Canceled | Wake Forest

[NewEnglandGuy]

It was the only way to bend over for Clemson and save face. Honestly, I'll take it.

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Agreed.

You know if they would've played all 11 games and after Syracuse, ND was sitting at 10 games, there would've been pressure to keep the Wake game - giving Clemson an extra week to prep.

Overall sucks there was appeasement, but it is a net positive for ND. At least the schedule is fair now. Especially with the recent OL injuries, putting the best foot forward against Clemson is most important.

As a footnote:
FSU backing out of Clemson, then Virginia, and Duke deserves at least a big L to Wake. Some of their beat writers were openly hoping to fill in with OOC FCS teams or some other over matched opponent so they could end the season with a positive narrative and build momentum against ND in opener 2021. The mercy of the ACC saving them from a 40 point blowout embarrassment to Clemson shouldn't be forgotten by anyone, namely recruits, anytime soon.

 

[ulukinatme]

really? I never would have expected the ACC to look out for ND's interest. Maybe they want us to join up. Is this a possibility?

Has this year moved the ND fanbase at all re joining the ACC?

You know damn well if we wanted in they'd take us in a heartbeat.

The ACC certainly would give us a clearer path to the playoff each year. Right now we really just have to step over Clemson to get there and try not to trip up against the rest of the ACC...and in some years we may even get in with them depending on what the rest of the field looks like. Playoff aside there's other benefits to joining, like playing for a Conference Championship, shared revenue, recruiting ties in FL/GA, etc.

ACC really wants us to join as a full member. It's not only in their best interest for a strong conference to avoid future realignment concerns, but it means lots of money for them.

That said I'm not sold on giving up independence, but I can see why there's a number of good reasons to join that we previously didn't have available to us.

 

[tadman95]

Miami joined = went to hell

Fla State joined = went to hell

Notre Dame = stay independent

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Miami joined = went to hell

Fla State joined = went to hell

Notre Dame = stay independent

We're capable of getting to hell on our own, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Irish YJ]

The ACC certainly would give us a clearer path to the playoff each year. Right now we really just have to step over Clemson to get there and try not to trip up against the rest of the ACC...and in some years we may even get in with them depending on what the rest of the field looks like. Playoff aside there's other benefits to joining, like playing for a Conference Championship, shared revenue, recruiting ties in FL/GA, etc.

ACC really wants us to join as a full member. It's not only in their best interest for a strong conference to avoid future realignment concerns, but it means lots of money for them.

That said I'm not sold on giving up independence, but I can see why there's a number of good reasons to join that we previously didn't have available to us.

I'm not sold either, but I'm not totally opposed either.

Being in the Coastal with Miami would be cool IMO. Then add someone to the Atlantic from the AAC like Cinci, USF, Memphis, Navy, SMU, etc., and the ACC would be pretty tight.

There's enough chumps in the ACC not to be brutal, and we could rotate USC/Stanford, or just drop Stanford.

 

[Legacy]

Any further schedule disruptions aside, Wake will now play eight conference games. ND, Clemson, Va and FSU will play nine. The rest will play ten.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Miami joined = went to hell

Fla State joined = went to hell

Notre Dame = stay independent

To be fair, FSU won all 3* of their national titles while members of the ACC. Current dysfunction aside, it's been pretty good for them.

* Accounting for 1 title given by the Bobby Bowden Lifetime Achievement Committee

 

[tadman95]

Miami and Florida State joining the conference was suppose to bring the ACC into football relevance. Instead, time wore them down. Save Clemson the last four years, its still pretty irrelevant.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I'm not sold either, but I'm not totally opposed either.



Being in the Coastal with Miami would be cool IMO. Then add someone to the Atlantic from the AAC like Cinci, USF, Memphis, Navy, SMU, etc., and the ACC would be pretty tight.



There's enough chumps in the ACC not to be brutal, and we could rotate USC/Stanford, or just drop Stanford.

Being in the coastal and alternating the last game of the year being in Miami or LA vs USC isn't the worst consolation prize.

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[Irish YJ]

Being in the coastal and alternating the last game of the year being in Miami or LA vs USC isn't the worst consolation prize.

Yup. Personally, regardless of team or date, I'd love to have a game in FL every other year. Just great for recruiting, and good to travel. Give me as many games in TX, GA, FL, etc. as possible.

 

[IrishLax]

I want to join the ACC. After this year, I see virtually no downside and a ton of upside.

 

[GATTACA!]

I want to join the ACC. After this year, I see virtually no downside and a ton of upside.

Blasphemy

 

[Ndaccountant]

I want to join the ACC. After this year, I see virtually no downside and a ton of upside.

I think there is significant downside. There is not 1 consistent top 15 program in the ACC aside from Clemson. In the years where Clemson is absent from the schedule, there would be significant risk that ND would have 0 top 15 wins in conference heading into a conference championship game. That leaves the 4 non-conference games to try and get at least one or two feathers in your cap to impress the committee. Otherwise, it's win or bust in the CC game. Now, if ND would go out and schedule home/home with teams we know will be top 10, then okay. But that wouldn't happen. ND would use the 4 games to keep rivalries alive. You would have USC / Navy / Stanford / Random Big 10 team each year. We would essentially be hitching our "big OOC win" to teams that also have 0 consistency. At least today, we have the law of averages to help us. I just think ND would risk being cast aside if/when they are a 12-1 conf runner up for the likes of SEC #2 or Big 10 #2, based on the brands of the other conferences or schools.

 

[phillyirish]

I want to join the ACC. After this year, I see virtually no downside and a ton of upside.

The only downside would be giving up our old traditional rivalries. There’s no way to keep USC, Stanford and Navy every year while committing to a 8-9 game conference schedule. USC would be the most logical one to keep. Might seem brutal having such potentially strong yearly out of conference opponent, but hey USC has been doing it for decades with us, so why not? Honestly, Stanford could be dropped and I don’t think anyone would care. Pretty sure Brian Kelly has gone on record that dropping Navy is a deal breaker. Maybe ND could get Navy in the ACC as a package deal, and that could be considered debt repaid? Or if we were in the same division we’d play every year anyway. You don’t want to stack your schedule against yourself, unlike back in the Holts era and earlier when a strong schedule was necessary to win the national championship.

One thing Clemson has benefiting it that’s almost unique, is that they aren’t handicapped each year with a strong rivalry game. South Carolina is their main rival and they are a very average program. It’s actually USCe greatest run in school history, three 11-2 seasons from 2011-2013 (all wins over Clemson), that may have actually delayed the rise of Clemson by a few years. Outside of that run, USCe has won 10 games a grand total of 1 time in school history.

I think there is significant downside. There is not 1 consistent top 15 program in the ACC aside from Clemson. In the years where Clemson is absent from the schedule, there would be significant risk that ND would have 0 top 15 wins in conference heading into a conference championship game. That leaves the 4 non-conference games to try and get at least one or two feathers in your cap to impress the committee. Otherwise, it's win or bust in the CC game. Now, if ND would go out and schedule home/home with teams we know will be top 10, then okay. But that wouldn't happen. ND would use the 4 games to keep rivalries alive. You would have USC / Navy / Stanford / Random Big 10 team each year. We would essentially be hitching our "big OOC win" to teams that also have 0 consistency. At least today, we have the law of averages to help us. I just think ND would risk being cast aside if/when they are a 12-1 conf runner up for the likes of SEC #2 or Big 10 #2, based on the brands of the other conferences or schools.

This is not an issue at all in today’s playoff environment. Last year, Clemson made it to the finals and had 0 regular season wins against teams that finished ranked. They did best #12 Texas AM in week 2, but the aggies would finish I ranked at 8-5. Their conference championship game was against #22 Virginia would fall out of the polls after losing. The year before that the only teams that would finished rank were Syracuse and Texas am, they would cap their season against a 7-5 divisional champ Pitt and then go on to win the title. The ACC has proven that’s its suited to put out a Title contender for the entire past decade with FSU and then Clemson in the running every year. In fact, Clemson would stand to suffer the most from ND joint the conference by having a steady program to contend with annually.

 

[Irish YJ]

I want to join the ACC. After this year, I see virtually no downside and a ton of upside.

I'd be fine with that.

Add Navy to the Atlantic, drop Stanford. Easy.

 

[Ndaccountant]

The only downside would be giving up our old traditional rivalries. There’s no way to keep USC, Stanford and Navy every year while committing to a 8-9 game conference schedule. USC would be the most logical one to keep. Might seem brutal having such potentially strong yearly out of conference opponent, but hey USC has been doing it for decades with us, so why not? Honestly, Stanford could be dropped and I don’t think anyone would care. Pretty sure Brian Kelly has gone on record that dropping Navy is a deal breaker. Maybe ND could get Navy in the ACC as a package deal, and that could be considered debt repaid? Or if we were in the same division we’d play every year anyway. You don’t want to stack your schedule against yourself, unlike back in the Holts era and earlier when a strong schedule was necessary to win the national championship.

One thing Clemson has benefiting it that’s almost unique, is that they aren’t handicapped each year with a strong rivalry game. South Carolina is their main rival and they are a very average program. It’s actually USCe greatest run in school history, three 11-2 seasons from 2011-2013 (all wins over Clemson), that may have actually delayed the rise of Clemson by a few years. Outside of that run, USCe has won 10 games a grand total of 1 time in school history.



This is not an issue at all in today’s playoff environment. Last year, Clemson made it to the finals and had 0 regular season wins against teams that finished ranked. They did best #12 Texas AM in week 2, but the aggies would finish I ranked at 8-5. Their conference championship game was against #22 Virginia would fall out of the polls after losing. The year before that the only teams that would finished rank were Syracuse and Texas am, they would cap their season against a 7-5 divisional champ Pitt and then go on to win the title. The ACC has proven that’s its suited to put out a Title contender for the entire past decade with FSU and then Clemson in the running every year. In fact, Clemson would stand to suffer the most from ND joint the conference by having a steady program to contend with annually.

Clemson also was undefeated and was slated at #3. So, undefeated or bust? How is that different than today?

Clemson has also earned that benefit of the doubt. That isn't supposed to matter, but it does. Look at OSU this year. If you take the OSU brand off that resume and replace it with Purdue, it's not close to sniffing the top 5.

So, maybe I would reconsider the fact that the schedule would be a drawback once ND starts getting the benefit of the doubt from voters. Until that day though, I still see it as a negative.

 

[Henges24]

I'd be fine with that.

Add Navy to the Atlantic, drop Stanford. Easy.

I don’t understand the Navy love. I get that it’s tradition that ND/Navy play each other but I think it’d be time to move on if ND would join the ACC.

Injuries alone is a good enough reason to drop this game.

 

[Irish#1]

Joining a conference isn't going to quiet the naysayers who say we need to be in a conference. Join the ACC and they'll just say with the exception of Clemson, the ACC is weak. Haters gonna hate.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I don’t understand the Navy love. I get that it’s tradition that ND/Navy play each other but I think it’d be time to move on if ND would join the ACC.

Injuries alone is a good enough reason to drop this game.

If Navy joins the ACC then they can injure the other teams too.

 

[notredomer23]

I’d be down to join ACC if the out of conference schedule featured 2 cupcakes, a rotation of USC and Stanford every other year, and one random OOC game from a power 5. All that changes essentially is no Navy, not one of USC or Stanford every year, and 1 other power 5 match up. That allows ND to still have a national footprint with a strong OOC schedule while also having the ease of the ACC most years outside of Clemson.

 

[stpeteirish]

Joining a conference isn't going to quiet the naysayers who say we need to be in a conference. Join the ACC and they'll just say with the exception of Clemson, the ACC is weak. Haters gonna hate.

Yeah but...they are still a power five conference with a seat at the CFP table. They are at least as strong as the B12 and P12 now, without ND. Better to be in the middle of the P5 than the toughest or easiest IMO.

I'm torn. But I'd like to see how recruiting and attendance would be effected before taking the leap, and how can you know?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

If it means going into a conference championship game undefeated every year then lets do it.

 

[IrishLax]

The only downside would be giving up our old traditional rivalries. There’s no way to keep USC, Stanford and Navy every year while committing to a 8-9 game conference schedule. USC would be the most logical one to keep. Might seem brutal having such potentially strong yearly out of conference opponent, but hey USC has been doing it for decades with us, so why not? Honestly, Stanford could be dropped and I don’t think anyone would care. Pretty sure Brian Kelly has gone on record that dropping Navy is a deal breaker. Maybe ND could get Navy in the ACC as a package deal, and that could be considered debt repaid? Or if we were in the same division we’d play every year anyway. You don’t want to stack your schedule against yourself, unlike back in the Holts era and earlier when a strong schedule was necessary to win the national championship.

One thing Clemson has benefiting it that’s almost unique, is that they aren’t handicapped each year with a strong rivalry game. South Carolina is their main rival and they are a very average program. It’s actually USCe greatest run in school history, three 11-2 seasons from 2011-2013 (all wins over Clemson), that may have actually delayed the rise of Clemson by a few years. Outside of that run, USCe has won 10 games a grand total of 1 time in school history.

Philly, how would you rate your desire to keep those rivalries on a scale of 1 to 10?

For me, USC is a 10. Navy is a 3. Stanford is a negative eleventy billion... I actively want to drop them.

If we could set up our ACC agreement to be in the new “ACC North” where we play BC every year I’d consider that a positive trade off for dropping Stanford. I think you could play Navy as one of your OOC games if the ACC schedule was 8 games. The scheduling crunch comes in if the ACC schedule was made 9 games for some reason.

 

[irish4ever]

I’d be down to join ACC if the out of conference schedule featured 2 cupcakes, a rotation of USC and Stanford every other year, and one random OOC game from a power 5. All that changes essentially is no Navy, not one of USC or Stanford every year, and 1 other power 5 match up. That allows ND to still have a national footprint with a strong OOC schedule while also having the ease of the ACC most years outside of Clemson.

I'd be in favor of this, but I'd keep U$C as an annual opponent (love wuppin' their ass) and drop Stanford. Stanford can be added every so often as the one random game from a power 5 conf. I'd also like to see ND drop the Navy game from an annual basis ... play them every so often at most OR at least until their 'chop blocking' scheme is no longer allowed.

 

[notredomer23]

I'd be in favor of this, but I'd keep U$C as an annual opponent (love wuppin' their ass) and drop Stanford. Stanford can be added every so often as the one random game from a power 5 conf. I'd also like to see ND drop the Navy game from an annual basis ... play them every so often at most OR at least until their 'chop blocking' scheme is no longer allowed.

This is a good point. I don't care about the Stanford game at all, just included them for that national footprint aspect, which is taken care of really if it's just USC every year. I know the board is fairly split over playing Navy, but it's a pointless game and no good comes from it. It's not a rivalry. Even when ND wins they still lose because of injury. And in the event they lose, it's an embarrassment.

An example schedule of:

Central Michigan
USC
USF
Iowa
FSU
Pitt
BC
UNC
Wake
UVA
VT
Syracuse

Clemson in ACC title game.

Joining a conference gives ND the flexibility to lose a game and still make the playoff literally every year if they win the conference title, or even lose it if they have perfect regular season. As an independent, some years that may still happen. But for example in 2019 if ND ended up beating one of UGA or UM, they likely would have been left out still.

 

[phillyirish]

Philly, how would you rate your desire to keep those rivalries on a scale of 1 to 10?

For me, USC is a 10. Navy is a 3. Stanford is a negative eleventy billion... I actively want to drop them.

If we could set up our ACC agreement to be in the new “ACC North” where we play BC every year I’d consider that a positive trade off for dropping Stanford. I think you could play Navy as one of your OOC games if the ACC schedule was 8 games. The scheduling crunch comes in if the ACC schedule was made 9 games for some reason.

I pretty much agree. I wouldn’t say Stanford is a negative, but just looking it up, we didn’t start playing them annually until 1988 so it’s really not to traditional. BC and even Pitt are bigger historical rivals then them. USC is a must. I honestly think that rivalry would increase in prestige if we were also in a conference then it would be a true intersectional rivalry that no other programs can compare to.

I’d like to keep the USC game as the 12 and final game every year if possible with conference schedules. There is so much history of us knocking each other off on the last week of the season. Also, I’d like to turn the tables on them and make them come to South Bend in late November every other year.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

We would still want to be able to recruit out in California I think so a west coast team is a must. If I have my choice I would keep USC home and home each year. We could rotate in Stanford every few years.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Independence until it's no longer feasible, that's my vote

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

How would Shamrock Series work in an ACC alignment?

 

[zelezo vlk]

How would Shamrock Series work in an ACC alignment?

It's kind of dead right now anyways.