2016 Spring Practice Thread

[Irish#1]

All this talk of using hands and not one "violent hands" reference? Color me disappointed.

 

[rtrn2glory]

My preseason prediction... Both Bilal and Barajas will be starters at some point in the season.

with the luck we've had in regards to injuries the past few years this isn't much of a bold prediction.

 

[TheChosen1]

My preseason prediction... Both Bilal and Barajas will be starters at some point in the season.

Going out on a ledge there ey?

 

[woolybug25]

with the luck we've had in regards to injuries the past few years this isn't much of a bold prediction.

I'm not even talking about injury. I think they will just be better. Coney could stand in the way, but even he could get passed, imo.

Despite recent slobbering over Martini, he isn't that great of a football player. He is the low ceiling - high floor type glue guy you need to have on a team. But he just doesn't have what it takes to be an elite LB in my opinion.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not even talking about injury. I think they will just be better. Coney could stand in the way, but even he could get passed, imo.

Despite recent slobbering over Martini, he isn't that great of a football player. He is the low ceiling - high floor type glue guy you need to have on a team. But he just doesn't have what it takes to be an elite LB in my opinion.

Even though he's now gone, you still had to bring Schmidt into the conversation. lol

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm not even talking about injury. I think they will just be better. Coney could stand in the way, but even he could get passed, imo.

Despite recent slobbering over Martini, he isn't that great of a football player. He is the low ceiling - high floor type glue guy you need to have on a team. But he just doesn't have what it takes to be an elite LB in my opinion.

Woahhhhh, shots fired at Martini... I've actually like what I've seen. If he got more minutes, his experiences will translate well. He's just been buried.

 

[woolybug25]

Woahhhhh, shots fired at Martini... I've actually like what I've seen. If he got more minutes, his experiences will translate well. He's just been buried.

Is more playing time going to make him more athletic?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Is more playing time going to make him more athletic?

Is his athleticism a problem? Because I certainly don't see it that way, at all. You act as if he's a Joe Schmidt, but he's definitely as athletic (or more so) than a Danny Fox.

Playing time will allow him to gain experiences that will increase his decision making/reaction time. That will translate into "quicker" plays, so yes, playing times will allow him to play faster.

But athleticism isn't a concern for me, at all.

 

[Luckylucci]

I strongly disagree that Martini isn't athletic enough to play LB at a high level. He's been more than adequate in every game he's played in.

It doesn't make you more athletic but it sure helps you play faster. The more experience you get, the better understanding of the game, the more the game "slows down", and thus the faster you play.

No way in hell Bilal and Barajas are starting without injuries. I really like those players but not happening. If BVG couldn't get Morgan on the field to play last year. How's he going to get Barajas on the field , at MLB, when he was on the Scout team last year. Keep in mind, the Scout team runs the other teams scheme, so if you are on the scout team, you are not getting reps during the regular season in our defense.

With that said, I think Bilal is going to get a lot of reps and hopefully get a lot of minutes but they won't both be starting together outside of injury.

 

[woolybug25]

I strongly disagree that Martini isn't athletic enough to play LB at a high level. He's been more than adequate in every game he's played in.

It doesn't make you more athletic but it sure helps you play faster. The more experience you get, the better understanding of the game, the more the game "slows down", and thus the faster you play.

No way in hell Bilal and Barajas are starting without injuries. I really like those players but not happening. If BVG couldn't get Morgan on the field to play last year. How's he going to get Barajas on the field , at MLB, when he was on the Scout team last year. Keep in mind, the Scout team runs the other teams scheme, so if you are on the scout team, you are not getting reps during the regular season in our defense.

To each their own. Strongly disagree if you want. I just don't look at Martini and see a superior athlete. I see a smart player with good size that wont make major mistakes. He's not a playmaker and he doesn't have elite athleticism.

Barajas and Bilal on the other hand, are big time recruits with awesome athleticism. They have been in the system a year and should be ready to contribute. My prediction (which I am entitled to, btw) is that their play will get them on the field.

Re: Barajas, I don't see him at MLB. I see him at WILL or SAM.

The “1st-Team” LBs for today:

Will - Bilal
Mike - Morgan
Sam - Onwualu


— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) March 16, 2016

I would prefer him at SAM and Bilal at WILL, but that part will work itself out. Either way, just like I didn't like Morgan sitting behind Schmidt, I don't want to see our most athletic guys sitting on the bench.

 

[Luckylucci]

To each their own. Strongly disagree if you want. I just don't look at Martini and see a superior athlete. I see a smart player with good size that wont make major mistakes. He's not a playmaker and he doesn't have elite athleticism.

Barajas and Bilal on the other hand, are big time recruits with awesome athleticism. They have been in the system a year and should be ready to contribute. My prediction (which I am entitled to, btw) is that their play will get them on the field.

Re: Barajas, I don't see him at MLB. I see him at WILL or SAM.



I would prefer him at SAM and Bilal at WILL, but that part will work itself out. Either way, just like I didn't like Morgan sitting behind Schmidt, I don't want to see our most athletic guys sitting on the bench.

He actually is a playmaker. When he's in the game, the guy makes plays. His numbers/stats won't wow you because he doesn't get a ton of snaps. Just like with Trumbetti, he's very productive when you look at it on a per snap basis. I agree he doesn't have elite athleticism but you don't need to have "elite" athleticism to be successful at the collegiate level. Manti, certainly isn't an elite athlete. Now I'm not comparing the two but you can excel by having good athleticism and a very good understanding of the game, lots of players do.

Barajas is taking his reps at Mike, currently. So as of now, the staff sees him there.

For how much our SAM Lb is playing in space, I don't want Barajas as SAM. He's a box player.

This, I agree with in theory, but then you are making the assumption that. 1. they understand the scheme well enough to use that athleticism on the field. We have absolutely no idea if that's true. They both just spent a season learning other teams schemes. 2. The guys in front of them are not as athletic. Which as of today, I don't agree with either. Morgan can play downhill from the Mike, where Barajas currently is, better than anyone. Our Will LB is an inside position and although I think Bilal might be the most athletic LB, Jaylon Smith as a sophomore had trouble playing "inside" in this defense at times. Bilal most certainly will as well. That's why Martini and Coney, who are both more physically imposing will probably get the looks first. Where I'd really like to see Bilal get a lot of reps and snaps is at SAM. For what the SAM is asked to do is perfect for Bilal at this time. Could he move to Will with more physical development and be an every down player, I think so, just not currently.

And yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, this is just one that I thought would go in the bold prediction thread

 

[connor_in]

Every spring, I make a ridiculous suggestion/wish that will never come true. The :30 practice clips bring it out in me.

So you are predicting Finke as an All American speedster WR?

 

[woolybug25]

He actually is a playmaker. When he's in the game, the guy makes plays. His numbers/stats won't wow you because he doesn't get a ton of snaps. Just like with Trumbetti, he's very productive when you look at it on a per snap basis. I agree he doesn't have elite athleticism but you don't need to have "elite" athleticism to be successful at the collegiate level. Manti, certainly isn't an elite athlete. Now I'm not comparing the two but you can excel by having good athleticism and a very good understanding of the game, lots of players do.

I would rather have an athletic guy that makes plays. I politely disagree with you that Martini makes plays, I simply haven't seen that.

Barajas is taking his reps at Mike, currently. So as of now, the staff sees him there.

I just quoted that tweet that had him practicing with the first team as WILL. I get that he has historically been at MIKE (if any player can historically be at a position after one year), but he has been practicing at WILL in addition to MIKE. That's just a fact.

For how much our SAM Lb is playing in space, I don't want Barajas as SAM. He's a box player.

I would argue that he's more athletic than Martini.

This, I agree with in theory, but then you are making the assumption that. 1. they understand the scheme well enough to use that athleticism on the field. We have absolutely no idea if that's true. They both just spent a season learning other teams schemes. 2. The guys in front of them are not as athletic. Which as of today, I don't agree with either. Morgan can play downhill from the Mike, where Barajas currently is, better than anyone. Our Will LB is an inside position and although I think Bilal might be the most athletic LB, Jaylon Smith as a sophomore had trouble playing "inside" in this defense at times. Bilal most certainly will as well. That's why Martini and Coney, who are both more physically imposing will probably get the looks first. Where I'd really like to see Bilal get a lot of reps and snaps is at SAM. For what the SAM is asked to do is perfect for Bilal at this time. Could he move to Will with more physical development and be an every down player, I think so, just not currently.

And yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, this is just one that I thought would go in the bold prediction thread

I guess I just disagree on the athleticism piece. I don't think that Martini is more athletic than any of the guys named Bilal, Morgan or Barajas. I just see the writing on the wall and could see him eventually being a fill in player, preferably behind Morgan in the middle.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Three things :
Dexter's performance testing has moved off the charts -- I think it was quoted as being one of the most improved on the team. He will get plenty of looks from now until the season begins.
Wimbush has a great arm, is fast as lightning and almost everything anyone says about him is true. But his throwing is the least accurate of the three, and so far he has put more behind the receiver, left more receivers exposed with his positioning, and generally had worse ball placement. Not saying he isn't great, just that he needs more time to come up to the level of a Kizer or Zaire. Him starting this year would portend bad things for the Irish.
I don't know what anyone wants out of Greer Martini. I believe he is the longest, one of the heaviest, one of the quickest, and one of the fastest, of all linebackers. Oh yeah, and he has ball skills. Do I consider him a Jaylon Smith? No. But I do consider him better than 90% of the linebackers that have played for the Irish in the past eight or nine seasons. Oh yeah, and he is really smart, and football smart, too.

PS : I told you so about Mike moving to left tackle!

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

So, can I do a quick poll?

Does anyone here agree with Wooly that Martini is a low ceiling, low athletic player?

I'm not following his assessment, and was curious if anyone else sees that from Greer.

 

[woolybug25]

So, can I do a quick poll?

Does anyone here agree with Wooly that Martini is a low ceiling, low athletic player?

I'm not following his assessment, and was curious if anyone else sees that from Greer.

What aren't you following? I didn't conclude a detailed assessment with pivot tables, I just said he wasn't athletic and doesn't make plays. Nothing really to "follow".

Show me the plays he's made. Show me why he is athletic. Pretty simple.

 

[Wild Bill]

What aren't you following? I didn't conclude a detailed assessment with pivot tables, I just said he wasn't athletic and doesn't make plays. Nothing really to "follow".

Show me the plays he's made. Show me why he is athletic. Pretty simple.

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VjXkL5VCLPk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

50 second mark.

 

[IrishLion]

Show me the plays he's made. Show me why he is athletic. Pretty simple.

He was running around pretty well when given the chance against GT early last season, which was his most extended look, I think. But then again, I think the staff had a phenomenal game plan that allowed Martini and Tranquil to run around like madmen and crush the option at the edges. He's "flashed" whenever given the opportunity, but that's mainly because he goes to the right spot.

I think we need to see more footage of everyone before any argument can be made about which linebackers are the most athletic. We haven't even seen Bilal or Barajas yet, and Martini hasn't gotten a long enough look to say whether he's making plays because he's athletic or because he's smart (or if it's a combo of both).

(The only thing I know is that I think Coney is going to be the sure mainstay, simply because of how comfortable the staff was in plugging him in behind Jaylon immediately as a freshman, and also because they had him as a mainstay near the goal line. But there's not enough footage of Coney yet either to support my opinion. He could get passed up by either of the redshirt LB's, or even Martini. I love the offseason. Let's debate this for the next 5 months.)

 

[woolybug25]

50 second mark.

Thank you for the clip of the only sack of his career. It really wasn't this big time play, he came in untouched on a broken play. Good for him, but it wasn't this big time athletic play.

Also... when I say "he doesn't make plays" (ie plural), it doesn't mean just show me a clip of one time when he tackled someone. That's not really a representative sample.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Thank you for the clip of the only sack of his career. It really wasn't this big time play, he came in untouched on a broken play. Good for him, but it wasn't this big time athletic play.

Also... when I say "he doesn't make plays" (ie plural), it doesn't mean just show me a clip of one time when he tackled someone. That's not really a representative sample.

Can you provide evidence of him not making plays because of his athletic inability?

Or can we all just agree that this is your opinion and that the only fact in this argument is that we don't know enough about any of them to say one way or another?

 

[Wild Bill]

Thank you for the clip of the only sack of his career. It really wasn't this big time play, he came in untouched on a broken play. Good for him, but it wasn't this big time athletic play.

Also... when I say "he doesn't make plays" (ie plural), it doesn't mean just show me a clip of one time when he tackled someone. That's not really a representative sample.

You asked for a play.

He may have been untouched but that play is not easy to make. It's really common for the first untouched defender to over pursue and then the second wave of defenders makes the play. He showed good feet and stayed with the play - sacking Bridgewater in the clutch to force a field goal. Not bad for a freshman.

The luxury of playing smart, reading your keys and having great technique is that you do not need elite athleticism to be effective.

 

[goldandblue]

Thank you for the clip of the only sack of his career. It really wasn't this big time play, he came in untouched on a broken play. Good for him, but it wasn't this big time athletic play.

Also... when I say "he doesn't make plays" (ie plural), it doesn't mean just show me a clip of one time when he tackled someone. That's not really a representative sample.

Only Sack?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qd1_0aDO7Is" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[pkt77242]

What aren't you following? I didn't conclude a detailed assessment with pivot tables, I just said he wasn't athletic and doesn't make plays. Nothing really to "follow".

Show me the plays he's made. Show me why he is athletic. Pretty simple.

Well why not? I love me some pivot tables and why you are at it why don't you create some simulations that show how our defense will do with Martini starting vs with Bilal or Barajas.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Well why not? I love me some pivot tables and why you are at it why don't you create some simulations that show how our defense will do with Martini starting vs with Bilal or Barajas.

Pfft. You would

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Man, Wooly is really, really on his game today.

 

[PANDFAN]

Spring Practice Video Breakdown: Day One – Inside the Irish

 

[NDdomer2]

Man, Wooly is really, really on his game today.

although i am interested in his response to the last few posts. he has brought the nerds out with his use of pivot table.

 

[ulukinatme]

Spring Practice Video Breakdown: Day One – Inside the Irish

Time to over-analyze!

 

[woolybug25]

Can you provide evidence of him not making plays because of his athletic inability?

Or can we all just agree that this is your opinion and that the only fact in this argument is that we don't know enough about any of them to say one way or another?

Yeah, my evidence is his lack of stats and film of him being a playmaker. Pretty simple.

You asked for a play.

He may have been untouched but that play is not easy to make. It's really common for the first untouched defender to over pursue and then the second wave of defenders makes the play. He showed good feet and stayed with the play - sacking Bridgewater in the clutch to force a field goal. Not bad for a freshman.

The luxury of playing smart, reading your keys and having great technique is that you do not need elite athleticism to be effective.

I didn't ask for "a play". I asked to show me plays (see: plural) as evidence. Do you think that showing one untouched sack from two years ago represents a body of work?

Only Sack?

You got me! He has two career sacks in two years of playing. Definitely elite.

 

[Bubbles]

This is always fun.