Who do you want to replace Brian Kelly?

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Yup.

It's not about supporting Kelly because you think he's the answer, it's about accepting the fact that he is not getting replaced this year* regardless of how much of a tantrum you throw. So once you accept that fact, there is literally no logical or rational reason to act how people are acting with their ads and such

The 'tantrum' narrative is laughable. You sound like trump when you say things like that, and I know you are better than that. Others, no so much. Activism has a long history of positive change in this country, and that's what these things are; activism. If you don't like it,that's fine, no one is asking you to participate.

 

[IrishLax]

The 'tantrum' narrative is laughable. You sound like trump when you say things like that, and I know you are better than that. Others, no so much. Activism has a long history of positive change in this country, and that's what these things are; activism. If you don't like it,that's fine, no one is asking you to participate.

Call it whatever you want. I'm not going to argue semantics.

The core of what I said... that it is poorly conceived and cannot possibly do any good; but has already had ill effects... is the meat of what I'm trying to communicate. So if you still choose "activism" that means you prefer the team be hurt and for us to sign a bad recruiting class. That's not really a defensible position to have as a fan.

And to be very clear, the reason why it is so stupid to be doing what some people are doing is that the BoT, Jenkins, Swarbrick, etc. already know that people are pissed. And they are just as unhappy. And they evaluated making a change. Once it became clear that a change didn't make sense, that's when Swarbrick voiced full throated support for Kelly which is the only option in that situation. I have no clue why people think it was reasonable to expect Swarbrick to come out and say "yeah, let me level with you guys... we're not happy, we considered firing Kelly... but we couldn't find anyone better, and it was cost prohibitive. Sorry." If an AD ever said that it would ruin both the current team and recruiting.

Why couldn't they make a change? $5mil/year for buyout + $3mil/year for Matt Rhule (this is the best we were going to do) + Rhule's buyout whatever small number that was = $8+ mil/year for a coach that isn't an obvious upgrade over Kelly in any way, shape, or form.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

The core of what I said... that it is poorly conceived and cannot possibly do any good; but has already had ill effects... is the meat of what I'm trying to communicate. So if you still choose "activism" that means you prefer the team be hurt and for us to sign a bad recruiting class. That's not really a defensible position to have as a fan.

i guess we will agree to disagree.

 

[dad4aa]

Shamrock and OC... what if I told you that on top of recruits/parents being on social media, they also read these boards? What if I told you that after an ISD member made a post about with a "letter he was sending to Swarbrick" that a parent of a very prominent recruit called an ISD reporter asking "what the hell is wrong with Notre Dame fans?" And then what if I told you that this wasn't uncommon and that multiple parents have noted to multiple professionals that the actions of Notre Dame fans over the latter half of the season up to today are a "big turnoff" and "troubling"? Those are direct quotes from players' parents everyone on here would REALLY give a shit about landing.

It's not about supporting Kelly because you think he's the answer, it's about accepting the fact that he is not getting replaced this year* regardless of how much of a tantrum you throw. So once you accept that fact, there is literally no logical or rational reason to act how people are acting with their ads and such.

Fan support is considered one of ND's biggest selling points, especially relative to some peers we recruit against like Stanford. These public actions being taken are not only undermining what is a perceived positive, but also validating negative recruiting and other concerns that prospects/parents have. If you can't see the tangible harm from these actions... but you do see a tangible benefit... that's pure cognitive dissonance.

*There's an outside chance that after the NFL season concludes something could happen. Very improbable at this point. And it'll have nothing to do with newspaper ads and snow messages.

Excellent post. Tried to rep you but I couldn't.

 

[BeauBenken]

The 'tantrum' narrative is laughable. You sound like trump when you say things like that, and I know you are better than that. Others, no so much. Activism has a long history of positive change in this country, and that's what these things are; activism. If you don't like it,that's fine, no one is asking you to participate.

What the hell are you saying? This isn't politics. It's a damn football team. Is your argument seriously "'MURICA"?

Shit like this regularly makes ND fans look foolish and can have a negative impact on recruiting.

 

[NCND]

I wonder how Mr. Mike Murphy, ND '89, would feel if a group of Notre Dame fans got together and took out a full page ad in his local paper, proclaiming what a douchebag he is, and just letting him know that many other alumni and fans wish he and his ilk would STFU, or at least find a less destructive way to express their concern?

Is anything in that ad wrong? Win and all this crap wouldn't happen. Enough with the fucking excuses like everything is ok. Personally, I'm glad someone is shedding a light on what's not getting done here.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

What the hell are you saying? This isn't politics. It's a damn football team. Is your argument seriously "'MURICA"?.

Reading is fundamental.

 

[Bluto]

The dingbats running those adds are taking the old school self flagilation
while wearing a wool sweater in the middle of summer route to solving the problems with ND Football. I would say it blows my mind but then I look at our president elect...

 

[Bluto]

*There's an outside chance that after the NFL season concludes something could happen. Very improbable at this point. And it'll have nothing to do with newspaper ads and snow messages.

Harbaugh?

 

[kmoose]

Is anything in that ad wrong? Win and all this crap wouldn't happen. Enough with the fucking excuses like everything is ok. Personally, I'm glad someone is shedding a light on what's not getting done here.

No $hit! I can't believe that Swarbrick and Kelly have had the balls to hide all of the records and bad losses from the Board of Trustees. It's about time someone exposed their treachery!!

 

[Cackalacky]

No $hit! I can't believe that Swarbrick and Kelly have had the balls to hide all of the records and bad losses from the Board of Trustees. It's about time someone exposed their treachery!!

This conspiracy must be brought to light!

 

[NDFAN420]

Yup.



Nope.



Good grief.

Shamrock and OC... what if I told you that on top of recruits/parents being on social media, they also read these boards? What if I told you that after an ISD member made a post about with a "letter he was sending to Swarbrick" that a parent of a very prominent recruit called an ISD reporter asking "what the hell is wrong with Notre Dame fans?" And then what if I told you that this wasn't uncommon and that multiple parents have noted to multiple professionals that the actions of Notre Dame fans over the latter half of the season up to today are a "big turnoff" and "troubling"? Those are direct quotes from players' parents everyone on here would REALLY give a shit about landing.

It's not about supporting Kelly because you think he's the answer, it's about accepting the fact that he is not getting replaced this year* regardless of how much of a tantrum you throw. So once you accept that fact, there is literally no logical or rational reason to act how people are acting with their ads and such.

Fan support is considered one of ND's biggest selling points, especially relative to some peers we recruit against like Stanford. These public actions being taken are not only undermining what is a perceived positive, but also validating negative recruiting and other concerns that prospects/parents have. If you can't see the tangible harm from these actions... but you do see a tangible benefit... that's pure cognitive dissonance.

*There's an outside chance that after the NFL season concludes something could happen. Very improbable at this point. And it'll have nothing to do with newspaper ads and snow messages.

Then I would say that those parents and recruits are as fickle as the fans they are supposedly worried about. So if somebody is saying that a situation is messed up, but another person who has something else invested and something to gain in that product doesn't like it, they get to tell people to STFU? Nope. Doesn't work that way.

What if you told me that? I wouldn't care. ND football is a great big dumpster fire and it's pretty obvious. I should not say so because a recruit's parents don't like it? Don't care. My investiture is different than theirs. If they don't like it, lump it.

 

[kmoose]

Then I would say that those parents and recruits are as fickle as the fans they are supposedly worried about. So if somebody is saying that a situation is messed up, but another person who has something else invested and something to gain in that product doesn't like it, they get to tell people to STFU? Nope. Doesn't work that way.

What if you told me that? I wouldn't care. ND football is a great big dumpster fire and it's pretty obvious. I should not say so because a recruit's parents don't like it? Don't care. My investiture is different than theirs. If they don't like it, lump it.

WTF is your investiture in ND football?

 

[MNIrishman]

WTF is your investiture in ND football?

It's when you put in stuff and it pays you back in diffidends.

 

[stlnd01]

Serious question: How, exactly, is Notre Dame football "a great big dumpster fire."
Because it's not obvious to me.

We had a bad season. Maybe it's time for Kelly to move on. But overall the football program is still in much better shape than it has been for most of the last 20 years. A little perspective wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[kmoose]

Serious question: How, exactly, is Notre Dame football "a great big dumpster fire."
Because it's not obvious to me.

We had a bad season. Maybe it's time for Kelly to move on. But overall the football program is still in much better shape than it has been for most of the last 20 years. A little perspective wouldn't be the end of the world.

^^This^^ Thanks for saying it!

 

[Crazy Balki]

Call it whatever you want. I'm not going to argue semantics.

The core of what I said... that it is poorly conceived and cannot possibly do any good; but has already had ill effects... is the meat of what I'm trying to communicate. So if you still choose "activism" that means you prefer the team be hurt and for us to sign a bad recruiting class. That's not really a defensible position to have as a fan.

And to be very clear, the reason why it is so stupid to be doing what some people are doing is that the BoT, Jenkins, Swarbrick, etc. already know that people are pissed. And they are just as unhappy. And they evaluated making a change. Once it became clear that a change didn't make sense, that's when Swarbrick voiced full throated support for Kelly which is the only option in that situation. I have no clue why people think it was reasonable to expect Swarbrick to come out and say "yeah, let me level with you guys... we're not happy, we considered firing Kelly... but we couldn't find anyone better, and it was cost prohibitive. Sorry." If an AD ever said that it would ruin both the current team and recruiting.

Why couldn't they make a change? $5mil/year for buyout + $3mil/year for Matt Rhule (this is the best we were going to do) + Rhule's buyout whatever small number that was = $8+ mil/year for a coach that isn't an obvious upgrade over Kelly in any way, shape, or form.

LAX, I in no way disagree with you. But I also sympathize with the torch-bearers among the ND fanbase.

Here's why:

You mention that Jack and the BoT likely considered making the change, but reference the buyout as the main issue as to why ND presumably decided that it wouldn't make sense (Not saying that's true or not). To me, that is a downright poor excuse. Kelly did not earn an extension of that magnitude, and I equate it to the extension given to Weis. Hell, the similarities are striking, as they both came off of 3 loss seasons in which ND was beaten in the Fiesta Bowl by Ohio State in fairly convincing fashion. That doesn't scream "extend him" to me. The BoT and Jack have no one to blame but themselves for the current financial predicament.

My main gripe is that, no offense to these parents that are wondering "What the hell is wrong with ND fans", but they really need to grab hold of reality and take it for a spin. What ND fans are doing is nothing out of the ordinary from a frustrated fanbase as a result of a really poor season. Michigan fans were ranting and raving and petitioning to get rid of Rich Rod and Hoke; Texas fans went nuclear and wanted Charlie Strong gone a few games into his 2nd year. LSU fans wanted Les Miles gone for years and he never even had a losing season. Mark Richt at UGA. Kiffin at USC. Fulmer at Tennessee. Muschamp at Florida. If parents are really basing their decision on how a select few fans react to a really bad season, then I don't feel like those kids are being given proper guidance. That is simply a stupid reason to right off a school and that, in my opinion, shows poorly on them more so than the fans.

Me personally, as much as I disagree with their decision, I'm reserving judgment until 2017 begins and we see if they made a wise choice. I can't blame others who are not satisfied with this decision and are outward in expressing their disdain for it. ND fans deserve A LOT better than this. Parents of recruits should realize that. Fanbases are made up of human beings and human beings have vast array of emotions and a wide variety of opinions. At the end of the day, ND fans are that because they love the University and want what's best for it.

There are certain things that fans do that could warrant a parent's concern. Violent or illegal acts, hell how about Penn State fans pelting opposing fans with snowballs, that certainly reflects poorly on an institution. Written protest in regards to the decision to retain a coach after a very poor season is not among those things IMO.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

LAX, I in no way disagree with you. But I also sympathize with the torch-bearers among the ND fanbase.

Here's why:

You mention that Jack and the BoT likely considered making the change, but reference the buyout as the main issue as to why ND presumably decided that it wouldn't make sense (Not saying that's true or not). To me, that is a downright poor excuse. Kelly did not earn an extension of that magnitude, and I equate it to the extension given to Weis. Hell, the similarities are striking, as they both came off of 3 loss seasons in which ND was beaten in the Fiesta Bowl by Ohio State in fairly convincing fashion. That doesn't scream "extend him" to me. The BoT and Jack have no one to blame but themselves for the current financial predicament.

My main gripe is that, no offense to these parents that are wondering "What the hell is wrong with ND fans", but they really need to grab hold of reality and take it for a spin. What ND fans are doing is nothing out of the ordinary from a frustrated fanbase as a result of a really poor season. Michigan fans were ranting and raving and petitioning to get rid of Rich Rod and Hoke; Texas fans went nuclear and wanted Charlie Strong gone a few games into his 2nd year. LSU fans wanted Les Miles gone for years and he never even had a losing season. Mark Richt at UGA. Kiffin at USC. Fulmer at Tennessee. Muschamp at Florida. If parents are really basing their decision on how a select few fans react to a really bad season, then I don't feel like those kids are being given proper guidance. That is simply a stupid reason to right off a school and that, in my opinion, shows poorly on them more so than the fans.

Me personally, as much as I disagree with their decision, I'm reserving judgment until 2017 begins and we see if they made a wise choice. I can't blame others who are not satisfied with this decision and are outward in expressing their disdain for it. ND fans deserve A LOT better than this. Parents of recruits should realize that. Fanbases are made up of human beings and human beings have vast array of emotions and a wide variety of opinions. At the end of the day, ND fans are that because they love the University and want what's best for it.

There are certain things that fans do that could warrant a parent's concern. Violent or illegal acts, hell how about Penn State fans pelting opposing fans with snowballs, that certainly reflects poorly on an institution. Written protest in regards to the decision to retain a coach after a very poor season is not among those things IMO.

^^^^^ reps

 

[Classic Irish]

It's actually Dr. Mike Murphy, ND '89 (he is a physician).

Does Dr. Mike Murphy, ND '89, make millions of dollars a year to run ND football? Being the coach at ND (or any major program) is like being a politician. It is not a job for someone who doesn't want attention or criticism. Kelly receives the scrutiny commensurate with his job.

So he's a physician...so what. I'm a physician. What does that have to do with anything? Just because he's a physician doesn't mean he's more credible.

 

[NDohio]

LAX, I in no way disagree with you. But I also sympathize with the torch-bearers among the ND fanbase.

Here's why:

You mention that Jack and the BoT likely considered making the change, but reference the buyout as the main issue as to why ND presumably decided that it wouldn't make sense (Not saying that's true or not). To me, that is a downright poor excuse. Kelly did not earn an extension of that magnitude, and I equate it to the extension given to Weis. Hell, the similarities are striking, as they both came off of 3 loss seasons in which ND was beaten in the Fiesta Bowl by Ohio State in fairly convincing fashion. That doesn't scream "extend him" to me. The BoT and Jack have no one to blame but themselves for the current financial predicament.

My main gripe is that, no offense to these parents that are wondering "What the hell is wrong with ND fans", but they really need to grab hold of reality and take it for a spin. What ND fans are doing is nothing out of the ordinary from a frustrated fanbase as a result of a really poor season. Michigan fans were ranting and raving and petitioning to get rid of Rich Rod and Hoke; Texas fans went nuclear and wanted Charlie Strong gone a few games into his 2nd year. LSU fans wanted Les Miles gone for years and he never even had a losing season. Mark Richt at UGA. Kiffin at USC. Fulmer at Tennessee. Muschamp at Florida. If parents are really basing their decision on how a select few fans react to a really bad season, then I don't feel like those kids are being given proper guidance. That is simply a stupid reason to right off a school and that, in my opinion, shows poorly on them more so than the fans.

Me personally, as much as I disagree with their decision, I'm reserving judgment until 2017 begins and we see if they made a wise choice. I can't blame others who are not satisfied with this decision and are outward in expressing their disdain for it. ND fans deserve A LOT better than this. Parents of recruits should realize that. Fanbases are made up of human beings and human beings have vast array of emotions and a wide variety of opinions. At the end of the day, ND fans are that because they love the University and want what's best for it.

There are certain things that fans do that could warrant a parent's concern. Violent or illegal acts, hell how about Penn State fans pelting opposing fans with snowballs, that certainly reflects poorly on an institution. Written protest in regards to the decision to retain a coach after a very poor season is not among those things IMO.

And the argument could be made that the teams in bold are worse off now than what they were prior to them changing coaches. In many of these the jury is still out but there are no obvious upgrades in any of these situations. In your entire list only Michigan clearly made the right choice.

The timing was not right this year for BK's departure. I understand the displeasure with the status quo, but these ads are embarrassing to ND.

 

[gkIrish]

I don't think writing FIRE KELLY in the snow while recruits are on campus is a great idea but the reason you don't see fans of other top programs acting like that is because they didn't retain their coach after going 4-8.

You better believe Texas fans would be acting like this or worse if Strong was not sacked. Notre Dame fans aren't really behaving poorly, they are reacting to the situation, which is unique.

 

[NDgradstudent]

And the argument could be made that the teams in bold are worse off now than what they were prior to them changing coaches. In many of these the jury is still out but there are no obvious upgrades in any of these situations. In your entire list only Michigan clearly made the right choice.

The timing was not right this year for BK's departure. I understand the displeasure with the status quo, but these ads are embarrassing to ND.

Two of these coaches are not like the others...I think Florida clearly made the right choice, too. The Richt and Miles records did not merit firing. Kelly's record is clearly much worse such that taking a risk on a new coach is worth it. There is always some risk involved in a coaching change.

 

[IrishLax]

You mention that Jack and the BoT likely considered making the change, but reference the buyout as the main issue as to why ND presumably decided that it wouldn't make sense (Not saying that's true or not).

It's more of a combination. I said they're not going to effectively pay $8mil/year for Matt Rhule. They would pay that for John Harbaugh, they'd probably pay that Bill O'Brien. It's a combination of the money AND that there isn't a good option. The bigger issue is the latter part of that. There's no universe where Rhule is clearly a better and safer choice than Kelly.

That doesn't scream "extend him" to me. The BoT and Jack have no one to blame but themselves for the current financial predicament.

If they didn't extend Kelly, he would've left last year... probably for the USC job. The only thing you can quibble over is the length of the extension, the financial commitment, etc. but none of us know exactly what those discussions were and what it took to keep him.

People would've absolutely lost their minds if that happened.

My main gripe is that, no offense to these parents that are wondering "What the hell is wrong with ND fans", but they really need to grab hold of reality and take it for a spin.

Regardless of what you think of this situation with Kelly and how it might be unique in college football, there is no doubt that fans taking out ads to fire a coach who went to a NY6 bowl the previous season is basically unprecedented. It's not about being mad on social media or message boards... it's about the next level shit. That's why national media are writing articles about ND fans acting like fools... because it's different than what we normally see.

 

[NDdomer2]

What I see in here is "But Mommy, I want a championship NOW!!" LOL

 

[phgreek]

What I see in here is "But Mommy, I want a championship NOW!!" LOL

Funny...I'll give you that, but not true in my experience.

I'm in the camp that Kelly needed to stay this year because the timing was off for getting the right coach. But I can't dismiss the stats. I think most people were looking for sustained performance. Yes BK is better than his immediate predecessors, yes he gets nice recruiting classes, but he's had a hard time translating those consistent recruiting successes to consistent play on the field.

Given what Urban, Dantonio, Kakis have done, the "cold" weather seems not to mean shit to kids who play football. Given that Stanford seems to hold an advantage lately...I feel like the argument about academic rigors has less weight.

I guess my point is, the folks who wanted to replace BK have some solid basis for that desire. I only hope they cut the bullshit of running adds and carving shit in the snow that will cost recruits...I expected more out of ND people than to devolve into self-detrimental tantrums where they burn down their own shit because they are disgruntled...fucking stupid.

 

[gkIrish]

What I see in here is "But Mommy, I want a championship NOW!!" LOL

It's been close to 30 years.

 

[NDdomer2]

It's been close to 30 years.

So maybe acting like kids should stop cuz it doesnt work.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

So maybe acting like kids should stop cuz it doesnt work.

If you don't like it, you might want to strap in. It's going to keep coming.

 

[NDdomer2]

If you don't like it, you might want to strap in. It's going to keep coming.

Yeah some people just can't grow up...

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Yeah some people just can't grow up...

Indeed.