Police State USA

[NDRock]

It appears the officer definitely overreacted and mishandled the situation. Whether that indicates a lack of proper training or he just had the wrong disposition for the job is hard to say. He may have been a good cop, but have been dealing with some other issues that pushed him out of his normal behavior zone (we saw a case a year or two ago where an otherwise outstanding officer overreacted in a case after having just worked a suicide). He may have been a guy who had no business in this line of work. We don't know enough to make that determination right now.

I believe he had no business in this kind of work. I work in emergency services (fire) and that guy freaked out. Obviously a stressful situation but cooler heads must prevail if you want have that type of career.

The problem is, what should his punishment be? This was not a "dirty" cop with a history of breaking the law. This was a guy who screwed up a stressful situation. I would have a hard time sending him to jail for 10 years because of this. I think juries have the same problem but by voting not guilty it looks like the cop did nothing wrong.

 

[IrishLax]

I believe he had no business in this kind of work. I work in emergency services (fire) and that guy freaked out. Obviously a stressful situation but cooler heads must prevail if you want have that type of career.

The problem is, what should his punishment be? This was not a "dirty" cop with a history of breaking the law. This was a guy who screwed up a stressful situation. I would have a hard time sending him to jail for 10 years because of this. I think juries have the same problem but by voting not guilty it looks like the cop did nothing wrong.

The unskilled driver who panics and causes a multi-car wreck resulting in fatalities through their error/negligence is usually guilty of vehicular manslaughter. I think the same standard should apply to police officers who can't handle their responsibilities or make a mistake.

 

[wizards8507]

The problem is, what should his punishment be? This was not a "dirty" cop with a history of breaking the law. This was a guy who screwed up a stressful situation. I would have a hard time sending him to jail for 10 years because of this. I think juries have the same problem but by voting not guilty it looks like the cop did nothing wrong.

That's the difference between manslaughter and murder.

 

[dshans]

The thing with George Zimmerman was that he was getting his ass beat

So, for the sake of argument (and I'm sure that one will ensue), would Trayvon, had he been "packing" been justified in shooting Zimmerman because he felt that he was in mortal danger of a stranger who had been stalking him rather than confronting him physically?

Would he have been found not guilty of any wrongdoing?

 

[IrishLax]

So, for the sake of argument (and I'm sure that one will ensue), would Trayvon, had he been "packing" been justified in shooting Zimmerman because he felt that he was in mortal danger of a stranger who had been stalking him rather than confronting him physically?

Would he have been found not guilty of any wrongdoing?

Huh?

The answer is no, you're not allowed to shoot someone on public property just for following you. And you obviously know that.

 

[dshans]

The answer is no, you're not allowed to shoot someone on public property just for following you. And you obviously know that.

This happened in Florida. The "Stand Your Ground" statute adds a significant twist.

Had Trayvon, in fear of a stranger tailing him, simply shot Zimmerman, rather than confronting him "manually," been afforded the same legal consideration?

 

[BGIF]

This happened in Florida. The "Stand Your Ground" statute adds a significant twist.

Had Trayvon, in fear of a stranger tailing him, simply shot Zimmerman, rather than confronting him "manually," been afforded the same legal consideration?

Zimmerman was acquitted because a witness testified Martin was on top of Zimmerman and was pounding Zimmerman's head into the pavement when Zimmerman shot him. Zimmerman had head lacerations and contusions consistent with that testimony and medical reports confirming the injury. Forensics confirmed the bullet trajectory was also consistent Martin on top of Zimmerman who was pinned on his back on the sidewalk. Zimmerman wasn't assuming an impled threat, he was getting his brains bashed out when he pulled his gun and shot Martin. Hugh difference.

Also while Florida is a "Stand your ground state" Zimmerman waived his rights before a judge to use that defense. Mother Jones, et al, have continued to erroneously report "Stand your ground" as the key to the verdict. It wasn't.

There's a thread on Zimmerman and Martin on IE with links to testimony, statutes, and rulings.


Based on your hypothetical The Baseball Diamond Shooter should be acquitted of attempted murder of Scalise and others because he feared his life was in danger because of Scalise's political actions.

 

[BGIF]

This happened in Florida. The "Stand Your Ground" statute adds a significant twist.

Had Trayvon, in fear of a stranger tailing him, simply shot Zimmerman, rather than confronting him "manually," been afforded the same legal consideration?

Martin would have been at the least in violation of Florida gun laws. FL requires a person be at least 18 to own or POSESS a gun. He was also underage for a carry permit.

 

[IrishLax]

This happened in Florida. The "Stand Your Ground" statute adds a significant twist.

Had Trayvon, in fear of a stranger tailing him, simply shot Zimmerman, rather than confronting him "manually," been afforded the same legal consideration?

Zimmerman never used the "stand your ground" statute at any point of his defense. So now we're just talking about a random hypothetical... could Martin have got away with shooting Zimmerman had he been the one carrying (which isn't even legally possible given Martin's age) and Zimmerman not touched him. I don't really get the point of this thought experiment, so count me out. It's all completely irrelevant to police officers and the discussion of excessive force/accountability which is what this thread is about. There is another very long thread dedicated Zimmerman and Martin if you want to play make believe there.

 

[dshans]

It is, Lax, a "thought experiment" quite germane to the discussion.

Are those in a position of authority, whether anointed or assumed, granted a certain legal latitude otherwise undeserved, or granted to the general public?

Had Zimmerman not dogged Trayvon, as a self-appointed guard in the Neighborhood Watch, the whole damn mess would have been avoided.

Does the door of "fearing for one's safety" swing both ways?

Trayvon, quite legally, did not bring a gun to what might have been an outdoor "bar fight."

Though Zimmerman did not raise the issue of "Stand Your Ground," he didn't need to. It was inculcated in the jury.

It is a matter of authority (wrongly perceived or poorly administered) given unconscionable leeway.



Back to the killing du jour, brought to you by misguided cops and juries everywhere.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Martins problem was that he was underage to carry a gun and didn't shoot first, had he had one, claiming he was fearful for his life.

The police recording of dispatch telling zimmerman to stop following him, and his refusal to do so, would more than likely have been all that was needed for Martin to be found not guilty.

The unfortunate moral of the story is when you feel threatened, make sure you shoot first.

It was a sad situation all around and as shitty as this turned out, I still believe the right to defend yourself in such a way is necessary.

 

[Legacy]

Australian PM demands answers from US over 'shocking' police shooting (Telegraph.uk)

 

[NDRock]

Australian PM demands answers from US over 'shocking' police shooting (Telegraph.uk)

This is a very interesting story (sad of course). Muslim police officer kills a white woman. I'm sure there are a bunch of people out there on both sides trying to figure out which side to take as it doesn't fit in with their "agendas".

 

[PANDFAN]

guy has 3 complaints against him ?
body camera doesn't get turned on until after she is shot ?
shoots through the window of the car at girl because he heard a loud noise?

 

[woolybug25]

This is a very interesting story (sad of course). Muslim police officer kills a white woman. I'm sure there are a bunch of people out there on both sides trying to figure out which side to take as it doesn't fit in with their "agendas".

Don't forget the officer is black as well.

The response difference to this incident is really interesting. No Black Lives Matter comment, nobody coming to the defense of the police officer, nobody really saying anything. Both sides of the "Police State" debate get thrown a curve ball.

 

[BGIF]

Body camera video allegedly shows Baltimore cop planting evidence - CNN.com
By Miguel Marquez, CNN
Updated 7:27 AM ET, Thu July 20, 2017

Whoops!

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Body camera video allegedly shows Baltimore cop planting evidence - CNN.com
By Miguel Marquez, CNN
Updated 7:27 AM ET, Thu July 20, 2017

Whoops!

But it's CNN so it must be Fake News!

 

[dublinirish]

Body camera video allegedly shows Baltimore cop planting evidence - CNN.com
By Miguel Marquez, CNN
Updated 7:27 AM ET, Thu July 20, 2017

Whoops!

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Baltimore....are we shocked?

 

[IrishLion]

Body camera video allegedly shows Baltimore cop planting evidence - CNN.com
By Miguel Marquez, CNN
Updated 7:27 AM ET, Thu July 20, 2017

Whoops!

Haha if you watch the video, it's not even clever/believable.

He's in the front yard of a house after an arrest, says "hold on let me check back here!" and the proceeds to walk directly to the trash-strewn back yard, and walks directly to a specific area of trash (out of the whole backyard), where he conveniently picks out the one soup can with drugs in it.

#CmonMan

 

[Cackalacky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cop pulls over a black man for failure to signal, walks to his car with his gun drawn.. Black dude is my hero 🙌🏽🏆 <a href="https://t.co/MJDv1zMNul">pic.twitter.com/MJDv1zMNul</a></p>— BPV (@BlackPplVines) <a href="https://twitter.com/BlackPplVines/status/906891748181508097?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Buster Bluth]

Yeahhhh without a clip of the gun actually drawn, what's the big deal? I hate to say it but if I were black I'd have a dashcam setup in my car pointing in every damn direction.

 

[NDdomer2]

this cop just taking it tho, ok

 

[ACamp1900]

Hmm, really the cop handled it well from what we see. Also, I love the 'do you feel empowered?" comment... should have asked himself the same question.

 

[wizards8507]

Why is this guy a hero? This kind of behavior is exactly the thing that gets you treated shitty by the cops. Hands on the wheel, lights on, radio off, keep your mouth shut, say "yes sir" and "no sir" and nobody gets shot.

 

[dublinirish]

Why is this guy a hero? This kind of behavior is exactly the thing that gets you treated shitty by the cops. Hands on the wheel, lights on, radio off, keep your mouth shut, say "yes sir" and "no sir" and nobody gets shot.

probably cos the cop walked up to him with his gun drawn?

 

[calvegas04]

probably cos the cop walked up to him with his gun drawn?

I dint see a gun pulled out

 

[ACamp1900]

probably cos the cop walked up to him with his gun drawn?

and alas he was allowed to go on his diatribe the entire time without, contrary to the narrative, being beaten or shot at...

I'm just saying, I've had a gun drawn on me by a cop over a simple, stupid misunderstanding... not had a cop have a gun out the holster, but literally drawn on me. The last freakin thing you want to do after that is go off on the cop that didn't fire.

 

[dad4aa]

Chances are it was a bullshit move by the cop to have his gun drawn. Problem is, we will never know the full circumstances. Like did his car fit the description of a recent crime? Have there been issues in that area in the past that have made cops hesitant to be in that area? Either way, I understand the pissed off attitude but you made your point in the first 15 seconds, you didn't need to ramble on for nearly 2 minutes.

 

[IrishLion]

Why is this guy a hero? This kind of behavior is exactly the thing that gets you treated shitty by the cops. Hands on the wheel, lights on, radio off, keep your mouth shut, say "yes sir" and "no sir" and nobody gets shot.

This is all true. If you make the cop's day easier and use your manners, they'll usually cut you a break for small stuff (unless it's quota time at the end of the month, in which case they're cool but still give you the ticket).

But the cop walking to the car with his gun drawn for a turn signal violation is alarming. Wish it were on camera, that way the story could be about that and not the guy's reaction video.