ND Coaching Changes 2016

stlnd01

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I think the biggest differentiator between us (and, frankly, most programs) and the Clemsons and Alabamas of the world is a stud defensive front. Guys who can blow up the run, create pressure without blitzing and generally wreak havoc on an offense. A whole pile of them.
Unfortunately that seems to be the hardest thing for us to recruit and develop.
 

OCIrish

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Meh. All you need is a stud qb and OL (which we have) and play decent defense. We'll be fine.


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I hate to break it to you, but Clemson had a pretty damned good defense and still gave up 31 to Bama who had an OC who hasn't called plays in about 4 yrs or so. A decent defense IS NOT going to get it done.
 

dublinirish

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I think the biggest differentiator between us (and, frankly, most programs) and the Clemsons and Alabamas of the world is a stud defensive front. Guys who can blow up the run, create pressure without blitzing and generally wreak havoc on an offense. A whole pile of them.
Unfortunately that seems to be the hardest thing for us to recruit and develop.

it's hard for every team in CFB.
 

Wingman Ray

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Yeah Clemson played the game of the year for them and Bama didnt. Add their starting RB who was killing Clemson got put out of the game.

But lets analyze this a bit.

The more cerebral players tend to be offensive players. ND hasnt had a real problem with getting them. OLmen are considered the smartest men often on the team.

DL traditionally stereotypically are the dumbest. Seems quite a coincidence that a traditionally lower intelligence athlete group (therefore harder to make admissions) just happens to be the group ND struggles to attract.
 

dublinirish

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Yeah Clemson played the game of the year for them and Bama didnt. Add their starting RB who was killing Clemson got put out of the game.

But lets analyze this a bit.

The more cerebral players tend to be offensive players. ND hasnt had a real problem with getting them. OLmen are considered the smartest men often on the team.

DL traditionally stereotypically are the dumbest. Seems quite a coincidence that a traditionally lower intelligence athlete group (therefore harder to make admissions) just happens to be the group ND struggles to attract.

former DL here and can attest. I is dumb
 

Wild Bill

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See, dude, I agree with everything you say, and particularly enjoyed your obviously enlightened presentation of 'A day in the life of an Offensive lineman,' but dude, as team leaders, which we were talking about Zack 5/5, Nick 2/5, Ronnie 1/5, and Will about 2.5/5. What that team had instead of great leadership was a whole bunch of Ronnie, and Will, (CJ, CJ, DK, Big Mike, Sheldon, Jaylon (Ohmygod!) Isaac, Mathias and etc. Guys that were freaks, and freakishly playing beyond what anyone expected, that bound together and wouldn't quit. Maybe that is a kind of leadership, but not what the op was specifically talking about.

We need that freakish freakism next year, to have any shot at a decent season.

I see the distinction, just trying to point out that it's difficult for an offensive lineman to be a team leader given the nature of the position.

DL traditionally stereotypically are the dumbest. Seems quite a coincidence that a traditionally lower intelligence athlete group (therefore harder to make admissions) just happens to be the group ND struggles to attract.

Is it admissions or near misses plus lack of production/development?

Jarron Jones was highly rated and so was Rochelle. Rochelle produced, imo. Jones could have been better but had some development issues (maybe injury, maybe coaching, maybe a little of both). They had Hubbard and Vanderdoes committed but lost both for whatever reason. Solomon Thomas was a near miss if I remember correctly. You lock down the two you lost and get a guy like Thomas to choose ND over Stanford and and we're looking good on the DL.
 
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Cackalacky

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Sorry if already posted bit has Clakr Lea been hired officially? Sounds like Driskell thinks so in his latest podcast.
 

TheTurningPoint

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I think you may consider someone a leader and the guy next to you wouldn't consider the same person a leader, as the definition of a leader is likely going to be different between two people.

Take for instance Matthias Farley.

He had a career where he started out redshirting and no one gave a thought to whether or not he'd make an impact in 2012 in his redshirt freshman season. The kid got thrown into the starting safety role when Jamoris Slaughter went down and played well.

Then in his sophomore year, he battled through injuries and never lived up to the promise he showed as a redshirt freshman.

The fan base got down on him and he was the butt of many jokes.

Come his junior season in 2014, he made the move to nickel back, a move that some might have questioned and he blossomed. His limitations were hidden and he had a big year. He started to show more and more confidence, as he started to play better, which in turn put him into a leadership role by the end of the year.

Finally, in his fifth season, Farley was asked to move out of the nickel and back to safety where things were rough, as BVG was trying to give Max Redfield every shot to win the job, but never took hold of it. Farley was always the saving grace and bailed Notre Dame out with good play, but not the game-changing play needed from the free safety position.

However, Farley didn't pout, he didn't turn into a ghost on the sideline. He embraced the role and ran with it.

The kid helped the team grow. He helped on defense and special teams. He got on players in practice and in games. Was he Harrison Smith on the field? No, but he made sure the team was locked in and made sure the locker room was good.

Much can be said about Chris Brown during his time at Notre Dame. Here's a kid that wasn't used as well as he could have been, but the kid never uttered a bad word about the offense or being misused. He led the WR corps for two years, while not being the star of the show. If you watched A Season With, you saw that. It was Brown leading the group, not Will Fuller, not Corey Robinson or Amir Carlisle.

While Brown wasn't a captain, that's what Notre Dame missed the most in 2016. They missed the leaders in position groups that held the group accountable.

They missed Farley making sure the younger guys were up to speed and knew what was going on whether or not they were playing.

Now is that all the problems in 2016? Absolutely not, but it was a big one that contributed to losing games late. No one stepped up in 2016.

Whether it was right or wrong, I think that's why Kelly gave Zaire more of a shot than he should have. Zaire has unique leadership qualities that Kizer simply didn't have. That's not saying Kizer wasn't a leader or the team didn't follow him, but for Zaire it just comes natural. However, if you can't make plays, then you can't play and Zaire never did that in 2016.

I think in 2017, Notre Dame will have more of the Chris Brown's, Matthias Farley's on the team. It's an older team. They saw what worked and what didn't work in 2016. It's on them to change that part of the locker room.
 
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I think you may consider someone a leader and the guy next to you wouldn't consider the same person a leader, as the definition of a leader is likely going to be different between two people.

Take for instance Matthias Farley.

He had a career where he started out redshirting and no one gave a thought to whether or not he'd make an impact in 2012 in his redshirt freshman season. The kid got thrown into the starting safety role when Jamoris Slaughter went down and played well.

Then in his sophomore year, he battled through injuries and never lived up to the promise he showed as a redshirt freshman.

The fan base got down on him and he was the butt of many jokes.

Come his junior season in 2014, he made the move to nickel back, a move that some might have questioned and he blossomed. His limitations were hidden and he had a big year. He started to show more and more confidence, as he started to play better, which in turn put him into a leadership role by the end of the year.

Finally, in his fifth season, Farley was asked to move out of the nickel and back to safety where things were rough, as BVG was trying to give Max Redfield every shot to win the job, but never took hold of it. Farley was always the saving grace and bailed Notre Dame out with good play, but not the game-changing play needed from the free safety position.

However, Farley didn't pout, he didn't turn into a ghost on the sideline. He embraced the role and ran with it.

The kid helped the team grow. He helped on defense and special teams. He got on players in practice and in games. Was he Harrison Smith on the field? No, but he made sure the team was locked in and made sure the locker room was good.

Much can be said about Chris Brown during his time at Notre Dame. Here's a kid that wasn't used as well as he could have been, but the kid never uttered a bad word about the offense or being misused. He led the WR corps for two years, while not being the star of the show. If you watched A Season With, you saw that. It was Brown leading the group, not Will Fuller, not Corey Robinson or Amir Carlisle.

While Brown wasn't a captain, that's what Notre Dame missed the most in 2016. They missed the leaders in position groups that held the group accountable.

They missed Farley making sure the younger guys were up to speed and knew what was going on whether or not they were playing.

Now is that all the problems in 2016? Absolutely not, but it was a big one that contributed to losing games late. No one stepped up in 2016.

Whether it was right or wrong, I think that's why Kelly gave Zaire more of a shot than he should have. Zaire has unique leadership qualities that Kizer simply didn't have. That's not saying Kizer wasn't a leader or the team didn't follow him, but for Zaire it just comes natural. However, if you can't make plays, then you can't play and Zaire never did that in 2016.

I think in 2017, Notre Dame will have more of the Chris Brown's, Matthias Farley's on the team. It's an older team. They saw what worked and what didn't work in 2016. It's on them to change that part of the locker room.

Excellent post. Guys like Wimbush, Alize, Adams, Nelson, Nyles, Jay Hayes, Tranquil, Cage etc etc have all been playing together for a good while now and I see those leadership qualities coming together this year. Thanks TP
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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I think you may consider someone a leader and the guy next to you wouldn't consider the same person a leader, as the definition of a leader is likely going to be different between two people.

Take for instance Matthias Farley.

He had a career where he started out redshirting and no one gave a thought to whether or not he'd make an impact in 2012 in his redshirt freshman season. The kid got thrown into the starting safety role when Jamoris Slaughter went down and played well.

Then in his sophomore year, he battled through injuries and never lived up to the promise he showed as a redshirt freshman.

The fan base got down on him and he was the butt of many jokes.

Come his junior season in 2014, he made the move to nickel back, a move that some might have questioned and he blossomed. His limitations were hidden and he had a big year. He started to show more and more confidence, as he started to play better, which in turn put him into a leadership role by the end of the year.

Finally, in his fifth season, Farley was asked to move out of the nickel and back to safety where things were rough, as BVG was trying to give Max Redfield every shot to win the job, but never took hold of it. Farley was always the saving grace and bailed Notre Dame out with good play, but not the game-changing play needed from the free safety position.

However, Farley didn't pout, he didn't turn into a ghost on the sideline. He embraced the role and ran with it.

The kid helped the team grow. He helped on defense and special teams. He got on players in practice and in games. Was he Harrison Smith on the field? No, but he made sure the team was locked in and made sure the locker room was good.

Much can be said about Chris Brown during his time at Notre Dame. Here's a kid that wasn't used as well as he could have been, but the kid never uttered a bad word about the offense or being misused. He led the WR corps for two years, while not being the star of the show. If you watched A Season With, you saw that. It was Brown leading the group, not Will Fuller, not Corey Robinson or Amir Carlisle.

While Brown wasn't a captain, that's what Notre Dame missed the most in 2016. They missed the leaders in position groups that held the group accountable.

They missed Farley making sure the younger guys were up to speed and knew what was going on whether or not they were playing.

Now is that all the problems in 2016? Absolutely not, but it was a big one that contributed to losing games late. No one stepped up in 2016.

Whether it was right or wrong, I think that's why Kelly gave Zaire more of a shot than he should have. Zaire has unique leadership qualities that Kizer simply didn't have. That's not saying Kizer wasn't a leader or the team didn't follow him, but for Zaire it just comes natural. However, if you can't make plays, then you can't play and Zaire never did that in 2016.

I think in 2017, Notre Dame will have more of the Chris Brown's, Matthias Farley's on the team. It's an older team. They saw what worked and what didn't work in 2016. It's on them to change that part of the locker room.

Awesome post.

You actually brought tears to my eyes.

I agree with everything you said. In fact, I see that the question we should have been considering isn't 'who led like a captain,' but who provided the subtle leadership of being a good teammate, playing to the best of one's ability, continually, and having time and faith to put everyone else first. Because that is what you described! And certainly you are correct, team 127 had that in spades!

Let me say, I am jealous of you being able to live it first hand. And as far as MFarley, we were among his biggest fans, never down on him. Even at his lowest. We knew he would be successful at whatever he did. My son used to track him on the field, or sideline all game long. I was not surprised to see his rookie preseason grades in the NFL at all.

And with any wisdom that comes from advanced age (Of course I am totally hyperbolizing!), you can mark it down and tell anyone, in the long run I would rather be a Mathias Farley, than someone with all the skill and talent, to whom it comes easy, but none of the intelligence or heart a guy that is willing to put everything on the line has.

Sixty second superstars come and go, and most do crash and burn after a few years at a boys game, but guys like Farley and Brown, guys that have all the tools, they have something that is far more valuable than a little fame. To me, these guys are the 'Real Notre Dame Men,' whatever that is! But it is valuable as hell, because that is why they are in such demand, no matter what they do.

I do have a couple of questions :
Do you think the reason no Farley's or Brown's popped up this last season was because the team was just so young?
What about McGlinchey? On the cusp? Or cursed by Wild Bill's lineman's lament, (see post 1614)?
Who do you see as the most likely candidates to step up this coming season?

Thanks, again!
 
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irishff1014

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I think you may consider someone a leader and the guy next to you wouldn't consider the same person a leader, as the definition of a leader is likely going to be different between two people.

Take for instance Matthias Farley.

He had a career where he started out redshirting and no one gave a thought to whether or not he'd make an impact in 2012 in his redshirt freshman season. The kid got thrown into the starting safety role when Jamoris Slaughter went down and played well.

Then in his sophomore year, he battled through injuries and never lived up to the promise he showed as a redshirt freshman.

The fan base got down on him and he was the butt of many jokes.

Come his junior season in 2014, he made the move to nickel back, a move that some might have questioned and he blossomed. His limitations were hidden and he had a big year. He started to show more and more confidence, as he started to play better, which in turn put him into a leadership role by the end of the year.

Finally, in his fifth season, Farley was asked to move out of the nickel and back to safety where things were rough, as BVG was trying to give Max Redfield every shot to win the job, but never took hold of it. Farley was always the saving grace and bailed Notre Dame out with good play, but not the game-changing play needed from the free safety position.

However, Farley didn't pout, he didn't turn into a ghost on the sideline. He embraced the role and ran with it.

The kid helped the team grow. He helped on defense and special teams. He got on players in practice and in games. Was he Harrison Smith on the field? No, but he made sure the team was locked in and made sure the locker room was good.

Much can be said about Chris Brown during his time at Notre Dame. Here's a kid that wasn't used as well as he could have been, but the kid never uttered a bad word about the offense or being misused. He led the WR corps for two years, while not being the star of the show. If you watched A Season With, you saw that. It was Brown leading the group, not Will Fuller, not Corey Robinson or Amir Carlisle.

While Brown wasn't a captain, that's what Notre Dame missed the most in 2016. They missed the leaders in position groups that held the group accountable.

They missed Farley making sure the younger guys were up to speed and knew what was going on whether or not they were playing.

Now is that all the problems in 2016? Absolutely not, but it was a big one that contributed to losing games late. No one stepped up in 2016.

Whether it was right or wrong, I think that's why Kelly gave Zaire more of a shot than he should have. Zaire has unique leadership qualities that Kizer simply didn't have. That's not saying Kizer wasn't a leader or the team didn't follow him, but for Zaire it just comes natural. However, if you can't make plays, then you can't play and Zaire never did that in 2016.

I think in 2017, Notre Dame will have more of the Chris Brown's, Matthias Farley's on the team. It's an older team. They saw what worked and what didn't work in 2016. It's on them to change that part of the locker room.

Great post TP.
 

ulukinatme

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Yeah Clemson played the game of the year for them and Bama didnt. Add their starting RB who was killing Clemson got put out of the game.

But lets analyze this a bit.

The more cerebral players tend to be offensive players. ND hasnt had a real problem with getting them. OLmen are considered the smartest men often on the team.

DL traditionally stereotypically are the dumbest. Seems quite a coincidence that a traditionally lower intelligence athlete group (therefore harder to make admissions) just happens to be the group ND struggles to attract.

former DL here and can attest. I is dumb

Got damn...this is a revelation. No wonder they never let me play DL!
 

Rack Em

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I still want to fire everyone. Hell, let's hire more coaches so we have more to fire.
 
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kmoose

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I still want to fire everyone. Hell, let's hire more coaches so we have more to fire.

RackEm/Touchdown Jesus...2020. Change you'll be entertained by! And wine coming out of every faucet...

I'd vote for that before I voted for any of the clowns that they paraded out this past year.
 

Rack Em

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RackEm/Touchdown Jesus...2020. Change you'll be entertained by! And wine coming out of every faucet...

I'd vote for that before I voted for any of the clowns that they paraded out this past year.

And the women will flock like the salmon of Capistrano
 

OCIrish

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RackEm/Touchdown Jesus...2020. Change you'll be entertained by! And wine coming out of every faucet...

I'll need to be given certain tasks to perform then, as I am the God of tits and wine.......because "that's what I do, I drink and I know things......."
 

FDNYIrish1

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I really believe that culture spawns leadership. That is why I'm hopeful some of these new coaches create a culture beneficial to the guys on the team. Setting an expectation of toughness and having a growth mindset can completely change this team quickly. It wasn't going to happen with the some of the members of the staff, and it needs to start from the top down. I don't think Kelly is that guy, but hopefully some of the new blood is given the opportunity.
 

Hammer Of The Gods

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I really believe that culture spawns leadership. That is why I'm hopeful some of these new coaches create a culture beneficial to the guys on the team. Setting an expectation of toughness and having a growth mindset can completely change this team quickly. It wasn't going to happen with the some of the members of the staff, and it needs to start from the top down. I don't think Kelly is that guy, but hopefully some of the new blood is given the opportunity.

Agreed. Starts in the weight room. Then onward from there.
 

dublinirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If true this would be an EXCELLENT hire for Notre Dame. My guess is he coaches WR's, where he had a great deal of success at Wisconsin & ASU <a href="https://t.co/m7aOHVAwUQ">https://t.co/m7aOHVAwUQ</a></p>— Bryan Driskell (@BGI_CoachD) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_CoachD/status/819244453781241871">January 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

the oracle has spoken, good hire
 

irish o'phile

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Kelly really changed course with all these hires. There are barely any remaining coaches from his "coaching tree". All new faces and relationships it seems. I am actually pretty pumped.

Side note, in retrospect the BVG hire was one of the worst hires I can recall. He didn't recruit and did a terrible job coaching. I can't think of a silver lining. Seeing these new guys recruit and reach out from day one gives additional context into BVGs lack of involvement.
 
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arrowryan

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Kelly really changed course with all these hires. There are barely any remaining coaches from his "cosching tree". All new faces and relationships it seems. I am actually pretty pumped.

Side note, in retrospect the BVG hire was one of the worst hires I can recall. He didn't recruit and did a terrible job coaching. I can't think of a silver lining. Seeing these new guys recruit and reach out from day one gives additional context into BVGs lack of involvement.

All of the change just makes me feel like we are going into 2017 blind. I could see a 10 win season and I could see a 6 win season. Hopefully it all pans out the way we want it to.
 
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