SEC Open Thread

[T Town Tommy]

You see, it doesn't count because Bama wasn't the best in the conference and they were disappointed they only went to the Sugar Bowl so they didn't play real SEC football in their game and it only counts if you beat the best in the conference unless you do in which case it doesn't. Also any losing teams from the SEC only represent the SEC East (if you're in the West you're an honorary member of the SEC East for the game you lose) so the SEC West is still the best and will be petitioning for a wild card spot in the NFL playoffs so they can play meaningful football out of conference.

If you don't think the SEC West is the best division in football, then you simply don't know football. Outside a few of the haters... most everyone in the country knows that. Even poor old Danny Kanell. So... I guess that means you are a hater. But let me help you out here.

I could care less about any other team in the country right now other than Bama.

 

[IrishLax]

Looking at opinion polls is worthless. Here's how to consider if the SEC is overrated. Per Sagarin Predictor (pretty much the best "strength" rating system out there)...

1. Alabama
3. Ole Miss
4. Georgia
5. Mississippi State
6. Auburn
11. Arkansas (who is 6-6...)
12. LSU
18. Missouri
19. Florida
24. Texas A&M
25. Tennessee

Pretty much the entire SEC is in the top 25 of an unbiased computer poll. So that empirical evidence says SEC > all. The only non-SEC team in the top 6 is TCU.

Alternatively, if you look at "Vegas" rankings which literally just ask the question "who is the BEST team? and who would be favored over who and by how much?"

From BEFORE this week's actions:
1. Alabama (2 points clear of the rest of CFB... before beating Auburn...)
2. Baylor/Oregon
4. FSU/Georgia/Ohio State
7. UCLA
8. Wisconsin
9. Michigan State/Oklahoma

Will be interesting to see where these sit after this week's action, but you only had 2 SEC teams in the top 10... and one lost to Georgia Tech. UCLA also lost to Stanford though. But per an aggregate on Vegas linesmakers, after Alabama there is a BIG drop off in strength to the other SEC teams... even in the West.

Outside of Georgia, there are no SEC East teams in the top 25 of Vegas' objective "strength" ratings.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Looking at opinion polls is worthless. Here's how to consider if the SEC is overrated. Per Sagarin Predictor (pretty much the best "strength" rating system out there)...

1. Alabama
3. Ole Miss
4. Georgia
5. Mississippi State
6. Auburn
11. Arkansas (who is 6-6...)
12. LSU
18. Missouri
19. Florida
24. Texas A&M
25. Tennessee

Pretty much the entire SEC is in the top 25 of an unbiased computer poll. So that empirical evidence says SEC > all. The only non-SEC team in the top 6 is TCU.

Alternatively, if you look at "Vegas" rankings which literally just ask the question "who is the BEST team? and who would be favored over who and by how much?"

From BEFORE this week's actions:
1. Alabama (2 points clear of the rest of CFB... before beating Auburn...)
2. Baylor/Oregon
4. FSU/Georgia/Ohio State
7. UCLA
8. Wisconsin
9. Michigan State/Oklahoma

Will be interesting to see where these sit after this week's action, but you only had 2 SEC teams in the top 10... and one lost to Georgia Tech. UCLA also lost to Stanford though. But per an aggregate on Vegas linesmakers, after Alabama there is a BIG drop off in strength to the other SEC teams... even in the West.

Outside of Georgia, there are no SEC East teams in the top 25 of Vegas' objective "strength" ratings.

That's nice. So where would a healthy Notre Dame fall in the SEC? Or, in particular, the SEC West?

Here's my take Lax. ND fans spend way too much time trying to justify their team and/or trying to downplay everyone else. Neither is really proactive. As far as the SEC... at the end of the day I care about Alabama and Ky (my home state.) Every other team can win or lose and it doesn't really matter that much to me. But the constant posting that the SEC is overrated/not good/ yada yada is really old. Worry about how ND is going to close the talent gap, keep their players healthy, win the games they are in. Who really gives a damn at the end of the day if the team we cheer for isn't playing for the title?

 

[bkess8]

That's nice. So where would a healthy Notre Dame fall in the SEC? Or, in particular, the SEC West?

Alabama 7-1
Mississippi State 6-2
Ole Miss 5-3
Auburn 4-4
LSU 4-4
Texas A&M 3-5
Arkansas 2-6

Realistically we would be battling with the bottom three if we are lucky. Would be hard for our offense to score consistently on LSU, Ole Miss, Alabama, and Arkansas, and we couldn't out score Auburn.

 

[IrishLax]

That's nice. So where would a healthy Notre Dame fall in the SEC? Or, in particular, the SEC West?

Huh? I said in other threads that ND would lose to a competent MAC team right now with this sorry excuse for a defense, so what's your point?

If actually asking the question legitimately... as of before last week (where ND got blown out, lost another MIKE, lost two more safeties, and now has no healthy defensive tackles left on the entire roster after losing two more) ND was rated better by Vegas than every team in the SEC East besides Georgia, and in the West behind Alabama, Mississippi State, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, and Arkansas.

Sagarin (reflecting this week) slots ND at #29 behind all the teams listed above.

Here's my take Lax. ND fans spend way too much time trying to justify their team and/or trying to downplay everyone else.

Yeah, this is just total ignorant BS. I have scarce seen ANYONE talk about ND "deserving" more or being "underrated" since Joe Schmidt, Sheldon Day, Jarron Jones, and Cody Riggs all picked up injuries heading up to ASU. I think ND fans are actually far MORE realistic, pragmatic, and informed about their team than general college football fans.

Neither is really proactive. As far as the SEC... at the end of the day I care about Alabama and Ky (my home state.) Every other team can win or lose and it doesn't really matter that much to me. But the constant posting that the SEC is overrated/not good/ yada yada is really old. Worry about how ND is going to close the talent gap, keep their players healthy, win the games they are in. Who really gives a damn at the end of the day if the team we cheer for isn't playing for the title?

And this is just super stupid. A discussion board is made for discussion.

We have a thread on Ferguson. We have a thread on politics. We have a thread on coaching changes around the country. We have a whole sub-forum for "Other College Football"... and you think we shouldn't use it because we should "worry about our own team" is, at best, illogical. It's not like any of us have an office in the Gug where we could re-allocate our time to doing something that would actually improve our team. Nor do any of us function as Bag Men.

So discussing which conferences are better than others ON A COLLEGE FOOTBALL BOARD seems like a rather acceptable use of time. Sorry if it upsets your constitution when anyone questions the ultimate supremacy of the South Eastern Conference.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Looking at opinion polls is worthless. Here's how to consider if the SEC is overrated. Per Sagarin Predictor (pretty much the best "strength" rating system out there)...

1. Alabama
3. Ole Miss
4. Georgia
5. Mississippi State
6. Auburn
11. Arkansas (who is 6-6...)
12. LSU
18. Missouri
19. Florida
24. Texas A&M
25. Tennessee

Pretty much the entire SEC is in the top 25 of an unbiased computer poll. So that empirical evidence says SEC > all. The only non-SEC team in the top 6 is TCU.

Alternatively, if you look at "Vegas" rankings which literally just ask the question "who is the BEST team? and who would be favored over who and by how much?"

From BEFORE this week's actions:
1. Alabama (2 points clear of the rest of CFB... before beating Auburn...)
2. Baylor/Oregon
4. FSU/Georgia/Ohio State
7. UCLA
8. Wisconsin
9. Michigan State/Oklahoma

Will be interesting to see where these sit after this week's action, but you only had 2 SEC teams in the top 10... and one lost to Georgia Tech. UCLA also lost to Stanford though. But per an aggregate on Vegas linesmakers, after Alabama there is a BIG drop off in strength to the other SEC teams... even in the West.

Outside of Georgia, there are no SEC East teams in the top 25 of Vegas' objective "strength" ratings.

Some of these SEC teams in the Sagarin rankings (and I agree with you about Sagarin) are just hard to justify, or at least know about for sure. Arkansas at 6-6 is greatly improved and certainly not the same team today as they were 3 months ago. Tennessee has improved also, but UGA is just an enigma. They can look like an NFL team one week and a MAC school's scout team the next. Auburn has been all over the map also. The team that almost beat us this weekend bears no resemblance to the team that got slaughtered by UGA a couple of weeks ago. LSU has been up & down. The two Mississippi schools have looked great at times and then pedestrian at others. Mizzou has looked awesome one week and ridiculous the next.

I honestly have no idea if all those teams belong on that list or only 1 or 2 of them do. Heck of a confusing, up & down season for most of the SEC teams this year. Other than Bama just being Bama, the rest of the conference has been schizo.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Huh? I said in other threads that ND would lose to a competent MAC team right now with this sorry excuse for a defense, so what's your point?

If actually asking the question legitimately... as of before last week (where ND got blown out, lost another MIKE, lost two more safeties, and now has no healthy defensive tackles left on the entire roster after losing two more) ND was rated better by Vegas than every team in the SEC East besides Georgia, and in the West behind Alabama, Mississippi State, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, and Arkansas.

Sagarin (reflecting this week) slots ND at #29 behind all the teams listed above.



Yeah, this is just total ignorant BS. I have scarce seen ANYONE talk about ND "deserving" more or being "underrated" since Joe Schmidt, Sheldon Day, Jarron Jones, and Cody Riggs all picked up injuries heading up to ASU. I think ND fans are actually far MORE realistic, pragmatic, and informed about their team than general college football fans.



And this is just super stupid. A discussion board is made for discussion.

We have a thread on Ferguson. We have a thread on politics. We have a thread on coaching changes around the country. We have a whole sub-forum for "Other College Football"... and you think we shouldn't use it because we should "worry about our own team" is, at best, illogical. It's not like any of us have an office in the Gug where we could re-allocate our time to doing something that would actually improve our team. Nor do any of us function as Bag Men.

So discussing which conferences are better than others ON A COLLEGE FOOTBALL BOARD seems like a rather acceptable use of time. Sorry if it upsets your constitution when anyone questions the ultimate supremacy of the South Eastern Conference.

You missed my points Lax. Long before any injuries and long before this season, a lot of posters out here spent most of their time trying to legitimize ND and downplay every other team in the country. There is a reason why the SEC is talked about constantly out here.

As far as discussion, I agree 100%. My point was the fact that if my team isn't playing for the title, then I really don't care who wins it. I love discussing the games, matchups, etc., but at the end of the day, I don't care who really wins... my team didn't so I don't care.

I question the constant downplaying of a conference that has dominated college football and some people's inability to understand that. To constantly take cheap shots, bad mouth, and otherwise discount what that conference has accomplished is BS. You know it and I know it. And to not be able to objectively look at teams because one looks through their own baises is BS. Take the uniforms off and evaluate teams. More times than not, that isn't the case out here. It is the SEC is overrated... even though they typically dominate the latest "johnny come lately" team in the title game, their criminals, they cheat, they do this they do that. What they do is win... and win against the best this sport has had to offer the last decade. I think it is sad that it appears the last 25 years of ND football has bred hatred for any one team, one conference, etc. It sure seems to have eroded some's ability to look at teams and decide whether they are good or not. What other conference can have a 2-6 team as good as Arkansas is and the only argument posted out here is they suck... their 2-6. Let's be real Lax.

 

[GoldenDomer]

ACC (Who FSU is getting ripped on for rolling through because it's supposedly a terrible conference) was 4-0 against SEC yesterday. Just saying.

In the SEC's defense, the East and the West are polar opposites.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...ND fans spend way too much time trying to justify their team and/or trying to downplay everyone else.

No offense, but isn't criticizing the way "ND fans spend their time" just a little ironic coming from an Alabama fan with 3,000+ posts on a Notre Dame internet message board...?

And I have some thoughts of my own about the way Alabama fans spend their time (NSFW), but that deserves its own thread.

 

[MNIrishman]

If you don't think the SEC West is the best division in football, then you simply don't know football. Outside a few of the haters... most everyone in the country knows that. Even poor old Danny Kanell. So... I guess that means you are a hater. But let me help you out here.

I could care less about any other team in the country right now other than Bama.

You say that like it's some kind of revelation. Have you seen my avatar? I'll never miss a chance to disparage the fattest, most illiterate, undereducated, and racist states in America.

But you guys go on teabagging, poisoning trees, and recruiting athletes that beat other students senseless. I'm sure the wins justify the dark underbelly. And you guys can keep getting a few high class guys a year like Barrett Jones or McElroy so such negative generalizations are always untrue.

Guys who couldn't care less about any other team in the country right now other than Bama are exactly why people stereotype the fanbase/state the way they do.

 

[T Town Tommy]

No offense, but isn't criticizing the way "ND fans spend their time" just a little ironic coming from an Alabama fan with 3,000+ posts on a Notre Dame internet message board...?

And I have some thoughts of my own about the way Alabama fans spend their time (NSFW), but that deserves its own thread.

So I can't like ND now? Come on man. I have posted several times why I like this board. And maybe that's part of the issues out here. If this board is solely made up of Irish fans that's fine but doesn't outside opinion offer up something that may otherwise not be brought up?. I would hope I bring some outside thoughts as well. What I won't do is run the Irish down or diminish what they have accomplished over the years. People are entitled to their opinions. This is a discussion board. But when those opinions are based solely on hatred and played off as "objective" analysis then I think they are open game for rebuttal. And that includes what I post out here as well.

 

[T Town Tommy]

You say that like it's some kind of revelation. Have you seen my avatar? I'll never miss a chance to disparage the fattest, most illiterate, undereducated, and racist states in America.

But you guys go on teabagging, poisoning trees, and recruiting athletes that beat other students senseless. I'm sure the wins justify the dark underbelly. And you guys can keep getting a few high class guys a year like Barrett Jones or McElroy so such negative generalizations are always untrue.

Guys who couldn't care less about any other team in the country right now other than Bama are exactly why people stereotype the fanbase/state the way they do.

So who's the real racist here? Give me a break.

 

[Bishop2b5]

In the SEC's defense, the East and the West are polar opposites.

Definitely so. The East has been a mess lately. Richt consistently puts together a world-class team that can beat anyone, but can also be counted on to completely shit the bed at least once every year (and usually when it counts the most). UT is starting to turn it around, but has been down for almost a decade now. Spurrier can't get over the hump and age may be catching up to him. UF hasn't been good since Urban left. Missouri is dangerous, but not consistently good. Vandy & UK are what they are.

 

[Legacy]

Tommy

Tommy

You come to a Notre Dame blog and, in the last few days, you have said:

"But don't let your hate of anything override your objectiveness." (to me)

"If you don't think the SEC West is the best division in football, then you simply don't know football. Outside a few of the haters... most everyone in the country knows that. Even poor old Danny Kanell. So... I guess that means you are a hater."

"And anyone who tries to make the argument that the SEC isn't the best conference either doesn't know football very well or lets their hatred overtake their ability to analyze teams, divisions, conferences." (Response to MNIrishman)

We get it. Those of us who make statements that disagree with some of your conclusions are either haters or don't know football - or both.

You have also said:
"I question the constant downplaying of a conference that has dominated college football and some people's inability to understand that. To constantly take cheap shots, bad mouth, and otherwise discount what that conference has accomplished is BS. You know it and I know it. And to not be able to objectively look at teams because one looks through their own baises is BS. ... I think it is sad that it appears the last 25 years of ND football has bred hatred for any one team, one conference, etc. It sure seems to have eroded some's ability to look at teams and decide whether they are good or not."

"ND fans spend way too much time trying to justify their team and/or trying to downplay everyone else. Neither is really proactive. As far as the SEC... at the end of the day I care about Alabama and Ky (my home state.) Every other team can win or lose and it doesn't really matter that much to me. But the constant posting that the SEC is overrated/not good/ yada yada is really old. Worry about how ND is going to close the talent gap, keep their players healthy, win the games they are in."

Your opinions to and about us are crystal clear.

Finally, you have said, after this weekend:
"Arkansas is a pretty solid team. Finishing where they did in the SEC West is not indicative of how good they are. And they would be favored over a lot of teams in the running for their division titles."

Which teams are you referring to - (Pac 12) Oregon, Arizona; (Big 12) TCU, Baylor, Kansas State; (ACC) Florida State, Georgia Tech; (Big 10) Ohio State, Wisconsin?

 

[Ndaccountant]

You missed my points Lax. Long before any injuries and long before this season, a lot of posters out here spent most of their time trying to legitimize ND and downplay every other team in the country. There is a reason why the SEC is talked about constantly out here.

As far as discussion, I agree 100%. My point was the fact that if my team isn't playing for the title, then I really don't care who wins it. I love discussing the games, matchups, etc., but at the end of the day, I don't care who really wins... my team didn't so I don't care.

I question the constant downplaying of a conference that has dominated college football and some people's inability to understand that. To constantly take cheap shots, bad mouth, and otherwise discount what that conference has accomplished is BS. You know it and I know it. And to not be able to objectively look at teams because one looks through their own baises is BS. Take the uniforms off and evaluate teams. More times than not, that isn't the case out here. It is the SEC is overrated... even though they typically dominate the latest "johnny come lately" team in the title game, their criminals, they cheat, they do this they do that. What they do is win... and win against the best this sport has had to offer the last decade. I think it is sad that it appears the last 25 years of ND football has bred hatred for any one team, one conference, etc. It sure seems to have eroded some's ability to look at teams and decide whether they are good or not. What other conference can have a 2-6 team as good as Arkansas is and the only argument posted out here is they suck... their 2-6. Let's be real Lax.

CFB fans, not just this site, believe there is bias towards the SEC. I don't think that disproves that the SEC is the best conference. Instead, it is that the SEC isn't as far superior as what is portrayed. Why does it matter? Whether we like it not, perception is what the CFP is based on. Teams outside of the SEC have a legitimate concern that the media bias (and yes, ESPN has LOTS to gain via SEC network if SEC is perceived to be the best) can slant that perception. Crowd think is always dangerous and typically leads to inaccuracy.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Let's all take a deep breath and step back from the insults and hyperbole. ND fans are frustrated with your season and often disagree with how SEC teams run their programs (or at least their perception of how SEC teams run their programs). Tommy, and to some extent myself, get frustrated at what we perceive as relentless hatred and insults towards all things Southern or all things SEC from the same 3 or 4 people. Tommy & I are both here because we admire ND, enjoy the predominantly rational and fair discussions, and enjoy giving and getting a viewpoint from the other side.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Which teams are you referring to - (Pac 12) Oregon, Arizona; (Big 12) TCU, Baylor, Kansas State; (ACC) Florida State, Georgia Tech; (Big 10) Ohio State, Wisconsin?

Arkansas could play with Fla State. Fla State doesn't appear to be the great team they were last year. Ga Tech will be a big test for Jimbo and crew and they are somewhat similar to Arkansas in that they rely heavily on the run.

TCU, Baylor, K State? Arkansas could beat any of those teams on any Saturday. The Razorback O line has shown they can control possession of the football and the way to beat a spread offense is to keep the ball away from them. The same reason Stanford gives Oregon trouble most years.

Oregon is better than Arkansas right now but in the same tradion as Stanford, Oregon would struggle to keep Arkansas from running the ball. Oregon wins simplly due to them being the better team right now. Arizona? Haven't watched enough of them to really know. They look pretty solid from what little I have seen.

My most recent remarks are simply geared toward the dismissive attitude that some out here have about the SEC in general. And like I have said, in the end if my team isn't winning the title then I could care less how the rest of the conference does. Or any team for that matter. But casually dismissing the dominant conference in CFB for the better part of ten years now is ridiculous. To say they haven't been is as well. And that's where I see things differently./

 

[T Town Tommy]

CFB fans, not just this site, believe there is bias towards the SEC. I don't think that disproves that the SEC is the best conference. Instead, it is that the SEC isn't as far superior as what is portrayed. Why does it matter? Whether we like it not, perception is what the CFP is based on. Teams outside of the SEC have a legitimate concern that the media bias (and yes, ESPN has LOTS to gain via SEC network if SEC is perceived to be the best) can slant that perception. Crowd think is always dangerous and typically leads to inaccuracy.

And ESPN also has contracts and a vested interest in every other Power Five conference as well. The ESPN conspiracy theories don't really hold much weight for me. I hear just as many analysts on that network talk up other good teams around the country as well. Even some like Danny Kanell and Robert Smith who openly cheerlead for their former teams and conferences. Jesse Palmer is probably more open minded than most.

I don't think the SEC East has held their end of the deal up this year and it is dragging the conference down. Hopefully things start changing over there and they get back to being good teams. But the SEC West? By far the best division in CFB. Not even a comparison.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

So I can't like ND now? Come on man. I have posted several times why I like this board. And maybe that's part of the issues out here. If this board is solely made up of Irish fans that's fine but doesn't outside opinion offer up something that may otherwise not be brought up?. I would hope I bring some outside thoughts as well. What I won't do is run the Irish down or diminish what they have accomplished over the years. People are entitled to their opinions. This is a discussion board. But when those opinions are based solely on hatred and played off as "objective" analysis then I think they are open game for rebuttal. And that includes what I post out here as well.

You can like whoever you want. Some in this thread have the "opinion" (which, evidently, you now believe they're "entitled to") that the SEC is over-rated.

Not only have you criticized this opinion as a way "ND fans spend their time", but you've also criticized the very fact that this discussion is even taking place. As a thread. On a college football message board. That's the exact opposite of what you just posted above regarding "entitlement to opinion", and "discussion".

Telling everyone to go do something else is not a "rebuttal".

 

[Ndaccountant]

And ESPN also has contracts and a vested interest in every other Power Five conference as well. The ESPN conspiracy theories don't really hold much weight for me. I hear just as many analysts on that network talk up other good teams around the country as well. Even some like Danny Kanell and Robert Smith who openly cheerlead for their former teams and conferences. Jesse Palmer is probably more open minded than most.

I don't think the SEC East has held their end of the deal up this year and it is dragging the conference down. Hopefully things start changing over there and they get back to being good teams. But the SEC West? By far the best division in CFB. Not even a comparison.

ESPN does not have a BIG 10 channel, the Pac12 and Big12 are Fox and the ACC is ESPN in broadcast, but does not have nearly as vested interest as the SEC.

Pop Quiz for everyone here? Without looking up Clay Travis' data, how much does ESPN get in distribution revenue for the network (realizing that the split between the SEC & ESPN are 50/50 on profits)?

ESPN2 generates ~$860M in distribution revenue according to his report.




















Answer: - $611M was the expected distribution revenue, with ESPN's share being just over $300M in the first year. So, with any luck, the network will be worth the same, if not more, than ESPN2 for the company. For comparison, ESPNU generates $190M, which is just 2/3rds the size of the SEC Network. So, yea, ESPN has lots to gain here, as even with the reported 50/50 split, the network is still worth more to ESPN than what either the Pac12 or Big 10 network is worth. They have the biggest microphone, they have long term contracts signed, the only thing left to do is to ring the register. You don't see a conflict of interest there?

 

[pkt77242]

Arkansas could play with Fla State. Fla State doesn't appear to be the great team they were last year. Ga Tech will be a big test for Jimbo and crew and they are somewhat similar to Arkansas in that they rely heavily on the run.

TCU, Baylor, K State? Arkansas could beat any of those teams on any Saturday. The Razorback O line has shown they can control possession of the football and the way to beat a spread offense is to keep the ball away from them. The same reason Stanford gives Oregon trouble most years.

Oregon is better than Arkansas right now but in the same tradion as Stanford, Oregon would struggle to keep Arkansas from running the ball. Oregon wins simplly due to them being the better team right now. Arizona? Haven't watched enough of them to really know. They look pretty solid from what little I have seen.

My most recent remarks are simply geared toward the dismissive attitude that some out here have about the SEC in general. And like I have said, in the end if my team isn't winning the title then I could care less how the rest of the conference does. Or any team for that matter. But casually dismissing the dominant conference in CFB for the better part of ten years now is ridiculous. To say they haven't been is as well. And that's where I see things differently./

I think Baylor, TCU and even Kansas St. win that game more often then not. In theory could Arkansas win, yes but if they played 5 times I would take Baylor, TCU and maybe Kansas St. to win at least 3 of the five (and maybe even 4 out of 5).

No one isn't saying that they aren't the best conference or haven't been they are just saying that the conference isn't as good as people are making it out to be. Let me put it this way, many people view the SEC as 10 as far a conference, the Pac12 a 7.5, the Big 12 a 7.5, the ACC a 5, and the Big10 a 5.5. I think that what we are trying to argue is that maybe the SEC is only an 8.5. The best conference, probably, but that people make it out as if every team is great (including teams such as Kentucky, Tennessee, etc). Part of the frustration is the lack of scheduling quality opponents out of conference for most of the teams which makes it even harder to judge them.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I think Baylor, TCU and even Kansas St. win that game more often then not. In theory could Arkansas win, yes but if they played 5 times I would take Baylor, TCU and maybe Kansas St. to win at least 3 of the five (and maybe even 4 out of 5).

No one isn't saying that they aren't the best conference or haven't been they are just saying that the conference isn't as good as people are making it out to be. Let me put it this way, many people view the SEC as 10 as far a conference, the Pac12 a 7.5, the Big 12 a 7.5, the ACC a 5, and the Big10 a 5.5. I think that what we are trying to argue is that maybe the SEC is only an 8.5. The best conference, probably, but that people make it out as if every team is great (including teams such as Kentucky, Tennessee, etc). Part of the frustration is the lack of scheduling quality opponents out of conference for most of the teams which makes it even harder to judge them.

I have no argument with this at all. I do see some claiming that all SEC fans think the conference's worst teams are better than any other conference's best, that the SEC is unbeatable, etc. No realistic SEC fan believes any of that. I realize that given the results of the past few years, SEC teams tend to get the benefit of the doubt, especially in the preseason polls, and I can understand the frustration from fans in other parts of the country. OTOH, we have won all but 1 of the last 8 NC's and usually have almost as many highly ranked teams at the end of the season as the rest of the conferences combined. This year we aren't particularly great and are probably no better than the PAC 12 overall.

 

[Legacy]

Moving On

Moving On

NDAccountant has initiated a good topic about the SEC Network, college football in today's free market with implications that are worth discussiing.

"...how much does ESPN get in distribution revenue for the network (realizing that the split between the SEC & ESPN are 50/50 on profits)?

Answer: - $611M was the expected distribution revenue, with ESPN's share being just over $300M in the first year. So, with any luck, the network will be worth the same, if not more, than ESPN2 for the company. For comparison, ESPNU generates $190M, which is just 2/3rds the size of the SEC Network. So, yea, ESPN has lots to gain here, as even with the reported 50/50 split, the network is still worth more to ESPN than what either the Pac12 or Big 10 network is worth. They have the biggest microphone, they have long term contracts signed, the only thing left to do is to ring the register. You don't see a conflict of interest there?"

(Clay Thomas's article) SEC Network Revenue is Impressive

The SEC's revenue from athletics last year was about $21/million for each school before the CFB and network contract revenue kicks in. Distributing an estimated $300 million from the SEC Network provides another $21 million each in its first year. While each school has obligations to upgrade their broadcast facilities, most member schools are close to or have done that. Cumulatively, they have spent $25-30 million to upgrade.

Aside from those costs, let's estimate that member schools will get at least $42 million from distributions this year.

When costs for upgrades are completed, the rest is profit. Profit revenue can and is being used in many ways, e.g. enlarging stadiums, new facilities, coaching salaries, etc.

The ESPN contract, initially for 15 years, has been extended through 2034. Initially, ESPN and Comcast contracted for the games. Direct TV has reached agreement in August to carry this year's games. So, profits may well increase over the next twenty years.

The SEC, as well as the other Power 5 conferences, has come out in favor of providing full cost of attendance in scholarships, about an additional $2,000 more per athlete. Schools sitting on that huge amount of cash coming in has implications for the state of college football, the NCAA - and its "student-athletes".

For example, when will the antitrust lawsuits shift focus from the NCAA to the SEC with the same arguments that the school's revenue is in a large part derived from the work and achievements of their athletes and is being unfairly restricted by the schools?

 

[ND NYC]

so, every ACC team beat every SEC team it played this week?

 

[irishfan]

so, every ACC team beat every SEC team it played this week?

Yes, but 3/4 of them were undedogs so it's not a big deal.

Just like it wasn't a big deal Week 1 when Bama, LSU, and Ole Miss were able to beat WVU, Wisconsin, and Boise State who were all underdogs. Oh, wait. I think I remember the media making a big deal about the SEC West in Week 1......

 

[RammerJammer91]

Yes, but 3/4 of them were undedogs so it's not a big deal.

Just like it wasn't a big deal Week 1 when Bama, LSU, and Ole Miss were able to beat WVU, Wisconsin, and Boise State who were all underdogs. Oh, wait. I think I remember the media making a big deal about the SEC West in Week 1......

Not really. Bama didn't get much credit for barely beating a lowly WVU team. Danny Kanell absolutely crucified LSU, saying they didn't look good, got lucky that Wiscy handed them the game on a silver platter, etc. Then, right after, he basically ignored FSU's close call against Oklahoma State.

 

[irishfan]

Not really. Bama didn't get much credit for barely beating a lowly WVU team. Danny Kanell absolutely crucified LSU, saying they didn't look good, got lucky that Wiscy handed them the game on a silver platter, etc. Then, right after, he basically ignored FSU's close call against Oklahoma State.

Oh, come on. Every media outlet in the world was all over the SEC West from the start of the season.

Bama beat WVU.
Auburn beat K-State.
LSU beat Wisconsin.
Ole Miss beat Boise.
Arkansas beat Texas Tech.
MSU/A&m played no one out of conference.

Good for the SEC West. They took care of business. They won the games they were supposed to, with the Auburn win over KSU being a great one. The ACC does the same thing last week, going 4-0 against the SEC, with the Ga Tech win at UGA being a great one. And it barely gets mentioned.

 

[Guest]

Looking at opinion polls is worthless. Here's how to consider if the SEC is overrated. Per Sagarin Predictor (pretty much the best "strength" rating system out there)...

1. Alabama
3. Ole Miss
4. Georgia
5. Mississippi State
6. Auburn
11. Arkansas (who is 6-6...)
12. LSU
18. Missouri
19. Florida
24. Texas A&M
25. Tennessee

Pretty much the entire SEC is in the top 25 of an unbiased computer poll. So that empirical evidence says SEC > all. The only non-SEC team in the top 6 is TCU.

Alternatively, if you look at "Vegas" rankings which literally just ask the question "who is the BEST team? and who would be favored over who and by how much?"

From BEFORE this week's actions:
1. Alabama (2 points clear of the rest of CFB... before beating Auburn...)
2. Baylor/Oregon
4. FSU/Georgia/Ohio State
7. UCLA
8. Wisconsin
9. Michigan State/Oklahoma

Will be interesting to see where these sit after this week's action, but you only had 2 SEC teams in the top 10... and one lost to Georgia Tech. UCLA also lost to Stanford though. But per an aggregate on Vegas linesmakers, after Alabama there is a BIG drop off in strength to the other SEC teams... even in the West.

Outside of Georgia, there are no SEC East teams in the top 25 of Vegas' objective "strength" ratings.

The whole problem with the Sagarin rankings in a nutshell:

"The schedule difficulty of each given game takes into account the rating of the opponent and the location of the game."

The ranking system is biased to whatever the ratings are, and in particular, pick up bias from the initial rankings prior to anyone playing a game and knowing who is who. The ratings themselves are biased to the SEC, as has been well documented by a Harvard researcher, among others. Therefore, Sagarin is no better than the rankings it requires to compute it's final output. We call this Garbage in, Garbage out in the computer industry.

I always say the same thing. Rankings mean squat when compared to settling it on the field. Expand the playoff and wait until the dust has cleared to declare your winner. Everything else is pointless debate in which nobody can, in fact, claim to have the 'right' answer.

 

[Guest]

So I can't like ND now? Come on man. I have posted several times why I like this board. And maybe that's part of the issues out here. If this board is solely made up of Irish fans that's fine but doesn't outside opinion offer up something that may otherwise not be brought up?. I would hope I bring some outside thoughts as well. What I won't do is run the Irish down or diminish what they have accomplished over the years. People are entitled to their opinions. This is a discussion board. But when those opinions are based solely on hatred and played off as "objective" analysis then I think they are open game for rebuttal. And that includes what I post out here as well.

Even though I have disagreed with you on the SEC strength, I think are one of the most objective posters on the board considering you aren't an Irish fan. Don't let the current fan frustration get you down. Some of us do appreciate outside perspective.

 

[IrishLax]

The whole problem with the Sagarin rankings in a nutshell:

"The schedule difficulty of each given game takes into account the rating of the opponent and the location of the game."

The ranking system is biased to whatever the ratings are, and in particular, pick up bias from the initial rankings prior to anyone playing a game and knowing who is who. The ratings themselves are biased to the SEC, as has been well documented by a Harvard researcher, among others. Therefore, Sagarin is no better than the rankings it requires to compute it's final output. We call this Garbage in, Garbage out in the computer industry.

I always say the same thing. Rankings mean squat when compared to settling it on the field. Expand the playoff and wait until the dust has cleared to declare your winner. Everything else is pointless debate in which nobody can, in fact, claim to have the 'right' answer.

I'm very confused considering Sagarin drops the initial (pre-season) ratings from the system after a number of games have been played.

That "Harvard" researcher post has been linked on here before, and I pointed out a number extremely large errors in his methodology and conclusions. I'll see if I can dig that up.

The crux of it though is that he's using efficiency stats... which ignore who actually won and lost a given game... in relation to the standard football polls. Those polls are supposed to reflect accomplishment, they are NOT power ratings. Given two teams playing equivalent schedules, a 12-0 team that squeaks by in all of their games SHOULD be ranked higher than a 6-6 team that lost on "bad luck" 6 times and blew out the other 6 opponents. No one would EVER make a case that the 6-6 team should be #1 in the country over the 12-0 team, but that's exactly what the "Harvard" researcher is arguing should be the case. F/+ is an efficiency metric that can be used to "power rate" who are the STRONGEST teams but that's a completely different animal to traditional polls, and the fact that he doesn't realize that invalidates the entire article and all conclusions therein.

Also, I'm not necessarily defending Sagarin, just confused by some of what you said.