'18 PA QB Phil Jurkovec (Wherever I May Roam Chud)

[Irish#1]

Yeah. Him and their new offense lesding the to a NC is also a part of it.

I was as excited as the next guy when Phil signed and I wish him well, but it's evident he's not the guy. You think Kelly wouldn't love to win a NC and have a statue put up outside the stadium? That would put him in rarified air given today's CFB environment. Kelly isn't playing Book over Phil just to play it safe. If Phil had the ability. he'd be playing.

 

[Luckylucci]

You assume 8 wins is the floor. With bad QB play 8 wins is not the floor.

The fact that the coaches have routinely put the tamper on talk of Phil going in, even when Book was struggling, shows that they know that 8 wins (or worse) is far more likely than suddenly being a juggernaut. It's crazy to think that the coaching staff would just sit on Trevor Lawrence if he were on the team given how Book earned his job.

If we go 8 wins, the people who are slinging hot takes everywhere will be the first to call for BK's head and will be talking about how stupid it was to bench a guy who had gone 19-3 as a starter going into his 5th year. I'd love to see BK explain why a starter with respect and chemistry with the team, who's now played on the big stage, who's won repeatedly, AND who practices better than QB2 is benched for QB2. BK's answer at this point would have to be "Well, he was ranked higher coming out of high school by Jamie Uyeyama, so we just thought 'YOLO. Dare to be great and all that'"

Also hurting this narrative is that we went for 12 wins last year, and not only that but Book was the reason we went for 12 wins. We went from barely beating Ball State to torching Stanford in a month. So the idea that we can't win 12 with Book is just demonstrably wrong.

It's just such a strawman argument that a football fan saying "I think the guy that the coaches seem to prefer after watching practice a hundred times, who wins like 87% of his games, and who is coming into his 5th year on a statistical uptick is the better guy for the job" is a mediocrity settling wuss.

Well said. Reps.

 

[koonja]

An all time bad take that Cardale wasn't the answer for OSU's offense so much so that Urban...replaced his championship winning QB with JT Barrett. Lol c'mon Koon. Cardale was limited, he got hot at the right time but proved the year afterwards that it wasn't the same.

That 2015 OSU team was largely the same as the 2014 team, which is why Lax was rightfully worried about a matchup with them in the Fiesta Bowl.

Neither of us can prove this, but no way would I bet on the OSU team to win if Cardale wasn't forced into action.

Cardale Jones takes over in the 3 biggest games of the season and here are the results:

59-0 over Wisconsin in BIG 12 Champ game
42-35 over #1 Alabama
42-20 over #2 Oregon.

They don't make it to #2 with JT Barret playing.

 

[317Irish]

I was as excited as the next guy when Phil signed and I wish him well, but it's evident he's not the guy. You think Kelly wouldn't love to win a NC and have a statue put up outside the stadium? That would put him in rarified air given today's CFB environment. Kelly isn't playing Book over Phil just to play it safe. If Phil had the ability. he'd be playing.

Joe Schmidt

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Neither of us can prove this, but no way would I bet on the OSU team to win if Cardale wasn't forced into action.

Cardale Jones takes over in the 3 biggest games of the season and here are the results:

59-0 over Wisconsin in BIG 12 Champ game
42-35 over #1 Alabama
42-20 over #2 Oregon.

They don't make it to #2 with JT Barret playing.

Maybe but given that Cardale Magic had a pretty short shelf life I'm not sure it is an example for sustained success.

 

[koonja]

Maybe but given that Cardale Magic had a pretty short shelf life I'm not sure it is an example for sustained success.

They were better and won a NC because he was forced to play, while being deemed "not as good as JT" all year.

Does that mean PJ is better than Book and Kelly has made another mistake? No. But it shows that coaches, even the best, get it wrong at the most important position.

 

[zelezo vlk]

They were better and won a NC because he was forced to play, while being deemed "not as good as JT" all year.

Does that mean PJ is better than Book and Kelly has made another mistake? No. But it shows that coaches, even the best, get it wrong at the most important position.

How did he do in 2015, koon?

 

[BobbyMac]

General CB,

Elite QB game average: 19.7/32.1, 224.6 yds, 1.3 td / 0.55 int - 9 car 17 yds 0.4 tds
Book vs Clem + UGA avg: 23/42, 217.5 yds, 1 td / 1.5 int - 10 car 24 yds 0 tds

These #'s are not kinda the same. Ask ISU what they could have done with an extra 28 points this season. 10 extra incompletes could mean 3-6 wasted possessions. One extra T/O could mean the game when Clark Lea is your DC.

There are other factors as important as chewing gum card stats.

3 incomplete deep posts Lenzy are +++ plays compared to 3 step back drops by Finke.

Quality possessions (plays & drives in football) OFTEN times don't produce stats that fans can consume, It's all about aligning the defense for you to have maximum success on the maximum percentage of play/possessions.

 

[koonja]

How did he do in 2015, koon?

In 2015 he split time starts with JT Barret.

In 2015 Cardale Jones was 7-0 as the starter, and lead the team in passing yards and QB rating.

Not that 2015 has anything to do with my point but even if it did... what's yours?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I hope Phil does great wherever he goes but the shitty party of me hopes he bombs so that I never have to see this debate again.

 

[zelezo vlk]

In 2015 he split time starts with JT Barret.

In 2015 Cardale Jones was 7-0 as the starter, and lead the team in passing yards and QB rating.

Not that 2015 has anything to do with my point but even if it did... what's yours?

Cardale lost the job in 2015, because he wasn't the better QB. That's the point

 

[BobbyMac]

I hope Phil does great wherever he goes but the shitty party of me hopes he bombs so that I never have to see this debate again.

That is true.

Most think G Kiel bombed at Cincy. It's rarely debated one way or the other any longer in regards to the What If's and his career simple stats are very similar to Books up to now.

 

[ulukinatme]

I hope Phil does great wherever he goes but the shitty party of me hopes he bombs so that I never have to see this debate again.

I truly hope that Phil ends up killing it at his next stop, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's not going to go to a Florida or a Michigan and light it up. I could see him being successful at a Miami of Ohio or other small program, but it would go against precedent for him to start for a powerhouse like Oklahoma and kill it.

 

[condoms SUCk]

Good luck to the kid, hope he finds a spot that suits him best.
Comments on BK- OK PJ didn't see the field for whatever reason, BK's the coach and that's his call. I'll only say this-ND football DOES go beyond the 2020 season. Clark better get more playing time then just a few plays outside of handing the ball off to run out the clock.

 

[koonja]

Cardale lost the job in 2015, because he wasn't the better QB. That's the point

That has nothing to do him being better in 2014 and Urban being wrong in 2014.

Literally nothing to do with the 2014 decision.

And he was benched, the started again later on. 7-0, led team in yards and QB rating. I'm sure you'll ignore that part.

I lived in freaking Columbus during their title. I worked out at OSU weekly.

Every OSU fan knows Cardale Jones was the better QB once they and the nation saw it.

I have no idea why you're fighting that.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'm trying to gather information. Can we not let this thread get hijacked by Cardale fricking Jones debates please?

 

[NDdomer2]

Maybe it's just me but caring about a kids rankings once he's on campus is like wearing your HS Letterman's jacket after you graduate.

 

[condoms SUCk]

Maybe it's just me but caring about a kids rankings once he's on campus is like wearing your HS Letterman's jacket after you graduate.

^This

 

[koonja]

I'm trying to gather information. Can we not let this thread get hijacked by Cardale fricking Jones debates please?

As soon as the goal post stops moving into 2015 it's done.

2014 OSU was better with Cardale. Urban didn't even know it until he was forced to. Lucky him and lucky for Buckeye nation. No one with an eye ball thinks otherwise.

 

[BobbyMac]

Good luck to the kid, hope he finds a spot that suits him best.
Comments on BK- OK PJ didn't see the field for whatever reason, BK's the coach and that's his call. I'll only say this-ND football DOES go beyond the 2020 season. Clark better get more playing time then just a few plays outside of handing the ball off to run out the clock.

NO one can logically expect this. Kelly takes out QB1 too late MAYBE lets QB2 fling it once or twice and then he goes into Dean Smith's 4 corners. And it's all done behind the second string line most often against the other teams starters.

Why should we expect anything different?

 

[condoms SUCk]

NO one can logically expect this. Kelly takes out QB1 too late MAYBE lets QB2 fling it once or twice and then he goes into Dean Smith's 4 corners. And it's all done behind the second string line most often against the other teams starters.

Why should we expect anything different?

sigh- one can only hope.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

NO one can logically expect this. Kelly takes out QB1 too late MAYBE lets QB2 fling it once or twice and then he goes into Dean Smith's 4 corners. And it's all done behind the second string line most often against the other teams starters.

Why should we expect anything different?

Yeah, this criticism is absolutely on target. Kelly's penchant for stomping the brakes and clock burning isn't as bad as it used to be but it's definitely still there.

 

[IrishLion]

As soon as the goal post stops moving into 2015 it's done.

2014 OSU was better with Cardale. Urban didn't even know it until he was forced to. Lucky him and lucky for Buckeye nation. No one with an eye ball thinks otherwise.

Counterpoint:

The Cardale offense was only viable for a three or four game stretch. It was "QB Power" or "Deep Throw." It was amazing in its simplicity... but this isn't Remember the Titans. A 6-play playbook doesn't work once everyone is sure they've seen all the wrinkles.

Saban would've made Cardale Jones look like Tommy Rees if he would've had an extra game or two on film.

 

[Irish#1]

Joe Schmidt

BVG

 

[Greenore]

I was as excited as the next guy when Phil signed and I wish him well, but it's evident he's not the guy. You think Kelly wouldn't love to win a NC and have a statue put up outside the stadium? That would put him in rarified air given today's CFB environment. Kelly isn't playing Book over Phil just to play it safe. If Phil had the ability. he'd be playing.

This is where I am... or heading to.

I was so happy when PJ committed. To me, it was the second coming of Christ. I'm not a QB mechanics sort of guy. I saw his HS films and domination on the field so I was ecstatic.

A friend of mine, who closely follows all things ND wasn't as optimistic... until he went to the Stanford game. He studied PJ through the warm-ups and texted me that he looked really good and had come a long way.

This isn't a Book thing and likely isn't a CBK thing. It's a PJ thing. I hate that he doesn't want to stay and compete but I recognize he has to look after his own interests. I agree with other posters that his leaving doesn't make a lot of sense unless he is somehow eligible to play the next season.

Would have loved to see him play with the first team for at least a few games but I guess there is a lot of stuff (behind the scenes) that we are not privy to.

Good luck Phil!

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[EddytoNow]

How many of you would stay a third year to be Book's back-up once again knowing that Buchner was coming in the following year?

Kind of like being passed over for a promotion at work for the second time and knowing you're never going to get a promotion or a raise. In a work situation, I know I'd have my resume out already and that I'd interview and jump at any offer that gave me a chance for advancement or more money.

The only ones staying under those conditions are those who lack confidence that they are capable of doing much better if given the opportunity. If I felt confident that I could produce if given the opportunity, I'd be out the door and seeking that opportunity. Why stay where you're not wanted?

And if Jurkovec is really leaving because of some problem with Rees, it sounds like the morale problems on the offensive side of the ball didn't all depart with Chip Long.

 

[matman4593]

Joe Schmidt

Still equally as puzzled and P-Oed as your are...

 

[zelezo vlk]

Counterpoint:

The Cardale offense was only viable for a three or four game stretch. It was "QB Power" or "Deep Throw." It was amazing in its simplicity... but this isn't Remember the Titans. A 6-play playbook doesn't work once everyone is sure they've seen all the wrinkles.

Saban would've made Cardale Jones look like Tommy Rees if he would've had an extra game or two on film.

The ultimate lightning in a bottle moment. That and Nick Foles' run with Philly leading to a Super Bowl.

 

[Irishman77]

I was as excited as the next guy when Phil signed and I wish him well, but it's evident he's not the guy. You think Kelly wouldn't love to win a NC and have a statue put up outside the stadium? That would put him in rarified air given today's CFB environment. Kelly isn't playing Book over Phil just to play it safe. If Phil had the ability. he'd be playing.

You are great poster here. But I Couldn’t disagree more. Kelly ego, Kelly’s playing favorites and his play it safe attitude are why :
1. He never wins a big game
2. If our top talent stays through all the BS they are one year wonders
3. Elite talent won’t come here or leave when they get black balled

With that said Kelly is a solid coach that will win all the should win games.

 

[benneboy]

You are great poster here. But I Couldn’t disagree more. Kelly ego, Kelly’s playing favorites and his play it safe attitude are why :
1. He never wins a big game
2. If our top talent stays through all the BS they are one year wonders
3. Elite talent won’t come here or leave when they get black balled

With that said Kelly is a solid coach that will win all the should win games.

You want to make an argument for 1 fine. You have almost no evidence to support 2 and 3. Unless you're basing your argument on a TE who will be drafted first at his position and a QB still ironing out the mechanics of a spiral. You think Kyle Hamilton is a one hit wonder? Cause he took a lot of PT from upperclassmen.