'14 FL WR Isaiah McKenzie ( Georgia ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

[PANDFAN]

The thing is, I think we still are. I think we would take all three.

We've got 22 commits and Kelly's been saying for a while that we can take as many as 27. There are 6 guys left on the board and it's highly unlikely that all 6 will want in. It's not likely that we'll have to turn anyone away. We might as well stay in touch with McKenzie, and if he wants in, great. Relatively low-risk, since it's not like we are turning someone else away to give him his spot.

jc on bill king said things are trending more to ou for quick

 

[koonja]

I hate the argument 'staff knows better than you so don't even give your opinion'.

But as many times as the staff has been 'burned' by a recruit or player, they've been accurate judges of character and dodged more than enough bullets by discontinuing a players recruitment.

If they still think he's worth it, so do I.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskey that's a huge statement. Sure about that? LOL

It is a bold statement, and I'll qualify it by admitting I've only followed recruiting closely for the last 5 years or so. Also bears mentioning that the rise of social media and the 24-hour news cycle put current recruits under greater scrutiny than ever before.

I think it's at least plausible, though. Would love to hear counter-examples if you've got 'em.

 

[FLDomer]

It is a bold statement, and I'll qualify it by admitting I've only followed recruiting closely for the last 5 years or so. Also bears mentioning that the rise of social media and the 24-hour news cycle put current recruits under greater scrutiny than ever before.

I think it's at least plausible, though. Would love to hear counter-examples if you've got 'em.

Lynch, ND than FSU, than ND aaaand than USF....

Keil, IU, than LSU than ND (literally last minute) aaaaand than Cinci

Neal, that whole announcement thing waaaaay after signing day

 

[Cackalacky]

I swear you could make a daytime opera based on Notre Dame recruiting.




Shit, Notre Dame football in general.

"Young and the Restless"
"As the Dome Turns"
"Our Lady in Waiting"

This stuff is definitely good for a daily youtube channel show.

 

[tussin]

Even if we sign IM, I think it will be a miracle if he ever has a meaningful impact on the program.

 

[Bluto]

"Young and the Restless"
"As the Dome Turns"
"Our Lady in Waiting"

This stuff is definitely good for a daily youtube channel show.

Need to throw in something about knocking up girlfriend back home.

 

[Old Man Mike]

This is probably not worth tossing into this "discussion" but, what-the-he!l:

My brother played for VT during the Claiborne years when Beamer was a DBack. They've been friends since. My brother didn't have VT as his "dream school" either, but after going through it has fallen totally in love with it --- he will punch anyone in the mouth who tries to get into his face about that. So, it is as least possible that there are many people who intensely love the school wandering about out there.

As to teenagers: there certainly must be SOME teenagers who feel the same way due to these older folks being in their lives in some way. I can readily imagine students dreaming of going to Tech for one of their well-respected engineering degrees.

But what about football?: OK, if we're talking about "dreaming" not of going to Tech, but of playing football at Tech, again, why not? DC Bud Foster is just about the best, and the whole nation knows it. Plus, the VT DBacks coach is almost certainly VERY close to the best in the business and is a pipeline for DBs going to the NFL. I can easily imagine potential DBs salivating at the chance of playing at VT.

So, maybe what the discussion is really about is whether an OFFENSIVE player ever dreams of going to Tech. Well, you've got me there. I wouldn't know why they would frankly. Having said that though, since I can readily imagine almost any other sort of person having a dream to go to VT, I shrug my shoulders and say: why not?

Everyone's not the same.

.... and, I am quite impressed with McKenzie's explosive burst, and would like him on the football team, if he can handle the ND academic side, and is a team guy.

 

[#1rish]

Need to throw in something about knocking up girlfriend back home.

"All my Children"

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The thing is, I think we still are. I think we would take all three before we take both of the DTs (debatable though).

We've got 22 commits and Kelly's been saying for a while that we can take as many as 27. There are 6 guys left on the board and it's highly unlikely that all 6 will want in. So it's not likely that we'll have to turn anyone away. We might as well stay in touch with McKenzie, and if he wants in, great. If he ends up transferring out or not qualifying or whatever, we've really lost nothing, since it's not like we are turning someone else away to give him his spot.

I'm sure you're right. By "go all in on Quick and Alexander", I meant that more as emotional investment by ND fans rather than a suggestion that the staff cut off contact with IM and dedicate those resources to MQ and TA instead.

Lynch, ND than FSU, than ND aaaand than USF....

Keil, IU, than LSU than ND (literally last minute) aaaaand than Cinci

Neal, that whole announcement thing waaaaay after signing day

We've definitely learned the hard way that kids who decommit multiple times are very risky prospects. But none of those guys had more red flags than IM. AFAIK, none of them was at risk of failing to qualify, and none of them was so wildly inconsistent in what they told reporters.

To be clear, I'm not interested in indicting IM's character. We don't know enough about him to reliably do so, and there'd be little point to the exercise anyway. There are just so many red flags with him that we won't be able to breath easy even if he signs.

 

[Henges24]

Even if we sign IM, I think it will be a miracle if he ever has a meaningful impact on the program.

I am agreeing with this also. Although, I think it would be fun for about a year or two to watch him play but his size and his lack of ELITE speed screams injuries all over it.

 

[D-BOE34]

Recruiting thread of the year, Ive never seen any of us give so little of a shit if a kid ends up at ND or not now.

Also I understand IM is a kid and loves the attention from recruiting but to single out two negative posts amongst thousands of posts just goes to show you how incredibly narrow sided he is. Look i still want him to ND but i want to see his attitude shift once National signing day goes by the way side.

If he were to screen shot this forum, it would only show 2-3 posts, yet, this board is filled with posts that shit on the kid. I guarantee you that it is way more than 2 posts. So to call him narrow minded is wrong.

What the fuck is wrong with people? He can't take from the boards what he wants yet we sit here and react to whatever the fuck someone posts on here? Are we narrow minded as well? Would that make him one of us?

If he comes, great. Hope he returns the hell out of some punts. If he chooses another school, cool. Certain recruits can change the entire team. Literally could change our W/L record. There are maybe a few a year...maybe! This is not one of them. Let it go fellas...

 

[ulukinatme]

Need to throw in something about knocking up girlfriend back home.

"All my Children"

Reps

 

[IrishLion]

This is where I'm at. His explosiveness would fill a real need on our roster, so no "sour grapes" here. But as LAX mentioned previously, IM seems to have more red flags than any kid we've ever recruited before. Even if he signs, his chances of washing out before making a serious contribution are likely very high. At this point, I'd rather go all-in on Quick and Alexander.

Aside from his academics (which plenty of recruits at ND have had issues with) and his general wishy-washiness (plenty of ND recruits like this as well), what are the red flags?

 

[PANDFAN]

I'm sure you're right. By "go all in on Quick and Alexander", I meant that more as emotional investment by ND fans rather than a suggestion that the staff cut off contact with IM and dedicate those resources to MQ and TA instead.



We've definitely learned the hard way that kids who decommit multiple times are very risky prospects. But none of those guys had more red flags than IM. AFAIK, none of them was at risk of failing to qualify, and none of them was so wildly inconsistent in what they told reporters.

To be clear, I'm not interested in indicting IM's character. We don't know enough about him to reliably do so, and there'd be little point to the exercise anyway. There are just so many red flags with him that we won't be able to breath easy even if he signs.

lynch had to get his score up..but ur correct in saying MORE red flags...lynch is the ONLY one that compares in terms of # red flags

me first attitude which was reported
flipping commitments
academic issue needing a higher score on act

 

[ryno 24]

I love recruiting it gives me something to be interested in during the boring dredge of law school. I think he could be very helpful for Notre Dame particularly because he will not have the same hype as Davonte Neal. If he will ever play offense he will not have to be pressed into because of promises. If the staff closes on this they will focus on academics and he should know what he is getting himself into.

 

[tussin]

I am agreeing with this also. Although, I think it would be fun for about a year or two to watch him play but his size and his lack of ELITE speed screams injuries all over it.

While I do agree somewhat with what you were saying, I wasn't even referring to football production. I think there's a greater than 50% probability of a Neal-esque transfer or a Tee-esque flame out. I won't be excited if/when he signs.

 

[T Town Tommy]

If ND wants to be more involved with recruiting, especially in geographic locations that have tremendous recruits, having to deal with the ongoing saga of highly rated players will become more of the norm moving forward.

And the Irish fanbase should be prepared for taking these players that pose a higher risk if so. The question will always be out there as to whether the reward outweighs the risk. And no matter what the school does, you are going to probably win some and lose some. And half the fan base will say "I told ya so" depending on which side the outcome plays out.

 

[IrishLion]

lynch had to get his score up..but ur correct in saying MORE red flags...lynch is the ONLY one that compares in terms of # red flags

me first attitude which was reported
flipping commitments
academic issue needing a higher score on act

1. Me first attitude - Plenty of guys at ND that were like this... It's not helpful, but it's not a "red flag" that should lead to people saying he's not a fit at ND. I wish to refrain from giving examples since some guys are still in the program.

2. Flipping commitements - Red flag? You serious Clark?

3. Academic issues - No different than any guy that comes to ND that wasn't pulling a super-high GPA. It's a challenge for them all, and there are still guys on the roster that have had "academic issues." This is the only real red flag, but it's something that staff and school work with. So if they are willing to take him, why not?


EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, IM doesn't have any more "red flags" than other recruits that have considered/chosen ND. His "red flags" are being blown out of proportion due to the turns his recruitment has taken.

 

[wizards8507]

If ND wants to be more involved with recruiting, especially in geographic locations that have tremendous recruits, having to deal with the ongoing saga of highly rated players will become more of the norm moving forward.

And the Irish fanbase should be prepared for taking these players that pose a higher risk if so. The question will always be out there as to whether the reward outweighs the risk. And no matter what the school does, you are going to probably win some and lose some. And half the fan base will say "I told ya so" depending on which side the outcome plays out.

The problem (and I don't know if it's a problem so much as something we just have to deal with) is that Notre Dame won't oversign, so there's a premium placed on "sure thing" guys. If we were signing to 95, we'd be able to go after luxury guys that we may or may not land. But if we're only signing to 85, we're holding spots open for 50/50 recruits and when those 50/50 recruits don't commit, we're left with open scholarships.

I think this is an area that the NCAA needs to revisit. The combination of scholarship limits and lack of four-year scholarships encourage teams to oversign. If they forced schools to give four-year scholarships, they could change the scholarship limit to an "active participant" limit. You can give a four-year scholarship to as many dudes as you want, but only 85 can participate.

 

[wizards8507]

1. Me first attitude - Plenty of guys at ND that were like this... It's not helpful, but it's not a "red flag" that should lead to people saying he's not a fit at ND. I wish to refrain from giving examples since some guys are still in the program.

2. Flipping commitements - Red flag? You serious Clark?

3. Academic issues - No different than any guy that comes to ND that wasn't pulling a super-high GPA. It's a challenge for them all, and there are still guys on the roster that have had "academic issues." This is the only real red flag, but it's something that staff and school work with. So if they are willing to take him, why not?


EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, IM doesn't have any more "red flags" than other recruits that have considered/chosen ND. His "red flags" are being blown out of proportion due to the turns his recruitment has taken.

The red flags aren't being blown out of proportion "due to the turns his recruitment has taken." The "turns his recruitment has taken" are red flags in and of themselves. Yes, "me first" attitude, academic issues, and flipping commitments are all red flags. A "red flag" doesn't mean you give up on the kid entirely, but it makes you at least question whether these things are a sign of future trouble. Based on recent trends, they have been. Yes, there are "me first" guys who do just fine, but you can't throw out a trend just because it doesn't hold 100% of a time. The trend that "me first guys" are riskier for decommitment, transfer, and disciplinary issues is just a fact. Again, not "there WILL be issues," but "riskier for issues."

 

[T Town Tommy]

The problem (and I don't know if it's a problem so much as something we just have to deal with) is that Notre Dame won't oversign, so there's a premium placed on "sure thing" guys. If we were signing to 95, we'd be able to go after luxury guys that we may or may not land. But if we're only signing to 85, we're holding spots open for 50/50 recruits and when those 50/50 recruits don't commit, we're left with open scholarships.

I think this is an area that the NCAA needs to revisit. The combination of scholarship limits and lack of four-year scholarships encourage teams to oversign. If they forced schools to give four-year scholarships, they could change the scholarship limit to an "active participant" limit. You can give a four-year scholarship to as many dudes as you want, but only 85 can participate.

I think you put the offers out there and then the recruits have to know that either they commit or they may not have a slot left. This was mentioned earlier in the thread about BK possibly telling IM this. If he waits to commit, then he may not have the chance to later. The only sure thing is that he has the offer at that point. If he chooses to wait and loses out, then that's on him. Of course, the staff has to make the decision when and who to accept. But not getting to 85 because you don't have the ability to turn down players... especially this late in the game is a coaching mistake. No need to oversign... but no reason to not have to turn players away either. I mean it is Notre Dame... and that should still mean something.

 

[IrishLion]

The red flags aren't being blown out of proportion "due to the turns his recruitment has taken." The "turns his recruitment has taken" are red flags in and of themselves. Yes, "me first" attitude, academic issues, and flipping commitments are all red flags. A "red flag" doesn't mean you give up on the kid entirely, but it makes you at least question whether these things are a sign of future trouble. Based on recent trends, they have been. Yes, there are "me first" guys who do just fine, but you can't throw out a trend just because it doesn't hold 100% of a time. The trend that "me first guys" are riskier for decommitment, transfer, and disciplinary issues is just a fact. Again, not "there WILL be issues," but "riskier for issues."

So he "commits" to ND while noone else is recruiting him, then has to get his academics in order. He puts the work in, gets qualified (it seems that way at least), then "decommits" to play the recruiting game now that he has options. He struggles with interviews and says misleading things. He sees people trashing him on the internet, saying he can't cut it, and gets upset. Those aren't "red flags" to me. The academics would be a red flag, but I think he's proven he's willing to work. He says misleading things, but that's no different than any recruit that tells a certain staff or reporter the things they want to hear about the school they represent.

The me first attitude, yes that's a red flag. I should have thought about it more. But different guys respond to no longer being in that "me first" environment in different ways, and there are posters here referencing that attitude as concrete evidence of why he's not a "fit" at ND.

Of course he's a risky prospect, but so are many of the guys currently on the team. And yet people on IE are beginning to act like they wouldn't touch IM with a ten-foot pole, and I think much of that is because he's playing the recruiting game when everyone thought he would be a lock if he qualified.

 

[Wild Bill]

If ND wants to be more involved with recruiting, especially in geographic locations that have tremendous recruits, having to deal with the ongoing saga of highly rated players will become more of the norm moving forward.

And the Irish fanbase should be prepared for taking these players that pose a higher risk if so. The question will always be out there as to whether the reward outweighs the risk. And no matter what the school does, you are going to probably win some and lose some. And half the fan base will say "I told ya so" depending on which side the outcome plays out.

I'd be a huge fan of taking risks on players if we could use a JUCO player every now and then to plug a hole if it doesn't work out. It's just not an option so the staff has to be careful.

 

[Irish#1]

Graduating classes of my high school. Look up '03, '04, '05, '06... hundreds of people who went to Tech, never heard a single one call it their dream school.

Again, this is not to say Tech isn't a very good school and that people don't love it/want to go there. I work with tons of engineers from Tech. My HS lacrosse coach went to Tech. I have the utmost respect for that place. But I've heard classmates of mine call Stanford, USC, Harvard, ND, Michigan, UVA, Chicago, Penn, Yale, etc. dream schools for various reasons. Never, ever heard someone say something like that about Tech.

I can conceive of local athletes or kids from Virginia Beach calling it a dream school. Still cannot picture any regular Joe or kid from well out of state who was... 5? 6? when Vick was playing putting it on a pedestal as THE #1 dream place they want to go if they had unlimited options. I look forward to meeting Kane's people.

Don't get worked up Lax, just having some fun. lol

If IM really posted that he may not visit anywhere this weekend because he's upset, then is VT really as much of a dream school that he says it is?

Just when you think this recruitment has covered all the bases something else pops up.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I'd be a huge fan of taking risks on players if we could use a JUCO player every now and then to plug a hole if it doesn't work out. It's just not an option so the staff has to be careful.

Good point.

 

[wizards8507]

How does this work if he decides "not to take a visit"? Presumably, ND has booked plane tickets, accomodations, etc... Does the university just eat that cost if he decides to bail?

 

[Emcee77]

WOW dynamite update from Loy ...

Alford will swing by today after seeing Holmes and spend a few hours with McKenzie and see where he is and whether he is up for the rigors of ND. Today's visit will determine whether Isaiah takes his ND official and signs with ND or visits VT and signs there, basically. Loy doesn't think Ole Miss or UF are factors.

Apparently we have checked in with other offensive-playmaker prospects to gauge interest, and if Isaiah chooses to visit VT, we will seek to bring someone else in for a visit this weekend. Loy knows of one prospect committed elsewhere who is VERY interested.

 

[Ironman8]

Loy is hearing that Alford will be down in FL to see IM today, and depending on how that conversation goes we should really know whether or not he will be in the class based on whether or not he visits.

If he does not visit ND, ND will move on, and Loy is reporting ND has already reached out to potential prospects that could take his spot.

He even heard that one prospect committed elsewhere is VERY interested in that spot and could flip immediately if IM falls through and the spot opens for him.

Stay tuned....

 

[dublinirish]

anyone want to guess who the committed to another school prospect is?