SEC Open Thread

[IRISHDODGER]

Les Miles won a title though, he has a ring. He's also been to another title game. In 15 years Mark Richt has taken loads of 4* and 5* talent and won almost nothing. No team has underachieved more than UGA under Richt. Miles at least has something to hang his hat on for his time in LSU. Richt hasn't won an SEC title in what 14 years? The saddest part is Richt has coached through the Ron Zook and Will Muschamp eras of Florida and the decline of Tennessee thus ensuring their path to Atlanta is paved for them most of the time. They still haven't even been to a title game under Richt.

We can agree to disagree. Richt took over an average to below-average program. Miles inherited a NC ready team. I think he has a better talent base, too...LA>GA IMO. Saban would have won at least 3 titles w/ Miles' talent IMO. Sometimes a little luck helps b/c UGA had some great 2-loss teams (2012?) too.Kudos to his NC, but even LSU fans didn't think they had a chance to be in that game. They backed into it...but give them credit, they won the big game. Their second NCG was argubly more embarrassing than Bama's beatdown over ND. LSU was 13-0 w/ a regular season win at Bama. Then, in the rematch; it took them until the 2nd half before their offense crossed midfield and they never scored a point. How does that happen?

Miles winning pctg at LSU: .786 (.700 in the SEC)
Richt winning pctg at UGA: .738 (.696 in the SEC)

 

[T Town Tommy]

Les Miles won a title though, he has a ring. He's also been to another title game. In 15 years Mark Richt has taken loads of 4* and 5* talent and won almost nothing. No team has underachieved more than UGA under Richt. Miles at least has something to hang his hat on for his time in LSU. Richt hasn't won an SEC title in what 14 years? The saddest part is Richt has coached through the Ron Zook and Will Muschamp eras of Florida and the decline of Tennessee thus ensuring their path to Atlanta is paved for them most of the time. They still haven't even been to a title game under Richt.


There's a difference between saying "have a shot" and being objectively better which is what you seemed to claim. Would Arkansas have a shot against those teams? Yeah but so would a lot of teams. Arkansas had a shot against Alabama but that doesn't make them better than Alabama or even a good team. If Arkansas played in the ACC instead of the SEC you wouldn't feel this way.

If Arkansas played in the ACC they would probably be playing Fla St for the title this week... so yeah, I can feel that way. Even though Arkansas was a "bottom" team in the SEC according to you, my argument was that Arkansas could play and beat a lot of teams that have much better records than them. And yes, their "shot" against Fla St, Ga Tech, TCU, Baylor, K State, etc is tremendously better than I believe you want to give them credit for.

 

[Legacy]

Opinions are fine especially where it comes to how Arkansas would do against other conference teams. Whatever.

Arkansas played the top two teams in the East as well as all their West teams. Putting aside their lackluster 2-6 conference record, let's rank them in the SEC West and East based on head-to-head.

Early in the season Arkansas lost to A&M by 7. I don't count that. Arkansas was a better team by the end of the year than A&M.

Alabama, Mississippi State, Georgia and Missouri all beat Arkansas by 7 pts. Auburn beat them in their first game by 24. The loss to Missouri was their last regular season game. These five teams are better head-to-head.

Arkansas beat LSU by 17 and Ole Miss by 30 - both in November.

Head-to-head, Arkansas would jump LSU (East opponents-Fla,Kent) and Ole Miss (Tenn,Vandy) who had softer East opponents. LSU and Ole Miss played and beat all the other East teams, you may speculate only Georgia and Missouri in the East are better than Arkansas.

So head-to-head I would rank Arkansas as third best in the SEC East and fourth best in the SEC West. Overall, you could rank Arkansas as the sixth best team in the SEC.

Whether there is a drop-off in the SEC West teams after that is also debatable. Head-to-head LSU and Ole Miss are almost the same - a 10-7 win for LSU. Again, both were beaten soundly by Arkansas at the end of the year.

So, with this type of comparison, we end up with the six top teams in the SEC, then the dropoff.

Rankings in the AP/Coaches of LSU and Ole Miss may really reflect their records and SEC scheduling, which hosed the Razorbacks.

 

[ickythump1225]

We can agree to disagree. Richt took over an average to below-average program. Miles inherited a NC ready team. I think he has a better talent base, too...LA>GA IMO. Saban would have won at least 3 titles w/ Miles' talent IMO. Sometimes a little luck helps b/c UGA had some great 2-loss teams (2012?) too.Kudos to his NC, but even LSU fans didn't think they had a chance to be in that game. They backed into it...but give them credit, they won the big game. Their second NCG was argubly more embarrassing than Bama's beatdown over ND. LSU was 13-0 w/ a regular season win at Bama. Then, in the rematch; it took them until the 2nd half before their offense crossed midfield and they never scored a point. How does that happen?

Miles winning pctg at LSU: .786 (.700 in the SEC)
Richt winning pctg at UGA: .738 (.696 in the SEC)

Mark Richt coaches an NC ready team right now and still nothing. If Mark Richt took over for Nick Saban at LSU they wouldn't have another championship you bank on that. Mark Richt could have coached the Trojans dynasty from the early to mid 2000s and still not have won a ring. Mark Richt chokes on the big stage and he breeds that into his program. I don't think you've watched very many Georgia games. It's almost like Richt intentionally loses sometimes his decision making is so horrible. Les Miles makes mistakes of aggression, Mark Richt makes mistakes of aggression, mistakes of hesitation, just blatant f**k ups, etc. And by the way the talent base in GA is just fine. There is a lot of talent in Georgia.

Also your winning percentages there seem to back me up. Miles wins at a better clip with his talent. Richt under performs. Look at the last decade of UGA recruiting and ask yourself how it is possible they never even got to a title game.

 

[Legacy]

Analyzing the SEC non-conference record against Power 5 teams

Analyzing the SEC non-conference record against Power 5 teams

We've got enough factual information to come to some conclusions on this.

The SEC went 5-6 against Power 5 conferences, some of which were teams' usual rivalry games. Every SEC East team played a Power 5 opponent. In the SEC West, A&M, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Vanderbilt did not. So we have ten team's games to look at.

In their losses, I have no disagreement with:
- their four rivalry game losses against the ACC at the end of the year
- Tenn's loss to Oklahoma by 24
I would disregard Missouri's loss to Indiana. At this point, we have the SEC at 0-5.

In their wins, I have no disagreement with:
- Alabama's 10 pt win over West Virginia, Arkansas's 21 point win against Texas Tech, or Georgia's 24 point win over Clemson.
At this point, the SEC is 3-5. Against currently ranked teams, the SEC has one win (vs 18th) and five losses (4th, 11th, 18th, 20th, 21st)

The two games left were close - LSU's 28-24 win against Wisconsin and Auburn's 20-14 win against Kansas State. Both Wisconsin (9th) and Kansas State (13th) are now ranked ahead of LSU (24th) and Auburn (19th).

- In the Auburn-Kansas State game, K-State threw two interceptions including one from the Auburn 2 yard line that bounced off Lockett's pads in the end zone. Auburn'd defense held K-State on three other occasions in the red zone and the K-State kicker missed three field goals (22, 41, 42 yds). The K-State QB also fumbled on their own 21 yard line, which resulted in an Auburn field goal. Head-to-head now, I would expect a Kansas State win.

- In the Wisconsin-LSU game, this was a great comeback by LSU. Both teams's passing offenses are flawed. Against FBS opponents, LSU's is 118th nationally and Wisconsin's is 121st. LSU's passing defense is 3rd nationally, Wisconsin's is 4th. If they played today, it would come down to the rushing game. Wisconsin's 3rd ranked Rushing Offense (349 yds/gm) would go against LSU's 45th ranked rushing defense (152/yds/game). LSU's 35th ranked Rushing Offense (209 yds/gm) would go against Wisconsin's 8th ranked Rushing Defense (108 yds/gm). Nebraska now ranks 12th nationally in Rushing Offense (253 yds/gm). In routing Nebraska 59-24 on November 15th, Wisconsin held Nebraska to 118 yds - 135 yds less than their average.

Close wins are wins. However, if both of these games were played again today, I would put money on Kansas State and Wisconsin.

Speculation on how teams would fare against SEC opponents has been made here. If we were to use these facts as the basis to speculate on head-to-head today, we have two more losses for the SEC. That would be a 3-7 record against Power 5 conference teams.

 

[ickythump1225]

If Arkansas played in the ACC they would probably be playing Fla St for the title this week... so yeah, I can feel that way. Even though Arkansas was a "bottom" team in the SEC according to you, my argument was that Arkansas could play and beat a lot of teams that have much better records than them. And yes, their "shot" against Fla St, Ga Tech, TCU, Baylor, K State, etc is tremendously better than I believe you want to give them credit for.

What convinced you of that, their impressive win over Nicholls St.? Their inability to beat either division winner in their own conference? If they can't be bothered to finish anything but last place in their own division, and didn't beat a single team from the other division in their conference I wouldn't be so bold in crowning them in other conferences.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Mark Richt coaches an NC ready team right now and still nothing. If Mark Richt took over for Nick Saban at LSU they wouldn't have another championship you bank on that. Mark Richt could have coached the Trojans dynasty from the early to mid 2000s and still not have won a ring. Mark Richt chokes on the big stage and he breeds that into his program. I don't think you've watched very many Georgia games. It's almost like Richt intentionally loses sometimes his decision making is so horrible. Les Miles makes mistakes of aggression, Mark Richt makes mistakes of aggression, mistakes of hesitation, just blatant f**k ups, etc. And by the way the talent base in GA is just fine. There is a lot of talent in Georgia.

Also your winning percentages there seem to back me up. Miles wins at a better clip with his talent. Richt under performs. Look at the last decade of UGA recruiting and ask yourself how it is possible they never even got to a title game.

Like I said, agree to disagree. Yes, Richt coaches a ready NC team now...that he built. Georgia hadn't done squat before Richt go there. Even when Dooley was there he only won ONE nat'l title & that was b/c of Hershel Walker IMO. What was Dooley's excuse b/c his other teams were never competing for titles when Walker wasn't there & he had the state of UGA to pluck players from. I'd argue GT has a better history than Georgia...doesn't matter today b/c no one remembers GT being dominant. Miles didn't build shit...Saban did. I wouldn't be so quick to say Richt couldn't have won one at LSU after Saban. After all...Miles did. Miles has had the talent to win at least 4 since he's been there & all they could do was sit back as LSU backed into the BCS NC game. That '06 team should not have had a loss yet they get stuck playing ND in the Sugar Bowl. The '11 team choked on applesauce....horrible game prep before rematching w/ Bama. Yes, Georgia is just fine on talent, but I believe Lousiana is better. I believe LA & MS are 1,2 in most players in the NFL per capita. On another note, I'd want my son to play for Richt over Miles every day of the week.

 

[T Town Tommy]

What convinced you of that, their impressive win over Nicholls St.? Their inability to beat either division winner in their own conference? If they can't be bothered to finish anything but last place in their own division, and didn't beat a single team from the other division in their conference I wouldn't be so bold in crowning them in other conferences.

My last post with you on this one icky.

WATCH FOOTBALL.

I don't really care if Arkansas wins another game this year or next for that matter. But if your only argument with Arkansas is the fact they finished last in their division, nothing I post will change your mind. I think they are more impressive right now than many of the teams I have mentioned in my posts regarding them and would not be shocked one bit if they beat more of those teams than not.

Your arguments seem to center on the fact that all conferences are somehow created equal so therefore by virtue of winning your conference or finished high in your conference standings, then you therefore, by default, would beat a team from another conference who finished lower in their resepective conference. That is ridiculous and either shows your own bias towards conferences, teams, etc or it shows you don't really watch enough football to really understnad matchups, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Fla State. Why do I think a lowly team like Arkansas could beat them? Arkansas is a power run team. They have the ability to run the ball on any defense in the country. I don't think that is in doubt. Fla State has a defense that has been able to be ran against a lot this year. The Seminole front seven would have a tremendously hard time stopping the Razorback run game. The Seminole secondary can be beat and their LBs would be challenged to cover the Razorback TE's. The QB, when healthy, can make enough passes to keep them honest. Fla State would have an advantage on offense only because of JW and their one threat at WR. Arkansas does have a decent cover corner and with a little help from the safety over the top, they could at least slow the WR down. This would mean that the freshman Seminole RB would have to run the ball effectively and Arkansas does have a decent front seven on defense. That leaves JW having to make plays. While he has made plenty of plays this year, the fact that Arkansas can control the ball through their power run game, that leaves JW on the sidelines a lot. This leaves his margin of error while he is on offense at basically zero. And as we have seen the last 3-4 games, he has been sloppy with the ball and pressing to make plays that really aren't there. I like the Razorback chances to create a few turnovers, putting even more pressure on JW. In the end, I don't know who would win the game. But to dismiss Arkansas solely based on where they finished in their division is unwise. They would have a great shot... and I don't think it would suprise many if they actually were to beat Fla St. if were to play. But we won't know this year.

Enjoy.

 

[philipm31]

Jimbo Fisher is a better coach. Their defensive and offensive talent is loads better.

Because they are a power-run team, they might have a chance, if they were to run for over 200 yards.

But I seriously doubt they could do that.

I think that their RB stable would be just as likely to wear down the Hogs, too.

No way they would beat the Noles, but I am reticent to say they could not win Duke's division and theoretically be playing FSU this weekend.

 

[Crazy Balki]

We can agree to disagree. Richt took over an average to below-average program. Miles inherited a NC ready team. I think he has a better talent base, too...LA>GA IMO. Saban would have won at least 3 titles w/ Miles' talent IMO. Sometimes a little luck helps b/c UGA had some great 2-loss teams (2012?) too.Kudos to his NC, but even LSU fans didn't think they had a chance to be in that game. They backed into it...but give them credit, they won the big game. Their second NCG was argubly more embarrassing than Bama's beatdown over ND. LSU was 13-0 w/ a regular season win at Bama. Then, in the rematch; it took them until the 2nd half before their offense crossed midfield and they never scored a point. How does that happen?

Miles winning pctg at LSU: .786 (.700 in the SEC)
Richt winning pctg at UGA: .738 (.696 in the SEC)

I agree except for that part. GA >>> LA. LA has good quality, but GA has much more top-rated recruits. The issue is that Richt can't keep the home-grown talent in state. He keeps losing them to Auburn, Alabama and Florida. LSU has the entire state practically on lockdown, with few exceptions.

 

[ND NYC]

how old is Saban?

 

[MNIrishman]

how old is Saban?

Let me google that for you

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I agree except for that part. GA >>> LA. LA has good quality, but GA has much more top-rated recruits. The issue is that Richt can't keep the home-grown talent in state. He keeps losing them to Auburn, Alabama and Florida. LSU has the entire state practically on lockdown, with few exceptions.

It could have changed in the last few years, but since 2009 Louisiana produced the most NFL players per capita.

 

[MNIrishman]

It could have changed in the last few years, but since 2009 Louisiana produced the most NFL players per capita.

True, but Georgia produced nearly double the NFL players overall. The per capita thing is offset by the fact that the number of capitas in Georgia is much higher than the capitas in Louisiana.

 

[ickythump1225]

Jimbo Fisher is a better coach. Their defensive and offensive talent is loads better.

Because they are a power-run team, they might have a chance, if they were to run for over 200 yards.

But I seriously doubt they could do that.

I think that their RB stable would be just as likely to wear down the Hogs, too.

No way they would beat the Noles, but I am reticent to say they could not win Duke's division and theoretically be playing FSU this weekend.

Duke didn't even win "Duke's division." Georgia Tech did.

 

[ickythump1225]

SEC! SEC! SEC!

That is basically what your argument amounts to. Your whole argument is predicated on "SEC! SEC! SEC!" To follow your logic you would have to believe that every team in the SEC is inherently better than almost every other football program in the country. No team in the country has beaten FSU since 2012 and now all of a sudden the cellar dweller of the SECw is going to beat them just because they're a "power rush" team? Jimbo Fisher may be a scumbag but he is a hell of a good coach...call me crazy but I'd take the defending national champion on a 28 game win streak with the defending Heisman Trophy winner to find a way to win a squeaker over over the last place team in the SECw. Just because Arkansas lost a few close games to some good teams doesn't mean s**t. Arkansas is the kind of team that always finds a way to lose. I have zero faith in Bielema to win a tactical chess match with any coach of truly worth his salt. I have less than zero faith in Arkansas' QB to win a game if needed.

Just because the patch on their uniforms says "SEC" doesn't impress me. 2014 Arkansas is a less good version of Bielema's Wisconsin teams and I can pretty much guarantee that you wouldn't be talking up Wisconsin and their power run attack to beat FSU, Oregon, Ohio State, TCU, etc. Hell on a neutral field I'd take Georgia Tech over Arkansas. Take off your SEC goggles and look objectively at college football.

You think just because Arkansas only lost by a point to Alabama that they're some great team when they are in fact 6-6. I understand their division may be tougher than others but so what? I don't like their coach, I don't think he's all that great, and I don't have faith in their team to be able to win other power 5 divisions. I'm not blinded by the three letters of their conference, I don't think they're some dynamite team being held back from competing for titles because they play in a touch division. I think they're a mediocre team that had a niceish run to end the season.

 

[philipm31]

Duke didn't even win "Duke's division." Georgia Tech did.

Who Cares??

They are in the same division. And ARK could win that division pretty easily, to be honest. Particularly the way that they are playing right now.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

SEC Open Thread

Who Cares??



They are in the same division. And ARK could win that division pretty easily, to be honest. Particularly the way that they are playing right now.

Consistency is something Arkansas severely lacks, and it's worst enemy. They would have lost 2-3 games in the AAC this year. Sure they could compete with almost anyone when driven and motivated, but they served up a poo poo platter on at least 3 occasions where they would have struggled against/lost to just about any Power 5 team.

 

[Legacy]

Ranked teams playing FBS opponents with winning records

Ranked teams playing FBS opponents with winning records

Reviewing those teams ranked in the top ten and any team playing in a conference championship (13 teams), here's how many of their FBS opponents have winning records.

• Alabama - 8
• Missouri - 5
• Oregon - 7
• Arizona - 8
• Florida State - 6
• Georgia Tech - 5
• TCU - 5
• Baylor - 3
• Ohio State - 6
• Wisconsin - 7
• Mississippi State - 5
• Kansas State - 5
• Michigan State - 5

Seven of these thirteen teams played more than half their twelve games against FBS teams with losing records.

As for the SEC teams on this list, Alabama - 8, Missouri - 5, Mississippi State - 5 (Outside of the SEC West, Mississippi State did not play any FBS team with a winning record - SEC East or non-conference.) The SEC West had six teams with winning records. The SEC East had only three teams with winning records - Georgia, Missouri and Florida (6-5). Like Alabama, Missouri played three FBS winning teams in their combined cross-divisional and non-conference record.

Of all Power 5 conference teams, Baylor has not played the least number of FBS teams with a winning record than the Irish. Duke has that distinction, playing only one FBS team with a winning record (Georgia Tech)!

Two of these teams - Alabama and Arizona - played one more FBS team with a winning record than the Irish. (Notre Dame played seven teams with winning records this year.) Two teams played the same number of winning teams as Notre Dame. The other nine teams played less FBS teams with winning records than ND.

Additionally, ND played one team with a 6-6 record (North Carolina) and two teams with 5-7 records (Michigan and Northwestern).

ND played ten games against Power 5 conference teams.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

If the right Arkansas showed up they could absolutely beat FSU. They're inconsistent but when that massive o line and running game get going it's tough to stop.

The whole SEC superiority thing used to get me fired up but I've come to grips with it. The ability to sustain quality depth in that conference is unrivaled.

The south also seems to be producing a new species of athlete..

 

[ickythump1225]

Consistency is something Arkansas severely lacks, and it's worst enemy. They would have lost 2-3 games in the AAC this year. Sure they could compete with almost anyone when driven and motivated, but they served up a poo poo platter on at least 3 occasions where they would have struggled against/lost to just about any Power 5 team.

Impossible! They are a power rush team that plays in the SEC! They would run all the other conferences! My god they are the greatest 6-6 team to ever play.

 

[Nick Setta]

Found this on Reddit its the 1986 Florida football entrance exam. EDIT: IT'S FAKE

MUST READ:
Found a copy of the 1986 University of Florida Football Entrance Exam. Clearly, academics were a priority. : CFB

 

[irishtrain]

If the right Arkansas showed up they could absolutely beat FSU. They're inconsistent but when that massive o line and running game get going it's tough to stop.

The whole SEC superiority thing used to get me fired up but I've come to grips with it. The ability to sustain quality depth in that conference is unrivaled.

The south also seems to be producing a new species of athlete..

Disagree completely, the reason the schools of the sec win is because as Finebaum says they are more committed to winning-meaning hey coach get 'em in here to win a football game and we'll keep them eligible. They have no standard other than the min on what the ncaa will allow for admissions and classes and they have no conscious on anything but winning. Its pro football, so lets not give too much credit for the wins of the sec teams. THEY SHOULD WIN-THEY PAY FOR IT. Yes its the best conference but northern raised kids from football backrounds can play the game just as well. Its the difference between win at all cost vs win within the scope of the education process. Those players that you say are 'another species' are in fact football bums. I'm really tired of the cover up and the looking the other way as this ^%$# goes on. Minor league pro football.

 

[koonja]

Jakell Mitchel, Auburn freshman RB, was shot and killed at an apartment near campus. Horrible.

 

[Irishnuke]

Jakell Mitchel, Auburn freshman RB, was shot and killed at an apartment near campus. Horrible.

Here's the link.

NCAAF Auburn freshman killed in shooting - ESPN

 

[RammerJammer91]

Jakell Mitchel, Auburn freshman RB, was shot and killed at an apartment near campus. Horrible.

Same complex where the shootings took place in 2012. I wonder if Malzahn will make that place off-limits to his players going forward.

 

[Legacy]

Good story about walkon getting a scholarship at Ole Miss

Good story about walkon getting a scholarship at Ole Miss

Jordan Holder helps fellow Ole Miss walk-on in need

Sometimes we get caught up in the negative ones.

 

[PANDFAN]

Reports: Florida dismisses Gerald Willis after "altercation" with teammate; father disputes - Alligator Army

But Willis's mother confirmed his dismissal to Gator Country's Andrew Spivey

you remember his mom don't you

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-Ojy98TYvO8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Gators?src=hash">#Gators</a> DL Gerald Willis III has been dismissed from the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UF?src=hash">#UF</a> football team, according to sources. He hopes to transfer to Texas A&M.</p>— Zach Abolverdi (@ZachAbolverdi) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZachAbolverdi/status/552569692314148864">January 6, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[GoldenDomer]

Reports: Florida dismisses Gerald Willis after "altercation" with teammate; father disputes - Alligator Army

But Willis's mother confirmed his dismissal to Gator Country's Andrew Spivey

you remember his mom don't you

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-Ojy98TYvO8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Same baby momma as Landon Collins.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

FO's Bill Connelly writes that the SEC was clearly the best conference in 2014, even after the bowl flops are factored in. More relevant to us, however, is that the ACC was the 2nd best conference according to F/+. Bodes well for our SoS, though it also means 2015 could be much more challenging than previously anticipated.

Clemson finished #1 in defensive F/+, and Georgia Tech finish #1 in offensive F/+. Fortunately for us, Clemson only returns 3 starters on defense next year, and GT has to replace 5 of its top 6 rushers.