PJ Fleck

[GowerND11]

Also, people are acting like they were totally blown out. I saw this coming after they beat PSU. This is what happens All. The. Time. in college football. Plucky, on the rise, feel good story program is able to upset the better, higher ranked team at home, and then fall flat the next week. Absolute hangover.

That's always a tough job for any coach of one of these programs.

 

[ACamp1900]

Wait, so a loss to a decent Iowa team and suddenly PJ Fleck is trash??? Man, life comes at you fast huh???

 

[BabyIrish]

Wait, so a loss to a decent Iowa team and suddenly PJ Fleck is trash??? Man, life comes at you fast huh???

Seriously. I mean I'm not for getting rid of BK and hiring Fleck at this time, but this is what happens in College Football. Fleck seems to be a pretty good coach. And it's not his fault that his players were dropping balls that would have led to points.

 

[ACamp1900]

Seriously. I mean I'm not for getting rid of BK and hiring Fleck at this time, but this is what happens in College Football. Fleck seems to be a pretty good coach. And it's not his fault that his players were dropping balls that would have led to points.

It's almost like he coaches at Minnesota.....

 

[NorthDakota]

No shame in losing a close game at Iowa.

 

[gkIrish]

Wait, so a loss to a decent Iowa team and suddenly PJ Fleck is trash??? Man, life comes at you fast huh???

Don't you know that a coach has to be perfect at an inferior school before he is qualified to coach at Notre Dame?

It's not like Brian Kelly ever lost @UConn or something when he was at Cincinnati...

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm not for firing BK and hiring Fleck. (I'm not for firing BK at all at the moment)

Knowing what I know about ND, how they operate and what they look for in a coach, I wouldn't put any faith into Fleck to ND even if the timing was right when the BK era ends.

Do I personally like his Tony Robins spiel? Nope.

Then again...

Do I think he would do a great job at ND? 100% yes.

What do I fear most? That he's the next HC at Michigan.

At this point, I hope he's the next coach of the Bears. I don't care what Bears coaches do and say. I haven't listened to a Bears presser since Wanny. You listened to him just to hear his injury updates. "He's gotta hip, he's gotta leg, he's gotta neck thing..." He was gold.

 

[ACamp1900]

I still don't get a 'fire Bk and hire Fleck' vibe from anyone here really, but I also haven't combed the entire thread so maybe I missed something. I do however think he is a very strong candidate if Bk moves on soon... which I have said I feel is coming sooner than later.

Bottom line: This past weekend doesn't make me feel any differently about Fleck in general at all...

 

[ulukinatme]

I still don't get a 'fire Bk and hire Fleck' vibe from anyone here really, but I also haven't combed the entire thread so maybe I missed something. I do however think he is a very strong candidate if Bk moves on soon... which I have said I feel is coming sooner than later.

Bottom line: This past weekend doesn't make me feel any differently about Fleck in general at all...

There were definitely a few people that jumped off the BK wagon after Michigan and grabbed an oar to start rowing. Some of those people are still in the boat ready to go. The BK thread had a lot of it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Knowing what I know about ND, how they operate and what they look for in a coach, I wouldn't put any faith into Fleck to ND even if the timing was right when the BK era ends.

That's my feeling as well.

My only complaint about IE's recent pro-Fleck streak is that it's premature. If he can't win the B1G West, even at Minnesota, then he's not going to be successful here. Full stop. And I don't think he's going to.

Would be happy to be proven wrong; more options to potentially succeed BK are good for us. But I remain skeptical.

 

[BabyIrish]

That's my feeling as well.

My only complaint about IE's recent pro-Fleck streak is that it's premature. If he can't win the B1G West, even at Minnesota, then he's not going to be successful here. Full stop. And I don't think he's going to.

Would be happy to be proven wrong; more options to potentially succeed BK are good for us. But I remain skeptical.

While I tend to agree with your assessment, couldn't you make an argument that he's never going to have the top players available to win the BIG West at Minnesota?

 

[NDdomer2]

Don't you know that a coach has to be perfect at an inferior school before he is qualified to coach at Notre Dame?

It's not like Brian Kelly ever lost @UConn or something when he was at Cincinnati...

That may be what some feel. But I also think he should have to do a little more than what hes done to date.

The Penn State win was good, but before that their schedule was damn easy and I read almost half those games were against teams back up QBs. They wont play michigan or OSU this season (i know he plays the schedule but still), and are likely to end on a two game losing streak. Maybe he can win their bowl game against a quality opponent.

I don't disagree that hes a good up and comer but id like to see him maintain/improve next year before anyone really starts to consider him for ND.

But the way Crusader talks, its all moot anyways.

 

[NDdomer2]

While I tend to agree with your assessment, couldn't you make an argument that he's never going to have the top players available to win the BIG West at Minnesota?

Then what kind of recruiter is he? I dont think giving a future coach a handicap is the best way to go. "Well he didnt win because he was at XXX school" isnt something I'd ever want the decision makers to say when hiring the next coach at ND.

 

[Irish YJ]

There were definitely a few people that jumped off the BK wagon after Michigan and grabbed an oar to start rowing. Some of those people are still in the boat ready to go. The BK thread had a lot of it.

Personally, I'm pretty indifferent about BK. Not in the "fire BK" boat at all, just pretty meh. I also wouldn't be outraged if they hired Fleck or someone else that's young and coming up.

I am in the fire Long boat though.

Right now I'd just like to hop in my hot tub time machine and fast forward to the Buchner/Jordan Johnson/Tyree era.

 

[NDdomer2]

That's my feeling as well.

My only complaint about IE's recent pro-Fleck streak is that it's premature. If he can't win the B1G West, even at Minnesota, then he's not going to be successful here. Full stop. And I don't think he's going to.

Would be happy to be proven wrong; more options to potentially succeed BK are good for us. But I remain skeptical.

couldnt rep you but the bolded is where im at

 

[Whiskeyjack]

While I tend to agree with your assessment, couldn't you make an argument that he's never going to have the top players available to win the BIG West at Minnesota?

The B1G West is one of the least competitive divisions among the P5. If he's not capable of overachieving enough to at least make the B1G title game once within years 3-5, then I see no reason to expect he's going to do better than BK here.

 

[Wingman Ray]

The Penn State win was good, but before that their schedule was damn easy and I read almost half those games were against teams back up QBs. They wont play michigan or OSU this season (i know he plays the schedule but still), and are likely to end on a two game losing streak. Maybe he can win their bowl game against a quality opponent.
.

Imagine them lining up against a Texas or an Auburn or Baylor? Not a pretty day for MN.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Imagine them lining up against a Texas or an Auburn or Baylor? Not a pretty day for MN.

Texas is very mediocre this year, not sure that I'd take the Horns in that fight

 

[Irish YJ]

That's my feeling as well.

My only complaint about IE's recent pro-Fleck streak is that it's premature. If he can't win the B1G West, even at Minnesota, then he's not going to be successful here. Full stop. And I don't think he's going to.

Would be happy to be proven wrong; more options to potentially succeed BK are good for us. But I remain skeptical.

I don't think he wins it this year, but I do think he wins in the the next two years.
At WM, he went 1-11, 8-5, 8-5, 13-1. At MN he's went 5-7, 7-5, and currently 9-1. While it's a short track record, he does have a pretty clear trend of improvement. And let's be honest, MN was a cellar dweller for a long time, and will never be a big recruiting draw.

But agree on it being premature. But, the longer you wait on guys like this, the more likely the get a better offer at big time school that's easier to recruit/win. ND will likely have to roll the dice at some point when they are ready to, or have to, move on from BK.

 

[Irish YJ]

Imagine them lining up against a Texas or an Auburn or Baylor? Not a pretty day for MN.

TX isn't scaring anyone, unless they are simply enamored with their name/history. The fact that MN is in hunt for a CC spot, or big bowl spot, is pretty impressive. MN hasn't won a CC since the 60s. They haven't had a .600 or better coach since the 50s.

 

[IrishLion]

The B1G West is one of the least competitive divisions among the P5. If he's not capable of overachieving enough to at least make the B1G title game once within years 3-5, then I see no reason to expect he's going to do better than BK here.

Historically, yes, but I'm gonna nitpick and say the B1G West is a top-4 division in football this year according to SP+.

It helps that the ACC is way down, and that the Pac-12 is a snake eating its own tail, AND Minnesota still has to play Wisconsin... but Fleck is overachieving right now, IMO.

I'd imagine a tune-up against Northwestern will result in Minnesota beating Wisconsin in two weeks, and then we'll see how Fleck does against OSU.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't think he wins it this year, but I do think he wins in the the next two years.

At which point I will be excited about him potentially coaching at ND. But not before then.

But agree on it being premature. But, the longer you wait on guys like this, the more likely the get a better offer at big time school that's easier to recruit/win. ND will likely have to roll the dice at some point when they are ready to, or have to, move on from BK.

Guys like Fleck fail at the highest level far more often than they succeed. Nothing I've seen from him thus far would justify jumping the gun to get him.

You remember when BK was struggling in 2016 and Tom Herman was the new hotness? Texas hired him and there was plenty of bellyaching here that we'd continue to languish without that sort of decisiveness in hiring and firing from our admin. He just picked up his 3rd conference loss against Iowa State, has no hope of winning the Big-12, and won't be headed to a prestige bowl either. Longhorn fans are already losing patience with him.

And Herman's record at Houston was a helluva lot more impressive than anything Fleck has done to date! So let's temper the excitement for unproven coaches.

 

[BabyIrish]

At which point I will be excited about him potentially coaching at ND. But not before then.



Guys like Fleck fail at the highest level far more often than they succeed. Nothing I've seen from him thus far would justify jumping the gun to get him.

You remember when BK was struggling in 2016 and Tom Herman was the new hotness? Texas hired him and there was plenty of bellyaching here that we'd continue to languish without that sort of decisiveness in hiring and firing from our admin. He just picked up his 3rd conference loss against Iowa State, has no hope of winning the Big-12, and won't be headed to a prestige bowl either. Longhorn fans are already losing patience with him.

And Herman's record at Houston was a helluva lot more impressive than anything Fleck has done to date! So let's temper the excitement for unproven coaches.

I get what you are saying about Herman and BK, but those guys did it at non P5 schools, just like Fleck did at WMU. Both of Herman and BK then made the jump to the top of brand schools in the P5 level. You could make the argument that Fleck is doing more for his resume by taking a lower-tier P5 job when BK and Herman didn't and building them into relevancy and being discussed to be in the CFP.

 

[Luckylucci]

Yep, I remember when Herman was the business. In fact, wasn't it Sam Ehlinger that proclaimed "We're Back!" after they beat UGA in last years bowl game. I guess to them being back means 6-4

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I get what you are saying about Herman and BK, but those guys did it at non P5 schools, just like Fleck did at WMU. Both of Herman and BK then made the jump to the top of brand schools in the P5 level. You could make the argument that Fleck is doing more for his resume by taking a lower-tier P5 job when BK and Herman didn't and building them into relevancy and being discussed to be in the CFP.

Herman's record at Houston was 22-4. In 2015, the won the AAC and defeated 4 ranked opponents, including #9 FSU in the Peach Bowl. In 2016, he knocked off both Oklahoma and Louisville, which were each ranked #3 nationally when he coached against them.

I'd say that two-year stretch is more impressive than anything Fleck has done so far. And even though Minnesota has been down for a while, they're still a P5 program with an actual tradition, which gives Fleck a lot more to work with than coaches in the Group of Five have.

If he's the coach many of you seem to think he is, he'll win the B1G West within the next few years. Until then, the hype is unjustified.

 

[Irish YJ]

At which point I will be excited about him potentially coaching at ND. But not before then.



Guys like Fleck fail at the highest level far more often than they succeed. Nothing I've seen from him thus far would justify jumping the gun to get him.

You remember when BK was struggling in 2016 and Tom Herman was the new hotness? Texas hired him and there was plenty of bellyaching here that we'd continue to languish without that sort of decisiveness in hiring and firing from our admin. He just picked up his 3rd conference loss against Iowa State, has no hope of winning the Big-12, and won't be headed to a prestige bowl either. Longhorn fans are already losing patience with him.

And Herman's record at Houston was a helluva lot more impressive than anything Fleck has done to date! So let's temper the excitement for unproven coaches.

IDK. Herman took over Houston who was 8-5 two years in a row prior to him. They had one good year (his first) and then regressed a little in year two before getting the TX job. IMO, Herman was a one hit wonder in his first year as a HC. I think he was hired by TX as much for what he did at Rice, ISU, and OSU than Houston. Herman only had 2 years of HCing experience when taking over at TX, while Fleck is on year 6. I just don't see them as comparable from a HC perspective. Herman did have a very impressive track record as OC or O in general, but not as HC.

 

[Armyirish47]

Herman's record at Houston was 22-4. In 2015, the won the AAC and defeated 4 ranked opponents, including #9 FSU in the Peach Bowl. In 2016, he knocked off both Oklahoma and Louisville, which were each ranked #3 nationally when he coached against them.

I'd say that two-year stretch is more impressive than anything Fleck has done so far. And even though Minnesota has been down for a while, they're still a P5 program with an actual tradition, which gives Fleck a lot more to work with than coaches in the Group of Five have.

If he's the coach many of you seem to think he is, he'll win the B1G West within the next few years. Until then, the hype is unjustified.

Minnesota hasn't been THAT down.

Prior to Fleck:
2016: 9 - 4 Holiday Bowl ***Tracy Claeys one full year***
2015: 6 - 7 Quick Lane Bowl
2014: 8 - 5 Citrus Bowl
2013: 8 - 5 Texas Bowl
2012: 6 - 7 Meineke Car Care Bowl
2011: 3 - 9 ***Jerry Kill's first year***

 

[BabyIrish]

Herman's record at Houston was 22-4. In 2015, the won the AAC and defeated 4 ranked opponents, including #9 FSU in the Peach Bowl. In 2016, he knocked off both Oklahoma and Louisville, which were each ranked #3 nationally when he coached against them.

I'd say that two-year stretch is more impressive than anything Fleck has done so far. And even though Minnesota has been down for a while, they're still a P5 program with an actual tradition, which gives Fleck a lot more to work with than coaches in the Group of Five have.

If he's the coach many of you seem to think he is, he'll win the B1G West within the next few years. Until then, the hype is unjustified.

I haven't really made my mind up on Fleck personally, I think he's a good coach to be able to do what he has done at Minnesota and WMU. I have no idea if that translates to being successful at ND. That's why I'm asking questions to formulate an opinion on the matter.

I certainly thought Herman would be a lot more successful at UT already and that hasn't happened.

I personally think that BK can win a title here at ND, not sure if he will, and I certainly like the trajectory of the program in the last three years and the recruits we are bringing in for 20 and 21.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'd say that two-year stretch is more impressive than anything Fleck has done so far. And even though Minnesota has been down for a while, they're still a P5 program with an actual tradition, which gives Fleck a lot more to work with than coaches in the Group of Five have.

If he's the coach many of you seem to think he is, he'll win the B1G West within the next few years. Until then, the hype is unjustified.

One could say Houston's tradition is greater than MN since 1960. Heck, they almost beat us in 78.

 

[ACamp1900]

One could say Houston's tradition is greater than MN since 1960. Heck, they almost beat us in 78.