[NCAAM] vBook: Villanova vs North Carolina

BleedBlueGold

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just gonna leave this here… <a href="https://t.co/KaEAp2Xvza">https://t.co/KaEAp2Xvza</a></p>— Zach McCrite (@BigEZ) <a href="https://twitter.com/BigEZ/status/717317914773295104">April 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
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IrishLion

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Jay Wright is a cold-blooded killer.

"Bang."

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Villanova Coach Jay Wright has to be an amazing poker player <a href="https://t.co/ZwZ2QvvQDh">https://t.co/ZwZ2QvvQDh</a></p>— The Cauldron (@TheCauldron) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheCauldron/status/717197089378340864">April 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
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GoldenDome

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Great game aside from Haywood basically whining the whole second half on the broadcast.
 

irishfan

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Considering the magnitude of the game, I'd say that's probably the best college basketball game I've ever seen in my life.
 

yankeehater

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That game was pretty darn incredible!

Who would have thought that Nova would be outrebounded 36-23 and outshot from 3 64%-57% and still win.
 

NDohio

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Considering the magnitude of the game, I'd say that's probably the best college basketball game I've ever seen in my life.

That was a great finish. Awesome game - probably second only to the NCState v Houston game for me.
 

yankeehater

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That was a great finish. Awesome game - probably second only to the NCState v Houston game for me.

I agree.

The reactions from Valvano and Wright were completely opposite however when their teams won.
 
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Anyone who likes ND sports for respecting academics can't possibly want UNC to win any championship right?

Go Cats! Hell of a game

Not everyone. Diehard ND Football and UNC Hoops fan here. The way this game ended, and the way it played out from a missed opportunity/unfortunate officiating stand point, will scar me far worse than the 2012 ND vs. Alabama championship game has.
 

ACamp1900

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I tuned in during the last minute of the game, caught the ending... don't think I missed much otherwise. That's BBall for ya.
 
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I tuned in during the last minute of the game, caught the ending... don't think I missed much otherwise. That's BBall for ya.

Well, if you aren't a big basketball game I can understand your thinking. But it really was an entertaining game, lots of momentum changes back and forth.
 

ACamp1900

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Well, if you aren't a big basketball game I can understand your thinking. But it really was an entertaining game, lots of momentum changes back and forth.

Yeah just me, I can really enjoy the last minute of a tight BBall game so long as the refs don't ruin it but watching the rest of the game leading up to that point is really hard for me, just not my thing... unless ND is playing of course...
 

Irish#1

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Yeah just me, I can really enjoy the last minute of a tight BBall game so long as the refs don't ruin it but watching the rest of the game leading up to that point is really hard for me, just not my thing... unless ND is playing of course...

Tough to watch bball when you have that entertaining scripted "wrasslin" on TV. lol
 

Irish#1

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Not everyone. Diehard ND Football and UNC Hoops fan here. The way this game ended, and the way it played out from a missed opportunity/unfortunate officiating stand point, will scar me far worse than the 2012 ND vs. Alabama championship game has.

As a UNC basketball fan, how do you feel about all of the cheating that went on throughout their athletic programs? I have to believe their basketball program wouldn't be as successful if the players weren't kept eligible.
 
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As a UNC basketball fan, how do you feel about all of the cheating that went on throughout their athletic programs? I have to believe their basketball program wouldn't be as successful if the players weren't kept eligible.

I'm only a North Carolina basketball fan. I can't tell you one other athlete they have at the school, so I'm not overly concerned about any other team besides the men's basketball team. Roy Williams isn't named anywhere in the investigation. I happen to believe him when he says he had no idea of the wrongdoing. Notre Dame Football has had some academic issues and the proper people were punished. For North Carolina, the proper people should (not sure about "will", this is the NCAA after all) be punished. But so far, the results have shown that Roy didn't know anything about it, so I don't really think about it too much to be honest.
 

ND NYC

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ive been around more than I care to admit...that was the best championship game in college basketball history, and no doubt had the best ending. yes better than the nc state airball turned tap in--Jenkins made the shot--moments after a just as ridiculous 3 by paige.

historic win for nova
 

BobbyMac

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ive been around more than I care to admit...that was the best championship game in college basketball history, and no doubt had the best ending. yes better than the nc state airball turned tap in--Jenkins made the shot--moments after a just as ridiculous 3 by paige.

historic win for nova

Best ever? It wasn't even Nova's best ever.
 

Irish#1

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ive been around more than I care to admit...that was the best championship game in college basketball history, and no doubt had the best ending. yes better than the nc state airball turned tap in--Jenkins made the shot--moments after a just as ridiculous 3 by paige.

historic win for nova

Disagree...........I give him all the credit in the world for being clutch and hitting it, but IMO that was not a difficult shot. He was wide open.

What Lorenzo Charles did was more difficult IMO. True Charles is simply under the board waiting to rebound, but to have the presence of mind to see the shot was off, grab it in the air and lay it in ahead of the buzzer was a better play.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Disagree...........I give him all the credit in the world for being clutch and hitting it, but IMO that was not a difficult shot. He was wide open.

What Lorenzo Charles did was more difficult IMO. True Charles is simply under the board waiting to rebound, but to have the presence of mind to see the shot was off, grab it in the air and lay it in ahead of the buzzer was a better play.

As NC NYC mentioned, it was the best ever because of what came right before it. Paige hit a double-clutch, off-balance shot to tie the game. No time out, Nova came out and ran a perfect sequence that led to the open shot. That 5 second sequence was historically good.
 

BobbyMac

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...if only Gordon Hayward's shot would have been 1/8" to the left.

It's in the same class as '79, '82, '83, '85, '87, '89, '08 & '10 for suspenseful games, we'll see how the talent translates at the next level, that plays apart in how things are remembered.
 

RDU Irish

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Great game with a great finish. UNC sour grapes are off the charts around here. As if Paige's off-hand, off balance, double clutch three to tie was a sure thing. The beauty of Nova's winning shot was the well designed play getting him wide open for a clean look. With close to 5 seconds on the clock I would have gone to the paint for a higher percentage shot with possibility of drawing a foul or even tip in on a miss. Even a wide open three is maybe a 40% probability - you would think you get over 50% closer to the hoop.

And if Roy Williams is oblivious to the BS non-classes UNC has perpetrated for so long I am the man on the moon. Sound like a Penn State homer defending JoePa.
 

ND NYC

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...if only Gordon Hayward's shot would have been 1/8" to the left.

It's in the same class as '79, '82, '83, '85, '87, '89, '08 & '10 for suspenseful games, we'll see how the talent translates at the next level, that plays apart in how things are remembered.

"next level" play has nothing to do with this
 

BobbyMac

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"next level" play has nothing to do with this

Sure it does... in how it's remembered.

The '82 & '83 games that you think this years game is better than had a combined 5 HOF'ers in them and were both last possession games also. This year's game arguably had the greatest final 5 seconds but that doesn't make it a better game. Watching Jordan and Perkins battle Ewing or Jimmy V's underdog Wolfpack beat Clyde and Hakeem on a last second airballeyoop matters.

If I could paint the Mona Lisa exactly like the original, it's worth $99 at a flea market. Who does what matters.
 

ND NYC

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Sure it does... in how it's remembered.

The '82 & '83 games that you think this years game is better than had a combined 5 HOF'ers in them and were both last possession games also. This year's game arguably had the greatest final 5 seconds but that doesn't make it a better game. Watching Jordan and Perkins battle Ewing or Jimmy V's underdog Wolfpack beat Clyde and Hakeem on a last second airballeyoop matters.

If I could paint the Mona Lisa exactly like the original, it's worth $99 at a flea market. Who does what matters.

agree to disagree its all good (reality is ALL the games we're discussing were great and incredible in their own ways)
to me its just something about a three going up, with 0.5 on the clock, then the horn going off and then "nylon", to win it all for ANY title has NEVER happened in college hoops before.
 
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Great game with a great finish. UNC sour grapes are off the charts around here. As if Paige's off-hand, off balance, double clutch three to tie was a sure thing. The beauty of Nova's winning shot was the well designed play getting him wide open for a clean look. With close to 5 seconds on the clock I would have gone to the paint for a higher percentage shot with possibility of drawing a foul or even tip in on a miss. Even a wide open three is maybe a 40% probability - you would think you get over 50% closer to the hoop.

And if Roy Williams is oblivious to the BS non-classes UNC has perpetrated for so long I am the man on the moon. Sound like a Penn State homer defending JoePa.

Without the 8 straight fouls in the first half coupled with the 4 point swing on the last possession of the first half with the no call on Jackson's layup, Marcus Paige maybe doesn't have to take that shot and we're probably not having this discussion. Carolina could have gone into the locker room up nine or more had it not been for some of those questionable fouls that lead to loss of possession and 1 and 1 opportunities for Nova. Whole different ball game going into the second half with Carolina having momentum and a larger lead, but, we'll never know.

Queue the "refs don't determine the outcome of the game" line of thinking (which is fine, if you think that way, it is opinion, after all). However, I happen to believe refs influence the outcome of a game all the time, especially in basketball. They establish the level of physicality that's permitted early on, which is fine. However, when one team gets to be physical and the other accumulates 8 straight ticky tack fouls, some of which were absolutely atrocious, that disparity impacts the game significantly. I've held these opinions during ND Football games, as well. I can't recall specific games, but when a football game produces 11 flags for one team, and 2 on the other, the disparity definitely impacts the game, in my opinion. There's holding, grabbing, interfering on every play if they really wanted to call it. The fact that there's a difference of say 9 flags, to me, indicates a significant favoring of one team. No one plays a clean game without an offensive or defensive holding. (On the other hand, flags for ND Football and refereeing deficiencies for UNC Hoops have influenced outcomes of games before in my team's favor, and I've admitted that.) So, in basketball, when one team accumulates 8 in a row and 0 on the other squad, the playing time for significant players is affected as well as the flow of the game and aggressiveness. I've always hated the "blaming the refs is an excuse" argument. Teams can definitely blame the refs. They should, in my opinion, when it's obvious. It is what it is, you don't get a do-over, so you obviously suck it up and move on eventually, but ignoring the fact that refs influence the game is dismissing a huge characteristic of that game that affected why it turned out the way it did. In a 3 point basketball game, like this championship game, the 4 point swing alone would have changed the result, not to mention the possessions taken away. So, yeah I suppose it could be someone's opinion that it's sour grapes. For me, it's pointing out something that affected the outcome. Both are opinions.

As far as Ol Roy and his obliviousness to the BS non-classes, neither of us know for sure, so it's best to just wait until the facts and rulings are released before we can say we know what happened. The information that's been made public so far has not mentioned Roy Williams once in terms of wrong doing, so until that is disproven, that'll have to be what I base my opinion on for now. Should assumptions based on other people's actions be where you draw your opinions, you're obviously welcome to do so. I've put a pin in thinking about that for a while, so I hope the findings shed light on the truth, whatever that might be, and then we can draw conclusive opinions on what he did or did not know.

Sorry for the rant. Just had to get it out. I'm just 100% against the "sour grapes" and "refs didn't cost you the game" line of thinking. Freaking hate it.
 

Irish#1

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I'm just 100% against the "sour grapes" and "refs didn't cost you the game" line of thinking. Freaking hate it.

There's an old saying in sports "Don't put yourself in a position to let the refs become a factor."
 

Irish#1

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As NC NYC mentioned, it was the best ever because of what came right before it. Paige hit a double-clutch, off-balance shot to tie the game. No time out, Nova came out and ran a perfect sequence that led to the open shot. That 5 second sequence was historically good.

Great finish no doubt. Just think the finish NCS had was greater. Especially given the point spread was the fourth largest for the CG.
 
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