Political Correctness thread

[NDgradstudent]

What's an African-American in the "ordinary sense"? Is this just another "fashionable minority" to you, where you are trying to get your "Make America white Again" point across?

It means they were not descended from slaves.

Again, the reparations theory of affirmative action holds that it is justified as partial compensation for past discrimination/oppression. How did the U.S. government/population oppress Nigerians born in the early 1990s?

 

[IrishLion]

It means they were not descended from slaves.

Again, the reparations theory of affirmative action holds that it is justified as partial compensation for past discrimination/oppression. How did the U.S. government/population oppress Nigerians born in the early 1990s?

I thought affirmative action was enacted to ensure equal opportunities and proper representation in the work force relative to population.

I didn't know that it was enacted as "reparations."

 

[IrishJayhawk]

How many generations does it take before they run out of excuses and are finally expected to pull up their pants and cut their own path? Cycle of poverty is very real, leaning on racial excuses compounds the problem. There is more upward mobility in this country than anywhere in the world. Please tell me how these people are so grossly disadvantaged relative to anywhere or any time in history? If not here - where? If not now - when?

That's actually not a given anymore.

U.S. lags behind peer countries in mobility | Economic Policy Institute
Is it easier to obtain the American Dream in Europe? | PunditFact

 

[pkt77242]

How many generations does it take before they run out of excuses and are finally expected to pull up their pants and cut their own path? Cycle of poverty is very real, leaning on racial excuses compounds the problem. There is more upward mobility in this country than anywhere in the world. Please tell me how these people are so grossly disadvantaged relative to anywhere or any time in history? If not here - where? If not now - when?

Actually not really true anymore.

U.S. lags behind peer countries in mobility | Economic Policy Institute

Harvard Upward Mobility Study - Business Insider

Things haven't gotten worse, but one of the study's authors told the Times that the odds of escaping poverty are only half as high in the U.S. as in highest-ranked countries for mobility such as Denmark.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

^^Get out of my head!

 

[pkt77242]

There has been another student accepted to all of the Ivy League schools, from the same high school on Long Island that produced another all-Ivy student last year.

What is interesting about this case is that both of these students are Nigerian, i.e. children of Nigerian immigrants. They are not African-American in the ordinary sense. For anyone who subscribes to the reparations theory of affirmative action: do these students deserve affirmative action, even though they/their ancestors are not victims of past discrimination of any systematic sort?

What does affirmative action have to do with it? From the article she is extremely intelligent and seems well qualified to get into all 8 Ivy league schools. Why couldn't she have gotten in on her own merit?

You are making one huge assumption that says something about you and your beliefs.

 

[drayer54]

Gap apologizes for racially insensitive ad

Gap tweeted the photo on April 2 with the caption, "Meet the kids who are proving that girls can do anything." While the ad was supposed to be empowering, many noted on social media that the black girl was being used as a "prop" or a piece of furniture.

 

[NDgradstudent]

What does affirmative action have to do with it? From the article she is extremely intelligent and seems well qualified to get into all 8 Ivy league schools. Why couldn't she have gotten in on her own merit?

You are making one huge assumption that says something about you and your beliefs.

The assumption is definitely warranted, given the considerable and well-established role that racial preference plays in college admissions. When was the last time you heard of an Asian or non-Hispanic white student getting into all of the Ivy League schools? They must all be unqualified. Or, they do not enjoy preferences- and, in the case of Asians, are subject to reverse discrimination.

 

[NDVirginia19]

This is proof that people will find literally anything to be offended about. That's my biggest problem with the modern PC movement, it's just heat seeking missiles trying to find something to break because they want to be victims

 

[NDinL.A.]

The assumption is definitely warranted, given the considerable and well-established role that racial preference plays in college admissions. When was the last time you heard of an Asian or non-Hispanic white student getting into all of the Ivy League schools? They must all be unqualified. Or, they do not enjoy preferences- and, in the case of Asians, are subject to reverse discrimination.

I feel sooooooooo sorry for white guys. They just have it incredibly rough. You've convinced me - I'd much rather be Black or Latino than Anglo - they get ALL the breaks without having to face any racism. After all, we're just "fashionable minorities" to you - the REAL victims are the white dudes.

#makeAmericaWhiteagain

 

[ACamp1900]

I feel sooooooooo sorry for white guys. They just have it incredibly rough. You've convinced me - I'd much rather be Black or Latino than Anglo - they get ALL the breaks without having to face any racism. After all, we're just "fashionable minorities" to you - the REAL victims are the white dudes.

#makeAmericaWhiteagain

Well, definitely not Latino... those guys are FUVKED....

 

[connor_in]

27 Normal Things Every '80s Kid Did in School That Would Never Fly Today | The Stir

 

[RDU Irish]

Actually not really true anymore.

U.S. lags behind peer countries in mobility | Economic Policy Institute

Harvard Upward Mobility Study - Business Insider

Good responses by you and Jayhawk. I would argue our welfare system negatively impacts those results and that being clearly in the top group of countries puts us in an enviable global position. I'm guessing most of the world is not aspiring for the Slovanian Dream and that the American Dream is still well alive for those with the desire to pursue it.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Good responses by you and Jayhawk. I would argue our welfare system negatively impacts those results and that being clearly in the top group of countries puts us in an enviable global position. I'm guessing most of the world is not aspiring for the Slovanian Dream and that the American Dream is still well alive for those with the desire to pursue it.

I would argue that the reliance on supply side economics since about 1980 has led to this result.

 

[pkt77242]

Good responses by you and Jayhawk. I would argue our welfare system negatively impacts those results and that being clearly in the top group of countries puts us in an enviable global position. I'm guessing most of the world is not aspiring for the Slovanian Dream and that the American Dream is still well alive for those with the desire to pursue it.

On the graph smaller numbers are better. So Denmark, Norway, Finland, Canada etc. are better at upwards mobility (Slovenia, Chile, UK, etc are worse). All of those countries have very good welfare systems, so I am not sure that welfare is the problem. In fact Denmark's poor are about twice as likely to escape poverty than a poor person in the U.S.

Interestingly, I saw a paper that stated that poor people are just as likely to escape poverty now as they were a generation ago, so we haven't improved nor gotten worse at it (at least recently, I think that it would be interesting to look back a couple of generations).

 

[IrishLion]

27 Normal Things Every '80s Kid Did in School That Would Never Fly Today | The Stir

Some of this is reasonable. Some is ridiculous.

I can empathize with the "lining up for recess based on gender" thing. We used to play tackle football at recess, but the teachers decided it was getting too dangerous, so we had to switch to two-hand touch. After another week, they decided that touch was also too dangerous, so they separated recess based on gender.

Their solution was to separate us, and then divide the school yard in half. The girls got the side of the school yard that had the playground and the football/soccer/baseball field. The boys got the four-square area and a dilapidated basketball hoop.

Rather than just telling us "no more football" or asking us to switch to a different sport, the teachers separated us by gender and gave the girls the football field. I still get heated about it to this day.

 

[RDU Irish]

On the graph smaller numbers are better. So Denmark, Norway, Finland, Canada etc. are better at upwards mobility (Slovenia, Chile, UK, etc are worse). All of those countries have very good welfare systems, so I am not sure that welfare is the problem. In fact Denmark's poor are about twice as likely to escape poverty than a poor person in the U.S.

Interestingly, I saw a paper that stated that poor people are just as likely to escape poverty now as they were a generation ago, so we haven't improved nor gotten worse at it (at least recently, I think that it would be interesting to look back a couple of generations).

Ha, I misread the graph. Yeah, we suck then and the American Dream is nothing but really good marketing. I would have to see something illustrating a shift to the current numbers over a number of decades before saying we are better or worse off than the 70s and 80s.

We should ship all of our poor to Canada, it's in their best interest.

 

[woolybug25]

Some posters mentioned earlier in the thread how kids don't get paddled in school anymore. I would like to talk about that. Do some of you think that teachers should be allowed to do so?

I am adamently against it. There is zero reasoning I see for letting strangers beat my kid. I don't care if it's just a paddle or a spanking. I also think it's wrong for government to decide that physical punishment can be a decision somebody other than a parent can decide.

This was still around when my brother was in school and he was paddled in front of his entire class by a creepy teacher that prominently displayed his paddle (which he painted and named, the sadistic bastard) for all to see. He was proud of it and felt entitled to use it at his discretion.

He hit my brother one time with it. He came home, told my dad, and my father immediately went down to talk to him about it. After the teacher made it clear that he felt that he could paddle my brother if he chose, my father informed him that if that paddle ever touched my brother again... then the next person it touched would be the teacher himself.

My brother was never paddled by that teacher again. He was also fired years later after hitting a kid with it across the back when he tried to run from him.

 

[NorthDakota]

On the graph smaller numbers are better. So Denmark, Norway, Finland, Canada etc. are better at upwards mobility (Slovenia, Chile, UK, etc are worse). All of those countries have very good welfare systems, so I am not sure that welfare is the problem. In fact Denmark's poor are about twice as likely to escape poverty than a poor person in the U.S.

Interestingly, I saw a paper that stated that poor people are just as likely to escape poverty now as they were a generation ago, so we haven't improved nor gotten worse at it (at least recently, I think that it would be interesting to look back a couple of generations).

Do Denmark and the US have anything in common though other than being 1st world countries? What is there definition of poor, middle class, rich, etc?

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't know if bringing back the "Board of Education" is even worth discussing as that thing is never coming back regardless...

I do feel some level of disciplinary authority needs to be given back to the schools as more and more students are realizing the schools/teachers etc. really have very little they can actually do during extreme cases and some are beginning to act on that knowledge. I worked with a teacher who was fired after he stopped a fight where one child was beating another, much smaller, child to the point where the child receiving the action was in serious danger. The teacher pulled the aggressor away and pinned him down (This was a BIG kid)... the parent of the aggressor went ape shit and long to short, gone.

All kinds of differing ideas out there, I don't see much changing...

 

[RDU Irish]

I don't know if bringing back the "Board of Education" is even worth discussing as that thing is never coming back regardless...

I do feel some level of disciplinary authority needs to be given back to the schools as more and more students are realizing the schools/teachers etc. really have very little they can actually do during extreme cases and some are beginning to act on that knowledge. I worked with a teacher who was fired after he stopped a fight where one child was beating another, much smaller, child to the point where the child receiving the action was in serious danger. The teacher pulled the aggressor away and pinned him down (This was a BIG kid)... the parent of the aggressor went ape shit and long to short, gone.

All kinds of differing ideas out there, I don't see much changing...

The worst offenders always have mommy and daddy close behind coming to their rescue. Exactly the folks that would never sign off on corporal punishment.

 

[woolybug25]

The worst offenders always have mommy and daddy close behind coming to their rescue. Exactly the folks that would never sign off on corporal punishment.

So what are your thoughts on it? Would you be okay with the practice?


RE: Acamp's post, I totally agree. We definitely could benefit from giving teachers more tools to control behavior. I don't think being able to hit kids is an acceptable answer, but I do think that they should have better access to conflict management training, the ability to have trained security staff to step into these types of situations and parents need to sign off on procedure for correction. A parent cant really get up in arms if a teacher uses a policy that they signed off on for them.

 

[ACamp1900]

The worst offenders always have mommy and daddy close behind coming to their rescue. Exactly the folks that would never sign off on corporal punishment.

I had the aggressor in one of my rotation periods. It was a constant dark cloud of stress hanging over me at all times when he was in my classroom even before the incident I described.

Very happy to have moved on from that environment. I can say it may just be the fact that I worked in a very depressed/underprivileged district... Hollywood and Jayhawk are both still teachers (I believe) and I don't get the sense that they deal or have dealt with the same culture(s).

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't know if bringing back the "Board of Education" is even worth discussing as that thing is never coming back regardless...

I do feel some level of disciplinary authority needs to be given back to the schools as more and more students are realizing the schools/teachers etc. really have very little they can actually during extreme cases and some are beginning to act on that knowledge. Example: I worked with a teacher who was fired after he stopped a fight where one child was beating another, much smaller, child to the point where the child receiving the action was in serious danger. The teacher pulled the aggressor away and pinned him down (This was a BIG kid)... the parent of the aggressor went ape shit and long to short, gone.

All kinds of differing ideas out there, I don't see much changing...

That's a reflection of a deep sickness in our society. At heart, modernity is largely about the rejection of unchosen authority: God over man, parent over child, etc. Chaos is in the classroom is inevitable when our culture undermines legitimate authority at every turn.

I have several family members who are educators, so I cringe at the horror stories of spineless administrators and enabling parents siding with entitled brats against well-meaning teachers. But I don't think this problem can be fixed by tweaking classroom disciplinary policies. Teachers can't be parents; their ability to undo damage inflicted at home or by the culture at large is limited.

 

[IrishLion]

parents need to sign off on procedure for correction. A parent cant really get up in arms if a teacher uses a policy that they signed off on for them.

This is the key right here.

I think parents need to sign a document saying, "If my kid is in any physical altercation on school grounds, teachers and administrators have my permission to physically restrain them."

It's ridiculous that this would be necessary, but it's a better answer than letting kids get into fights and having a teacher that's scared of losing their job if they intervene.

 

[ACamp1900]

That's a reflection of a deep sickness in our society. At heart, modernity is largely about the rejection of unchosen authority: God over man, parent over child, etc. Chaos is in the classroom is inevitable when our culture undermines legitimate authority at every turn.

I have several family members who are educators, so I cringe at the horror stories of spineless administrators and enabling parents siding with entitled brats against well-meaning teachers. But I don't think this problem can be fixed by tweaking classroom disciplinary policies. Teachers can't be parents; their ability to undo damage inflicted at home or by the culture at large is limited.

I agree with all of this. I still feel some level of authority should still be handed back to the schools if only to benefit the children who don't need it from being negatively impacted by those who do, and to protect well meaning, good, teachers that are pushed away and or fired for simply trying to have some semblance of control of their classrooms and schools.

 

[ACamp1900]

A parent cant really get up in arms if a teacher uses a policy that they signed off on for them.

but seriously, you don't know these parents... lol

 

[NDVirginia19]

27 Normal Things Every '80s Kid Did in School That Would Never Fly Today | The Stir

Safety Patrol was always good to me, having a fifth grader who would make sure the younger kids a) don't get lost or b) don't run in the halls. I see no harm in that.

As somebody who walked to school from grade 3 to 12, I think it's pretty dumb that kids can't learn to walk to school by themselves in elementary school as long as there's safe routes for them to walk on.

Getting rid of tetherball is also really stupid. And was it humiliating to be picked last for soccer on the playground? Yeah, a little bit. but I probably never would have asked my dad to help me get better at soccer if I hadn't been consistently picked last in elementary school for a year's worth of recesses, and I never would have been good enough to play for the school in middle school. Our nature and society as a whole is a meritocracy where being good at something is a rewarded behavior.

And when did "Ms" or "Mrs." stop being used? Because I remember using that almost every year.

 

[ACamp1900]

The kids still totally pick teams for soccer. There were still tether-ball courts when I worked too, did those just go away in the last couple years?

 

[woolybug25]

but seriously, you don't know these parents... lol

I didn't say that they wouldn't still try! ha.

But legally, the teachers are at least protected. They shouldn't have to worry about losing their jobs with vague rules that don't protect them or the students.

Safety Patrol was always good to me, having a fifth grader who would make sure the younger kids a) don't get lost or b) don't run in the halls. I see no harm in that.

As somebody who walked to school from grade 3 to 12, I think it's pretty dumb that kids can't learn to walk to school by themselves in elementary school as long as there's safe routes for them to walk on.

Getting rid of tetherball is also really stupid. And was it humiliating to be picked last for soccer on the playground? Yeah, a little bit. but I probably never would have asked my dad to help me get better at soccer if I hadn't been consistently picked last in elementary school for a year's worth of recesses, and I never would have been good enough to play for the school in middle school. Our nature and society as a whole is a meritocracy where being good at something is a rewarded behavior.

And when did "Ms" or "Mrs." stop being used? Because I remember using that almost every year.

I walked to school from Kindergarten on. It's crazy that parents think that its that much more dangerous now. I would argue that it is safer with technology.

Regarding the fear parents have of kids getting picked last, that's part of life. I don't get why they wouldn't want their kid to learn that life is like that. They will become adults and realize that life is exactly like that. Adapt and overcome, man. You can't learn about how hard work leads to improvement if you're never forced to improve.