Stars and Rankings Are Overrated

[NDinL.A.]

Ishaq going to be a good player for us and will get drafted on day 2. Too early to write max off, plus he was barely a 5 star I thought, only by lkke one site? No argument with christ.

James Aldridge is a good one. Sam Young was a star here and I believe started 4 straight years, so no idea how he made your list. Also, Gunner is a star and will be a NFL pick.

Gunner Kiel is not a star yet. C'mon.

And I'll bet you any amount of $$$ you want that Ishaq isn't drafted in the first two rounds of next year's draft.

As to the OP, the premise of the article is flawed IMO. The proportion of 5 stars who make the league to 3 stars who make the league isn't even close.

3 stars are invaluable to many teams, but you still need the 5 stars.

 

[koonja]

Gunner Kiel is not a star yet. C'mon.

And I'll bet you any amount of $$$ you want that Ishaq isn't drafted in the first two rounds of next year's draft.

As to the OP, the premise of the article is flawed IMO. The proportion of 5 stars who make the league to 3 stars who make the league isn't even close.

3 stars are invaluable to many teams, but you still need the 5 stars.

I actually didn't even know the 2nd day ended with the 2nd round. I thought they did the 2nd and 3rd rounds on the 2nd day and the rest on the 3rd day. I obviously don't watch much NFL.

If you want, I'll bet vbucks that Ishaq is drafted in the 3rd round or earlier IFF he comes back to ND and doesn't have a serious injury.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I actually didn't even know the 2nd day ended with the 2nd round. I thought they did the 2nd and 3rd rounds on the 2nd day and the rest on the 3rd day. I obviously don't watch much NFL.

If you want, I'll bet vbucks that Ishaq is drafted in the 3rd round or earlier IFF he comes back to ND and doesn't have a serious injury.

That makes more sense.

I haven't used my bucks in years, but I'll take that bet. 10,000,000? (Sounds like a lot...I have no idea lol). And I hope I lose.

 

[koonja]

That makes more sense.

I haven't used my bucks in years, but I'll take that bet. 10,000,000? (Sounds like a lot...I have no idea lol). And I hope I lose.

Deal. And 10,000,000 is plenty. IDC if it's 1 vbuck or a billion. I just want to beat you.

Ishaq, 3rd round or better. If he doesn't come to ND and/or suffers a major injury, bet is off. We can argue about what is 'major' when it actually happens, lol. If he ends up at a legit school other than ND, I'll consider keeping the bet but have the option.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Day 2 is indeed both 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

[woolybug25]

I agree that having 2 five star recruits on your roster is a good amount. But then look at Bama, they have 6 in just this recruiting class!

I understand that it's a fact that the recent championship teams have had great recruiting classes. But I wouldn't say that all of their success is because of 5 stars.

And it's also a fact that you don't need 5 stars do have great seasons. Look at TCU, Georgia Tech, Michigan State, Baylor, Arizona, and Wisconsin

None of those teams you listed have won a title recently, have they?

I never said that the amount of five stars decides how good a team is, I said that the best teams in college football consistently have great recruiting classes. Which means they are loaded with quality 4* guys and get their share of 5* players. Your comments an the article you posted try to allude to the fact that they don't correlate to success, which is completely false.

 

[woolybug25]

Add to that list:

James Aldridge

Sam Young

Gunner Kiel

Greg Bryant

Sam Young? A four year starter and a dude that has played quality NFL games?

Gunner Kiel, who in his first season played excellent for Cinci?

Greg Bryant who has played well, albeit limited, and has three years of eligibility left?

Those are your versions of flops? That's crazy. Also, pulling random names out of a bunch of former five star players as proof that they aren't worth it is silly. I'll play the devils advacate.

Jimmy Clausen
Michael Floyd
Jaylon Smith
Stephon Tuitt

 

[arrowryan]

None of those teams you listed have won a title recently, have they?

I never said that the amount of five stars decides how good a team is, I said that the best teams in college football consistently have great recruiting classes. Which means they are loaded with quality 4* guys and get their share of 5* players. Your comments an the article you posted try to allude to the fact that they don't correlate to success, which is completely false.

Would you say this pretty well describes Notre Dame?

 

[kmoose]

Sam Young? A four year starter and a dude that has played quality NFL games?

Gunner Kiel, who in his first season played excellent for Cinci?

Greg Bryant who has played well, albeit limited, and has three years of eligibility left?

Those are your versions of flops? That's crazy. Also, pulling random names out of a bunch of former five star players as proof that they aren't worth it is silly. I'll play the devils advacate.

Jimmy Clausen
Michael Floyd
Jaylon Smith
Stephon Tuitt

FFS.......... Does anyone actually read what is posted? I never said that any of those guys were flops in College Football. Koon asked:

When's the last time ND had a 5 star that wasn't a premier player for us?

What Kiel has done at Cincinnati is immaterial to Koon's question, because he specifically asked "...... for us?"

Bryant's future is also immaterial. He had 300 yards rushing this year. Do you consider that "premier"? Hell, for that matter; how can you call a guy "premier" when he isn't even the starter?

 

[Irishnuke]

Why are we debating this bullshit again?

 

[Irishnuke]

I don't have any stats to back this up but I'm pretty sure the percentage of
5 stars who flop and don't make the NFL is still lower than the percentage of
3 stars or less that do.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I don't have any stats to back this up but I'm pretty sure the percentage of
5 stars who flop and don't make the NFL is still lower than the percentage of
3 stars or less that do.

Kind of a skewed comparison though. There are WAY more 2-3 star guys than 5-stars. I think the difference is, I'll take a 3-star guy from Notre Dame over a 3-star guy from Central Michigan if they're given an equal opportunity on the field. Better coaching, coaching S&C programs.

I think it's not a matter of comparing 3-star guys all over the country, but ones that go to major college football powers.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Deal. And 10,000,000 is plenty. IDC if it's 1 vbuck or a billion. I just want to beat you.

Ishaq, 3rd round or better. If he doesn't come to ND and/or suffers a major injury, bet is off. We can argue about what is 'major' when it actually happens, lol. If he ends up at a legit school other than ND, I'll consider keeping the bet but have the option.

Done.

I wouldn't worry about 'major'. It'll be easy to tell and I won't be a dick about it.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't care what five stars do in the NFL... What do they do in college... Mostly, win championships.

 

[NCND]

I don't care what five stars do in the NFL... What do they do in college... Mostly, win championships.

+1

 

[pkt77242]

Why are we debating this bullshit again?

Because we like to:

 

[vinnymac2402]

Biggest take away from that article

funny thing is he is at the prison I work at

 

[Bishop2b5]

I don't have any stats to back this up but I'm pretty sure the percentage of
5 stars who flop and don't make the NFL is still lower than the percentage of
3 stars or less that do.

SI published an article a few years ago that was informative. As a gauge of a player's success in college, they used being selected in the first three rounds of the NFL draft. Here's what they found:

5-star recruits - 50% would go on to be drafted in the first 3 rounds.

4-star recruits - 10% would go on to be drafted in the first 3 rounds.

3-star recruits - 3% would go on to be drafted in the first 3 rounds.

2-star and lower - less than 1% would go on to be drafted in the first 3 rounds.

 

[Irish YJ]

Is it even a debate? Star rankings matter, just look at the recent champions. All have recruited at or near the top based on STAR ratings:

OSU
FSU
Alabama
Alabama
Auburn
Alabama
LSU
Florida
Texas
USC.

This is the only thing that's relevant in the case of CFB with a little coaching sprinkled in.....

 

[GBdomer]

Teams that usually recruit 5 star kids usually get 5 star results with the player and the program record wise. Usually the best teams recruit the best players. But they need to fit a system and a culture. That's why I think you see Oregon and TCU do well with lesser talent then the 5 star schools. But Oregon recruits 4 and 5 stars that also fit there system. 10 years ago they weren't and that
Just shows right there how much winning helps
In recruiting. But it's just as important to recruit around home and develop kids and get those so called "3 stars" who can devolp into 4 and 5 star players and people.

I'll take recruiting 4 and 5 stars any day over recruiting 3 stars and "RKGS". But you still need to recruit those kids and every school does so not sure if I undestamd the thread.

 

[Monk]

I think the stats go to show you how well steroids can impact mediocre athletes

 

[Huntr]

What the OP said, except the exact opposite.

 

[palinurus]

How many five star players are on teams that win titles in college?

I don't care what they do in the the NFL, all I know is that the five stars in college usually do pretty well and the teams that load their rosters with a bunch of 4 and 5 star kids are the ones winning all of the titles.

I'm sure the lack of any 5 star players in our class has nothing to do with this topic, right?

I think this is the more accurate analysis: there are a lot of very good college players -- even great college players -- who never make the pros or don't well in the pros (e.g., Gary Beban, Ryan Leaf, George Rogers, I could go on forever). And a lot of guys from West B-F College (e.g., Jerry Rice) or went to big football schools and were maybe good, but weren't CFB Hall of Famers (e.g., our own Joe Montana) who are among the greatest pros. It's a different calculation.

Anyway, here's an interesting article -- showing how last year's five stars did as first year players (not all freshmen, because some were red shirted):

247Sports Recruiting Rankings 2014 Class Leonard Fournette

What I might try to do is cross reference this list against the freshmen all star teams for 2014:

College Football's 2014 Postseason All-Freshman Team | AthlonSports.com

But on a quick glance, there's a lot of overlap. It's better to have five stars if you can get them; not all five stars will play like five stars, but I'd guess a higher percentage of five stars do than do three stars. Of course, you can win with four stars and three stars -- Kelly himself did it at Cincy -- and look at teams like Baylor or TCU, eg -- they probably haven't been in Top Ten of recruiting very much the last five years (though I haven't looked). But 5 star talent sure helps.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

What the OP said, except the exact opposite.

Word.

 

[irishtrain]

Id like to see a thread opened up along these lines talking about the importance of administration cooperation for the coach. Saban/Myer/Carrol/Switzer/Devaney/Bryant(hell he was the cooperation)Royal/Miami's bunch when winning etc. To me its what makes these guys successful not the fact that they are head and shoulders above everyone else. Myer is not at Notre Dame today because his request of 3 players per year allowed in no questions asked was denied (that would be in 4 years 1/2 your starters). Because of this I'll take Kelly in the top 5. Recruiting is based on help from the admissions office, not how well the guy recruits. If you put Mr. Great National Recruiter at Harvard he aint bringing in a top 10 recruiting class.