Game of Thrones

[Whiskeyjack]

(the whole battle plan was dumb as shit, but they were screwed no matter what)

Just gotta turn your brain off and enjoy the show for what it is now.

 

[ACamp1900]

Just gotta turn your brain off and enjoy the show for what it is now.

So it's a comic book franchise now???

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So it's a comic book franchise now???

Feige doesn't insult my intelligence as regularly as Benioff and Weiss do.

 

[IrishLion]

The best 'Game of Thrones' follow on Twitter, IMO, and a really good Twitter follow in general (especially if you like basketball, which I do not, but his Tweets are still funny as hell):

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Now that the biggest threat to the realm ever, death incarnate itself has been eliminated it's time to focus on the real villain. The pregnant lady with the Justin Beiber haircut</p>— Beyonce has an uncle named Larry Beyince. Bruh.... (@DragonflyJonez) <a href="https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1123314054754381824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

The best 'Game of Thrones' follow on Twitter, IMO, and a really good Twitter follow in general (especially if you like basketball, which I do not, but his Tweets are still funny as hell):

Similar to a tweet I saw (can't remember the source):

"So, we only need 1 episode to kill the NK but need 3 to take care of a pregnant lady and a pirate?"

 

[GATTACA!]

Feige doesn't insult my intelligence as regularly as Benioff and Weiss do.

You want good writing, but you need the bad pussy.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You want good writing, but you need the bad pussy.

PTSD Dog, but with pics of the Sand Snakes instead of Vietnam:

 

[greyhammer90]

Book Euron being the big bad after all = Not bad.
SHOW Euron being the big bad after all = Kill me.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Not really disagreeing with you. But at the same time, could you explain an alternative ending that the reader's club would've accepted?



As someone who didn't read the books and who doesn't get overly emotional about tv show plot details, I found that scene to be pretty great. For me, it was more about this great army of Dothraki men getting wiped out in a matter of seconds just a short while after Melisandre lights their swords in a brief moment of hope. The fear and discouragement in all the characters eyes after that happened set the scene, for me, that this was a losing battle and many would die.

Agree with BBG. At a purely surface level, I like the fervor Melisandre's parlor trick created, followed by emotional drop that occurs as the lights flickered out. They definitely envisioned this, then wrote to it but I liked it.

It was a moment of bravado with the thought "the lord of light is on our side" so they charged the enemy to begin the war.

I've thought threw this and I think it would've been more palatable with 3 changes, at least to us knuckledragging show onlys:

1. You can't have so many main characters escape death when they start on the front lines. Jamie, Brienne, Mr Giantsbane, Podrick, etc should've found been slowly cornered into a room with only a narrow passage way so they could at least have a reason for still existing.

2. The trebuchets should've been firing consistently. I guess the charge was supposed to really be a bravado - "against the plan" moment but damn it, i wanted to see more hurling balls of fire.

3. Tyrion should've had at least one, maybe two clever ploys to decimate the army so it wasn't so lopsided. I know they wanted us to lose hope but it got to the point where watching the last 15 or so minutes was grueling. They could've had Arya kill the NK about 10 mins earlier and spent the remaining episode with the emotional fallout of all the lost soliders - wailing/gnashing of teeth and the subsequent human inventory would've been a value-added move.

That would've made it more believable and complete to me.

 

[Blazers46]

Everyone in the entire world knows that the cavalry should have been held in reserve and then used to punish the undead horde with a sweeping move from either/both flanks.

BUT

We've been told many a time that the Dothraki don't play that. They charge the open field. That's their MO and that's basically all they're good at.

It's fitting that they went out that way.

(of course Dany should have told them to stay back in reserve and charge to break the horde, but the Unsullied were obviously much more disciplined for reserve fighting, via the phalanx move)

(the whole battle plan was dumb as shit, but they were screwed no matter what)

Did they fight to win or fight to save honor? Saying that because most thought they would lose anyway. Like the way Theon died... does he honestly think hes going to kill the NK? Or did he just want to go out with honor (what little he still had)? That is how I see it with the Dothraki attacking and the battle plan that made no sense and was scrapped almost immediatly... they went from a bad plan to just winging it pretty quick.

MY thinking was why not have the Dragons at the front lines? If they wanted to draw out the NK, then play your trump card first to lure him out. Plus it would have made things easier on the Dothraki to pick apart the rest that got through the front lines.

 

[IrishLion]

Book Euron being the big bad after all = Not bad.
SHOW Euron being the big bad after all = Kill me.

For real.

There are clues and theories in the books that Euron is about to become the baddest of asses.

From Dragonbinder, to the eerie reality of his ship and crew, to the visions and prophecies that he’s going to get his hands on a set of Valyrian armor while also possibly commanding a living embodiment of the Drowned God as a kraken... I still wouldn’t be thrilled at him being the final enemy, but at least there is some mystique being built.

Show Euron is just an edgy goth dude that’s good at sailing and kind of good at fighting.

 

[greyhammer90]

We've been told many a time that the Dothraki don't play that. They charge the open field. That's their MO and that's basically all they're good at.

I think you just unintentionally perfectly explained the difference between GRRM and D&D.

GRRM writes: The Dothraki fearsome people who have never been defeated in an open field because they are master strategists and warriors that use their mobility and skill on horseback to take out armies that are slower and less flexible.

D&D: Well, we've established that the Dothraki are tribal horseback fighters, so they should charge.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not really disagreeing with you. But at the same time, could you explain an alternative ending that the reader's club would've accepted?

Here's a reddit post with a brief outline of all the obvious strategic blunders included in S8E3. GRRM knows enough about medieval history that you never stop and say, "Why the fuck would they do that?" when reading the books. Makes it difficult to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the scene. Other things that would have helped:

• Some revelation, probably through Bran, regarding the why and the how behind the White Walkers.
• Explanation of Melisandre's origin (how old is she really, how/why she maintains her youthful glamor, etc.) and a more meaningful death for her than simply walking out and collapsing in the snow.
• Many more deaths of face characters (Brienne, Tormund, Grey Worm, etc.) That victory did not cost them nearly as much as it should have.
• Some meaningful interaction between White Walkers and Valyrian Steel/ Dragonglass wielding heroes. A lot of those characters wield legendary swords, yet they apparently made no difference. And the show spent a lot of time focused on the importance of dragonglass, yet it also seemed to be irrelevant.
• A more appropriate death for the Night King. It didn't need to be Jon prevailing in a 1 v 1 duel, but Arya teleporting behind him was too deus ex machina. Why not have Jon, Bran and Arya all cooperate with their impressive powers to bring him down? The NK was built up as the Supreme Baddie for 70 hours of screen time, and his death was really anti-climactic.

As someone who didn't read the books and who doesn't get overly emotional about tv show plot details, I found that scene to be pretty great. For me, it was more about this great army of Dothraki men getting wiped out in a matter of seconds just a short while after Melisandre lights their swords in a brief moment of hope. The fear and discouragement in all the characters eyes after that happened set the scene, for me, that this was a losing battle and many would die.

Yes, that was obviously what they were going for. Create an impressive spectacle to start the battle (a horde with flaming arahks), only for their inspiring charge to get quickly snuffed out. It was great cinematography, and effectively created a sense of dread inevitability. But good story-telling requires a lot more than impressive visuals interspersed with a few predetermined moments of bad-assery. You've got to make the reader/ viewer feel like the characters/ actors are people in a real world; not disposable extras in video game where the protagonists have invincible plot armor. Obviously irrational plot developments, like starting a battle against an innumerable horde of zombie with a cavalry charge in pitch darkness, weakens their story.

I've thought threw this and I think it would've been more palatable with 3 changes, at least to us knuckledragging show onlys:

1. You can't have so many main characters escape death when they start on the front lines. Jamie, Brienne, Mr Giantsbane, Podrick, etc should've found been slowly cornered into a room with only a narrow passage way so they could at least have a reason for still existing.

2. The trebuchets should've been firing consistently. I guess the charge was supposed to really be a bravado - "against the plan" moment but damn it, i wanted to see more hurling balls of fire.

3. Tyrion should've had at least one, maybe two clever ploys to decimate the army so it wasn't so lopsided. I know they wanted us to lose hope but it got to the point where watching the last 15 or so minutes was grueling. They could've had Arya kill the NK about 10 mins earlier and spent the remaining episode with the emotional fallout of all the lost soliders - wailing/gnashing of teeth and the subsequent human inventory would've been a value-added move.

That would've made it more believable and complete to me.

That would have definitely improved the episode. And I truly don't mean to disparage shownlies. They just have totally different expectations from GRRM's fans. Might be better to separate out posts like mine and greyhammer's into a separate thread since it seems to be interfering with the ability of some to just enjoy the show for what it is here.

 

[Henges24]

As someone who didn't read the books and who doesn't get overly emotional about tv show plot details, I found that scene to be pretty great. For me, it was more about this great army of Dothraki men getting wiped out in a matter of seconds just a short while after Melisandre lights their swords in a brief moment of hope. The fear and discouragement in all the characters eyes after that happened set the scene, for me, that this was a losing battle and many would die.

Great post and exactly how I viewed it. My heart dropped watching the lights flicker away and it really set the scene and it didn't stop beating irregularly for about 30 minutes after that.

Not a book reader (have read the 1st book) so I didn't see really any negatives towards how everything turned out. Just sat back and enjoyed the greatest 80 minutes of TV history.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Here's a reddit post with a brief outline of all the obvious strategic blunders included in S8E3. GRRM knows enough about medieval history that you never stop and say, "Why the fuck would they do that?" when reading the books. Makes it difficult to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the scene. Other things that would have helped:

• Some revelation, probably through Bran, regarding the why and the how behind the White Walkers.
• Explanation of Melisandre's origin (how old is she really, how/why she maintains her youthful glamor, etc.) and a more meaningful death for her than simply walking out and collapsing in the snow.
• Many more deaths of face characters (Brienne, Tormund, Grey Worm, etc.) That victory did not cost them nearly as much as it should have.
• Some meaningful interaction between White Walkers and Valyrian Steel/ Dragonglass wielding heroes. A lot of those characters wield legendary swords, yet they apparently made no difference. And the show spent a lot of time focused on the importance of dragonglass, yet it also seemed to be irrelevant.
• A more appropriate death for the Night King. It didn't need to be Jon prevailing in a 1 v 1 duel, but Arya teleporting behind him was too deus ex machina. Why not have Jon, Bran and Arya all cooperate with their impressive powers to bring him down? The NK was built up as the Supreme Baddie for 70 hours of screen time, and his death was really anti-climactic.

Yes, that was obviously what they were going for. Create an impressive spectacle to start the battle (a horde with flaming arahks), only for their inspiring charge to get quickly snuffed out. It was great cinematography, and effectively created a sense of dread inevitability. But good story-telling requires a lot more than impressive visuals interspersed with a few predetermined moments of bad-assery. You've got to make the reader/ viewer feel like the characters/ actors are people in a real world; not disposable extras in video game where the protagonists have invincible plot armor. Obviously irrational plot developments, like starting a battle against an innumerable horde of zombie with a cavalry charge in pitch darkness, weakens their story.



That would have definitely improved the episode. And I truly don't mean to disparage shownlies. They just have totally different expectations from GRRM's fans. Might be better to separate out posts like mine and greyhammer's into a separate thread since it seems to be interfering with the ability of some to just enjoy the show for what it is here.

I don't disagree with this. I cam on here and said I mostly enjoyed the episode but after a 2nd viewing, it did play a bit hollow and I don't think it was because the power of suggestion was so strong. It was missing something or perhaps many small things. it was a good episode but I don't disagree with some of the complaints.

I'm still really excited about the next 3 episodes. I guess next weeks has to be entirely about the set-up/March to king's landing. Go to black when they are knocking on the door.

 

[ACamp1900]

Out of curiosity I watched a clip of the beginning of the battle (dothraki charge, sword lighting, one off volley)... and yikes... You can totally see it.
"It would be really cool to have a visual where the lead charge goes off into the night and just vanishes"....
"Even better bro, lets have them all have lamps or torches or something and have THOSE go out..."...
"Flame swords bro... flame. swords. ... lets make it happen."
Then they just concocted the entire scene around it, logical or not...

 

[calvegas04]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_3M0Xt97aFI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bishop2b5]

Out of curiosity I watched a clip of the beginning of the battle (dothraki charge, sword lighting, one off volley)... and yikes... You can totally see it.
"It would be really cool to have a visual where the lead charge goes off into the night and just vanishes"....
"Even better bro, lets have them all have lamps or torches or something and have THOSE go out..."...
"Flame swords bro... flame. swords. ... lets make it happen."
Then they just concocted the entire scene around it, logical or not...

And that seems to be pretty much how the entire episode was written and what we've all been complaining about. Half the stuff in this week's episode was out of character, made no sense, seemed completely contrived, or was way too cartoonishly "cool looking" without being true to the story. I wasn't sure if I was watching GOT or an action adventure cartoon aimed at pre-adolescent boys. Damned insulting and disappointing to the intelligent adults who've waited 8 years for this.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

S8E3 is currently the 2nd lowest rated episode of the entire series on Rotten Tomatoes.

The only episode with a lower rating is S5E6, which prominently featured the Sand Snakes and ended with Ramsay raping Sansa.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

S8E3 is currently the 2nd lowest rated episode of the entire series on Rotten Tomatoes.

The only episode with a lower rating is S5E6, which prominently featured the Sand Snakes and ended with Ramsay raping Sansa.

That episode was revulsive and the sand snakes were the worst characters I've seen in modern drama.

 

[BeauBenken]

I think you just unintentionally perfectly explained the difference between GRRM and D&D.

GRRM writes: The Dothraki fearsome people who have never been defeated in an open field because they are master strategists and warriors that use their mobility and skill on horseback to take out armies that are slower and less flexible.

D&D: Well, we've established that the Dothraki are tribal horseback fighters, so they should charge.

Yeah, honestly thinking about it, the Dothraki should have been the optimal troops for this battle. Quick strikes from the side that sweep through and cut down mass enemies who are marching/charging straight forward.


But then the Dothraki do the exact worst thing they could do.

 

[pumpdog20]

I liked the episode.

 

[Irish YJ]

That episode was revulsive and the sand snakes were the worst characters I've seen in modern drama.

that one sand snake was hot though.
i secretly hope Bronn finds her, sings songs, and enjoys that bad pXXXy

 

[zelezo vlk]

Found this nugget in another thread on reddit:

EW interviewed Benioff in a recent issue, and he had this to say about the finale: "I plan to be very drunk, and very far from the internet."

Oh. Oh no.

 

[Irishnuke]

I'm really glad I didn't read the books so I wouldn't be a total cunt in this thread.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm really glad I didn't read the books so I wouldn't be a total cunt in this thread.

This

You should have signed your post.

"The Hound"

 

[GATTACA!]

I'm really glad I didn't read the books so I wouldn't be a total cunt in this thread.

Do you really have to have read the books to not enjoy that ending? That was horribly written regardless of the source material.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I'm really glad I didn't read the books so I wouldn't be a total cunt in this thread.

Regarding the books...

 

[pumpdog20]

How about an ending where Dany defeats Cersi, starts walking towards the iron and gets taken out by Sam?

 

[NDRock]

Do you really have to have read the books to not enjoy that ending? That was horribly written regardless of the source material.

After reading comments here and elsewhere I can't imagine an ending that would not have annoyed a significant portion of people.