2019 Spring Practice Thread

[FightingIrishLover7]

That Ishaq to Ewell comparison is pretty sad. Not even remotely comparable.

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[Old Man Mike]

Ishaq "failed" in my opinion because of bad DC scheme as far as his positioning was concerned. Playing in space? Really? Ishaq should have been at a rush end essentially all the time. I was head-shaking continuously watching him trying to play out=of-position almost all his career.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Ishaq "failed" in my opinion because of bad DC scheme as far as his positioning was concerned. Playing in space? Really? Ishaq should have been at a rush end essentially all the time. I was head-shaking continuously watching him trying to play out=of-position almost all his career.

Ishaq was the CAT in Diaco's scheme which is essentially a rush end. That's basically most of what Prince Shembo did in '12 and '13. He struggled at the DOG position, because that position is required to play a ton in space. CAT, not so much, which is why Shembo thrived after switching. Ishaq was always a CAT and yet never made the jump.

I don't think we ever saw Ishaq show signs of being a consistent and quality pass rusher at that level. He would flash, but flashing only goes so far. You have to be able to provide more than just an inconsistent pass rush.

It's no different than the DROP is in Lea's system, except they play on the line a bit more, but the CAT lined up on the line quite a bit under Diaco.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'll bow to your better knowledge, but my old memory sees Ishaq standing up nearly every play and often not rushing.

 

[Luckylucci]

Upsetting to hear about Allen and Ewell.

Ewell reminds me of Ishaq Williams, both highly recruited, but they couldn't pan out at playing the level of college football at ND.

As far as Allen, anything I've read about him is that he's one of the players that need to have an important spring. Seems to me that it is coming down to a make it or brake it spring. If he doesn't make it, I wonder if he'd transfer? I was surprised that Allen couldn't find his way onto special teams last year. Hoping for the best for Allen is at ND.

It’s Allen’s first Spring practice, ever, at ND. And it’s a make it or break it Spring? I’ll save that statement for after the kid has been on campus for at least 1 year, lol.

Also, it sounds like with all the work he’s getting he’s been improving. Pretty unuimous from those that watched Saturday’s practice.

 

[BobbyMac]

It’s Allen’s first Spring practice, ever, at ND. And it’s a make it or break it Spring? I’ll save that statement for after the kid has been on campus for at least 1 year, lol.

Also, it sounds like with all the work he’s getting he’s been improving. Pretty unuimous from those that watched Saturday’s practice.

Yeah, I'm here with you.

The staff is trying to keep him at safety for a reason. Will his genetics cooperate? I was quick to call him a potential Rover 2 years ago but I hope he can stay at Stud if possible.

He has a unique resume and physical package that can't be ignored. Hopefully it all comes together for him at the right time.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

One concern I have is the lack of development at the DB position an area where we recruiting well the last two years yet we aren’t really hearing about anyone jumping out. Hopefully some freshman make some
Noise once they get on campus

 

[Irish Man3]

One concern I have is the lack of development at the DB position an area where we recruiting well the last two years yet we aren’t really hearing about anyone jumping out. Hopefully some freshman make some
Noise once they get on campus

Lack of development? Bracy is banged up and Griffin is playing a new position this spring. They're also going against the most talented position group on the team. Finke, Claypool, Austin, Keys, and Kmet have been great.

The staff has developed Love (3*) into an AA. Troy Pride (3*) took a huge step up last year and according to reports this spring, has been great.

At safety, Elliott (3*) has improved dramatically since stepping foot on campus. Gilman (3*) is banged up this spring but is a leader and played really well last year.

What exactly are you looking for?

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Lack of development? Bracy is banged up and Griffin is playing a new position this spring. They're also going against the most talented position group on the team. Finke, Claypool, Austin, Keys, and Kmet have been great.

The staff has developed Love (3*) into an AA. Troy Pride (3*) took a huge step up last year and according to reports this spring, has been great.

At safety, Elliott (3*) has improved dramatically since stepping foot on campus. Gilman (3*) is banged up this spring but is a leader and played really well last year.

What exactly are you looking for?

Mercy is Koon on pixie sticks. You'd be better off going outside and yelling at the clouds than asking for clarity on one of his posts.

 

[irishandy]

Also, it sounds like with all the work he’s getting he’s been improving. Pretty unuimous from those that watched Saturday’s practice.

I agree, anything I've read locally seems to me like it is improving. Just hoping that he can put it together and he get's some PT.

 

[JD Irish]

Both starting safeties are moving on after this year. It will be extremely important to comfortably beat some of the lesser teams on our schedule to get the backups some playing time so as to not repeat the situation that is happening now at linebacker.

 

[Crazy Balki]

One concern I have is the lack of development at the DB position an area where we recruiting well the last two years yet we aren’t really hearing about anyone jumping out. Hopefully some freshman make some
Noise once they get on campus

Disagree. There's been some struggles, but there have been plenty of DB's that have shown improvement or stood out.

DJ Brown has been mentioned a few times since switching to safety. Davis has transitioned almost seamlessly to nickel and has looked good for the most part. Griffith is doing well replacing Love. Pride appears to have taken another step forward. Bracy looked good until the injury.

The only guy I can think of that has reported to be consistently struggling is Allen, and like Lucci mentioned, he's only been in the program for about 9 months and this is his first spring and first real taste of legit action.

I'm FAR more concerned with linebacker, where other than maybe Lamb and JOK, there doesn't appear to be anybody standing out and tackling/assignments have been an issue. No mention of Genmark-Heath has been concerning to me. Thought he would be the #1 guy at Buck.

 

[IrishLion]

Ishaq "failed" in my opinion because of bad DC scheme as far as his positioning was concerned. Playing in space? Really? Ishaq should have been at a rush end essentially all the time. I was head-shaking continuously watching him trying to play out=of-position almost all his career.

Ishaq was the CAT in Diaco's scheme which is essentially a rush end. That's basically most of what Prince Shembo did in '12 and '13. He struggled at the DOG position, because that position is required to play a ton in space. CAT, not so much, which is why Shembo thrived after switching. Ishaq was always a CAT and yet never made the jump.

I don't think we ever saw Ishaq show signs of being a consistent and quality pass rusher at that level. He would flash, but flashing only goes so far. You have to be able to provide more than just an inconsistent pass rush.

It's no different than the DROP is in Lea's system, except they play on the line a bit more, but the CAT lined up on the line quite a bit under Diaco.

I'll bow to your better knowledge, but my old memory sees Ishaq standing up nearly every play and often not rushing.

No, you had it right, OMM.

Ishaq started as a DOG in Diaco's system. It was a bad decision, but Diaco wanted his five-star player on the field to clog throwing lanes and to occasionally rush the passer.

Most of the early reviews were "Ishaq moves pretty well in space, but he's not really suited to be a linebacker like that. He should be rushing the passer."

By the time anyone realized it wasn't working and they finally just let him play some CAT, and then as a true DE with his hand on the ground after that, he flashed like Balki said, but it was too late to salvage his full potential at that point.



Unrelated: I'm gonna ban the next person that tries to have a meltdown over a sophomore's development.

 

[zelezo vlk]

No, you had it right, OMM.

Ishaq started as a DOG in Diaco's system. It was a bad decision, but Diaco wanted his five-star player on the field to clog throwing lanes and to occasionally rush the passer.

Most of the early reviews were "Ishaq moves pretty well in space, but he's not really suited to be a linebacker like that. He should be rushing the passer."

By the time anyone realized it wasn't working and they finally just let him play some CAT, and then as a true DE with his hand on the ground after that, he flashed like Balki said, but it was too late to salvage his full potential at that point.



Unrelated: I'm gonna ban the next person that tries to have a meltdown over a sophomore's development.

If Josh Lugg isn't ready to play, Quinn should be fired right now. Hell, let a GA coach the OL!

 

[fightingirish26]

Shit, I'm just over here wondering why Kyren hasn't emerged as a starter yet. Come on, Lance...

 

[dublinirish]

Disagree. There's been some struggles, but there have been plenty of DB's that have shown improvement or stood out.

DJ Brown has been mentioned a few times since switching to safety. Davis has transitioned almost seamlessly to nickel and has looked good for the most part. Griffith is doing well replacing Love. Pride appears to have taken another step forward. Bracy looked good until the injury.

The only guy I can think of that has reported to be consistently struggling is Allen, and like Lucci mentioned, he's only been in the program for about 9 months and this is his first spring and first real taste of legit action.

I'm FAR more concerned with linebacker, where other than maybe Lamb and JOK, there doesn't appear to be anybody standing out and tackling/assignments have been an issue. No mention of Genmark-Heath has been concerning to me. Thought he would be the #1 guy at Buck.

Shayne Simon is more puzzling to me. He was recruited specifically to play Rover, Then basically was the guy in waiting for all of 2018 and expected to walk into the starting role in 2019 but the word is now he isn't physical enough and is likely lost in the shuffle

 

[NDisme]

I mean if Bilal could play River last season, Simon can’t be any worse I wouldn’t think.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Feel like orthopedic surgeons are going to make a killing from all of this knee-jerking going on.

Spring ball is a peaceful time for me. Low expectations. A lot of these guys are entering their first full spring, or at the very least, are entering their first spring with elevated expectations/higher responsibility competing for a starting position. The open practices and the scrimmage themselves are all watered down schematically anyways, so I'll trust the staff and take whatever the pundits are writing with a grain of salt. Offseason blues and the associated headlines tend to affect some more than others.

I'll start to sweat this more if we get to mid-August and we still don't have a clear rotation in place at LB. The staff knows what they are doing and they're just plugging and playing right now trying to get an idea.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

I trust this staff. Maybe 3 years ago I would panic at the mere mention that a highly rated guy isn't getting it. But this new staff has identified talent and found a way to get the very best from most of them, even the lower 3 star guys. I think Clark will have a good linebacker group by August. Maybe not like last year due to inexperience but productive.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Shayne Simon is more puzzling to me. He was recruited specifically to play Rover, Then basically was the guy in waiting for all of 2018 and expected to walk into the starting role in 2019 but the word is now he isn't physical enough and is likely lost in the shuffle

I don't think that was ever the case. Simon could play the Rover, but I think it was very likely that he would end up moving inside because he was going to outgrow the position.

Simon is already 6'3 230 and I doubt he's done growing.

In addition, having Jeremiah Owusu ready at Rover and the need for competition inside, it just made sense.

It's going to be rough in Spring, but I'm confident Lea will have the group figured out in the fall.

 

[snoopdog]

I think the 2019 LB crew is going to be very similar to the 2018 O-line.

Lots of talented bodies playing together for the first time.

There will be some obvious development issues...claims that Clark Lea just can't coach...and predictions of a apocalypse.

But when the season is done....it will all be ok.

 

[BobbyMac]

Told you guys a long time ago, Shane Simon is going to be an ILB. JOK is the prototype, not a 230lb RS Freshman with no clock.

Will admit, I thought I was going to have to eat a lil bit of crow if they had to play him at Rover this year before moving him inside in '20. He'll still get some back up reps at Rover when JOK needs a breather. But if Moala masters the position or if Kiser comes off the IR swinging, he may not.

FYI, there isn't a bigger ND LB than him at 6-3/230.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Everyone seems to still be super high on JOKs athleticism. I sincerely hope he can learn to play assignment sound football because he has the makings of a hugely impactful player.

 

[Luckylucci]

No, you had it right, OMM.

Ishaq started as a DOG in Diaco's system. It was a bad decision, but Diaco wanted his five-star player on the field to clog throwing lanes and to occasionally rush the passer.

Most of the early reviews were "Ishaq moves pretty well in space, but he's not really suited to be a linebacker like that. He should be rushing the passer."

By the time anyone realized it wasn't working and they finally just let him play some CAT, and then as a true DE with his hand on the ground after that, he flashed like Balki said, but it was too late to salvage his full potential at that point.



Unrelated: I'm gonna ban the next person that tries to have a meltdown over a sophomore's development.

To be honest I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Ishaq almost exclusively practiced as Shembo's backup at CAT (as well as on every depth chart I've ever seen), Shembo just rarely came off the field and Ishaq never even remotely pushed him at CAT. So there would be game plan specific things Diaco did to get Ishaq involved like at UM in 2013. Or he'd pull the Dog and replace that player with Ishaq in certain packages (ala Denver with Miller/Ware) but never worked like that, lol. And this would require Ishaq to be in coverage for some of those snaps (probably why folks remember it that way). He was set to become a true DE in 2014 when BVG was hired but then was suspended due to academics.

In 2011 it was Fleming/Ishaq at Cat and Shembo/Niklas at Drop. In 2012, it was Spond/Councell at Drop and Shembo/Ishaq at CAT. In 2013 it was Spond/Jaylon at Dog (Spond retired in August, prior to the season) with Shembo/Ishaq at Cat.

Here is a link to UND.com's official depth charts. The archives have all the depth charts from previous seasons.

https://und.com/documents/2013/1/3/_nd_m_footbl_2012_13_depth_chart_event__depth_chart.pdf

 

[Irish#1]

Pretty sure everyone on D is struggling due to the fact that Lea is implementing BVG's defense.

 

[Luckylucci]

Everyone seems to still be super high on JOKs athleticism. I sincerely hope he can learn to play assignment sound football because he has the makings of a hugely impactful player.

Something that the guys at ISD have brought up and I think it's very plausible this could be the case. The LB unit overall will not be as good as last year but it doesn't have to mean they won't be in all areas. More blown assignments than we've become accustomed to, most likely. However, there is a chance that with better athletes we could see more big plays/negative plays created.

Consider this, both Coney (9.5 TFL's) and Tranquill (9 TFL's) had less TFL's in 18' than they did 17'. For Tranquill it was partially due to a position switch. However, Asmar (3 TFL's) didn't pick up the slack in the department as the starting Rover. In fact, the group as a whole had less in 18' than 17' even though overall play seemed better. In 2018, 21.5 TFL's from your starting LB's (who didn't concede many snaps all year, isn't all that great). So, we very well may see the overall play of the group diminish, but there could be areas where they are better/more productive. Or positions where we get better play.

 

[Irish#1]

Feel like orthopedic surgeons are going to make a killing from all of this knee-jerking going on.

Spring ball is a peaceful time for me. Low expectations. A lot of these guys are entering their first full spring, or at the very least, are entering their first spring with elevated expectations/higher responsibility competing for a starting position. The open practices and the scrimmage themselves are all watered down schematically anyways, so I'll trust the staff and take whatever the pundits are writing with a grain of salt. Offseason blues and the associated headlines tend to affect some more than others.

I'll start to sweat this more if we get to mid-August and we still don't have a clear rotation in place at LB. The staff knows what they are doing and they're just plugging and playing right now trying to get an idea.

I trust this staff. Maybe 3 years ago I would panic at the mere mention that a highly rated guy isn't getting it. But this new staff has identified talent and found a way to get the very best from most of them, even the lower 3 star guys. I think Clark will have a good linebacker group by August. Maybe not like last year due to inexperience but productive.

Agree, spring is when you test everyone to see who does what. If the staff is bringing up these issues in August, then we should keep the bottle of Maalox nearby.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Something that the guys at ISD have brought up and I think it's very plausible this could be the case. The LB unit overall will not be as good as last year but it doesn't have to mean they won't be in all areas. More blown assignments than we've become accustomed to, most likely. However, there is a chance that with better athletes we could see more big plays/negative plays created.

Consider this, both Coney (9.5 TFL's) and Tranquill (9 TFL's) had less TFL's in 18' than they did 17'. For Tranquill it was partially due to a position switch. However, Asmar (3 TFL's) didn't pick up the slack in the department as the starting Rover. In fact, the group as a whole had less in 18' than 17' even though overall play seemed better. In 2018, 21.5 TFL's from your starting LB's (who didn't concede many snaps all year, isn't all that great). So, we very well may see the overall play of the group diminish, but there could be areas where they are better/more productive. Or positions where we get better play.

It's certainly one possibility. We will have to count on disruptive/negative plays/TOs to make up for giving up the bigger yards. Hopefully our offense is firing so efficiently, we're able to give our defense room to play free/loose.

 

[ulukinatme]

No, you had it right, OMM.

Ishaq started as a DOG in Diaco's system. It was a bad decision, but Diaco wanted his five-star player on the field to clog throwing lanes and to occasionally rush the passer.

Most of the early reviews were "Ishaq moves pretty well in space, but he's not really suited to be a linebacker like that. He should be rushing the passer."

By the time anyone realized it wasn't working and they finally just let him play some CAT, and then as a true DE with his hand on the ground after that, he flashed like Balki said, but it was too late to salvage his full potential at that point.



Unrelated: I'm gonna ban the next person that tries to have a meltdown over a sophomore's development.

Agree, while Ishaq may have had his hand in the dirt occasionally, he was upright and not in a three point stance more times than not. He should have been a DE all along, but not in a 3-4. He was poised to finally live up to his potential his last year when we switched back to a 4-3 and he was to be a DE, but then he got suspended and the rest is history. Wrong place, wrong time.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

Tim Prister mentioned on the Pod today that he wouldn’t be surprised if Drew White is the starter at Mike come fall. This is a bit odd because Bilal is currently working at Mike and BK mentioned that Bilal has locked down a spot in the rotation. We’ve also heard that Lamb will be the Buck in passing downs. Makes me wonder if this will be the rotation come fall:

Starting Lineup:

Buck: Bilal
Mike: White
Rover: JOK

Passing Downs:

Buck: Lamb
Mike: Bilal
Rover: JOK