Sept 22 | Wake Forest

[zelezo vlk]

I would seriously line up both Book and BK in the RZ... direct snap to either. That would F with Ds hard.

That's so dumb. No self respecting defense is gonna be scared of a 5'8 50 something Irishman.

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[ickythump1225]

Can't see Book starting this game. He changes the whole dynamic of the offense. Some in good ways and others not so much. With two teams coming up soon who can get after the QB, I don't know if Book has enough mobility to offset Stanford and Va Tech's rush. Get up on WF early and let him play some but changing QBs at this point will not help BW's confidence at all.

Yeah but he's capable of completing more than 3 passes in a row, more than once a game too. He's also not a statue. Book is pretty mobile.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'd use Book between the 10s..

He's been pretty successful on the goal line too. Wasn't there a stat a week or two ago that 75% of his handoffs resulted in TDs? Maybe teams respect his arm enough that they're expecting the pass and it helps open up the run game.

 

[ickythump1225]

I'd love to see some tricky plays from this. Wimbush in the backfield, takes the handoff, throws to a receiver on a go route...

The pass sails high and wide for an incompletion.

 

[Irish YJ]

That's so dumb. No self respecting defense is gonna be scared of a 5'8 50 something Irishman.

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lol.. fear the gut

He's been pretty successful on the goal line too. Wasn't there a stat a week or two ago that 75% of his handoffs resulted in TDs? Maybe teams respect his arm enough that they're expecting the pass and it helps open up the run game.

likely because they feared his arm... I'll take it.

 

[Junkhead]

My problem with Wimbush, along with the inconsistency, is his demeanor. Maybe it's when the TV cameras catch him, but he always looks like he's a kid who just got grounded. The way he often mopes around on the field makes me wonder if he can be any kind of a leader. That said, how many of us couldn't wait for him to be the answer when Kizer struggled? Wait for Wimbush...wait for Book....wait for Jurkovic? Playcalling is all over the place, and the offense isn't clicking, for whatever reason.

 

[ND88]

My problem with Wimbush, along with the inconsistency, is his demeanor. Maybe it's when the TV cameras catch him, but he always looks like he's a kid who just got grounded. The way he often mopes around on the field makes me wonder if he can be any kind of a leader.

No offense, but I just don’t see this at all and I think it’s an unfair criticism. He’s done nothing but represent the team and the University well on and off the field. I’m all for Book getting an opportunity to show what he’s got, but the collective memory is way too short on all the positives that Brandon Wimbush offers the team and the school. If the criticism is in his inconsistent play, then fine. But calling him out for looking mopey on the screen is really stretching it as far as judging his leadership skills. He makes mistakes, but he plays hard for Notre Dame and acknowledges his shortcomings.

 

[Luckylucci]

Very interested to see how this plays out. Does Wimbush play at all? Does he become the RZ QB? Lots of questions, intrigued for Saturday.

I’m all for it if coaches think it’s best, but I don’t really get why you start him. Just like I don’t get why he’s the RZ QB, this all seems a little backwards to me. I’d come out hot like we have in every game then when we go to the more conservative game plan, put in Book.

Side note, what happens if we win but he plays like he did against UNC? Is that enough to keep the job?

 

[ND88]

Very interested to see how this plays out. Does Wimbush play at all? Does he become the RZ QB? Lots of questions, intrigued for Saturday.

I’m all for it if coaches think it’s best, but I don’t really get why you start him. Just like I don’t get why he’s the RZ QB, this all seems a little backwards to me. I’d come out hot like we have in every game then when we go to the more conservative game plan, put in Book.

Side note, what happens if we win but he plays like he did against UNC? Is that enough to keep the job?

If BK is so cavalier about pulling Wimbush for the start, there’s good reason to believe this could just be a strategy to make game planning more difficult for Stanford. I think Kelly sees a defense in Wake that can be chewed apart and views this as a game for Book to play well in and develop some meaningful and sustained drives for game film. I’d be surprised if Wimbush isn’t in on all of this, as he has stated multiple times that he will do anything for the win. Besides, Book is his roommate. I personally think all the hype is overblown, and Kelly will play it loose with how he utilizes both QBs, because he believes he has a good grasp on their dispositions and strengths.

 

[NDdomer2]

If BK is so cavalier about pulling Wimbush for the start, there’s good reason to believe this could just be a strategy to make game planning more difficult for Stanford. I think Kelly sees a defense in Wake that can be chewed apart and views this as a game for Book to play well in and develop some meaningful and sustained drives for game film. I’d be surprised if Wimbush isn’t in on all of this, as he has stated multiple times that he will do anything for the win. Besides, Book is his roommate. I personally think all the hype is overblown, and Kelly will play it loose with how he utilizes both QBs, because he believes he has a good grasp on their dispositions and strengths.

Conspiracy much?

I just don't see a coach with playoff aspirations suddenly pulling their 15 game starter for a kid who has 10 plays on the season, in an attempt to fuxk with a future opponent.

 

[Irishize]

Very interested to see how this plays out. Does Wimbush play at all? Does he become the RZ QB? Lots of questions, intrigued for Saturday.

I’m all for it if coaches think it’s best, but I don’t really get why you start him. Just like I don’t get why he’s the RZ QB, this all seems a little backwards to me. I’d come out hot like we have in every game then when we go to the more conservative game plan, put in Book.

Side note, what happens if we win but he plays like he did against UNC? Is that enough to keep the job?

If Book plays like he did vs UNC, they will lose. I know WF’s defense is supposedly bad (yet they’ll find a pass rush this Sat you just watch), but they can score points. UNC was a train wreck last year (and this year)...worse team on the schedule last year (and this year).

 

[ND88]

Conspiracy much?

I just don't see a coach with playoff aspirations suddenly pulling their 15 game starter for a kid who has 10 plays on the season, in an attempt to fuxk with a future opponent.

Or possibly just a theory? I also think it’s easy to discredit Book’s role in ending our last season with a positive sense of momentum. That doesn’t mean he started the season, but Kelly knows what he has and will play both if he needs to. We’ve already seen it this season, even at odd times in the redzone. And yeah, Book is due for some game reps. I guess we’ll find out who is sporting the tinfoil sooner than later.

 

[NDdomer2]

Or possibly just a theory? I also think it’s easy to discredit Book’s role in ending our last season with a positive sense of momentum. That doesn’t mean he started the season, but Kelly knows what he has and will play both if he needs to. We’ve already seen it this season, even at odd times in the redzone. And yeah, Book is due for some game reps. I guess we’ll find out who is sporting the tinfoil sooner than later.

Getting him reps and meaningful snaps or even potentially a permanent change =/= "there’s good reason to believe this could just be a strategy to make game planning more difficult for Stanford" and "I’d be surprised if Wimbush isn’t in on all of this"

 

[dad4aa]

I don’t get all the hype on Book. While I think he is a great guy and very capable at leading ND, his only full game last year was meh. While he played great, the LSU game winning drive was because of an amazing catch and run by Boykin not a fabulous pass by Book. One of the last drives against Vandy Book held the ball when chased from the pocket for a 3-yard loss rather than throw it away (a common complaint about BW), in the final scoring drive his 3rd down pass in the RZ to Weishar was high and not in stride preventing him from picking up the first down and his 2-yard TD pass to a wide open Weishar was also high. Let’s not act like he will come in and tear it up. He is 62% career with a 5-4 TD/INT ratio. Hopefully he comes in and plays like LSU last year and not UNC and we are in great shape going into Stanford.

 

[arrowryan]

I don’t get all the hype on Book. While I think he is a great guy and very capable at leading ND, his only full game last year was meh. While he played great, the LSU game winning drive was because of an amazing catch and run by Boykin not a fabulous pass by Book. One of the last drives against Vandy Book held the ball when chased from the pocket for a 3-yard loss rather than throw it away (a common complaint about BW), in the final scoring drive his 3rd down pass in the RZ to Weishar was high and not in stride preventing him from picking up the first down and his 2-yard TD pass to a wide open Weishar was also high. Let’s not act like he will come in and tear it up. He is 62% career with a 5-4 TD/INT ratio. Hopefully he comes in and plays like LSU last year and not UNC and we are in great shape going into Stanford.

Ian Book's one and only start was almost a year ago, I'm confident in saying that I'm sure he's improved since then. I'm not saying that he's going to throw for 400 yards and 4 touchdowns, but we definitely need to see what we have in the passing game with Book. I think we've already seen Wimbush's ceiling in the passing game and it isn't good. I think Book is going to have success throwing it and it'll be refreshing not seeing a defense stacking the box and having to respect the pass.

To the bolded, this sounds like knit picking to me. Ian Book had a 3 yard loss? Lets not lie to ourselves, if it was Wimbush he would've tried to reverse field and the 3 yard loss would've turned into a 15 yard loss. The first throw to Weishar, Wimbush probably would've thrown it at his feet. The touchdown throw was high? Lol Weishar barely had to leave his feet. I'm not saying his throws were perfect, but they were far from bad.

In 3 passing attempts, Ian Book has the same amount of passing touchdowns as Wimbush (42 attempts).

 

[NDdomer2]

Ian Book's one and only start was almost a year ago, I'm confident in saying that I'm sure he's improved since then. I'm not saying that he's going to throw for 400 yards and 4 touchdowns, but we definitely need to see what we have in the passing game with Book. I think we've already seen Wimbush's ceiling in the passing game and it isn't good. I think Book is going to have success throwing it and it'll be refreshing not seeing a defense stacking the box and having to respect the pass.

To the bolded, this sounds like knit picking to me. Ian Book had a 3 yard loss? Lets not lie to ourselves, if it was Wimbush he would've tried to reverse field and the 3 yard loss would've turned into a 15 yard loss. The first throw to Weishar, Wimbush probably would've thrown it at his feet. The touchdown throw was high? Lol Weishar barely had to leave his feet. I'm not saying his throws were perfect, but they were far from bad.

In 3 passing attempts, Ian Book has the same amount of passing touchdowns as Wimbush (42 attempts).

I guess, I just dont see why they couldnt still stack the box? It's already well documented here Book doesnt have the arm strength BW has, so why would a team be forced to keep additional people on the perimeter or deep?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I think that, with this defense, Ian will be a good guy for the job from a "game-management" pov. However, if he were to "fail". I'd be curious to see who "fans" would turn to next. Phil, Scout Team, Jurkovec? People need to quit hating as much on the QB as much as the coach... This isn't Kelly's first rodeo with under performing QBs...Only one constant variable I see.

 

[koonja]

To Junkhead's point, Wimbush looks like he's working a 9-5 job out there. He's never amping up his teammates, or picking guys up with his play.

Book comes in like he was just given a gift and he oozes excitement. That's a QB other players step it up for IMO. Not to mention, a passing game would be pretty neat.

 

[calvegas04]

I guess, I just dont see why they couldnt still stack the box? It's already well documented here Book doesnt have the arm strength BW has, so why would a team be forced to keep additional people on the perimeter or deep?

Book can still throw deep, he just throws it more accurately

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

To Junkhead's point, Wimbush looks like he's working a 9-5 job out there. He's never amping up his teammates, or picking guys up with his play.

Book comes in like he was just given a gift and he oozes excitement. That's a QB other players step it up for IMO. Not to mention, a passing game would be pretty neat.

This is absolutely not true. He was fired the fuck up against Michigan. Bouncing around, laughing, celebrating, etc. Additionally. he got in the face / shoved a dline on BSU that took a cheap shot at Kraemer. Saying he has played without emotion is simply false.

 

[Irish#1]

Yeah. Fine to give Book a few legitimate series, instead of just this goal line business. I dunno about starting him though.
Wake has probably the weakest defense we’ve played yet. Seems like a good opponent for Wimbush to build up some much needed confidence ahead of two big tests to come.

Didn't we say the same thing about BSU? lol

 

[OhioIrish31]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ll say this about the QB situation. If Notre Dame goes with Ian Book moving forward it’s both ballsy and refreshing.<br><br>Not enough teams willing to make a change without the impetus of a loss. Shouldn’t be that way. Make a decision opposed to having the decision made for you.</p>— Pete Sampson (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1042916477433794561?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 20, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yawn. This is like Kate Jackson and Jaclyn Smith fighting over who's the best looking Angel.

5 Star Phil's team going forward. The only questions are:

Is he regression proof?

How many seasons will he get under Joe Moorhead?

It's Farrah...and not close!

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I don’t think anyone thinks Book is the second coming of Joe Montana, but you can certainly see when he’s gotten in the game he’s much more decisive and confident with the offense. Wimbush is an amazing athlete, he just hasn’t been a great QB yet. I think Book is more than capable of leading this team.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Didn't we say the same thing about BSU? lol

And against BSU, the oline was a joke.

Also, on the flip side, I think Wake is the perfect opponent to work Ian in and get some "full-tme reps".
1) If he kicks butt, he could become the guy.
2) Provides Brandon some physical rest.
3) Gives him experience for "bigger games" coming up, if Brandon does start, he won't be coming in "cold".

There's more advantages, I'm sure. But with Wake's weak pass D consider too, this move makes great sense imo.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

Honestly If Book starts I give Kelly credit for having some balls finally. The way I look at it No way in hell we beat Stanford with Wimbush at QB their defense is too good they'll load up the box force him to throw. Give book an easy test against Wake to get him ready against Stanford in Prime time. Hey i'll take a QB who is accurate from 5-7 yards compared to one who can't hit anyone open past 20 yards

 

[dad4aa]

Ian Book's one and only start was almost a year ago, I'm confident in saying that I'm sure he's improved since then. I'm not saying that he's going to throw for 400 yards and 4 touchdowns, but we definitely need to see what we have in the passing game with Book. I think we've already seen Wimbush's ceiling in the passing game and it isn't good. I think Book is going to have success throwing it and it'll be refreshing not seeing a defense stacking the box and having to respect the pass.

To the bolded, this sounds like knit picking to me. Ian Book had a 3 yard loss? Lets not lie to ourselves, if it was Wimbush he would've tried to reverse field and the 3 yard loss would've turned into a 15 yard loss. The first throw to Weishar, Wimbush probably would've thrown it at his feet. The touchdown throw was high? Lol Weishar barely had to leave his feet. I'm not saying his throws were perfect, but they were far from bad.

In 3 passing attempts, Ian Book has the same amount of passing touchdowns as Wimbush (42 attempts).

Everything you say is conjecture and just ridiculous. I think Book is a much better passer than Wimbush but everyone complains about BW‘s accuracy when Book isnt exactly throwing it a whole lot better. Same with my exclamation for people getting on BW for not throwing the ball away, Book did the exact same thing so don’t expect a huge improvement in game management. As for the bolded, that just shows how ridiculous your argument is. Book comes in when we are in what Kelly calls the blue zone… Inside the 5 yard line. Of course he has a better chance of throwing a touchdown pass with every attempt versus throwing a pass from his own 20 yard line.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Honestly If Book starts I give Kelly credit for having some balls finally. The way I look at it No way in hell we beat Stanford with Wimbush at QB their defense is too good they'll load up the box force him to throw. Give book an easy test against Wake to get him ready against Stanford in Prime time. Hey i'll take a QB who is accurate from 5-7 yards compared to one who can't hit anyone open past 20 yards

What does this mean? It's not like this is the first time he's pulled a QB lol.

 

[dad4aa]

Game management will be a whole lot better one Long starts calling a better game plan. I think that should be this weekend because his game plan does seem to work better toward Book’s strengths then to Brandon’s strengths.

 

[NDdomer2]

Book can still throw deep, he just throws it more accurately

he throws it more accurately, period or he throws the deep ball more accurately?

It's too bad there isnt any real good articles out there analytically comparing these two. I.E. breaking down just deep throws, or just RPO's, etc.

just some personal opinion pieces like this:
https://www.onefootdown.com/2018/9/20/17884838/notre-dame-football-stop-calling-for-brandon-wimbush-to-be-benched-fighting-irish

Wimbush for his career is 181-356 (50.8%) for 2,476 yards 17 TD's and 10 Int
Book is 49-78 (62.8%) for 469 yards 5 TD's and 4 int (think what his stat line would be like if he didnt have the couple gimme TD's thrown this year, yuck)

If we extrapolate for direct comparison: 224-356 2,141 Yards 23 TD's and 18 Int

If you did the blind test on that I'm not sure QB #2 would win in a land slide. sure completion percentage is big change but QB#1 has more yards, and almost half the turnovers.

The one thing I do agree in the article above on is neither of these guys are likely taking the Irish to the promise land. Wimbush has too many throwing issues and Book isnt dynamic enough.

ND isn't some Bama like juggernaut that can afford to have below extraordinary QB play. Hell even very good Clemson teams with Watson couldn't beat Bama in some years.

Wimbush is closest thing we have to a QB who is that dynamic, he just isn't proficient enough throwing the football.

But 12-3 as a starter is damn good and hard to complain about, imo.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

What does this mean? It's not like this is the first time he's pulled a QB lol.

AKA playing Joe Schmidt over Nyles Morgan