'18 PA QB Phil Jurkovec (Wherever I May Roam Chud)

[Irish#1]

You are great poster here. But I Couldn’t disagree more. Kelly ego, Kelly’s playing favorites and his play it safe attitude are why :
1. He never wins a big game
2. If our top talent stays through all the BS they are one year wonders
3. Elite talent won’t come here or leave when they get black balled

With that said Kelly is a solid coach that will win all the should win games.

Finally someone recognizes my talent! lol

Is he really playing it safe? Most coaches are very competitive and want to win. I can't imagine BK is satisfied just having a winning program especially since we've been knocking on the door the last three years.

I won't argue about playing favorites earlier, but we've not really seen it since BVG was let go. Like Geenore said, we're not privy to everything going on, so there can be a number of reasons someone isn't starting or seeing more playing time. We've seen BK make a lot of changes over the last few years. That's not playing it safe IMO.

What did you see in Phil to make you think he should be the starter?

 

[General Colon Bowel]

General CB,



These #'s are not kinda the same. Ask ISU what they could have done with an extra 28 points this season. 10 extra incompletes could mean 3-6 wasted possessions. One extra T/O could mean the game when Clark Lea is your DC.

There are other factors as important as chewing gum card stats.

3 incomplete deep posts Lenzy are +++ plays compared to 3 step back drops by Finke.

Quality possessions (plays & drives in football) OFTEN times don't produce stats that fans can consume, It's all about aligning the defense for you to have maximum success on the maximum percentage of play/possessions.

That's fair. My main point was that the running game was significantly further off from being playoff caliber than the quarterback play when facing elite defenses.

I am in total agreement that more deep shots, even if incomplete, would go a long way for this offense. Hopefully with the emergence of Lenzy we will put some focus on game planning some deep shots next year.

 

[Circa]

Joe Schmidt

I'm confused as to why we are relating Joe to Phil... It's apples to oranges and the fact that Joe was the quarterback of the defense Is the reason he started. (I guess I just answered my own question), but It's just not the same... Joe was able to get guys lined up and understood BVG's complexities.
Why are some of us still worried about Joe anyway? In hindsight, he played next to Jaylon and was the leader of that D.

Go ask Jaylon Smith what Joe had to bring to the D...

 

[ACamp1900]

You are great poster here. but,...

Finally someone recognizes my talent! ?

No disrespect, and with all due respect, I simply have no respect for you at all.

 

[Circa]

No disrespect, and with all due respect, I simply have no respect for you at all.

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[Irish#1]

No disrespect, and with all due respect, I simply have no respect for you at all.

You are officially off of my Xmas card list.

 

[EddytoNow]

Finally someone recognizes my talent! lol

Is he really playing it safe? Most coaches are very competitive and want to win. I can't imagine BK is satisfied just having a winning program especially since we've been knocking on the door the last three years.

I won't argue about playing favorites earlier, but we've not really seen it since BVG was let go. Like Geenore said, we're not privy to everything going on, so there can be a number of reasons someone isn't starting or seeing more playing time. We've seen BK make a lot of changes over the last few years. That's not playing it safe IMO.

What did you see in Phil to make you think he should be the starter?

That's the problem. We didn't see enough of Phil to know if he deserved to play more. Phil's game time was limited to handing the ball off to third and fourth string running backs behind a second string offensive line. Does anybody have Phil's passing stats for his career? Did he ever play in a real game with the starting offensive line and top receivers on the field?

I think the reason there is such a wide disparity of opinion regarding Phil is that Kelly played him so infrequently, usually with under two minutes remaining and a large lead. All we ever saw him do was hand the ball off and run out the clock.

I wish Phil well at his new school and hope he gets the opportunity he never had at Notre Dame. A top-five quarterback who seldom saw the field. More fodder for negatively recruiting future quarterback prospects. I can hear it now, "Why would you want to go to Notre Dame? That's where highly-rated quarterbacks sit for three years before transferring."

 

[stlnd01]

That's the problem. We didn't see enough of Phil to know if he deserved to play more. Phil's game time was limited to handing the ball off to third and fourth string running backs behind a second string offensive line. Does anybody have Phil's passing stats for his career? Did he ever play in a real game with the starting offensive line and top receivers on the field?

I think the reason there is such a wide disparity of opinion regarding Phil is that Kelly played him so infrequently, usually with under two minutes remaining and a large lead. All we ever saw him do was hand the ball off and run out the clock.

No, we didn't see that much of Phil. But the coaches did. And despite Phil's recruiting pedigree they decided Book gave them a better chance to win. This doesn't seem that complicated.

 

[arrowryan]

Ian Book's recent Instagram post might be a shot at Phil. The caption said "Circle got smaller" and his location was Hard Rock Stadium aka the location for the 2021 national championship.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7HvgHTnxbE/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[pumpdog20]

Book is a savage.

 

[spoonidentity]

Equal parts ND Talking Heads equal parts PJ. Prister still firing shots earlier today (see ND Talking Heads posts). But the subtext about PJ's family being disgruntled? Any one want to connect some dots here?

Regarding Rees...He is a quality football coach with strong communication skills. He has spent his entire life in football. He knows how to be coached and how to coach. To create stories based upon information from disgruntled families of players who can't crack the lineup is unfair, one-sided and horrible journalism.

https://247sports.com/college/notre...vec-relationship-141886249/?page=4#M141915537

 

[greyhammer90]

Equal parts ND Talking Heads equal parts PJ. Prister still firing shots earlier today (see ND Talking Heads posts). But the subtext about PJ's family being disgruntled? Any one want to connect some dots here?




https://247sports.com/college/notre...vec-relationship-141886249/?page=4#M141915537

This is also notable from the same thread:

How many strained relationships with coaches is a player allowed before we consider the possibility that maybe it's the player that is culpible? Tommy Rees is the ultimate player's coach.

Prister bringing heat on Driskell.

 

[BobbyMac]

No, we didn't see that much of Phil. But the coaches did. And despite Phil's recruiting pedigree they decided Book gave them a better chance to win. This doesn't seem that complicated.

BUT in the games where the game WAS WON by half, he still brought Book out for a couple series in the 2nd half and gave Phil minimal full go reps, quickly going into the four corners... always with other 2nd stringers. QB2's need some time with OL1's especially when OL2 is so young.

I'll complain about the same thing when he does it to QB2 next year. It's not smart. Protect your QB1 when the game is in hand while improving QB2... who's your current insurance policy AND your future QB1.

 

[BobbyMac]

This is also notable from the same thread:

How many strained relationships with coaches is a player allowed before we consider the possibility that maybe it's the player that is culpible? Tommy Rees is the ultimate player's coach.

Prister bringing heat on Driskell.

Thanks Hammer. This is what I figured, his relationship with TR and/or BK was the factor driving the need to leave now. Made no sense to leave now unless the relationship was toxic... at least in Phil's eyes.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

There's a narrative on this board that seems to pin our inability to get over the hump against top teams on Book's play, but when you look at the numbers it doesn't make sense.

Book's performance against Georgia and Clemson over the past two years is pretty similar to how elite quarterbacks generally compare against Top 10 defenses. I went back over the past two seasons and looked at how Lawrence, Fields, Burrow, Daniel Jones, Tua, Hurts, Jordan Love, Justin Herbert, and Dwayne Haskins fared against top 10 defenses (Murray didn't face any).

Compare these elite QBs' 22 games against elite defenses in '18 + '19 to Book's 2 games:

Elite QB game average: 19.7/32.1, 224.6 yds, 1.3 td / 0.55 int - 9 car 17 yds 0.4 tds
Book vs Clem + UGA avg: 23/42, 217.5 yds, 1 td / 1.5 int - 10 car 24 yds 0 tds

Versus the run support elite qbs got in these games compared to Book's (this would be rushing totals minus rushing stats generated by the QBs themselves):

Elite rushing support avg: 27.55 car, 157.3 yards, 1.27 TDs, 5.71 ypc
Book's rush support avg: 14 car, 45 yards, 0 TDs, 3.21 ypc

The stark contrast is in the rushing numbers, not the qb play.

Book has turned the ball over more than an elite qb should in these games, but he also received zero run support.

Book can quarterback at a championship level. We cannot run the ball at a championship level against elite defenses. That is the biggest issue holding back this team

This all day. I've made the exact argument but people have blinders on and want to blame the 3 star QB

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Interesting data. What's difficult to determine is whether or not Book's limitations as a passer plays a role in the disappointing run game, and if it does, to what extent.

A big arm elite passer who is willing to take shots downfield, i.e., Lawrence, opens up the run game, even against elite defenses.

Overall the run game was good with Dexter last year. Clemson was just a different animal. But this year we have really struggled to run and Book has thrown the ball more down field this year. I honestly believe the lack of a rushing threat has hurt this offense more than Book's struggle to pass down field.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Touche. Each situation is different though. We had an elite WR with a elite speed WR this year. Book was struggling mightily.

I wanted to see the "Cardale Jones" offense wirh punishing QB runs and long bombs that open the whole field. PJ was no doubt the QB for that offense.


If JT Daniels doesn't get hurt, OSU doesn't reach their potential with Cardale and they don't win a title.

Even the greatesr Coaches get it wrong.

Claypool does not have elite speed. Elite receiver perhaps, but not Tee Higgins or Justyn Ross elite.

Also, one elite receiver does not a passing game make. Especially when you lack any sort of big play capability anywhere else. No defense was sweating having to defend Tony Jones or Chris Finke. It wasn't until Lenzy began seeing more time that defenses had to account for him more and that opened up more opportunities for Claypool.

Ohio State made it to the Big Ten championship game with Barrett (not Daniels). Also, it had less to do with Jones and more to do with Meyer realizing he had a generational talent in Zeke and he rode him. He had two big play threats at receiver in Devin Allen and Michael Thomas and he focused on them.

Keep in mind that Barrett led Ohio State into East Lansing, against one of the best defenses in CFB that year, and put up 49 points and 570 yards of offense, 386 of which was him.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Overall the run game was good with Dexter last year. Clemson was just a different animal. But this year we have really struggled to run and Book has thrown the ball more down field this year. I honestly believe the lack of a rushing threat has hurt this offense more than Book's struggle to pass down field.

Not just RB, but having no big play threat for pretty much all season really hurt the offense.

Lenzy flashed some big play potential, but we need more than that.

 

[Irish#1]

No, we didn't see that much of Phil. But the coaches did. And despite Phil's recruiting pedigree they decided Book gave them a better chance to win. This doesn't seem that complicated.

This is where I'm at.

That's the problem. We didn't see enough of Phil to know if he deserved to play more.

BUT in the games where the game WAS WON by half, he still brought Book out for a couple series in the 2nd half and gave Phil minimal full go reps, quickly going into the four corners... always with other 2nd stringers. QB2's need some time with OL1's especially when OL2 is so young.

I agree that Phil could have been put in earlier, but from what I've watched over the years most backups don't come in until sometime in the fourth quarter. Having said that, why do you think BK waited so late to put him in? Could it be he was struggling to learn the offense as has been noted?

I just find it hard to believe BK wouldn't play a 4 star QB who is a legitimate deep ball threat (we all know how that opens up the defense) if he was ready to contribute, especially earlier in the season when Book was struggling.

 

[stlnd01]

BUT in the games where the game WAS WON by half, he still brought Book out for a couple series in the 2nd half and gave Phil minimal full go reps, quickly going into the four corners... always with other 2nd stringers. QB2's need some time with OL1's especially when OL2 is so young.

I'll complain about the same thing when he does it to QB2 next year. It's not smart. Protect your QB1 when the game is in hand while improving QB2... who's your current insurance policy AND your future QB1.

I agree with all this. I've never gotten why BK doesn't give his QB2 more/better-quality reps in garbage time.
But I think people saying how Phil never got "his shot" or that we "never got to see if he's good enough" may misunderestimate what goes on between January and August and Sunday and Friday.

 

[arrowryan]

Tim Prister stated in his article yesterday that people in the Gug said that Phil didn't seem all-in in the film room and wasn't dialing in on what it took to be a starting quarterback in big time college football.

If this is accurate, Phil doesn't deserve more playing time when its a blowout. Give those snaps to Brendan Clark (which he did). I'll always support Brian Kelly for not rewarding half ass effort.

 

[matman4593]

I'm confused as to why we are relating Joe to Phil... It's apples to oranges and the fact that Joe was the quarterback of the defense Is the reason he started. (I guess I just answered my own question), but It's just not the same... Joe was able to get guys lined up and understood BVG's complexities.
Why are some of us still worried about Joe anyway? In hindsight, he played next to Jaylon and was the leader of that D.

Go ask Jaylon Smith what Joe had to bring to the D...

Jaylon Smith literally played 2 positions simultaneously to compensate for Joe Schmidt's utter lack of athleticism. Starting him over Nyles Morgan at any point in time for any reason was CRIMINAL

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Tim Prister stated in his article yesterday that people in the Gug said that Phil didn't seem all-in in the film room and wasn't dialing in on what it took to be a starting quarterback in big time college football.

If this is accurate, Phil doesn't deserve more playing time when its a blowout. Give those snaps to Brendan Clark (which he did). I'll always support Brian Kelly for not rewarding half ass effort.

Damage control. There is one thing that no one can question is that BKelly made a conscious decision not to play Phil in garbage time. Even when he was put in, play calling was limited to hand offs. He is a young man who might have needed more attention...who knows? Maybe things were easy for him in HS and this experience will toughen and motivate him. Wish Phil well where ever he goes.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Jaylon Smith literally played 2 positions simultaneously to compensate for Joe Schmidt's utter lack of athleticism. Starting him over Nyles Morgan at any point in time for any reason was CRIMINAL

I agree. It also delayed Morgan’s development.

 

[arrowryan]

Damage control. There is one thing that no one can question is that BKelly made a conscious decision not to play Phil in garbage time. Even when he was put in, play calling was limited to hand offs. He is a young man who might have needed more attention...who knows? Maybe things were easy for him in HS and this experience will toughen and motivate him. Wish Phil well where ever he goes.

Well it kinda makes sense. If a guy doesn't show the effort in the film room and probably has trouble reading defenses, why would you let him throw it?

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Well it kinda makes sense. If a guy doesn't show the effort in the film room and probably has trouble reading defenses, why would you let him throw it?

To develop him. To connect the film room to live game action. Live game action is a motivator because no one wants to be embarrassed in a game.

 

[greyhammer90]

Jaylon Smith literally played 2 positions simultaneously to compensate for Joe Schmidt's utter lack of athleticism. Starting him over Nyles Morgan at any point in time for any reason was CRIMINAL

CRIMINAL.

Damn y'all are funny.

 

[Wingman Ray]

To develop him. To connect the film room to live game action. Live game action is a motivator because no one wants to be embarrassed in a game.

If da guy sucks, da guy sucks...

I agree, I dont know why he wouldnt have had more mop up time but again, let me stress that we dont have most of the info so we cant make valid arguments one way or another. To make judgment and condemn BK when we really dont have the info isnt the correct thing to do.

 

[NDohio]

If da guy sucks, da guy sucks...

I agree, I dont know why he wouldnt have had more mop up time but again, let me stress that we dont have most of the info so we cant make valid arguments one way or another. To make judgment and condemn BK when we really dont have the info isnt the correct thing to do.

That's CRIMINAL!!

 

[317Irish]

Jaylon Smith literally played 2 positions simultaneously to compensate for Joe Schmidt's utter lack of athleticism. Starting him over Nyles Morgan at any point in time for any reason was CRIMINAL

Bingo.