Rumored Violations

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

It's that easy, huh?

What do fundamentals matter when you don't know your assignment?

Rice isn't going to make it easy on the defense. They're going to use to use play action, motion, shifting, formation and quick snaps to keep the defense guessing.

Let's assume the pre-snap call is man (we're blitzing) and then Rice sends a man in motion, bringing trips to one side of the field. Schmidt checks the blitz off b/c of the formation change - now we're in a zone. Ball is snapped quick, KVR shows off his great fundamentals, plays man, and jumps all over the five yard out. Unfortunately, the slot receiver is running a corner route to the deep zone he should be covering. He's taking it for six while fans are bitching about Austin Collinsworth being "soooo fucking slow he can't even get to the sideline".

Next series, Ishaq is supposed to stunt. Man comes in motion towards his side and the stunt is checked off. Ishaq gets the call, knows not to stunt but he's lined up in a tight five technique b/c has going to shoot the inside gap. He needs to move to the outside shoulder a bit to make certain he's not hooked. Ball is snapped and that motion receiver, the one who lined up awkwardly close to the line of scrimmage, comes crashing down to bury him and seal the edge. He had great form, though. Stayed low and fired off the ball.

Fatigue will increase mental mistakes as well. These guys aren't completely out of shape after two weeks but they're no where near game shape. It'll be hot and humid on Saturday, and they'll be sucking wind carrying all those pads/wearing that helmet.

The only way a team like Rice can come to SB and win is if we make too many mental mistakes. I'll take the guys who know exactly what they're doing this week.

It's that hard, huh?

Let's assume that they've continued their studying and they aren't completely ignorant of the calls made by our staff. Let's assume they don't have retrograde amnesia, brought on by the academic scandal, and haven't forgotten everything they've learned. Let's also assume that the new guys who step up in their place won't automatically understand the defense "so much better" because they've been in practice for the last 1.5 weeks.

I believe our guys are smart enough to understand the game plan, even if they aren't allowed to practice (since they are still around the team).

As to the conditioning: I don't think they have to play every snap of the game but I believe KVR and IW would/will still be starters if they are cleared by EOD Wednesday.

but as Greyhammer flippantly said, "heart and desire"

 

[dshans]

.... Something something heart something something desire ...

Something something will something something pride something something grit ...




This applies to all who see the field, without regard to circumstance.

 

[IrishLax]

I hate this thread but I'll post:

At Scout there is a guy saying there are no more football players involved (assuming current), there are other athletes involved (no basketball though) and wins will be vacated. Of note the moderators and long time members (including the writers) have said this is a credible source. O'Malley also noted credible sources can be wrong but this guy isn't running his mouth inappropriately. This same guy also knew of the initial report 5 days before it became public. TIFWIW.

Yeah, sounds like we're fucked then. Hollywood has a very good source who said that everything is basically a done deal and everyone is fucked, but I don't know if he said anything about wins. Gk has pretty consistently indicated that he'd be surprised if the players ended up playing this year. So now this is like 3 different grade A sources that are saying that the players are done and/or we're vacating.

I had a decent athletic department source indicate a week or so ago that the investigation was widespread and the compliance department had advocated vacating wins. But there was also some glimmer of hope stuff he said... but if this guy on Scout is that in the loop then we're almost surely screwed.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Well that sucks.

 

[BobbyMac]

Sky is falling 11.0

They gone.

.

 

[NDRock]

Yeah, sounds like we're fucked then. Hollywood has a very good source who said that everything is basically a done deal and everyone is fucked, but I don't know if he said anything about wins. Gk has pretty consistently indicated that he'd be surprised if the players ended up playing this year. So now this is like 3 different grade A sources that are saying that the players are done and/or we're vacating.

I had a decent athletic department source indicate a week or so ago that the investigation was widespread and the compliance department had advocated vacating wins. But there was also some glimmer of hope stuff he said... but if this guy on Scout is that in the loop then we're almost surely screwed.

Agree. I've not really been to optimistic from the beginning. It seemed strange that they would bring up vacating wins and do the whole press conference thing if there wasn't quite a bit of damning evidence. I'll still hope for the best.

 

[Wild Bill]

It's that hard, huh?

Let's assume that they've continued their studying and they aren't completely ignorant of the calls made by our staff. Let's assume they don't have retrograde amnesia, brought on by the academic scandal, and haven't forgotten everything they've learned. Let's also assume that the new guys who step up in their place won't automatically understand the defense "so much better" because they've been in practice for the last 1.5 weeks.

I believe our guys are smart enough to understand the game plan, even if they aren't allowed to practice (since they are still around the team).

As to the conditioning: I don't think they have to play every snap of the game but I believe KVR and IW would/will still be starters if they are cleared by EOD Wednesday.

but as Greyhammer flippantly said, "heart and desire"

Yes, it is that difficult. My concern isn't that they won't know their own defense. My concern is that they do not know how their defense will defend Rice's offense. This is not a situation where a player is injured and can take mental reps at practice, attend meetings and watch film with the team. To my understanding, they have no access to practice or meetings. Do they even know Rice's base offense? Their formations? Their blocking scheme? You're underestimating how much information must be processed every snap. The devil is in the details.

I think it's really optimistic to assume they'd start if cleared Wednesday. That would give them one full pad practice Thursday and a walk through on Friday. Maybe they are football sponges and can cram ten pounds of shit into a five pound bag. I'm not overly concerned about conditioning. It's just one more thing to consider.

 

[ACamp1900]

Veritate Duce Progredi and Irish19 win the pointless debate award if what lax and hollywood are hearing turns out to pass...

 

[Wild Bill]

Veritate Duce Progredi and Irish19 win the pointless debate award if what lax and hollywood are hearing turns out to pass...

We're both in denial. It hurts so bad.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Veritate Duce Progredi and Irish19 win the pointless debate award if what lax and hollywood are hearing turns out to pass...

On a positive note, it did help me get by this beautiful monday.

And I gotta go with To Advance with Truth as our Leader on this one.

 

[IrishLax]

Agree. I've not really been to optimistic from the beginning. It seemed strange that they would bring up vacating wins and do the whole press conference thing if there wasn't quite a bit of damning evidence. I'll still hope for the best.

The one thing I'll say is that there might be a LOT of evidence, but it was indicated to me that very little of it was in the "smoking gun" category relative to the current players, and that there was little to no evidence of this being an institutional control issue that would warrant vacating wins, so there was pushback from some on this idea. That was the "glimmer of hope" stuff.

 

[Irish#1]

This went from doom and gloom, to hope and promise and now we're back to doom and gloom. Hang on. If we don't get an official announcement this week, we'll probably go into another hope and promise phase.

 

[koonja]

This went from doom and gloom, to hope and promise and now we're back to doom and gloom. Hang on. If we don't get an official announcement this week, we'll probably go into another hope and promise phase.

Not so fast my friend. I'm still in the hope and promise mode. If it gets to the end of the week and nothing's been said or announced, I'll switch my view, but nothing I've seen today has change my optimism.

The 10 million bet I have with someone on them being back for Michigan. I'll tripple my pay out if I'm wrong.

 

[Irish Insanity]

If YOU'RE going to diss someone, at least use proper grammar....

I hope everyone noes bye now eye rarely ever use proper gramer

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

We're both in denial. It hurts so bad.

This was such a good distraction, I started to actually believe we were getting them back.

On a positive note, it did help me get by this beautiful monday.

And I gotta go with To Advance with Truth as our Leader on this one.

If you are the leader of the mentally challenged group, you're still mentally challenged. Aka - none of this means anything if we truly are losing those four. All of my predictions are void for the season.

Raining. Lighting. Doom. Gloom.

What a shitty Monday

 

[wizards8507]

The one thing I'll say is that there might be a LOT of evidence, but it was indicated to me that very little of it was in the "smoking gun" category relative to the current players, and that there was little to no evidence of this being an institutional control issue that would warrant vacating wins, so there was pushback from some on this idea. That was the "glimmer of hope" stuff.

How would "lack of institutional control" even be the slightest possibility? Isn't THIS INVESTIGATION itself exactly what "institutional control" means? You can't stop kids from cheating so the fact that we're busting them for doing so is absolutely institutional control.

Do we have any clarity on the timeline here? The possibility of vacating wins means that the cheating happened last football season at the latest. If cheating happened last football season at the latest, why is this just coming out now?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Well this thread sucks again. Can somebody serve up some rainbow ice cream out of a unicorn horn? I liked those posts better....

 

[NDRock]

The one thing I'll say is that there might be a LOT of evidence, but it was indicated to me that very little of it was in the "smoking gun" category relative to the current players, and that there was little to no evidence of this being an institutional control issue that would warrant vacating wins, so there was pushback from some on this idea. That was the "glimmer of hope" stuff.

Do you think we'll vacate wins for this?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

One question: If they are guilty and will be explelled, or whatever, why hasn't Kendall Moore transferred out yet for his 5th year? He is loosing precious time.

 

[BobbyMac]

How would "lack of institutional control" even be the slightest possibility? Isn't THIS INVESTIGATION itself exactly what "institutional control" means? You can't stop kids from cheating so the fact that we're busting them for doing so is absolutely institutional control.

Do we have any clarity on the timeline here? The possibility of vacating wins means that the cheating happened last football season at the latest. If cheating happened last football season at the latest, why is this just coming out now?

I doubt there is anything that will get to the Lack of Institutional Control" level unless we find out there has been a group of trainers/tudors/groupies... that have been doing papers/projects for a multitude of players over an extended period of time. If there has been a group like this existing without the school or athletic program knowing it... then they may have something.

I doubt it though.

.

 

[IrishLax]

How would "lack of institutional control" even be the slightest possibility? Isn't THIS INVESTIGATION itself exactly what "institutional control" means? You can't stop kids from cheating so the fact that we're busting them for doing so is absolutely institutional control.

Do we have any clarity on the timeline here? The possibility of vacating wins means that the cheating happened last football season at the latest. If cheating happened last football season at the latest, why is this just coming out now?

I hear you loud and clear. The mantra inside ND compliance right now seems to be act conservatively to demonstrate institutional control. I don't get it. And I don't think the higher ups truly appreciate how their actions will leave an irreversible stain on ND like there has never been before.

Towards a timeline, this is the one thing where I have absolutely no clue. I don't know what kicked off this whole mess.

Do you think we'll vacate wins for this?

Can't say but scuttlebutt right now seems to point that direction. The vast majority of the "fact finding" has already happened so if people right now are saying we're going to vacate I'd bet on that but I don't think its set in stone.

 

[BobbyMac]

One question: If they are guilty and will be explelled, or whatever, why hasn't Kendall Moore transferred out yet for his 5th year? He is loosing precious time.

Great question. I said the same thing...

You'd think Diaco could use him at UConn. Maybe Diaco wouldn't touch him?

Martin at Miami too?

Hmmmm? Either he's too guilty to touch or... he's so innocent that he thinks he's gonna beat the investigation(?)

.

 

[IrishLax]

The last thing I'll say is that academics and athletics need to be decoupled here.

Whether any of the four are cleared of wrongdoing by an honor code committee is one aspect of this. It's possible that any number of them could be reinstated or dismissed.

The other is playing retroactively ineligible players. The honor code people have no bearing on how ND handles this besides to the degree in which they have say on removing credit/GPA/degrees for people who have graduated. I don't know how this works. The ND compliance people, athletic department, and ultimately Jenkins have say in how ND decides to handle the athletic record books.

 

[koonja]

If this started on July 29th, and practice started August 4th, I don't get why the 4 players were able to practice until ~ August 15th.

 

[GBdomer]

I just read the last 6 pages of this thread and now I hate myself

 

[IrishLax]

If this started on July 29th, and practice started August 4th, I don't get why the 4 players were able to practice until ~ August 15th.

Because they were fact finding for two weeks? It takes time to read thousands of emails.

 

[wizards8507]

If this started on July 29th, and practice started August 4th, I don't get why the 4 players were able to practice until ~ August 15th.

That's just it. It can't have started on July 29 because then there would be zero question about vacating wins. The cheating would have had to occur last season or earlier, or there wouldn't be any wins to vacate.

 

[pkt77242]

One question: If they are guilty and will be explelled, or whatever, why hasn't Kendall Moore transferred out yet for his 5th year? He is loosing precious time.

I doubt many schools can accept a transfer who is being investigated for academic fraud.

 

[koonja]

Because they were fact finding for two weeks? It takes time to read thousands of emails.

So you think all of the facts were out as of August 15th, or they just found enough to say its time to suspend them for the rest of the investigation?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I doubt many schools can accept a transfer who is being investigated for academic fraud.

I'm not sure about that...