Sept 22 | Wake Forest

[RDU Irish]

We are 3-0 and ranked No. 8 in the country. Isn’t it a little early for “wait til next year?”

Amen! We get a serviceable offense going and we can run this table. Next three weeks will define this season's ceiling and plenty of room to recover afterward for a NY6 bowl if we stumble.

 

[Irishman77]

Like Pete Sampson said yesterday, I'm glad the staff is realizing they have an issue while still being 3-0 and not waiting until they lose to address the issue.

Half the fan base seen the obvious last year. Anyone that thinks Kelly is forward thinking has dull senses.

 

[OhioIrish31]

Quickest way to a loss is to be concentrating on a future opponent and not your next one. I doubt BK is doing anything except trying to improve the offense regardless of who the opponent is.

Book doesn't have the arm strength of BW, but being able to complete the short and intermediate routes will keep the LB's and safeties from staying close to the LOS, which should help the running game. Then he can take his shot downfield.

If Book does start, he has to start the rest of the season. This team will never find an offensive flow if BK plays musical chairs with the QB position.

I agree with this. I also think it won't go well if we always trot BW out when we want to run and trot IB out when we want to pass...way too easy to defend that.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Irish take the kick-off at the 25 yard line -



Book runs the offense on the first 11 plays -



Jafar runs the ball for 9 carries 55 yards -



Book throws for 1-2 for 11 yards -



Book throws touchdown on roll-out to right to TE for 9 yard TD -





Half of IE posters:


"We got us a QB"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Irish take the kick-off at the 25 yard line -

Half of IE posters:


"We got us a QB"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2nd drive:

3&out - "oh no, we suck again!"

 

[Dizzyphil]

2nd drive:

3&out - "oh no, we suck again!"

 

[GrangerIrish24]

I'm hoping Brandon throws 5 tds in the first half then pulls a Vontae Davis in the locker room at halftime.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm hoping Brandon throws 5 tds in the first half then pulls a Vontae Davis in the locker room at halftime.

At least the QB position will be settled. You may not like the results but it will be settled!

 

[snoopdog]

Couple of points

1. Watching the Blue Gold game this spring I couldn’t buy the narrative that Wimbush had outplayed Book and was clearly the better QB. In fact my eye saw quite the opposite.

2. The blame on the WR’s so far this season is really an extension of the blame from last year. I think we will see that the WR’s are a whole lot better if they get a full game from Book against WF

 

[Wild Bill]

Second half we totaled 68 yards of offense on six possession (excluding the V formation 7th possession). 4 of six possessions were 3 or 4 and out. A fifth was a six play drive totaling 6 yards. 41 yards on a FG drive otherwise Michigan made adjustments and shut us down. 5 possessions totaled 27 yards of offense - good luck putting lipstick on that pig.

Hard to disagree with this. He was given a short field a few times in the second half too, and could have put the game away with another score. So on his best day, he put 24 points on the board, had a mid 50% completion percentage and a rating in the 60s, with one TD and one pick. His best just isn't enough, I'm sorry to say.

I want him to succeed b/c the offense could be incredibly productive if he improves what needs to be improved but it's just not clicking.

 

[Luckylucci]

That win was very much due to the outstanding play of the defense. Yes, he was the best offensive player we had but his one and only score was very lucky.

Then KJ Costello is the luckiest QB in the country and that will surely run out eventually. He was the #47 rated player coming out of HS and at least half of his TD passes are "jump balls". Stanford fans don't seem very concerned about it, weird.

People that are discounting "jump balls" as legitimate, that's fine, but it's huge part of college football. Because DB play is so bad.

 

[NDBoiler]

That's all well and good, but BK/Long not adjusting to BW is a perfect example of why BK will never win a championship.

I’m interested to hear what adjusting to BWs strengths would look like. To me it seems it would be pretty one dimensional and predictable that average to above average teams would be able to defend effectively. Unless you’ve got a truly dominant QB, RB, or O line (which ND has none of), you’ve got to have a credible threat of more than one dimension to your offense.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

I'm getting Vietnam-style flashbacks to benching the athletic but inaccurate Tyrod in favor of Nathan Peterman against the Chargers.

 

[ickythump1225]

Ian Book's one and only start was almost a year ago, I'm confident in saying that I'm sure he's improved since then. I'm not saying that he's going to throw for 400 yards and 4 touchdowns, but we definitely need to see what we have in the passing game with Book. I think we've already seen Wimbush's ceiling in the passing game and it isn't good. I think Book is going to have success throwing it and it'll be refreshing not seeing a defense stacking the box and having to respect the pass.

To the bolded, this sounds like knit picking to me. Ian Book had a 3 yard loss? Lets not lie to ourselves, if it was Wimbush he would've tried to reverse field and the 3 yard loss would've turned into a 15 yard loss. The first throw to Weishar, Wimbush probably would've thrown it at his feet. The touchdown throw was high? Lol Weishar barely had to leave his feet. I'm not saying his throws were perfect, but they were far from bad.

In 3 passing attempts, Ian Book has the same amount of passing touchdowns as Wimbush (42 attempts).

Yeah all of those nits that were picked could just as easily be said about BW but worse.

I guess, I just dont see why they couldnt still stack the box? It's already well documented here Book doesnt have the arm strength BW has, so why would a team be forced to keep additional people on the perimeter or deep?

No QB in history has ever succeeded without high end arm strength.

I think that, with this defense, Ian will be a good guy for the job from a "game-management" pov. However, if he were to "fail". I'd be curious to see who "fans" would turn to next. Phil, Scout Team, Jurkovec? People need to quit hating as much on the QB as much as the coach... This isn't Kelly's first rodeo with under performing QBs...Only one constant variable I see.

I was thinking about this last night. We've had complaints about the QBs since BK stepped on campus. This guy was sold as an offensive guru and a QB whisperer.

To Junkhead's point, Wimbush looks like he's working a 9-5 job out there. He's never amping up his teammates, or picking guys up with his play.

Book comes in like he was just given a gift and he oozes excitement. That's a QB other players step it up for IMO. Not to mention, a passing game would be pretty neat.

I disagree that BW plays without emotion. In fact I think he plays the emotional game well: gets high for the highs, but never lets the lows get to him too much. He's not Tom Brady or Brett Favre but he's not a drone out there. Kizer and Golson were more stoic than BW.

 

[ickythump1225]

How about “Our schedule isn’t as daunting as we thought pre-season! Too bad (insert team/coaching deficiency here) couldn’t get it done/so and so was suspended”. I think that has been the case basically every year under Kelly except for 2012.

The Kelly era is riddled with a long line of quarterbacks that were supposed to be “the guy”. Maybe the staff should focus on developing a lights out defense and an offense that relies less on the QB?

We were on our way to that last year and thought we had turned the corner from BK's 12 year old playing Madden offense. I was wrong.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Just wait until ̶G̶o̶l̶s̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶Z̶a̶i̶r̶e̶,̶ ̶K̶i̶z̶e̶r̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶s̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶,̶ ̶W̶i̶m̶b̶u̶s̶h̶ Book. Next is Phil. We have been waiting for BK's QB for 9 seasons. I'm with you on less QB reliance.

Give it a few more years and it will be like this....

Take it from an Bama fan... of you recruit enough QBs eventually decades later you find one that's pretty good.

Let's hope Book, Phil, BW, or a player to be named later finally hits for your Irish.

 

[NDdomer2]

No QB in history has ever succeeded without high end arm strength.

show me where i said he couldnt succeed?

 

[Ndaccountant]

I’m interested to hear what adjusting to BWs strengths would look like. To me it seems it would be pretty one dimensional and predictable that average to above average teams would be able to defend effectively. Unless you’ve got a truly dominant QB, RB, or O line (which ND has none of), you’ve got to have a credible threat of more than one dimension to your offense.

Tempo, simple route system, consisting of one or two reads max. One vertical, one mid-range and if nothing is there, bolt. There is a reason why we are good coming out of the gate this year and it has everything to do with pace and simplicity.

 

[dad4aa]

Tempo, simple route system, consisting of one or two reads max. One vertical, one mid-range and if nothing is there, bolt. There is a reason why we are good coming out of the gate this year and it has everything to do with pace and simplicity.

^This. Reps

 

[Irish#1]

BK needs to decide if this offense is better off with Wimbush or Book and it's time to sh!t or get off the pot. No two QB system or RZ QB. It's not working. As the old saying goes, when you have two QB's you don't have a QB. Yes, there are some examples where two QB's worked, but it's rare and rarely works.

BW is not going to get any better. He is what he is. He now has a season under his belt, had QB coaching in the off-season, had the winter workouts, spring work-outs, summer work-outs, fall camp and three games. There's some improvement, but it's marginal at best. BW is a great player and teammate, but he's not capable of revving up the offense and it appears BK has come to that realization.

 

[dad4aa]

BK needs to decide if this offense is better off with Wimbush or Book and it's time to sh!t or get off the pot. No two QB system or RZ QB. It's not working. As the old saying goes, when you have two QB's you don't have a QB. Yes, there are some examples where two QB's worked, but it's rare and rarely works.

BW is not going to get any better. He is what he is. He now has a season under his belt, had QB coaching in the off-season, had the winter workouts, spring work-outs, summer work-outs, fall camp and three games. There's some improvement, but it's marginal at best. BW is a great player and teammate, but he's not capable of revving up the offense and it appears BK has come to that realization.

I agree with most of this, just not the bolded part...and you may be right. I think it is more like Ndaccountant said, call plays to his strength. I think he could be very successful with a different offense, less pocket passing and more rollouts where he can use his running ability if needed. Simple route system that would utilize his arm strength with a deep and mid/short route and then run if they are covered. No more of these WR screen passes. Go vertical not horizontal.

 

[irishog77]

Then KJ Costello is the luckiest QB in the country and that will surely run out eventually. He was the #47 rated player coming out of HS and at least half of his TD passes are "jump balls". Stanford fans don't seem very concerned about it, weird.

People that are discounting "jump balls" as legitimate, that's fine, but it's huge part of college football. Because DB play is so bad.

Are you on a nationwide tour promoting this? You bring this up a sh!t ton on IE. Are you in a basement somewhere charting plays?

It's a part of college football because coaches have their QB's and WR's practice it, WR's are generally taller/bigger than DB's, and the rules favor offense over defense. It's not simply because college DB's suck. And coaches generally draw up those types of play near the sideline, or deep down the middle of the field (ala Charlie Weis), in one-on-one coverage where the receiver's catch radius is widened.

You'd be hard pressed to find any football coach, anywhere, that thinks throwing a little short on a deep pass, in the middle of the field, to a 5'9" receiver that is double covered is ever a good idea. Coaches simply don't run that play, at least not by design.

It worked though. ND got lucky. Wimbush threw a TD and ND won the game. We're all glad.

That's not the same as getting a 6'4" WR isolated down the middle of the field or down the side and throwing one up that either the WR catches, the WR is interfered with, or the pass is incomplete/out of bounds. Those plays we do see routinely.

Stop trying to pretend Wimbush to Finke against michigan was one of those plays.

 

[NDBoiler]

Tempo, simple route system, consisting of one or two reads max. One vertical, one mid-range and if nothing is there, bolt. There is a reason why we are good coming out of the gate this year and it has everything to do with pace and simplicity.

I really want what you said to be true, and if this is a system BW can consistently execute successfully and BK is not trying to make that adjustment, then that is a major mistake on the coaches’ part. The other possibility is that BW hasn’t proven in practice that he can do that consistently, thus it leads to giving Book a chance instead. I have seen enough of BWs mid range and vertical passing to know that that isn’t a strength of his though, and if that leads to him running a lot, he’s not going to last 2/3 of a season taking consistent hits.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Are you on a nationwide tour promoting this? You bring this up a sh!t ton on IE. Are you in a basement somewhere charting plays?

It's a part of college football because coaches have their QB's and WR's practice it, WR's are generally taller/bigger than DB's, and the rules favor offense over defense. It's not simply because college DB's suck. And coaches generally draw up those types of play near the sideline, or deep down the middle of the field (ala Charlie Weis), in one-on-one coverage where the receiver's catch radius is widened.

You'd be hard pressed to find any football coach, anywhere, that thinks throwing a little short on a deep pass, in the middle of the field, to a 5'9" receiver that is double covered is ever a good idea. Coaches simply don't run that play, at least not by design.

It worked though. ND got lucky. Wimbush threw a TD and ND won the game. We're all glad.

That's not the same as getting a 6'4" WR isolated down the middle of the field or down the side and throwing one up that either the WR catches, the WR is interfered with, or the pass is incomplete/out of bounds. Those plays we do see routinely.

Stop trying to pretend Wimbush to Finke against michigan was one of those plays.

Dude, why are you so defensive? Lol.

Brandon put the ball where his WR was able to make a play. His WR made a great play. ND got a TD. All is well, my friend.

 

[RDU Irish]

Got my tix - I'll the the guy making his six year old do push-ups all day. Can't believe how many tickets are out there - looks like a beautiful day for football (if the scattered showers stay away in the second half). Can't wait for the Book Club.

 

[Luckylucci]

Are you on a nationwide tour promoting this? You bring this up a sh!t ton on IE. Are you in a basement somewhere charting plays?

It's a part of college football because coaches have their QB's and WR's practice it, WR's are generally taller/bigger than DB's, and the rules favor offense over defense. It's not simply because college DB's suck. And coaches generally draw up those types of play near the sideline, or deep down the middle of the field (ala Charlie Weis), in one-on-one coverage where the receiver's catch radius is widened.

You'd be hard pressed to find any football coach, anywhere, that thinks throwing a little short on a deep pass, in the middle of the field, to a 5'9" receiver that is double covered is ever a good idea. Coaches simply don't run that play, at least not by design.

It worked though. ND got lucky. Wimbush threw a TD and ND won the game. We're all glad.

That's not the same as getting a 6'4" WR isolated down the middle of the field or down the side and throwing one up that either the WR catches, the WR is interfered with, or the pass is incomplete/out of bounds. Those plays we do see routinely.

Stop trying to pretend Wimbush to Finke against michigan was one of those plays.

I'm not pretending anything, it was a 50-50 ball that the WR made a play on. I said if you want to call it lucky, FINE, have at it. Then there is a lot of luck happening weekly in college football, from good teams. It happens all the time. I just used Stanford as an example because of the boards familiarity with them. Just because a WR is taller, doesn't make it any less of a "jump" ball or 50-50 ball.

 

[NDdomer2]

Got my tix - I'll the the guy making his six year old do push-ups all day. Can't believe how many tickets are out there - looks like a beautiful day for football (if the scattered showers stay away in the second half). Can't wait for the Book Club.

be careful, the one thing i have seen the ushers actually put a stop to is the crowd pushups.

 

[ND88]

To Junkhead's point, Wimbush looks like he's working a 9-5 job out there. He's never amping up his teammates, or picking guys up with his play.

Book comes in like he was just given a gift and he oozes excitement. That's a QB other players step it up for IMO. Not to mention, a passing game would be pretty neat.

I’m all for Book getting his shot, but this crap of dragging down Wimbush as a leader is absolute junk.

 

[snoopdog]

I’m all for Book getting his shot, but this crap of dragging down Wimbush as a leader is absolute junk.

I do wonder if the Alabama boards were saying this about replacing Hurts with Tua

 

[ND88]

Quickest way to a loss is to be concentrating on a future opponent and not your next one. I doubt BK is doing anything except trying to improve the offense regardless of who the opponent is.

Book doesn't have the arm strength of BW, but being able to complete the short and intermediate routes will keep the LB's and safeties from staying close to the LOS, which should help the running game. Then he can take his shot downfield.

If Book does start, he has to start the rest of the season. This team will never find an offensive flow if BK plays musical chairs with the QB position.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of team strategy, but not of Book’s talent and ability. It’s a coach’s job to know what he has ahead, not the players. Kelly has the experience to be able to balance more. Unless Wimbush has radically altered Kelly’s view, it’s unlikely that he’s done as starter for the season. Kelly’s already demonstrated a willingness to switch QBs at unorthodox/questionable moments. I think he plays his hand as he see fits, and right now, he has two QBs with very different skill sets who are both mature and driven to help the team. If the team is on board and can adapt, then Kelly will operate accordingly. I’ll leave it at that for now and we’ll just see how the season plays out.