Rumored Violations

[Irish YJ]

A girl proof reading your paper is not academic fraud. Had she written it for them, then that would be.

I think ND really went over the top here. Maybe they panicked?

The players and their families sure didn't sound like they were being treated fairly during the process via twitter. There was even talk of legal action was there not?

In the end, even ND admitted that their honor code system was outdated and took far too long. I love ND but don't have to love everything they do.

1, I don't think we know exactly what transpired, or how far the editing went,,,, if that was the only thing that happened.

2, A few of them said they were indeed treated fairly.

3, the only thing I have a problem with, is the duration of the investigation/process.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

I said we should put measures in place to ensure these types of things don't happen again. Specifically, better oversight over the academic assistants to make it clear what is and is not acceptable assistance. A player cheating on a test is not avoidable, a player getting too much help with papers is something we can prevent.

Also, we could institute some kind of measures that don't leave 5 players publicly in limbo for weeks and weeks on end. It was a horrible spectacle on our end, particularly as BK was forced to answer questions he didn't know the answers to for the first 3/4 of the season. Do you really think there's nothing we could have done better in regards to the Frozen Five situation, from a PR standpoint, from an academic assistance standpoint, and from an equity standpoint? I think it made us look ridiculous, byzantine, out-dated and whatever else you want to call it. Any moral points we scored by upholding our academic integrity were completely eclipsed by the public spectacle we put our own student athletes and their families through.

I am not sure what other measures Notre Dame can put into their program to ensure students aren't cheating. If you would like to have them video record themselves writing the paper, then I guess you are on to something. I don't condone cheating and I felt the punishments were deserved, but it happens with every program in the country. In the case of the five players, a wreckless situation led to them being caught and they have to be held accountable for their actions. There is zero way to prevent cheating unless you physically record them doing it and that isn't going to fly.

I think Notre Dame's process did take a long time and could have been wrapped up sooner, but the majority of it was making sure it didn't led to NCAA violations down the road. I think that 99% of people would be OK with suspending 5 guys for that long vs having to forfeit games they played in or worse if they didn't suspend them.

The players have been very open to the media since the season ended and they have taken responsibility for the situation. If they felt they were given a raw deal, I don't think you would see that reaction since in some instances it is going to cost them money. DaVaris went from a potential round 2-3 pick to undrafted and Russell has a lot of prove to earn the high pick he was on pace for.

I don't think it made ND look like any of the things you stated. You have to understand that Notre Dame isn't going to brush things under the rug. All of the interviews conducted can't magically get done in a few days let alone weeks. Then you have to sort through that interviews to see where you want to go. That's just the interviews, that doesn't count the research into the past papers and making sure that other's weren't involved past the five.

Definitely not trying to say things couldn't have been done better, but it was a unique situation that had bigger ramifications than just the five involved. And as far as using it as a negative recruiting tool, I think that is used, but at the same time I have yet to see any recruits have that impact their decision. I think that most recruits understand that if you cheat and get caught, there are going to be some type of punishment.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

I am not sure what other measures Notre Dame can put into their program to ensure students aren't cheating. If you would like to have them video record themselves writing the paper, then I guess you are on to something. I don't condone cheating and I felt the punishments were deserved, but it happens with every program in the country. In the case of the five players, a wreckless situation led to them being caught and they have to be held accountable for their actions. There is zero way to prevent cheating unless you physically record them doing it and that isn't going to fly.

I think Notre Dame's process did take a long time and could have been wrapped up sooner, but the majority of it was making sure it didn't led to NCAA violations down the road. I think that 99% of people would be OK with suspending 5 guys for that long vs having to forfeit games they played in or worse if they didn't suspend them.

The players have been very open to the media since the season ended and they have taken responsibility for the situation. If they felt they were given a raw deal, I don't think you would see that reaction since in some instances it is going to cost them money. DaVaris went from a potential round 2-3 pick to undrafted and Russell has a lot of prove to earn the high pick he was on pace for.

I don't think it made ND look like any of the things you stated. You have to understand that Notre Dame isn't going to brush things under the rug. All of the interviews conducted can't magically get done in a few days let alone weeks. Then you have to sort through that interviews to see where you want to go. That's just the interviews, that doesn't count the research into the past papers and making sure that other's weren't involved past the five.

Definitely not trying to say things couldn't have been done better, but it was a unique situation that had bigger ramifications than just the five involved. And as far as using it as a negative recruiting tool, I think that is used, but at the same time I have yet to see any recruits have that impact their decision. I think that most recruits understand that if you cheat and get caught, there are going to be some type of punishment.

I don't think most recruits understand that if you cheat and get caught that there are going to be ramifications. I think that is precisely why it's used as a negative recruiting tool against us because you don't have real academic responsibilities at other schools.

Also, I don't really think you can trust what any of the players say about the situation. Russell and Ishaq wanted to come back this year so it would be foolish to speak out, Kendall Moore was already finished and it didn't have any major consequences for him, and Davaris/his father did make noise about the process and look where it got them.

As someone who attended the school in the recent past, I can't think of a single student that thought the Res Life process was well-executed or fair. Their procedures are terribly slow, the decisions are not transparent and their rules are far too invasive. It's an out of place and anachronistic department in a school that is otherwise perfect in just about everything it does.

Finally, like I said before there's a lot of cases where you can't stop players from cheating, especially if its during a test. But this wasn't cheating on an exam and the person that was facilitating the cheating in this instance wasn't a roommate or a kid down the hall. It was someone affiliated with ND who ostensibly should have been subject to some supervision by the school. It's not that hard to require an academic adviser turn on "Track Changes" on Microsoft Word, and submit their edits to a higher up. You don't need to put cameras on the kids or any of your ludicrous assertions. You just need smarter procedures that deter advisers from providing improper assistance.

 

[Irish Storm]

I don't think most recruits understand that if you cheat and get caught that there are going to be ramifications. I think that is precisely why it's used as a negative recruiting tool against us because you don't have real academic responsibilities at other schools.

Also, I don't really think you can trust what any of the players say about the situation. Russell and Ishaq wanted to come back this year so it would be foolish to speak out, Kendall Moore was already finished and it didn't have any major consequences for him, and Davaris/his father did make noise about the process and look where it got them.

As someone who attended the school in the recent past, I can't think of a single student that thought the Res Life process was well-executed or fair. Their procedures are terribly slow, the decisions are not transparent and their rules are far too invasive. It's an out of place and anachronistic department in a school that is otherwise perfect in just about everything it does.

Finally, like I said before there's a lot of cases where you can't stop players from cheating, especially if its during a test. But this wasn't cheating on an exam and the person that was facilitating the cheating in this instance wasn't a roommate or a kid down the hall. It was someone affiliated with ND who ostensibly should have been subject to some supervision by the school. It's not that hard to require an academic adviser turn on "Track Changes" on Microsoft Word, and submit their edits to a higher up. You don't need to put cameras on the kids or any of your ludicrous assertions. You just need smarter procedures that deter advisers from providing improper assistance.

I think the gist of the pitch is that ND looks to play gotcha with the football program. It's one thing if a school stumbles upon cheating but the perception is that ND actively looks for cheating.