Political Correctness thread

[Bogtrotter07]

The view among the IE Progressive Party seems to be: quotas today, quotas tomorrow, quotas forever!

Also, if being clothed and housed is the issue, then why not have income-based affirmative action? Race-based affirmative action tends to benefit the wealthiest people within each group. Race is not a simple proxy for poverty in these cases.

As IrishLax described above, these quota systems leads to resentment among many people who do not get the benefits, regardless of their race:



This is the other problem. Black students at Caltech know that they deserve to be there because of their intellectual ability, not because of their race.

As anyone is who favors such a silly, dogmatic perspective, you are reduced to calling people names (as you see it), and lumping people with a plethora of other perspectives into one group. That is the core definition of the kind of one-dimensional, stereotypical thought that leads to racism, classism, and sexism.

I always want to ask people that say 'my best friend is,' or, 'I have lots of _______ (fill in the blank) friends,' "Do you realize that there are personality types, people with behavioral issues, or other types of mental illness that only have friends to whom they consider themselves superior?" And if someone vehemently denies that possibility, I like to follow up with, "Well, which option is true in your case?"

It's very simple: I support one standard for everyone. No lowering of standards for the gifted program so that more blacks and Hispanics get in, no lowering of standards for the Marines so more women can get in, etc. That is 'equal opportunity.'

Have everyone take a test, without their name or race attached to it, and set some threshold score above which any student is admitted to the gifted program. One threshold. No quotas.

Any healthy person would support allowing any person that they didn't want to hamstring the ability to stand, and think on their own.

But an across the board insistence on that strategy is preposterous! There is mental illness, physical impairment, social stigma, PTSD from serious abuse, and hundreds of reasons a given individual may not be able to be dropped into a situation with open competition.

I mean, do you understand the absolute insanity of that position? I am not saying you are insane, by any stretch; no, I have also heard it repeated by the over-privileged, over-fed, over-indulged, until that mantra becomes perceived like truth. But anyone can look, listen, observe, and think for themselves and see how ignorant it really is.

The goal is to get to even competition across the board. But achieving it will only actually happen in a perfect world. Which we don't have.

So, if those who have been in the trenches, who have actually tried to help alleviate these problems, want to try something to help heal some of those not able to compete, lumping them all as 'quota-ists' is just another way of behaving in a stereotypical way.

Suggesting modification in methods, or a shift in the paradigm, are different. It is necessary for evolution and growth, socially and personally. But it is not decrying some initiative because it has weaknesses without providing an alternative, or even admitting the problem exists it was intending to alleviate.

And if you think the problem isn't still raging, come to me and visit East St. Louis, or near south-side Chicago sometime.

 

[NDgradstudent]

There is mental illness, physical impairment, social stigma, PTSD from serious abuse, and hundreds of reasons a given individual may not be able to be dropped into a situation with open competition.

In fairness, though, it is a better plan to give certain people (again, based on their race: these are not people with mental illness, or physical impairment, or PTSD; only, possibly, social stigma) a boost in college admission and drop them into open competition with people who got in through intelligence and achievement, and hope that works out? They have to compete at some point. Why create a mismatch between school and ability in this way?

 

[IrishLax]

OK let's cut the bullshit for a second. There is nothing wrong with the concept of affirmative action, there are just issues with certain applications of the concept. Affirmative action on its surface makes sense in terms of getting the best students/candidates students into your school/company.

Consider an Asian kid who has private tutors and test prep for 4 hours a night compared to a Black kid growing up in the hood working a part time job after school just to feed himself and his younger siblings. That Asian kid with a 3.8 GPA and 1500 SAT might be ostensibly "better" on paper than the Black kid with a 3.5 GPA and 1400 SAT, but in actuality the Black kid is likely a superior prospective student. It's borderline common sense that when subjectively trying to select the "best" there is an element that has to be holistic and not strictly blind/numbers based. That's why college have essays and interviews and recommendations, that's why companies interview and call your previous employer.

So I'm OK with discussing the flaws of giving someone like a hypothetical child of Grant Hill (affluent, highly educated with highly educated parents/grandparents) the same benefits of "affirmative action" as a Latino kid from a rough part of LA whose parents both don't speak English. But we need to stop pretending that affirmative action cases don't generally perform quite well once given the opportunity... so it's hard to say they didn't "deserve" it.

 

[phgreek]

OK let's cut the bullshit for a second. There is nothing wrong with the concept of affirmative action, there are just issues with certain applications of the concept. Affirmative action on its surface makes sense in terms of getting the best students/candidates students into your school/company.

Consider an Asian kid who has private tutors and test prep for 4 hours a night compared to a Black kid growing up in the hood working a part time job after school just to feed himself and his younger siblings. That Asian kid with a 3.8 GPA and 1500 SAT might be ostensibly "better" on paper than the Black kid with a 3.5 GPA and 1400 SAT, but in actuality the Black kid is likely a superior prospective student. It's borderline common sense that when subjectively trying to select the "best" there is an element that has to be holistic and not strictly blind/numbers based. That's why college have essays and interviews and recommendations, that's why companies interview and call your previous employer.

So I'm OK with discussing the flaws of giving someone like a hypothetical child of Grant Hill (affluent, highly educated with highly educated parents/grandparents) the same benefits of "affirmative action" as a Latino kid from a rough part of LA whose parents both don't speak English. But we need to stop pretending that affirmative action cases don't generally perform quite well once given the opportunity... so it's hard to say they didn't "deserve" it.

...affirmative action did not intend quotas

Its intent was to take action to reach/find qualified people within minority classifications, and prove you were trying.

Somehow, particularly in academia, that turned into outright quotas, and passive quotas, ie when you have limited space and you make arbitrary or overly subjective selection criteria, you clearly deny someone who'd otherwise qualify if you used a strict objective standard. I realize, at some point, if you live with strict objective standards, you will have an issue where more people qualify than you have room for...ie too many met the strict standard...so then yea, you may indeed need to apply some subjective selection criteria. At that point if you want to do the diversity thing, where you try and match population percentages, or some other approach that makes sense...cool. But AFTER everybody being considered has met the objective standard.

I'm just not real comfortable with lowering standards of entry for certain special classes of folks, and am less comfortable with lowering standards in things like licensure, degree, etc. in order to force people into places so we can say we are diverse. It makes no sense to me.

 

[BGIF]

IU Students Fear KKK Member Robed and On Campus, Really Just a Dominican Friar

Everyone mistook a priest for a KKK member

Lol

And so it was updated, Luke 23:34 (2016):

Father, forgive them for they (still) know not what they do.

 

[ACamp1900]

And so it was updated, Luke 23:34 (2016):

I mean, he totally ignored the whole, 'white after labor day' thing.... Clear bigot...

 

[wizards8507]

Trans Activists: ‘Ian McEwan, Identity Politics Rule!’ Sadly, He Takes Back His Critique

 

[Ndaccountant]

But we need to stop pretending that affirmative action cases don't generally perform quite well once given the opportunity... so it's hard to say they didn't "deserve" it.

I am not so sure that this is the case. Back to your example......the Asian individual might have had a better score because of the prep he/she received compared to the Black individual. But at what point does the preparation and work ethic become indicative of the future success instead of the actual scores? Or more plainly put, does the lack of advanced prep put the student who is benefiting from AA at danger when it comes to actually having to "step it up" when enrolled?

Research has been done in this arena and they call it "mismatch". Typically the danger zone of mismatch occurs when the beneficiary is below the median level of their peers at a given school. So the question isn't so much of if students getting a "bump" on their application due to racial or ethnic reasons, but how much of a bump they are getting. I recall some figures off the top of my head (TIFWIW) from the University of Texas quarrel a few years ago and that they average white student being displaced was around the 90th percentile of test scores while the average beneficiary of AA was near 50%. This would be the mismatch the theorists are concerned with.

Attached is some research on the topic from Duke economists who reasoned that lower ranked California state schools were better at graduating minority students in STEM classes than what Berkeley was (had to study this in my MBA courses a few years ago). For example, their research shows that had the bottom third of minority students at Berkeley who wished to pursue a STEM degree gone to Santa Cruz instead, they would have been almost twice as likely to earn such a degree. Furthermore, Berkeley would steer these students to less demanding majors where they would perhaps be more successful. So were the students who went to Berkeley better off? Did they perform well because they were shoved into other majors?

Needless to say that AA at it's core has a good intent. The issue is how that policy gets applied and to what extent. But to say that "we need to stop pretending that affirmative action cases don't generally perform quite well once given the opportunity" is a bit of a stretch IMO. If you are interested in the research, there are numerous studies surrounding law school admits, where the outcomes are even more dubious.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w18799.pdf?new_window=1

 

[BeauBenken]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/10B9Fc8BmR0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[RDU Irish]

OK let's cut the bullshit for a second. There is nothing wrong with the concept of affirmative action, there are just issues with certain applications of the concept. Affirmative action on its surface makes sense in terms of getting the best students/candidates students into your school/company.

Consider an Asian kid who has private tutors and test prep for 4 hours a night compared to a Black kid growing up in the hood working a part time job after school just to feed himself and his younger siblings. That Asian kid with a 3.8 GPA and 1500 SAT might be ostensibly "better" on paper than the Black kid with a 3.5 GPA and 1400 SAT, but in actuality the Black kid is likely a superior prospective student. It's borderline common sense that when subjectively trying to select the "best" there is an element that has to be holistic and not strictly blind/numbers based. That's why college have essays and interviews and recommendations, that's why companies interview and call your previous employer.

So I'm OK with discussing the flaws of giving someone like a hypothetical child of Grant Hill (affluent, highly educated with highly educated parents/grandparents) the same benefits of "affirmative action" as a Latino kid from a rough part of LA whose parents both don't speak English. But we need to stop pretending that affirmative action cases don't generally perform quite well once given the opportunity... so it's hard to say they didn't "deserve" it.

Doesn't it really have more to do with how they are raised/prepped than the color of their skin? I feel sorry for the Asian kid who has to work in HS to put food on the table with lower test scores because he hasn't prepped like the group is lumped with due to his race.

 

[NorthDakota]

I love how the UND hockey fans wear Fighting Sioux attire. Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux Sioux

They don't announce the new name at hockey games because of fans booing the name that THEY voted on. It is actually pretty creepy. I will typically say I'm a fan of Notre Dame. They happen to be called the Fighting Irish. I rarely here someone say "I'm a North Dakota/University of North Dakota fan." It's always been "I'm a SIOUX(hockey) fan." You ask them about their name...and they throw a fit. It's really sad. It's almost exclusively the hockey fans who do it...which makes me feel bad for the 10 or so fans of their other sports(which are all pretty terrible).

My alma mater used to sell shirts that said "Sioux Suck" and showed an indian engaging in an oral act of love with a Bison.

 

[NDgradstudent]

They don't announce the new name at hockey games because of fans booing the name that THEY voted on.

So there is a big division in North Dakota between hockey fans who really wanted to keep the name and everyone else? Because I was surprised that the public voted for a new name (whatever that would be, it wasn't decided in 2012 of course). Or was it more just 'we're doing this under duress' but still want to keep the old name around informally?

 

[GoIrish41]

So there is a big division in North Dakota between hockey fans who really wanted to keep the name and everyone else? Because I was surprised that the public voted for a new name (whatever that would be, it wasn't decided in 2012 of course). Or was it more just 'we're doing this under duress' but still want to keep the old name around informally?

I hear the Trump supporters want "Druken Indians". The Donald probably hates those redskin heathens because they get all the breaks in the casino resort biz. He wants to build a wall around the reservations, too.

 

[dshans]

I hear the Trump supporters want "Druken Indians". The Donald probably hates those redskin heathens because they get all the breaks in the casino resort biz. He wants to build a wall around the reservations, too.

Politically "incorrect?"

Culturally incorrect?

Morally incorrect?

Historically correct ... ?

 

[phgreek]

I hear the Trump supporters want "Druken Indians". The Donald probably hates those redskin heathens because they get all the breaks in the casino resort biz. He wants to build a wall around the reservations, too.

Is "Druken" like Neked...where you are naked, but you are up to something?

 

[NorthDakota]

So there is a big division in North Dakota between hockey fans who really wanted to keep the name and everyone else? Because I was surprised that the public voted for a new name (whatever that would be, it wasn't decided in 2012 of course). Or was it more just 'we're doing this under duress' but still want to keep the old name around informally?

Let's just say there is UND fans and then there is Sioux hockey fans.

All of them would have liked to be able to keep the name. But when sanctions were threatened, and all other avenues to keep it were closed, the Sioux hockey fans decided it wouldn't really hurt the hockey program and didn't care what adverse effects that would have on the school as a whole. You can see where that would cause friction. Some of the real UND fans have been good about moving on.

The public vote only decided that they would be allowed to change it if the school wanted after the Indian tribes in the state didn't help them keep it (one tribe had been officially against the name for quite a long time). It definitely helped them that it was a statewide vote so non-psychotic people were able to vote too.

 

[NorthDakota]

I hear the Trump supporters want "Druken Indians". The Donald probably hates those redskin heathens because they get all the breaks in the casino resort biz. He wants to build a wall around the reservations, too.

I still have nightmares from our trips to the reservation for sports.

I wonder if actually closing the reservations is a good long term goal.

 

[connor_in]

Is It OK When A Chef Cooks Other People's Food? The Rick Bayless Question : The Salt : NPR

When Is It OK To Profit From Cooking Other Cultures' Food? You Weighed In : The Salt : NPR

 

[ACamp1900]

When Is It OK To Profit From Cooking Other Cultures' Food? You Weighed In : The Salt : NPR

This stuff is funny... I laugh whenever someone says only Italians can cook pasta or only Mexicans can make a burrito.. and if your Sushi joint has anyone but an Asian cutting the fish... it can't be any good...

If a person can cook they can cook... and any ethnic cuisine can be mastered by just about anyone who puts in the time... ... well except maybe Chinese food... those people are wizards or some shit...

but seriously, I know plenty of people who swear off certain food joints just because they have a cook that doesn't match the ethnicity of the food and act totally indignant over it. It just seems dumb to me. If it's good, it's good... if we can all marry each other, and celebrate/enjoy each other's diverse holidays and celebrations, what's the big deal in cooking each other's foods???

 

[ACamp1900]

Example:

There is this GREAT Pho joint right across the street from our work, super cheap super good. Love Vietnamese food. Anyway, I have a co worker who definitely seemed to enjoy it until we all found out the kitchen is filled with non Vietnamese... now all of a sudden the place is an abomination to this gal... lol. whatever, more noodles for me.

 

[bkess8]

If a person can cook they can cook... and any ethnic cuisine can be mastered by just about anyone who puts in the time... ... well except maybe Chinese food... those people are wizards or some shit...

I have tried AND FAILED so many times to mimic the Chinese pork fried rice from my favorite joint here in SD. After many failures I have accepted the fact that a white guy from the Midwest wasn't made to make fried rice and that I will have to just go but it from now on.

 

[ACamp1900]

I have tried AND FAILED so many times to mimic the Chinese pork fried rice from my favorite joint here in SD. After many failures I have accepted the fact that a white guy from the Midwest wasn't made to make fried rice and that I will have to just go but it from now on.

It's not just you... my wife and I have 'mastered' to varying degrees dishes in just about every ethnic food you can think of within reason with the exception of Chinese... I'm telling you, they're wizards...

 

[pkt77242]

I have tried AND FAILED so many times to mimic the Chinese pork fried rice from my favorite joint here in SD. After many failures I have accepted the fact that a white guy from the Midwest wasn't made to make fried rice and that I will have to just go but it from now on.

It could be you but probably also because homes don't have the type of burner needed for woks (and subsequently fried rice and stir fry). A true burner for a wok looks like a jet engine afterburner (as far as the flame coming out). Crazy high heat which home burners just can't replicate.

 

[BeauBenken]

I know it's from Britain, but saw this posted somewhere and thought you all would have a heyday with it.

Poor White Boys get 'a worse start in life' says equality report

 

[phgreek]

the point...statistical disparity doesn't always mean racism. This appears to be a pretty good example of that. When you simply assume racism is the cause of all disparity...you become part of the problem.

 

[IrishLax]

I once tried to make hot and sour soup.

That's the end of the story, you can guess how it turned out.

 

[zelezo vlk]

It could be you but probably also because homes don't have the type of burner needed for woks (and subsequently fried rice and stir fry). A true burner for a wok looks like a jet engine afterburner (as far as the flame coming out). Crazy high heat which home burners just can't replicate.

This is what I've been told. That and a butt ton of MSG

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[connor_in]

 

[connor_in]

 

[Irish YJ]

The nerve. I'm cancelling my performance in NC.