The Jameis Winston Investigation Thread

The Jameis Winston Investigation Thread

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 77 47.8%
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    Votes: 84 52.2%

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    161

wizards8507

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Yes, people respect ND as a school, but not as a football program. Big difference.
Okay and six days ago he said "how are we looking for Florida State?" in a genuinely interested way. I (the ND fan and alum) was the one who had to lower expectations and pump the brakes, reminding him that UNC wasn't a given so we'd have to see how that one played out first.
 

irishog77

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Okay and six days ago he said "how are we looking for Florida State?" in a genuinely interested way. I (the ND fan and alum) was the one who had to lower expectations and pump the brakes, reminding him that UNC wasn't a given so we'd have to see how that one played out first.

I can give you thousands of anecdotal examples of people in the south that like and respect ND's football team.

It doesn't change the fact that there are then millions of examples of people in the south who think ND football is a joke.
 

woolybug25

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I've lived in Wisconsin for 25 years, Colorado for 2, and OH for 1 FWIW.

So how does 3 years outside of of Wisconson give you enough knowledge about how the entire country would view a Notre Dame win? Really... only your one year in OH is even living in a part of the country that has an opinion.

I just don't agree with that. Everyone knows this is a big game. Defending champs, heisman, longest current winning streak, it's the ideal big game.

If this is your floor for a big game, then you will never be happy. Most teams only get to play a game like this during their regular season once every 5 to 10 years, and you seem like losing it close is a better option than winning it.

Of course losing hurts. But losing by 10 to Winston on the road is better IMO than losing to the true freshman on the road by 3.

They are both week 7 losses. The narrative will be the exact same come playoff time.

IF Auburn had lost to MSU without Prescott, but only lost by 3, would we be laughing? I would. But as is, I still think Auburn is legit.

Uhm... no...
 

BleedBlueGold

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Good luck selling those as big games to the nation.

How many top ten teams has ND had a chance to play since BK has been at ND? You need to define "big games" because if you're talking top ten team or top five teams, ND hasn't even had the chance to play many. How is beating #8 Oklahoma on the road not a big game? Sorry ND doesn't play in the SEC West man. Idk what to tell you.
 

Emcee77

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I can give you thousands of anecdotal examples of people in the south that like and respect ND's football team.

It doesn't change the fact that there are then millions of examples of people in the south who think ND football is a joke.

+1
 

wizards8507

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I wish I was in charge of making the anti-ND GameDay signs. It would be way too easy. The constant butthurt and victim mentality of the Notre Dame fan is truly comical.

This table pretty much sums it up. It's based on how college football teams have performed against their preseason ranking back to 1989. We're the sixth-most overrated team in the last 25 years, even with the 2012 outlier when we were the second most underrated team.

Cumulative Overrated/Underrated Teams
 

gkIrish

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Koon---OSU fans hate ND with a passion out of jealousy mostly. That will never change.

People don't hate on Oregon, Michigan St., Stanford, etc. because they have had relatively little success historically.

I think some of you are confusing "hate" with "disrespect." There are a large percentage of fans that hate ND and will try to bring us down because they don't want to see us succeed. But that doesn't mean they don't respect the fact that we field a pretty good football team once in a while. The fans that hate us aren't going to give us credit no matter what we do. But who cares about them? All we want is to put ourselves in the best position to make the playoffs and try to prove we belong on the field with the Bamas and Auburns of the world.

I don't want to win a championship to "silence" anyone. I want to win one because it will bring ME personal happiness and satisfaction.
 

irishfanjho15

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I wish I was in charge of making the anti-ND GameDay signs. It would be way too easy. The constant butthurt and victim mentality of the Notre Dame fan is truly comical.

This table pretty much sums it up. It's based on how college football teams have performed against their preseason ranking back to 1989. We're the sixth-most overrated team in the last 25 years, even with the 2012 outlier when we were the second most underrated team.

Cumulative Overrated/Underrated Teams

The other most overrated?

About every brand name program in the country. The polls are and have been broken, for a long time. Especially those of the preseason variety. Your empirical evidence lacks context and only produces the data that supports your argument. How ESPN-chic of you.

On another point....

Quite interesting to see Sparty near the top the list though, as we have had an extreme amount of success against them in Kelly's tenure.
 
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connor_in

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And if you think when people say 'Well ND beat FSU', the first response isn't 'yeah, against the 3rd string QB and without Jameis Winston', you straight trippin homie.

My response to this is, so what?

If JW plays and we beat them and its anywhere near close, people who don't like ND aren't going to come around. They will come up with a different thing to say as reason FSU should have won.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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I almost posted a comment to this end earlier but didn't want to compare pedophilia w Autographs, shoplifting and the like. I know the comparison has to do w the culture to cover up and I agree w that entirely. The horrendous nature of the crimes, the length of time over which the crimes took place and the number of victims involved (in not so Happy Valley) gave me pause to offering the comparison. And no, I am not dismissing the rape allegations. F$U is a cesspool and that's the bottom line.
 
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Ndaccountant

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I almost posted a comment to this end earlier but didn't want to compare pedophilia w Autographs, shoplifting and the like. I know the comparison has to do w the culture to cover up and I agree w that entirely. The horrendous nature of the crimes, the length of time over which the crimes took place and the number of victims involved (in not so Happy Valley) gave me pause to offering the comparison. And no, I am not dismissing the rape allegations. F$U is a cesspool and that's the bottom line.

I never heard that FSU did what is alleged here. If that is the case, they all should be shown the door.

My hunch is that the Title IX investigation will be the tipping point and things will change once that takes place.
 

IRISH in MT

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I am truly torn on Winston playing this weekend. The winner inside wants him to play so we can knock off the reigning Champs + their beloved Heisman winner. BUT, if they decide to suspend him after the ND game this weekend then that is B.S.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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I never heard that FSU did what is alleged here. If that is the case, they all should be shown the door.

My hunch is that the Title IX investigation will be the tipping point and things will change once that takes place.

Nor did I until I read the article from the Times. Agreed, they should be shown the door, the door to the jail. Hope you are right re. the Title IX investigation but not holding my breath.
 

irish1958

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My response to this is, so what?

If JW plays and we beat them and its anywhere near close, people who don't like ND aren't going to come around. They will come up with a different thing to say as reason FSU should have won.
As did happen in 1993.
 

Whiskeyjack

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SI's Michael Rosenberg just published an article about the Winston investigation:

It’s easy to throw everything Jameis Winston has done into one large bowl of Jameis jambalaya, then let everybody in America conduct a taste test. Then we can opine semi-seriously about whether he is a bad guy or misunderstood or if he simply doesn’t get it while making jokes about stealing crab legs. But that would be a mistake. You can’t throw all the accusations against Winston into the same pot.

There are really two accusations against the Florida State quarterback; they are very different, and one continues to obscure the other.

One accusation is that he behaves like a doofus. The evidence is ample, and even his staunchest defenders admit it. There was the time he stole crab legs from a Publix. And that time he was caught sneaking soda into a water cup at Burger King. And there was the time police stopped and handcuffed him for carrying a pellet gun he claimed he would shoot at squirrels; this would freak out most of us, but Winston was apparently unfazed. A few hours later, he got into a BB-gun fight at his apartment complex.

Recently, Winston stood on a table in the campus union and yelled a vulgar phrase that has been an Internet meme. This was a bigger deal than it normally would have been because he is the Heisman Trophy winner, not some frat pledge acting on a dare, and it was an even bigger deal because of all the other stupid stuff he has done. He seems to major in mischief. Florida State suspended Winston for half the Clemson game, then the whole thing. Jameis being Jameis, he warmed up in full pads before the game anyway. Hahaha.

The second accusation against Jameis Winston is that he raped a woman.

We are conflating the two, and this is a problem. All of the silly stuff Winston has done clouds the very serious allegation against him. We make jokes and wonder why he does one ridiculous thing after another -- with the nation watching and a multi-million-dollar NFL career at stake. And partly because the crab-leg jokes are safe to make, we talk more about the little mistakes he definitely made and less about the incredibly serious accusation that was never properly resolved.

As he hunts for another national championship, Winston faces a campus hearing into the sexual assault he was accused of committing in December 2012. Winston was never charged with a crime, and some would argue that this means Winston was innocent. Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher is one of those people. He said this weekend: “There is not a victim because there was no crime.”

Fisher and many others miss the point. Whatever happened on the night in question, there was never a real chance of Winston being charged, because the investigation into Winston was botched from the beginning. This seemed clear last December and has become more obvious since. “Botched” might be too kind, actually. The investigation fell somewhere between blatantly half-hearted and deliberately mishandled. (This has been covered in many places, but start here if you need to get caught up.)

Proving sexual assault in the court system is notoriously difficult; proving it under these circumstances was impossible, even if it did occur. Now Winston faces a campus hearing into four possible violations of the school’s student code. Predictably, the accuser has already been smeared by those who have examined the facts of the case and concluded that they love watching Winston play football.

It’s not my place to guess whether he is guilty or not. But because authorities bungled the investigation, this is his accuser’s only chance at a fair hearing of her charge.

That is the Winston story that really matters, but in the strange life and times of Jameis Winston, it’s never just about one story. This week, another little misdeed emerged. Winston may or may not have been paid for his autograph, an NCAA violation that would render him ineligible.

In a weird, twisted way, this autograph accusation hurts the cause of rape survivors. Confused? Follow along.

Winston may get popped by the NCAA for selling his own autograph. Now, only an organization as congenitally controlling as the NCAA would think it owns the rights to somebody else’s autograph. Only the NCAA is so institutionally delusional as to think it could stop a college kid from trying to make a little easy money. In the minds of much of America, especially the public opinion-drivers who write and talk about these things for a living, the NCAA has no business regulating a college player’s autograph sales.

Georgia makes a bunch of money selling Todd Gurley jerseys and the NCAA nods and winks, but when Gurley is accused of selling his own handwriting, he gets suspended. This makes Gurley a victim. And by extension, if Winston gets dinged for the same offense, he would also be a victim.

But the idea of Winston as any kind of victim is dangerous, because that other case is a lot more serious. The mind gets jumbled when it thinks of a man as both victim and predator. It also gets jumbled when we think of a man as both serial knucklehead and potential rapist. But maybe we should not be so worried about the effect of Winston’s actions on his football career, and wonder more about the effect on the woman who has accused him of rape.
 

phgreek

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Totally disagree. Everyone is acting like a Winstonless FSU victory will be looked just the same as a Syracuse victory. It wont be. It is a top 5 victory against a team, regardless of our game, will most likely win the ACC. The "it wont mean the same" arguments aren't really logical, as it simply isn't true. I don't care if they suspend FSU's top 5 players... the victory is still a win. The only downside to the game is if we lose, period.

So ...when Condie and co sit down at the end of the season...that won't come up?

I don't think it affects ND ...assuming ND remains among the Power 5 undefeated teams...

There are myriad of circumstances that has a 1 loss ND team under the microscope...and the Quality of that FSU win is Huge in that circumstance.

given the committee...I think what is bereft of logic is claiming it doesn't matter, Period.
 

ACamp1900

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If ND is undefeated at the end of the year, it won't matter who played or didn't play in whichever games... the discussion with the committee will be as short as... "ND is in... next"

If ND only has one loss... at this point, I think ND has a good shot at getting in too... I mean the way the season is looking there prob. won't be an undefeated team in the country (excluding Marshall) if the ND/FSU winner stumbles later, and there really may not be that many one loss teams either...
 

ACamp1900

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Also, on Marshall, I don't know if it's right that they won't get in regardless, but unless there are only three 1 loss teams in the country and no other undefeated teams I think the reality is they really have no chance, even under those circumstances I'd see a two loss Pac or SEC team getting in...
 

phgreek

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If ND is undefeated at the end of the year, it won't matter who played or didn't play in whichever games... the discussion with the committee will be as short as... "ND is in... next"

If ND only has one loss... at this point, I think ND has a good shot at getting in too... I mean the way the season is looking there prob. won't be an undefeated team in the country (excluding Marshall) if the ND/FSU winner stumbles later, and there really may not be that many one loss teams either...

totally agree...(the 1 loss thing becomes more possible every week) but with a loss I believe an FSU win gets looked at real hard....and Winston's presence will be a factor in evaluating that W.
 

phgreek

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Also, on Marshall, I don't know if it's right that they won't get in regardless, but unless there are only three 1 loss teams in the country and no other undefeated teams I think the reality is they really have no chance, even under those circumstances I'd see a two loss Pac or SEC team getting in...

I think 2L Conference champ > undefeated minion
 

ACamp1900

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I would honestly rather have Marshall in there myself... but that doesn't mean i think it will happen.
 

irishfan

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I'd take any 3-loss Power-5 team in there over Marshall.

They're a good story, but they play no one all year. Just looking at their schedule, it looks like Akron, Rice, and Middle Tennessee State are their 3 toughest games. Michigan might legitimately go undefeated with that schedule (Michigan and Marshall have one common opponent, and Michigan beat them by more).

If they had played the non-conference schedule of East Carolina (Va Tech, UNC, South Carolina), I'd say Marshall is deserving at 12-0, but they just haven't done that. I know they can only play who is on their schedule, but they still haven't proven they belong in the discussion IMO
 
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ACamp1900

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I hear all that... I'd still like to give them a shot if there are no other undefeated teams, I mean wasn't the the whole point of this stupid playoff???
 

greyhammer90

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I hear all that... I'd still like to give them a shot if there are no other undefeated teams, I mean wasn't the the whole point of this stupid playoff???

No. The point was to widen the postseason field from two teams to four teams so that it was less likely that a deserving team would be left out by pollster error/bias.

It would be very hard to argue error or bias if a committee decided that Marshall was not one of the best four teams in the country. If Marshall wished to combat this mindset, they could have scheduled a top 10 (or even 25) team to play.
 

Blaise

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In 2012 I wasn't upset when Barkley was hurt.. I was pumped.. Why? Win and go to the Title game!!!! Going undefeated gurantees we go to the playoff.. We win a game there or win the NC and we get respect.... No one cares if you lose a hard fought game to FSU week 7...

Playoffs is all that matters... You win respect there
 

irish1958

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The argument that they can only play the teams on their schedule so if they are undefeated they deserve to be in is not valid. As noted above, if they want to be considered, they must play at least an average schedule. The athlets know, when they go to these schools, that their schedules are a joke. If they want to be on a team that is in consideration for the tournament they must pick a better school. If the AD wants to be considered, he or she must arrange a better schedule.
What could be more fair?
 

gkIrish

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Out of curiosity, let's the say the game was played once with Jameis and once without. Would you guys agree that this is a fair allocation of the odds each of these potential outcomes is the result? Let's assume we aren't going to blow out FSU under either scenario.

A) Jameis plays and we get blown out (45%)
B) Jameis plays and we lose close (45%)
C) Jameis plays and we win (10%)


C) Jameis does not play and we get blown out (10%)
D) Jameis does not play and we lose close (60%)
E) Jameis does not play and we win (30%)
 
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