'15 NJ QB Brandon Wimbush (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[Irish#1]

I hope this doesn't come off as a scoff at the you Irish #1 for posting it, but I don't even care to read it. Every QB that struggled has articles out to give hope to the fans that they're actually fixing it.

I'm so over the hope and into the "shut up and show it" phase of my fanhood of ND.

No worries, I simply posted it. Thought it highlighted a couple of things a little differently.

I wouldn't say it's a knock on Tommy. What QB under Kelly doesn't get confidence issues and ends up mentally unstable (game wise)? It's kind of a reoccurring theme. Things are usually fine when the offense is dumbed down and simple, but when BK opens up the playbook and puts more of the offense on the QBs shoulders, most of them crack under the pressure. Kizer, Golson, Zaire, and even Tommy all played pretty well early on when BK ran the simplified offense for them, but they all experienced a "Sophomore slump" the next year when BK gave them more reigns. Some of those QBs took a nasty turn, like Golson...basically went from a 12 win season and Heisman hopeful to benched. What have each of those QBs done at some point during the offseason? Regardless of the QB coach, they've gone outside the university for training to help correct mechanics or install confidence.

Fire Kelly!


This to me is a little of the "Chicken & Egg" puzzle.

BW doesn't trust his receivers, but is that because his mechanics are off where he can't put the ball where it needs to be and at the correct time forcing the WR's to make a tougher catch than it should be? Thus the mental issues?

I don't know if working with a QB coach is going to help, but he's spending his own money, so that shows a commitment to improvement.

 

[GowerND11]

Doesn't anyone find that article ironic.

Last year the message boards fight was whether it was BW or play calling that was the issue and now it was a given it was mostly all BW.....and now that he sought out a group to work with him a dozen or so times it is all fixed.

Ummm I hope Book gets a lot of time in training camp with the first group as well.

No, the argument was, his mechanics aren't great and it's next to impossible to fix them during the season. Soooo, why is Long developing game plans asking BW to do stuff he cannot do.

 

[dublinirish]

No, the argument was, his mechanics aren't great and it's next to impossible to fix them during the season. Soooo, why is Long developing game plans asking BW to do stuff he cannot do.

throwing 5 yard out's to TE's?

 

[snoopdog]

No, the argument was, his mechanics aren't great and it's next to impossible to fix them during the season. Soooo, why is Long developing game plans asking BW to do stuff he cannot do.

No doubt that was one version of the argument....but so many people were hanging the blame completely on BK and Long's play calling.

It was somewhat similar to Joe Schmidt's last season where so many people were arguing over whether he should have been on the field or not.

I guess my point is....this issue has NOT BEEN RESOLVED

 

[condoms SUCk]

No worries, I simply posted it. Thought it highlighted a couple of things a little differently.



Fire Kelly!


This to me is a little of the "Chicken & Egg" puzzle.

BW doesn't trust his receivers, but is that because his mechanics are off where he can't put the ball where it needs to be and at the correct time forcing the WR's to make a tougher catch than it should be? Thus the mental issues?

I don't know if working with a QB coach is going to help, but he's spending his own money, so that shows a commitment to improvement.

Agreed, I liked that he is taking the initiative to get better, that shows dedication and maturity, I like that a lot.
I have NOT heard anything about him taking that same initiative with the WR's. Haven’t heard anything about him getting a few WR’s together on their own for a week or weekend, or doing any workouts after lifting. Nothing that would help to build/ strengthen that connection between BW and the WR’s.
That is what has me a little worried.
Not saying this isn’t happening behind the scenes, but haven’t seen anything on any social media or mentioned on any ND podcasts, not a pep.

 

[T Town Tommy]

If BW learned things that can make him better then I am all for it. But I usually don't buy in to the narrative that problems are solved that easily. Either way, I hope BW is successful. He doesn't need to be "the guy." He just needs to do his job more consistently.

 

[GowerND11]

No doubt that was one version of the argument....but so many people were hanging the blame completely on BK and Long's play calling.

It was somewhat similar to Joe Schmidt's last season where so many people were arguing over whether he should have been on the field or not.

I guess my point is....this issue has NOT BEEN RESOLVED

I don't think anyone was only blaming them. It was more in line of, "BW can't make the throws they are calling, so why call them? BW needs to get this stuff fixed to run the offense right, but that doesn't mean the offense can't be adjusted."

Plus we saw, when the playcalling was brilliant in a first half, he was able to get around some of his issues (See first drive against MSU), compared to not.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Made the Maxwell Watch List

https://www.maxwellfootballclub.org/2018-maxwell-watch-list/

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If he improves his passing efficiency just a little....he will be a beast! I love watching him play. Pls lose the Blu mouth guard, clear makes you appear more like a qb</p>— M J Hairball (@MJHarrington44) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJHarrington44/status/1019199953275670528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Old Man Mike]

I don't know if he CAN get to the "Trust Zone" with his receivers for several reasons:

A). I haven't heard of the "practicing together at home over the summer" phenomenon, which in my view is priceless;
B). My intuition is that some of the best on-the-field targets will turn out to be freshmen or other hidden gems, and he hasn't seen them enough;
C). Kelly thinks that his offensive schemes make the receivers great more than the other way around, and so plays a bunch of them as if they are interchangeable pieces. With a QB with great field vision and decision-making skills that's just fine, but with Wimbush?

Anyway ... hoping for the best.
But waiting to believe any of it.

 

[IrishLion]

I don't know if he CAN get to the "Trust Zone" with his receivers for several reasons:

A). I haven't heard of the "practicing together at home over the summer" phenomenon, which in my view is priceless;
B). My intuition is that some of the best on-the-field targets will turn out to be freshmen or other hidden gems, and he hasn't seen them enough;
C). Kelly thinks that his offensive schemes make the receivers great more than the other way around, and so plays a bunch of them as if they are interchangeable pieces. With a QB with great field vision and decision-making skills that's just fine, but with Wimbush?

Anyway ... hoping for the best.
But waiting to believe any of it.

I don't know if that's true over his tenure at ND. BK usually sticks with 3 primary guys, and uses 4th or 5th WR's to supplement late in games or for sub packages.

You usually only find 3 or 4 WR's with more than 10 receptions on the year.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I know that it's fairly true with the TEs and they play a bigger role in this offense than most --- whether they actually get the ball thrown to them is probably not their fault. I'll point to Koyack and Smythe who are both in the league.

As to WRs: there have been years when we've had some superstuds who we wouldn't want off the field, and that's true. But there have been seasons where Kelly tried to almost platoon certain positions --- especially slot, but elsewhere as well. Even if there were "preferred" receivers, the "other guy" is in there sometimes and that says that Kelly trusts him to get the job done correctly. When he's in there still needs to be "trust." (or clear quick "seeing.")

But this is just my opinion, and if "not trusting the receivers" has been a problem (as Wimbush has apparently said himself), then it's one of several issues related to this at least some of the time.

 

[snoopdog]

I know that it's fairly true with the TEs and they play a bigger role in this offense than most --- whether they actually get the ball thrown to them is probably not their fault. I'll point to Koyack and Smythe who are both in the league.

As to WRs: there have been years when we've had some superstuds who we wouldn't want off the field, and that's true. But there have been seasons where Kelly tried to almost platoon certain positions --- especially slot, but elsewhere as well. Even if there were "preferred" receivers, the "other guy" is in there sometimes and that says that Kelly trusts him to get the job done correctly. When he's in there still needs to be "trust." (or clear quick "seeing.")

But this is just my opinion, and if "not trusting the receivers" has been a problem (as Wimbush has apparently said himself), then it's one of several issues related to this at least some of the time.

It's more than likely just my disordered thinking, but all this talk of Claypool not being mentally into it, is just Long and BK's way of trying to take the blame off of BW and putting it on his Wr's last year.

They can blame ESB, Claypool, Canteen and that other transfer and say it's them not you BW.

It's like the comments BK has make about Boykin this spring. "Boykin, now he's the real deal, he is a go to big time receiver"....and in the Spring game, Book and Claypool light the sky on fire with their pitch and catch routine.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't know if he CAN get to the "Trust Zone" with his receivers for several reasons:

A). I haven't heard of the "practicing together at home over the summer" phenomenon, which in my view is priceless;
B). My intuition is that some of the best on-the-field targets will turn out to be freshmen or other hidden gems, and he hasn't seen them enough;
C). Kelly thinks that his offensive schemes make the receivers great more than the other way around, and so plays a bunch of them as if they are interchangeable pieces. With a QB with great field vision and decision-making skills that's just fine, but with Wimbush?

Anyway ... hoping for the best.
But waiting to believe any of it.

This is huge IMO. Manning did this regularly during the off season and several hours before every game he would go through the entire route tree with his receivers.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

This is huge IMO. Manning did this regularly during the off season and several hours before every game he would go through the entire route tree with his receivers.

Dayne Crist used to have his buddies come out to California...

(anecdotal evidence sucks)

 

[Irish#1]

Dayne Crist used to have his buddies come out to California...

(anecdotal evidence sucks)

I'll bet they had a good time tossing the ball on the beach then surfing afterwards.

 

[calvegas04]

This is huge IMO. Manning did this regularly during the off season and several hours before every game he would go through the entire route tree with his receivers.

They are all at Book's place running plays

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I’ve been a huge BW supporter and will continue to be. But the fact I read an article comparing him to Chuck Knoblauch and Mackey Sasser has me a little bit worried.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I’ve been a huge BW supporter and will continue to be. But the fact I read an article comparing him to Chuck Knoblauch and Mackey Sasser has me a little bit worried.

I hope the worry is about the author's cognitive functioning

 

[condoms SUCk]

I hope we get some true and honest assessments coming out of fall camp about BW but I'm sure it will be noting but the same ol' puff pieces.
I guess we're not really going to fine out anything until Sept 1st.

 

[dublinirish]

I hope we get some true and honest assessments coming out of fall camp about BW but I'm sure it will be noting but the same ol' puff pieces.
I guess we're not really going to fine out anything until Sept 1st.

all you will hear is " we dont know until the lights go on "

 

[NDdomer2]

well we heard about Malik being a "gamer" and not a practice guy for years and turns out he really wasnt that great at all at any time.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I hope we get some true and honest assessments coming out of fall camp about BW but I'm sure it will be noting but the same ol' puff pieces.
I guess we're not really going to fine out anything until Sept 1st.

Is it really a puff piece? If I were writing about BW thus far, it'd be that he looks improved, more poised and has crisper passing (if that's what I was seeing).

The problem is there are plenty of footballers that look great in drills and then get stunned in live action. Like they freeze up mentally. We need to see Brandon staying calm but moving intensely. Brandon was too calm last year, like he wasn't amped up, I hope that changes.

I don't need him screaming and throwing tantrums but I want to see him move with excitement and not get mentally beat down. That's the biggest question mark and we seriously won't know what we have until we get under the lights.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Puff pieces?

I remember a lot of reports that came out last August describing the offense in a negative light (Wimbush and WRs in particular)

 

[BobbyMac]

well we heard about Malik being a "gamer" and not a practice guy for years and turns out he really wasnt that great at all at any time.

Go watch Texas '15 again and start naming individual games by ND QB's that were better.

 

[Luckylucci]

Is it really a puff piece? If I were writing about BW thus far, it'd be that he looks improved, more poised and has crisper passing (if that's what I was seeing).
The problem is there are plenty of footballers that look great in drills and then get stunned in live action. Like they freeze up mentally. We need to see Brandon staying calm but moving intensely. Brandon was too calm last year, like he wasn't amped up, I hope that changes.

I don't need him screaming and throwing tantrums but I want to see him move with excitement and not get mentally beat down. That's the biggest question mark and we seriously won't know what we have until we get under the lights.

Agreed, I don't think there were a lot of puff pieces after spring practice. More of this. Improved in the areas that were an issue, more confident, etc. In fact, most of what I'm reading now is reporters saying, let's see if he can duplicate that in fall camp. Not that we have already have a Heisman on our hands.

With that said, it's not ludicrous to think, that if Wimbush can get to 60-65% comp pct. he could be extremely special. Other skills included.

 

[SoIll]

Go watch Texas '15 again and start naming individual games by ND QB's that were better.

DeShone Kizer vs Texas in 2016 lol

 

[ulukinatme]

Go watch Texas '15 again and start naming individual games by ND QB's that were better.

DeShone Kizer vs Texas in 2016 lol

 

[clashmore_mike]

Another good one from Sampson.

https://theathletic.com/438491/2018/07/23/notre-dame-brandon-wimbush-quarterback/

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

https://www.ndinsider.com/football/...cle_1f803805-6184-51bd-8416-50f62593b410.html

Good stuff here from Hanson.

"Dramatic one-year statistical spikes by college quarterbacks aren’t all that uncommon. Among the eight players who finished in the top 10 nationally in 2017 in passing efficiency who had been starters the year before, four of them improved their ranking by 47 spots or more." 3 names he mentions (obviously #3 wasn't from 2017):

1. Wake Forest’s John Wolford- Went from 107th in passing efficiency in 2016 to #10 in 2017.

2. UCF’s McKenzie Melton- Went from 103 to #2 (behind only Baker).

3. Brady Quinn- Went from outside top 100 in first year, #55 his second, and top 10 his 3rd.

For those who think it's impossible to see that leap, a leap that we'll surely need, just take a look at those names and performances from one season to the next. Optimism isn't lunacy in Wimbush's case here.