he took over as starter.

Book didn't.

I don't think we've had a QB enroll early prior to Pyne since I think either Kiel or Zaire. That's 6 recruiting cycles without an early enrollee QB.

 

[Blazers46]

Considering that was also right after we saw Wimbush's shortcomings as a QB, Phil skipping out on spring by not EE'ing meant that he wouldn't really be part of the quarterback competition.

I totally forgot Wimbush existed at ND...

 

[SoIll]

Interesting article.

https://247sports.com/college/notre...liams-Brock-Vandagriff-Jaxson-Dart-156603305/


''BOOM OR BUST: NOTRE DAME COMMIT TYLER BUCHNER

Heisman's and national championships could be in Tyler Buchner’s future – or he may never start a game. That’s the spectrum. Given his ranking, we expect the first scenario is more likely but the California native is an enigma. He missed his sophomore season due to injury. He dominated his junior season but it was against subpar competition."

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Interesting article.

https://247sports.com/college/notre...liams-Brock-Vandagriff-Jaxson-Dart-156603305/


''BOOM OR BUST: NOTRE DAME COMMIT TYLER BUCHNER

Heisman's and national championships could be in Tyler Buchner’s future – or he may never start a game. That’s the spectrum. Given his ranking, we expect the first scenario is more likely but the California native is an enigma. He missed his sophomore season due to injury. He dominated his junior season but it was against subpar competition."

Boom or bust, sounds about right from the QBs Kelly has recruited unfortunately. Time will tell, hope we have a good one though.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Boom or bust, sounds about right from the QBs Kelly has recruited unfortunately. Time will tell, hope we have a good one though.

I'd say that's the opposite of what Kelly's QBs have been like. His most successful QBs (Rees, Book) are usually described as high floor, low ceiling guys. Golson and Wimbush weren't busts so much dual-threat QBs who couldn't improve enough at the mental aspects of the game enough to turn into the game-breakers we hoped they'd be. Kizer was the closest thing to a complete draft-worthy QB Kelly has had, and we got one glorious year out of him, but his record was otherwise marred by an imploding BvGefense. Zaire got injured and lost a step, so we never really found out what he could have accomplished. Crist is accurately described as a bust, but one that Kelly inherited from Weis.

 

[NDRock]

Interesting article.

https://247sports.com/college/notre...liams-Brock-Vandagriff-Jaxson-Dart-156603305/


''BOOM OR BUST: NOTRE DAME COMMIT TYLER BUCHNER

Heisman's and national championships could be in Tyler Buchner’s future – or he may never start a game. That’s the spectrum. Given his ranking, we expect the first scenario is more likely but the California native is an enigma. He missed his sophomore season due to injury. He dominated his junior season but it was against subpar competition."

I think that article shows we should not expect Tyler to come in and start right away. He essentially played one year of high school football and it was against a low level of competition. I think he can still be a great player, may just not happen until his 3rd year.

 

[IrishLion]

I'd say that's the opposite of what Kelly's QBs have been like. His most successful QBs (Rees, Book) are usually described as high floor, low ceiling guys. Golson and Wimbush weren't busts so much dual-threat QBs who couldn't improve enough at the mental aspects of the game enough to turn into the game-breakers we hoped they'd be. Kizer was the closest thing to a complete draft-worthy QB Kelly has had, and we got one glorious year out of him, but his record was otherwise marred by an imploding BvGefense. Zaire got injured and lost a step, so we never really found out what he could have accomplished. Crist is accurately described as a bust, but one that Kelly inherited from Weis.

I'll go to my grave arguing that Crist was on his way to being a VERY good QB based on the early returns in 2010... but his downfall was that he didn't know how to protect himself when he ran the ball and put his body in awkward positions too many times.

I remember watching the MSU and Pittsburgh games that year, thinking "This is exactly how it looked with Pike running UC's offense. This is what we were looking for."

They just needed time to build up to a run in 2011 with BK improving the team top-to-bottom... but Crist got hurt one too many times, then BK flip-flopped him with Rees too quickly in 2011, and that was all she wrote.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'd say that's the opposite of what Kelly's QBs have been like. His most successful QBs (Rees, Book) are usually described as high floor, low ceiling guys. Golson and Wimbush weren't busts so much dual-threat QBs who couldn't improve enough at the mental aspects of the game enough to turn into the game-breakers we hoped they'd be. Kizer was the closest thing to a complete draft-worthy QB Kelly has had, and we got one glorious year out of him, but his record was otherwise marred by an imploding BvGefense. Zaire got injured and lost a step, so we never really found out what he could have accomplished. Crist is accurately described as a bust, but one that Kelly inherited from Weis.

Wimbush, Kiel, and Phil are the high 4*/borderline 5* guys Kelly has recruited. The guys most similar to Buchner I'd say, at least with rating/expectations coming out of high school. I'd say they were all "busts" at ND. The "booms" were guys like Rees, Kizer and Book - low 4*/3* guys. Unfortunately, if he follows trends at ND he'll be a "bust" while getting outplayed by a 3 star "boom". Hopefully he bucks the trend.

 

[OCIrish]

I'll go to my grave arguing that Crist was on his way to being a VERY good QB based on the early returns in 2010... but his downfall was that he didn't know how to protect himself when he ran the ball and put his body in awkward positions too many times.

I remember watching the MSU and Pittsburgh games that year, thinking "This is exactly how it looked with Pike running UC's offense. This is what we were looking for."

They just needed time to build up to a run in 2011 with BK improving the team top-to-bottom... but Crist got hurt one too many times, then BK flip-flopped him with Rees too quickly in 2011, and that was all she wrote.

I remember that MSU game......my goodness was Crist an absolute beast that game!!!! I thought he'd go on to do great things, not only for us, but in the NFL after that showing, lol

 

[dad4aa]

I'll go to my grave arguing that Crist was on his way to being a VERY good QB based on the early returns in 2010... but his downfall was that he didn't know how to protect himself when he ran the ball and put his body in awkward positions too many times.

I remember watching the MSU and Pittsburgh games that year, thinking "This is exactly how it looked with Pike running UC's offense. This is what we were looking for."

They just needed time to build up to a run in 2011 with BK improving the team top-to-bottom... but Crist got hurt one too many times, then BK flip-flopped him with Rees too quickly in 2011, and that was all she wrote.

I'm not so sure about that. Crist sucked at Kansas so not sure he would have done any better had he stayed at the helm instead of Tommy. He was a career mid 50's passer with an average to below average TD-INT ratio and very bad when running.

 

[NDRock]

I'll go to my grave arguing that Crist was on his way to being a VERY good QB based on the early returns in 2010... but his downfall was that he didn't know how to protect himself when he ran the ball and put his body in awkward positions too many times.

I remember watching the MSU and Pittsburgh games that year, thinking "This is exactly how it looked with Pike running UC's offense. This is what we were looking for."

They just needed time to build up to a run in 2011 with BK improving the team top-to-bottom... but Crist got hurt one too many times, then BK flip-flopped him with Rees too quickly in 2011, and that was all she wrote.

That's funny. I remember thinking "We're really going to throw the ball 55 times in our QB's first road start? Great another pass happy coach who won't run the ball. This is not what I was looking for."

Guess it all worked out in the end.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Wimbush, Kiel, and Phil are the high 4*/borderline 5* guys Kelly has recruited. The guys most similar to Buchner I'd say, at least with rating/expectations coming out of high school. I'd say they were all "busts" at ND. The "booms" were guys like Rees, Kizer and Book - low 4*/3* guys. Unfortunately, if he follows trends at ND he'll be a "bust" while getting outplayed by a 3 star "boom". Hopefully he bucks the trend.

We must have different definitions of "bust". Kiel and Phil were 5-star recruits who transferred out and were immediately productive starters at lower-profile programs. Wimbush was an electric runner who, like Golson, just couldn't master the subtleties of the position sufficiently to hold off his competition. He eventually lost out to Book, but he wasn't a bust.

The fact that Kelly hasn't been able to recruit, develop and retain more high-profile QB recruits is indeed odd, but it hasn't been "boom or bust" at QB under CBK.

 

[Luckylucci]

We must have different definitions of "bust". Kiel and Phil were 5-star recruits who transferred out and were immediately productive starters at lower-profile programs. Wimbush was an electric runner who, like Golson, just couldn't master the subtleties of the position sufficiently to hold off his competition. He eventually lost out to Book, but he wasn't a bust.

The fact that Kelly hasn't been able to recruit, develop and retain more high-profile QB recruits is indeed odd, but it hasn't been "boom or bust" at QB under CBK.

Agreed. Could those guys be deemed overrated? Certainly. But busts? Definitely not. In 2017 Wimbush was a starting QB on a 10 win team and accounted for 2600 yards of offense and 30 TD's. That's not a bust. The fact that he lost out to Book would seem to indicate Book was underrated and Wimbush was overrated. But, I believe the word bust should be reserved for guys that never start or have any production to speak of. USC and Michigan certainly don't think Wimbush was a bust, lol.

 

[IrishLax]

We must have different definitions of "bust". Kiel and Phil were 5-star recruits who transferred out and were immediately productive starters at lower-profile programs. Wimbush was an electric runner who, like Golson, just couldn't master the subtleties of the position sufficiently to hold off his competition. He eventually lost out to Book, but he wasn't a bust.

The fact that Kelly hasn't been able to recruit, develop and retain more high-profile QB recruits is indeed odd, but it hasn't been "boom or bust" at QB under CBK.

To piggyback, on this the last six seasons, Kelly has gotten good-to-great QB pretty frequently. The exceptions were the '16 debacle and '17 with Wimbush being sketchy in the passing game while dynamic on the ground.

In total, his QBs have finished with QBRs of:
12 (Kizer)
39 (Kizer)
18 (Wimbush)
12 (Book)
19 (Book)
7 (Book)

While this is his first season with top 10 QB play, he has never had QB play outside the top 20 with the exception of the season we don't talk about. It's very much overstated how Kelly can't recruit or develop QBs, but what's true is that ND hasn't had a golden arm NFL QB in his tenure, and when you go player-for-player of the ~10 QBs he has signed since he took the job only two have ultimately had ND playing careers that anyone would consider "successful". So it's the 20% hit rate that seems to drive the narrative rather than the relatively consistent production over the latter half of his tenure.

A lot of schools recruit 5-star or 4-star guys that "miss" and transfer, which is why Oklahoma spent four straight seasons taking transfer QBs. It's why Georgia took two high profile transfers this past year, and it's why a school that recruits as well as Ohio State went out and got Justin Fields. IMO, that's where Notre Dame is really handicapped... next year would be a great time to take a plug-and-play QB not knowing what you have in Buchner or Clark, but it's VERY hard for ND to take any transfers that aren't grad transfers.

 

[IrishLax]

Also, a guy I'd like ND to take a look at if he doesn't declare for the NFL draft is Dustin Crum. No idea if he's interested in doing a 5th year anywhere besides Kent State but he's been a very good QB for two years.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

To piggyback, on this the last six seasons, Kelly has gotten good-to-great QB pretty frequently. The exceptions were the '16 debacle and '17 with Wimbush being sketchy in the passing game while dynamic on the ground.

In total, his QBs have finished with QBRs of:
12 (Kizer)
39 (Kizer)
18 (Wimbush)
12 (Book)
19 (Book)
7 (Book)

While this is his first season with top 10 QB play, he has never had QB play outside the top 20 with the exception of the season we don't talk about. It's very much overstated how Kelly can't recruit or develop QBs, but what's true is that ND hasn't had a golden arm NFL QB in his tenure, and when you go player-for-player of the ~10 QBs he has signed since he took the job only two have ultimately had ND playing careers that anyone would consider "successful". So it's the 20% hit rate that seems to drive the narrative rather than the relatively consistent production over the latter half of his tenure.

A lot of schools recruit 5-star or 4-star guys that "miss" and transfer, which is why Oklahoma spent four straight seasons taking transfer QBs. It's why Georgia took two high profile transfers this past year, and it's why a school that recruits as well as Ohio State went out and got Justin Fields. IMO, that's where Notre Dame is really handicapped... next year would be a great time to take a plug-and-play QB not knowing what you have in Buchner or Clark, but it's VERY hard for ND to take any transfers that aren't grad transfers.

Top 20 QBR is nice, but do you really believe any of those guys you mentioned could take us to a championship outside of maybe Ian Book this year? I don't. The collective play at QB during Kelly's tenure has been fine, but not a single season was it elite. To win 2 games against the Bamas, Clemsons, and OSUs we need elite QB play. Ian Book has a chance this year. Buchner has the talent to be next in line but the trend says he'll just be "good".

If this revamped philosophy of ground n pound continues to evolve, maybe we don't need elite QB play. It's possible we get a dominant Oline, dominant defense, and elite backs coming together in one year but the odds are lower than hitting a homerun with an elite QB.

And for the record, I'm pretty excited about Buchner. I think he could be the guy.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not so sure about that. Crist sucked at Kansas so not sure he would have done any better had he stayed at the helm instead of Tommy. He was a career mid 50's passer with an average to below average TD-INT ratio and very bad when running.

Who hasn't sucked at Kansas? lol

We must have different definitions of "bust". Kiel and Phil were 5-star recruits who transferred out and were immediately productive starters at lower-profile programs. Wimbush was an electric runner who, like Golson, just couldn't master the subtleties of the position sufficiently to hold off his competition. He eventually lost out to Book, but he wasn't a bust.

The fact that Kelly hasn't been able to recruit, develop and retain more high-profile QB recruits is indeed odd, but it hasn't been "boom or bust" at QB under CBK.

Golson wasn't too bad at learning the position. He just had a bad case of fumbleitis that he couldn't shake.

 

[GowerND11]

Top 20 QBR is nice, but do you really believe any of those guys you mentioned could take us to a championship outside of maybe Ian Book this year? I don't. The collective play at QB during Kelly's tenure has been fine, but not a single season was it elite. To win 2 games against the Bamas, Clemsons, and OSUs we need elite QB play. Ian Book has a chance this year. Buchner has the talent to be next in line but the trend says he'll just be "good".

If this revamped philosophy of ground n pound continues to evolve, maybe we don't need elite QB play. It's possible we get a dominant Oline, dominant defense, and elite backs coming together in one year but the odds are lower than hitting a homerun with an elite QB.

And for the record, I'm pretty excited about Buchner. I think he could be the guy.

Kiser in 2015 absolutely.

 

[notredomer23]

Also, a guy I'd like ND to take a look at if he doesn't declare for the NFL draft is Dustin Crum. No idea if he's interested in doing a 5th year anywhere besides Kent State but he's been a very good QB for two years.

https://walterfootball.com/draft2021QB.php

Love this thought. Walter football has him currently as the 13th ranked QB prospect if he came out this year which could be 6th round to FA. Would think he might wanna play one more year as a grand transfer to improve that

 

[Irish YJ]

What about Jamie Newman out of Wake/UGA?

His stock has dropped a ton since he chose to sit out at UGA. And UGA's QB situation will be even muddier next year with 5 star Vandagriff coming in. JT Daniels will still be there also unless he transfers. Something has to give.

 

[Irishnuke]

These unnecessary bumps are giving me anxiety.

 

[GowerND11]

These unnecessary bumps are giving me anxiety.

Bump

 

[domer13]

Bump

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Joining us from California, welcome <a href="https://twitter.com/tylerbuchner?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tylerbuchner</a> to Notre Dame.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoIrish?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoIrish</a> x <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoldRush21?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoldRush21</a> <a href="https://t.co/4vvyEZjqFc">pic.twitter.com/4vvyEZjqFc</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/1339229375540195333?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>