Political Correctness thread

[gkIrish]

Who the fuck "walks into a music shop" these days?

Someone who likes to look at vinyl.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I don't have anything against diversity in of itself, and can see the value it has. I don't want to live in a culture that's totally homogenous and everyone is exactly the same. I'm not against diversity. I'm against the idea that it's the ultimate goal, the be all, end all, cure all, greatest thing in the world, and the solution to all problems. There's absolutely no evidence to support that and quite a bit of evidence that those in non-diverse situations do just fine.

Most of the greatest minds in history received an education without benefit of attending a diverse school. Nations or cultures that are quite homogenous and lacking in much diversity, such as Iceland or Japan, produce just as many good, healthy, well-educated, well-adjusted, well-rounded people as those with much more diverse populations.

Another problem I have with the "diversity is everything" approach is that increasing diversity at one level diminishes it at the next. Imagine that you have a typical 5-compartment cafeteria tray with slaw, baked beans, potato salad, pulled pork, and chocolate pudding. There's virtually no diversity in any of the five compartments, but plenty across the tray as a whole. However, if you increase the diversity in each compartment by putting some pudding in each, some pork in each, etc., etc., you maximize the diversity in each individual compartment, but utterly destroy it a level up, as now every part of the tray is exactly the same.

Take NYC as an example. Part of what makes it unique is that there are dozens of neighborhoods that are almost exclusively rich, poor, Jewish, Italian, Chinese, White, Black, Hispanic, and etc. If you insisted that each neighborhood was lacking in diversity and started moving people from other groups into it, you would make each neighborhood diverse, but you'd destroy the diversity of the city itself, as every neighborhood would soon look like any other.

When I was an undergrad at Bama, there were 4 main colleges/universities in the area: Bama (a typical large public university), Stillman (a historically Black school), Judson (a private women's college), and Marion Military Institute (an all male private military academy). Each had a completely unique personality, social structure, racial make-up, code of behavior, academic life, etc. It was fun to visit the other schools or attend events or parties at them because they were each different and special in their own way. Forcing any of them to be much more diverse would've destroyed that.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't have anything against diversity in of itself, and can see the value it has. I don't want to live in a culture that's totally homogenous and everyone is exactly the same. I'm not against diversity. I'm against the idea that it's the ultimate goal, the be all, end all, cure all, greatest thing in the world, and the solution to all problems. There's absolutely no evidence to support that and quite a bit of evidence that those in non-diverse situations do just fine.

Most of the greatest minds in history received an education without benefit of attending a diverse school. Nations or cultures that are quite homogenous and lacking in much diversity, such as Iceland or Japan, produce just as many good, healthy, well-educated, well-adjusted, well-rounded people as those with much more diverse populations.

Another problem I have with the "diversity is everything" approach is that increasing diversity at one level diminishes it at the next. Imagine that you have a typical 5-compartment cafeteria tray with slaw, baked beans, potato salad, pulled pork, and chocolate pudding. There's virtually no diversity in any of the five compartments, but plenty across the tray as a whole. However, if you increase the diversity in each compartment by putting some pudding in each, some pork in each, etc., etc., you maximize the diversity in each individual compartment, but utterly destroy it a level up, as now every part of the tray is exactly the same.

Take NYC as an example. Part of what makes it unique is that there are dozens of neighborhoods that are almost exclusively rich, poor, Jewish, Italian, Chinese, White, Black, Hispanic, and etc. If you insisted that each neighborhood was lacking in diversity and started moving people from other groups into it, you would make each neighborhood diverse, but you'd destroy the diversity of the city itself, as every neighborhood would soon look like any other.

When I was an undergrad at Bama, there were 4 main colleges/universities in the area: Bama (a typical large public university), Stillman (a historically Black school), Judson (a private women's college), and Marion Military Institute (an all male private military academy). Each had a completely unique personality, social structure, racial make-up, code of behavior, academic life, etc. It was fun to visit the other schools or attend events or parties at them because they were each different and special in their own way. Forcing any of them to be much more diverse would've destroyed that.

 

[BeauBenken]

Who the fuck "walks into a music shop" these days?

I have a pretty big vinyl record collection...but I have never been in a record store that did not have an absolute shit ton of variety that everyone could enjoy.

Maybe if someone is looking for something extremely specific like Mongolian Throat Singing, they might have problem...?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JKKbxZvj0lQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishLion]

You're not one of those guys that just goes to buy the vinyl so that you can put it up on your wall like art, are you?

 

[NorthDakota]

When I was an undergrad at Bama.......

....how does one go from Alabama to South Dakota? One of the rare cases someone has moved to South Dakota and can say they are moving up in the world.

 

[woolybug25]

I'd prefer colleges to simply/purely educate (it's up to the individual to choose), and let parents and church teach diversity and values.

When has church been a place that educated diversity?

If people want to study diversity, or sociology, or politics, etc., in college,,,, by all means let them take a class... but don't wrap opinions, views, and PC cr@p or agendas into required course work.

I agree in a sense, but also disagree in another. If you have a university filled with well paid professors and faculty, they better be able to do more than simply teach course work. They can hire monkeys to do that. If I take an economics, I want the personal opinion, experiences, etc that come from the former economist that teaches the course. If I am taking a law class, I can learn a lot from the personal experiences of the lawyer professor's past litigation.

That is part of learning. You need people with a wide array of personal experiences, opinions, etc to give students a full spectrum of educational experience. It's the student's job to decide what to take to heart, what to ignore and what to carry with them in their lives. Because guess what... that's how life after college works too...

 

[connor_in]

Please tell me this is fake, right? Like from The Onion or something?

 

[NDohio]

When has church been a place that educated diversity?



I agree in a sense, but also disagree in another. If you have a university filled with well paid professors and faculty, they better be able to do more than simply teach course work. They can hire monkeys to do that. If I take an economics, I want the personal opinion, experiences, etc that come from the former economist that teaches the course. If I am taking a law class, I can learn a lot from the personal experiences of the lawyer professor's past litigation.

That is part of learning. You need people with a wide array of personal experiences, opinions, etc to give students a full spectrum of educational experience. It's the student's job to decide what to take to heart, what to ignore and what to carry with them in their lives. Because guess what... that's how life after college works too...

Yes. This.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Which branch?

Navy

 

[NDVirginia19]

Please tell me this is fake, right? Like from The Onion or something?

Sadly, no. Not fake.

 

[kmoose]

Navy

My older brother was the XO of the NROTC Battalion a handful of years ago. He went on to work in the MBA program at ND, and has since moved on to Jacksonville University. NROTC at ND has a long and storied tradition; congrats on being part of it.

 

[GoldenDomer]

 

[Irish YJ]

I think it would be helpful to explain what we mean by "education". Vocational training and liberal arts schooling, especially at the post-secondary level, are very different things. The former is very practical and, as you've argued, shouldn't place much emphasis on politics, philosophy, etc. It's also the only form of education that most people should be pursuing past high school. Conversely, the latter is very theoretical, and because it often lacks practical application, is an inherently elite good. When it was invented by the Greeks, it was intended to teach the future rulers of the city-state about what is Good, True and Beautiful, so that they could one day exercise their franchise responsibly in the Senate.

Unfortunately, modern America is the land of participation ribbons and special snowflakes, so we don't do a good job of distinguishing between those two types of education. And a lot of kids end up deep in debt with impractical degrees as a result.

As I noted above, the ability to study those sorts of things beyond high school is a luxury that few can afford. If we, as a nation, feel that every citizen needs to study certain subjects in order to be a good American, we'd better be able to teach it effectively in grade or high school.

Makes you wonder how many SJWs have seriously questioned their grandparents on these issues. Does your Nana need to be publicly shamed because she still harbors some ugly beliefs about certain racial or sexual minorities? Probably, since most of them seem to be all justice and no mercy.

You're spot on about defining "education". I look at it in a more purist view I guess. I think too many are making college, and school in general a dumping ground for social, political, PC agendas. I went to college to "play school" and have a good time. I grew up along the way, but I wasn't there to form my political beliefs, adopt social views, or become diverse. Kelley School of Business was more than enough to challenge my young brain while trying to have a social life at the same time.

When has church been a place that educated diversity?

I should have phrased it better, but really meant to connect church with morals. I will say though that my priest promoted "love everyone", "don't judge", and we are all children of the Almighty. Is that not promoting diversity. I think that brings up another point. Are churches and religions that preach love the sinner, hate the sin,,, totally evil places because they don't promote acceptance of some "diverse behavior"?

I agree in a sense, but also disagree in another. If you have a university filled with well paid professors and faculty, they better be able to do more than simply teach course work. They can hire monkeys to do that. If I take an economics, I want the personal opinion, experiences, etc that come from the former economist that teaches the course. If I am taking a law class, I can learn a lot from the personal experiences of the lawyer professor's past litigation.

I'm perfectly OK with opinion and insight as it relates to personal and professional experience. What I'm not OK with, is a professor teaching entry level micro or macro and pushing his socialist agenda (happened to me in core) every chance he could get. Brilliant guy, but he's not someone I'd bet on succeeding in the real world running a business

That is part of learning. You need people with a wide array of personal experiences, opinions, etc to give students a full spectrum of educational experience. It's the student's job to decide what to take to heart, what to ignore and what to carry with them in their lives. Because guess what... that's how life after college works too...

Agree somewhat if professors classify opinions as opinions (instead of gospel), but also discuss popular and acceptable alternatives. I experienced too many "agenda" driven profs in my days at IU. I was a bit more seasoned than many of the students and was able to wade through what I deemed as BS. What I did not like was seeing less savvy, more sheltered, less worldly kids being sucked in by charismatic profs spouting their beliefs as absolutes. Many of those profs were career educators without much practical or real world experience.

 

[Irish YJ]

Sadly, no. Not fake.

Instead of a passing grade, they should have given him a participation ribbon.

 

[gkIrish]

You're not one of those guys that just goes to buy the vinyl so that you can put it up on your wall like art, are you?

Haha no. I actually collect vinyls and listen to them. But I will probably stop now that I know Beau does it because it can't be cool.

 

[bkess8]

Navy

Nice, see you in the fleet shipmate!

 

[bkess8]

Instead of a passing grade, they should have given him a participation trophy.

FIFY

Everyone gets a trophy these days!

 

[phgreek]

Sadly, no. Not fake.

gotta be more to this...gotta be

 

[NDVirginia19]

Nice, see you in the fleet shipmate!

Awesome, what community are you in?

 

[NDgradstudent]

There has been another student accepted to all of the Ivy League schools, from the same high school on Long Island that produced another all-Ivy student last year.

What is interesting about this case is that both of these students are Nigerian, i.e. children of Nigerian immigrants. They are not African-American in the ordinary sense. For anyone who subscribes to the reparations theory of affirmative action: do these students deserve affirmative action, even though they/their ancestors are not victims of past discrimination of any systematic sort?

 

[BeauBenken]

Haha no. I actually collect vinyls and listen to them. But I will probably stop now that I know Beau does it because it can't be cool.

 

[military_irish]

Please tell me this is fake, right? Like from The Onion or something?

gotta be more to this...gotta be

There is more to the story but sadly the added information does not back the accusation of racism.

I decided to do a brief lookup of the situation online to gain a better understanding of the accusers point of view. This story is a few years old now but that still does not diminish the absurdity of the content. From the quick searches I did I was able to gather that UCLA has had some racial division on campus but I did not dig into the whole aspect of those accusations. I focused on this story alone.

It took me a few articles in to find the true accusations from the students. I still do not feel I have all the information but these are the few things I could gather.

1) In a dissertation paper (topic was not disclosed) a black student chose to capitalize the word "Blacks" but refused to capitalize the word "Whites" when used in the same context. The professor simply stated that if you chose to capitalize one then the other must be capitalized too. Seems reasonable enough but without knowing how the sentence was structured. It's hard to take a concrete stand either way.

2) Another student was told not to capitalize the word "indigenous" because it was not a proper noun. The student felt the correction was ideologically based.

3) During an open discussion in class a white female student was writing a dissertation paper focused on feminism and proclaimed that females are an oppressed group. A black student stated that she could not be part of an oppressed group. (Their basis for this claim was not printed in the articles I read.) The professor chose not to side with either party and so the black student felt that he was siding with the opposite group. Thus, fueling racial tension within the classroom.

Do I believe that some professors grade different based on various demographics? I wouldn't put it passed them. Is there some sort of racial tension similar to Missouri campus issues at UCLA? Quite possibly but I have not dug into that.

This incident may have just been the straw that broke the camels back but I did not run across the eventual aftermath of this. But either way. These are the few things I was able to find to try and shine some light on this incident.

Finding these accusations absurd was based solely on the limited resources I was able to find. If there is more information to this story I will gladly change my point of view. Until then in the words of the famous man, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

 

[IrishJayhawk]

There is more to the story but sadly the added information does not back the accusation of racism.

I decided to do a brief lookup of the situation online to gain a better understanding of the accusers point of view. This story is a few years old now but that still does not diminish the absurdity of the content. From the quick searches I did I was able to gather that UCLA has had some racial division on campus but I did not dig into the whole aspect of those accusations. I focused on this story alone.

It took me a few articles in to find the true accusations from the students. I still do not feel I have all the information but these are the few things I could gather.

1) In a dissertation paper (topic was not disclosed) a black student chose to capitalize the word "Blacks" but refused to capitalize the word "Whites" when used in the same context. The professor simply stated that if you chose to capitalize one then the other must be capitalized too. Seems reasonable enough but without knowing how the sentence was structured. It's hard to take a concrete stand either way.

2) Another student was told not to capitalize the word "indigenous" because it was not a proper noun. The student felt the correction was ideologically based.

3) During an open discussion in class a white female student was writing a dissertation paper focused on feminism and proclaimed that females are an oppressed group. A black student stated that she could not be part of an oppressed group. (Their basis for this claim was not printed in the articles I read.) The professor chose not to side with either party and so the black student felt that he was siding with the opposite group. Thus, fueling racial tension within the classroom.

Do I believe that some professors grade different based on various demographics? I wouldn't put it passed them. Is there some sort of racial tension similar to Missouri campus issues at UCLA? Quite possibly but I have not dug into that.

This incident may have just been the straw that broke the camels back but I did not run across the eventual aftermath of this. But either way. These are the few things I was able to find to try and shine some light on this incident.

Finding these accusations absurd was based solely on the limited resources I was able to find. If there is more information to this story I will gladly change my point of view. Until then in the words of the famous man, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

I think this is pretty much right on. There's much more than is in the original post. It's not that the professor was just trying to correct the spelling or capitalization. The student argued that the capitalization was an attempt to forward an argument. Therefore, he student took it to mean that the professor was editing or suppressing his ideology.

I don't think that the professor was wrong. But the original post is intentionally leaving out information in order to mislead.

 

[NDinL.A.]

There has been another student accepted to all of the Ivy League schools, from the same high school on Long Island that produced another all-Ivy student last year.

What is interesting about this case is that both of these students are Nigerian, i.e. children of Nigerian immigrants. They are not African-American in the ordinary sense. For anyone who subscribes to the reparations theory of affirmative action: do these students deserve affirmative action, even though they/their ancestors are not victims of past discrimination of any systematic sort?

What's an African-American in the "ordinary sense"? Is this just another "fashionable minority" to you, where you are trying to get your "Make America white Again" point across?

 

[RDU Irish]

The course isn't on white privilege, it's a class called Moreau First Year Experience (They decided this was more important that PE, which I'm pissed because I would have gotten out of PE because I'm in ROTC) but there's been a lot of topics. It's two semesters and worth like 1 credit hour, but it's pretty useless stuff. Some of the topics this semester have been Career Development, Cultural Competency, Spirituality, relationships, discernment -- so its not entirely useless, but 98% of the Freshmen agree it's a waste of time. The one reason I wasn't too keen on voting for Corey Robinson for president because he wanted to make the course focus more on white privilege and police brutality.

I thought PE class was great at ND. Also making sure people can swim. Ballroom dancing, fencing, racketball and the like are all opportunities to try something new that you may have never been exposed to in the past. I thought taking that out of the curriculum was mistake.

Corey Robinson sounds like he has guilt over being an uber privileged offspring of the rich and famous. You would be hard pressed to find a less advantaged kid on campus. And I give him all the credit in the world for making the most of it.

 

[NDVirginia19]

What's an African-American in the "ordinary sense"? Is this just another "fashionable minority" to you, where you are trying to get your "Make America white Again" point across?

The ordinary sense in that their families came from generations upon generations of slaves and laws in America that for generations after emancipation limited their ability to gain perpetual wealth via real estate and high paying work. Or something like that

 

[NDVirginia19]

I thought PE class was great at ND. Also making sure people can swim. Ballroom dancing, fencing, racketball and the like are all opportunities to try something new that you may have never been exposed to in the past. I thought taking that out of the curriculum was mistake.

Corey Robinson sounds like he has guilt over being an uber privileged offspring of the rich and famous. You would be hard pressed to find a less advantaged kid on campus. And I give him all the credit in the world for making the most of it.

I agree, I know three freshmen just in my dorm who can't swim.

 

[RDU Irish]

The ordinary sense in that their families came from generations upon generations of slaves and laws in America that for generations after emancipation limited their ability to gain perpetual wealth via real estate and high paying work. Or something like that

How many generations does it take before they run out of excuses and are finally expected to pull up their pants and cut their own path? Cycle of poverty is very real, leaning on racial excuses compounds the problem. There is more upward mobility in this country than anywhere in the world. Please tell me how these people are so grossly disadvantaged relative to anywhere or any time in history? If not here - where? If not now - when?

 

[NDVirginia19]

How many generations does it take before they run out of excuses and are finally expected to pull up their pants and cut their own path? Cycle of poverty is very real, leaning on racial excuses compounds the problem. There is more upward mobility in this country than anywhere in the world. Please tell me how these people are so grossly disadvantaged relative to anywhere or any time in history? If not here - where? If not now - when?

Oh I definitely agree with you, but there's definitely an inherent cultural difference between those two types of families, and I guess that's up for debate. The fact that my family has been homeowners for the three generations they've been here definitely helps me, but I think you can take race out of it. I don't think that I'm any better off than a black person of similar income who's family has accumulated similar wealth over similar generations.