'18 PA QB Phil Jurkovec (Wherever I May Roam Chud)

[Ndaccountant]

Phil had 81 touchdowns his Junior year? No, no he didn't. I think Tyler is going to be the best QB ND has had in a very long time. Clark looked good in the game he played. Worrying about 2021 today is fruitless. Lots of things can happen between then and now

You can literally go back 10 or 15 pages in this thread where non-ND people were openly stating that Phil was the best QB to come out of Western PA.....ever.

Considering the lineage of Western PA QB's, I would call that on par with Tyler.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Not a good question. Phil had mid 60’s on the #1 school in PA. Getting 15 more on Buchner’s squad & schedule this year would be expected. I mean the OTHER QB in LaJolla led the entire nation in passing and passing TD’s.

Everything will be fine when BK hires Moorhead and Phil changes his mind.

LOL Phil had 20 TOTAL TD his Junior season. I'm not comparing senior and 3 year starter Phil to Junior and only really played 2 years Tyler. Tyler was responsible for 81 scores as a junior after only playing a couple of games his sophomore year. With those stats and the highlights, I don't care about the competition. He is an All American for a reason. When next season is over, he'll probably be a top 30 prospect even if his senior year isn't as phenomenal as this year. Phil was a highly rated recruit but was not a top 50 recruit. I guess we'll see with Tyler.

If Tyler is a bust at ND, I'll officially believe that Kelly CANNOT develop a QB unless he is a 3 star or lower.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

You can literally go back 10 or 15 pages in this thread where non-ND people were openly stating that Phil was the best QB to come out of Western PA.....ever.

Considering the lineage of Western PA QB's, I would call that on par with Tyler.

Don't get me wrong. I was excited as anybody about Phil. But I have not been as excited about a recruit as I am about Tyler ever. If Tyler doesn't pan out, I just may stop watching college football. It will be too depressing.

 

[ulukinatme]

Would it be safe to say that a better rushing attack helped Kizer, too? They couldn't sit back in coverage because they had to respect the run. He did have a bigger arm but he had less passing yards, less completion percentage, less touchdowns, and more picks. Other than maybe more long passes completed, nothing about his stats was better than Book this year. So why is it that Kizer was so we'll liked and fans wanted him back but it's good riddance Book???

Kizer came in at the perfect time. We had a strong running game behind an excellent OL, he had Will Fuller to stretch the defense with a healthy compliment of possession receivers like Robinson and Chris Brown. BK even kept the offense simple, Sanford tailored the offense to Kizer's strengths and they kept little on his shoulders to make his job easier. The next season....not so much...running game took a dive and the receivers were all inexperienced. It's no wonder that Kizer went from Spring Game zero to regular season hero in 2015 once Malik went down. Really makes you wonder what Malik would have done had he not gotten hurt, that offense was setup to make him succeed with his skillset.

 

[NorthDakota]

1) Phil was Buchner before Buchner. So I am not counting on anything from him.

2) ND's needs to have elite QB play to take advantage of the rest of the roster. I personally don't see anything from those two that suggest they would be elite.

Look, Clark and Pyne could turn out great. Or, they could be average. I don't know. But, there is no mistaking that Phil had the foundation / skill set that had a tremendous ceiling. Losing that is not something to just take in stride. This one stings IMO.

Yep. This hurts. This was a high ceiling guy who is gone because ND let a medium ceiling guy come back. I'm sad.

 

[Circa]

Sorry to see ya leave PJ. I always root for the next man in to be better than the last man out.
We can only read one at a time tho...
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[Crazy Balki]

Yep. This hurts. This was a high ceiling guy who is gone because ND let a medium ceiling guy come back. I'm sad.

I don't know why this is the conclusion most of the people on here are drawing.

Phil is going to have to sit in '20 anyways because the transfer rule. If he was the incumbent starter after Book left, then transferring only makes his job more difficult.

I'd say, at the very least, he wasn't the guaranteed #2 behind Book this year and Clark is better than some of us assume.

 

[Blaise]

I don't know why this is the conclusion most of the people on here are drawing.

Phil is going to have to sit in '20 anyways because the transfer rule. If he was the incumbent starter after Book left, then transferring only makes his job more difficult.

I'd say, at the very least, he wasn't the guaranteed #2 behind Book this year and Clark is better than some of us assume.

Absolutely correct,

Or he was afraid the much hyped Fresh would beat him out in 2021, and if he really thought he would get beat out, hes not the type of QB I want leading my team. I want the leader who is fearless who never doubts for a second he is the best QB on the field

 

[BabyIrish]

Can any of these guys throw more than 20 yards?

Clark has the highest ceiling of the QB's on the roster. If he's developed he could take over in 2021.

 

[Irish#1]

Reading an article from the Athletic by Sampson, it reads like Phil has just not developed from the mental aspect which has not only kept him from seeing the field more, but has put him in a position where he was more in a battle to keep the backup position than he was in unseating Book. It mentioned him reading the wrong play against Bowling Green and taking 12 sacks in the B&G game.

"the proper read is that Jurkovec didn’t have the ability to push Book at all. If Jurkovec had returned to Notre Dame this spring, he was more likely to face competition from Brendon Clark and Drew Pyne than to bring the competition to Book.

Of the top six QB's in Phil's class, three have already transferred. Phil would be number 4.

 

[stlnd01]

Yep. This hurts. This was a high ceiling guy who is gone because ND let a medium ceiling guy come back. I'm sad.

You'd be happier if we pushed out a QB with 20 wins to play a QB who's never demonstrated any actual ability to play at this level?

I wish Phil was staying too. But I wouldn't lay this one on Book.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Reading an article from the Athletic by Sampson, it reads like Phil has just not developed from the mental aspect which has not only kept him from seeing the field more, but has put him in a position where he was more in a battle to keep the backup position than he was in unseating Book. It mentioned him reading the wrong play against Bowling Green and taking 12 sacks in the B&G game.



Of the top six QB's in Phil's class, three have already transferred. Phil would be number 4.

Maybe another read on this is that it's more proof that the offensive system at ND is too complicated for it's own good. After all, isn't that the curse of the 2nd year QB? Once the real playbook is opened up, its too much to handle?

 

[calvegas04]

Im sad to see him go, I was expecting him to be the guy to bring ND back. Sadly everything I saw out of him was less than exciting. I still wish BK would have let him sling the ball more in the mop up duty time so let us see anything else.

 

[dad4aa]

Maybe another read on this is that it's more proof that the offensive system and ND is too complicated for it's own good. After all, isn't that the curse of the 2nd year QB? Once the real playbook is opened up, its too much to handle?

This is my concern. This year should be telling as it is the only time IIRC that we have had a third year starter at QB under BK.

 

[arrowryan]

Sorry kid, we like to start the 3* type with heart.

6’5” 220+ with a rocket arm? Not here mate. Off u go.

You really think Phil was better than Book? If so he would've started this season after Book shit his pants in October.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Maybe another read on this is that it's more proof that the offensive system at ND is too complicated for it's own good. After all, isn't that the curse of the 2nd year QB? Once the real playbook is opened up, its too much to handle?

or maybe he's just a really good athlete that isn't developing mentally? Happens more often than not.

 

[arrowryan]

You're expecting a lot out of a true freshman QB. Luckily outside of Wisconsin and what should be an improved FSU team, 2021's schedule looks pretty soft.

Oh I know it. If Buchner isn't as good as I think he'll be then I will lose all hope in this staff developing quarterbacks. I think he's the real deal.

 

[Irish#1]

Maybe another read on this is that it's more proof that the offensive system at ND is too complicated for it's own good. After all, isn't that the curse of the 2nd year QB? Once the real playbook is opened up, its too much to handle?

It wasn't for Book. It's been documented that his play the first part of the season was him worrying too much about what people thought of him and his play. Once he stopped with the social media stuff he took off.

Yep. This hurts. This was a high ceiling guy who is gone because ND let a medium ceiling guy come back. I'm sad.

Is he really a medium ceiling guy? Seems to me he's progressed to being a 4 star kid and I won't be surprised if he elevates his play to 5 star level next season. While we talk about 5 star Phil, wasn't he really a 4 star recruit?

 

[arrowryan]

So from most of the opinions on here, we should let Phil run the hiring process for the OC because Phil>team and we don't want to hurt his feelings.

 

[IrishLion]

So from most of the opinions on here, we should let Phil run the hiring process for the OC because Phil>team and we don't want to hurt his feelings.

This situation is dividing the ND fan base. It is the embodiment of all the abstract debates about "BK is Small-Timey" vs "BK is a Program Developer."

You've got the big-time QB prospect leaving the program, while the scrappy 3-star kid is returning for a third season as The Man. The guy with unlimited potential, and who could take the program to championship heights, has been driven off, and we are "stuck" with the safe choice.

Anybody that has ever been FOR OR AGAINST Brian Kelly has a legitimate leg to stand on right now, all because a backup QB is leaving lol.

This is the Schism of the Church of ND Football.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

Is he really a medium ceiling guy? Seems to me he's progressed to being a 4 star kid and I won't be surprised if he elevates his play to 5 star level next season. While we talk about 5 star Phil, wasn't he really a 4 star recruit?

For reference the last 5 games of the season when they opened up the offense (and Rees was allegedly calling plays), Book's stats:

100/150, 1,206 yards, 17/2 TD/Int 168.9 QB rating - 44/295 rushing, 6.7 ypc

168.9 QB rating would have been 7th in the country behind Burrow, Hurts, Fields, Tanner Morgan, Tyler Huntley, and Lawrence. Not to mention those rushing stats translate to 750 yards on the season.

If he can play at that level for a whole season, I don't see how anyone could consider that "medium ceiling"

 

[koonja]

Reading an article from the Athletic by Sampson, it reads like Phil has just not developed from the mental aspect which has not only kept him from seeing the field more, but has put him in a position where he was more in a battle to keep the backup position than he was in unseating Book. It mentioned him reading the wrong play against Bowling Green and taking 12 sacks in the B&G game.



Of the top six QB's in Phil's class, three have already transferred. Phil would be number 4.

IDK who those other 3 are, but I bet they were surrounded elite high 4/5 star QBs that forced them out, no?

Not the case here. We have 3 star in front, and 3 star behind, then true frosh who is irrelevant to Phil's decision.

 

[arrowryan]

This situation is dividing the ND fan base. It is the embodiment of all the abstract debates about "BK is Small-Timey" vs "BK is a Program Developer."

You've got the big-time QB prospect leaving the program, while the scrappy 3-star kid is returning for a third season as The Man. The guy with unlimited potential, and who could take the program to championship heights, has been driven off, and we are "stuck" with the safe choice.

Anybody that has ever been FOR OR AGAINST Brian Kelly has a legitimate leg to stand on right now, all because a backup QB is leaving lol.

This is the Schism of the Church of ND Football.

Book is a better quarterback lol. This is pretty much fact. Sure, Phil throws a pretty deep ball but that doesn't matter if he can't make the other throws.

Book is the better QB, the safer option, the better option, and will lead Notre Dame to more wins in 2020 than Phil would've (assuming he's healthy).

 

[gkIrish]

This situation is dividing the ND fan base. It is the embodiment of all the abstract debates about "BK is Small-Timey" vs "BK is a Program Developer."

You've got the big-time QB prospect leaving the program, while the scrappy 3-star kid is returning for a third season as The Man. The guy with unlimited potential, and who could take the program to championship heights, has been driven off, and we are "stuck" with the safe choice.

Anybody that has ever been FOR OR AGAINST Brian Kelly has a legitimate leg to stand on right now, all because a backup QB is leaving lol.

This is the Schism of the Church of ND Football.

You are right that this is a microcosm of a larger debate. Satisfaction with being "above average" vs. striving to be a championship team.

 

[Ndaccountant]

or maybe he's just a really good athlete that isn't developing mentally? Happens more often than not.

There are countless QB's across the NCAA that are literally a box of rocks but are just fine running an offense. If it's an inability to grasp an offensive "philosophy", I'm more included to give Phil the benefit of the doubt considering the history of QB play at ND over the last decade.

 

[Ndaccountant]

This is my concern. This year should be telling as it is the only time IIRC that we have had a third year starter at QB under BK.

Technically, Tommy would fit that bill, no? He started 30 games across his time, so I would say that counts.

Maybe Book will be OC in 2027 for coach Satterfield.

 

[NDdomer2]

This situation is dividing the ND fan base. It is the embodiment of all the abstract debates about "BK is Small-Timey" vs "BK is a Program Developer."

You've got the big-time QB prospect leaving the program, while the scrappy 3-star kid is returning for a third season as The Man. The guy with unlimited potential, and who could take the program to championship heights, has been driven off, and we are "stuck" with the safe choice.

Anybody that has ever been FOR OR AGAINST Brian Kelly has a legitimate leg to stand on right now, all because a backup QB is leaving lol.

This is the Schism of the Church of ND Football.

the funny thing about this is there is nothing about PJ's time at ND that says he can take us to championship heights. It's just the wet dream that everyone had of him from his HS tape/rankings.

I know there's a group that wants to blame Kelly for lack of development. I think there are enough examples out there that show we have developed some qb's to be far greater than what they should have been. It just never seems to be the guy you hope that develops. But I would point to how most of these qb transfers performed at their next location. Not only did they not play well, in fact most of them played even worse. So perhaps Kelly and Co. were already maximizing their talents.

I think the bigger thing to look at in regards to QB's under Kelly is are we doing a good enough job evaluating and identifying the right guys out of HS. We've really improved on this with a lot of other positions but maybe not so much at QB yet. Hopefully Buchner bucks that trend

As far As Driskells comments. Sounds like the only thing saving PJ from leaving would be telling him hes the starter and getting rid of Rees. Maybe that doesnt burn the PJ bridge but it probably sets the ND football bridge on fire in the process. If that's truly PJ's stance then good riddance. Dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

 

[koonja]

You are right that this is a microcosm of a larger debate. Satisfaction with being "above average" vs. striving to be a championship team.

Boom.

There's a difference and a choice between "We can play it safe and be a ~10 win team",

And

"We can also go this route which could get us to 12 wins, but also drop us to 8 wins if hell breaks out".

"The enemy if great is good."

 

[NDdomer2]

Boom.

There's a difference and a choice between "We can play it safe and be a ~10 win team",

And

"We can also go this route which could get us to 12 wins, but also drop us to 8 wins if hell breaks out".

"The enemy if great is good."

8 wins gets people fired and the current state of ND football goes into an unknown oblivion with no real clear cut upgrade for HC.

Then all those people who screamed for PJ because of a maybe are calling for swarbricks head because how could you fire the best coach we've had in 30 years.

You dont try and please the masses, you run the organization for sustained success.

 

[koonja]

8 wins gets people fired and the current state of ND football goes into an unknown oblivion with no real clear cut upgrade for HC.

Then all those people who screamed for PJ because of a maybe are calling for swarbricks head because how could you fire the best coach we've had in 30 years.

You dont try and please the masses, you run the organization for sustained success.

Sustained success got Polini fired at Nebraska. Do we have lower standards?

It's championship time in this day and age. Not "blend in nicely with the upper middle".