Scalia Dead.

woolybug25

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Im cool with it....only because it gives my guys a much better shot at picking the next guy. If it were the other way around, I'd be pretty peaved.

No offense... but that's an ugly look for you. Essentially, you are saying that you don't really actually care about the constitution, just that your ideology gets pushed through at any cost necessary.

Some people act like politics is just some game where you root for one team over another.
 

brick4956

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Care to explain Wizards
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woolybug25

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I'm blown away with the way they have approached this from the beginning. If I was in charge I would have trumpeted Scalia and declared that the party is dedicated to honoring his memory and legacy with a fitting replacement on day 1. On Sunday I would have had the morning talk shows and debates all reading biographies of the staunchest conservative judges with the biggest credentials on a Rubioesque loop. That way at least the argument is framed for favorable negotiations, the party isn't saddled with any obstructionist/hypocrisy problems and most importantly can be on the offensive.

Now they have given up the high ground, played into every caricature of the last 7 years, and the President can play with house money throughout the nomination process, which is assuredly on its way. It just reads like a staggering political miscalculation to me

That's my thought as well. Not to mention, there are two liberal justices that the next President will most likely pick. So the blocking of the process is based entirely on greed. If they win, they are already going to get some choices. It will be interesting if one of them leave in an election year and these same guys are arguing the opposite when the table is turned.
 
B

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...until Bernie Sanders comes along promising to tax the rich

How exactly does increasing the taxes on personal income of the 1% impact job creation? If I'm the CEO of Ford, whether I'm taxed at 32% or 42%, I'm still showing up the next day and running Ford the same way I would.

This reminds me of Mark Cuban's interview in which he says that he's never been in a business meeting in which the business' concerns were discussed and someone brought up their personal tax rate as a factor.

and increase regulations... making the economic environment even more hostile for American companies... meaning even more factories are going to shut down and move to Mexico.

I think this is about as outlandish as thinking Sanders will solve all of the problems.

We've been lowering taxes and making this cushy for large corporations for decades now, with the TPP just around the corner. Many people don't think that cost is worth the reward.

A lot of caveats here. Not every job, no. But not every job is worth domesticating. We don't need to import zero-skill jobs so we're talking about semi-skilled and trade jobs. First, freight is expensive. Coordinating global logistics is expensive. Currency fluctuations are unpredictable (meaning expensive). So no, we'll probably never be price-competitive when it comes to base wages, but in total landed costs of finished goods there exists a break-even point where it's cheaper in total to pay an American worker a higher base wage than if you were to outsource, especially for products to be consumed domestically.

And in a short while it'll all be automatic robots anyway. Should be fun to watch.
 

RDU Irish

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I think it is garbage. However it doesn't really sell to the base to say "it depends on the quality of the candidate - if Obama puts up a moderate, non-controversial candidate we owe it to the country to do our job"

Send the rhetoric that you want to deal but fully expect the liberal nut to appoint a liberal nut. The Indian guy I have seen thrown around looks reasonable to me. This is not the appointment to get overly cute with.
 

wizards8507

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How exactly does increasing the taxes on personal income of the 1% impact job creation? If I'm the CEO of Ford, whether I'm taxed at 32% or 42%, I'm still showing up the next day and running Ford the same way I would.

This reminds me of Mark Cuban's interview in which he says that he's never been in a business meeting in which the business' concerns were discussed and someone brought up their personal tax rate as a factor.
Sole proprietors (70% of American businesses) pay their business taxes on their person 1040 income taxes. I'm not talking about the CEO of Ford, I'm talking about start-ups and small businessmen. That's where job creation happens. The mega-wealthy and fortune-whatever companies would be largely unaffected by changes in personal income taxation, you're right. But it would stifle the creation of new wealth.

We've been lowering taxes and making this cushy for large corporations for decades now, with the TPP just around the corner. Many people don't think that cost is worth the reward.
You can't be serious. We have the third highest corporate rates in the world after Chad and UAE. Chad and UAE!? Are you kidding me?
 

NorthDakota

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No offense... but that's an ugly look for you. Essentially, you are saying that you don't really actually care about the constitution, just that your ideology gets pushed through at any cost necessary.

Some people act like politics is just some game where you root for one team over another.

Putting words in other folks' mouths is an even uglier look. In fact, it might be my least favorite personality trait someone can have.
 

wizards8507

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I think it is garbage. However it doesn't really sell to the base to say "it depends on the quality of the candidate - if Obama puts up a moderate, non-controversial candidate we owe it to the country to do our job".
The job of the Senate isn't to do whatever the President wants. This keeps coming up about how "obstructionist" the Republicans are because they don't rubber-stamp everything Obama wants to do. We're supposed to have equal branches of government, not a singular executive that, by default, is supposed to get whatever he wants with the legislature only there to stop him from doing something egregious. If the president and congress disagree, it's perfectly appropriate for nothing to happen. In fact, the country was designed that way.
 

RDU Irish

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The job of the Senate isn't to do whatever the President wants. This keeps coming up about how "obstructionist" the Republicans are because they don't rubber-stamp everything Obama wants to do. We're supposed to have equal branches of government, not a singular executive that, by default, is supposed to get whatever he wants with the legislature only there to stop him from doing something egregious. If the president and congress disagree, it's perfectly appropriate for nothing to happen. In fact, the country was designed that way.

They are saying they won't even consider it - really an obstinate position to take. Whoever said it above said it better - own it and negotiate it. It is only going to be worse if Rs lose the presidency so why not work to avoid a complete moon bat leftie.
 

GoIrish41

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Not to switch gears here, but is anyone else a little annoyed with the Republican candidates all supporting blocking an appointment to Scalia's seat? As Bernie said today, it seams that they are all claiming to be strict "Constitutionalists" up until the point where they have to abide by it. The Constitution clearly lays out the process of how a justice is nominated and they are all trying to block that for no other reason other than giving their party a better chance of being who chooses it. There is literally no reason outside of that to delay this process for over a year like they are proposing.

Thoughts?

This is what they have been doing to Obama from Day 1 of his presidency when they proclaimed, "Our No. 1 goal is to ensure Obama is a one-term president." It's been obstruction from start to finish. I don't know why we should expect this tiger to change its stripes in Obama's last year in office.

Listening to all of these hypocrites point to the sanctity of the original meaning of the Constitution and then just abandon the document like it is a set of guidelines to be skirted when it does not suit them is beyond laughable. These guys are just being dicks, plain and simple. Mean spirited, party before country, sore losers. There is no rule that a president can't nominate a justice in his last year as they are suggesting. They would be screaming bloody murder if the Democrats pulled this when there was a Republican president.

If they were not such ham fisted political goons, they would have not said anything and worked to block Obama's nomination in the Senate. Their insistence on drawing a line in the sand was just an idiotic move. They couldn't help themselves. The clumsy political move showed their hand, exposed them as ultra-political; and , IMO, sullied the memory of Justice Scalia. I suspect that their actions will cost them the Senate, in addition to the Presidency. And if they follow through, as I said before, I think the Democratic President should nominate Obama to the Supreme Court as a big FU to the Republicans.
 

woolybug25

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Putting words in other folks' mouths is an even uglier look. In fact, it might be my least favorite personality trait someone can have.

What did I say that was incorrect? You clearly said that you didn't mind because it pushed your agenda, but wouldn't like it in reverse. Never did you say anything about the constitution and the process is clearly laid out in the document.

The job of the Senate isn't to do whatever the President wants. This keeps coming up about how "obstructionist" the Republicans are because they don't rubber-stamp everything Obama wants to do. We're supposed to have equal branches of government, not a singular executive that, by default, is supposed to get whatever he wants with the legislature only there to stop him from doing something egregious. If the president and congress disagree, it's perfectly appropriate for nothing to happen. In fact, the country was designed that way.

It is their responsibility to do their job. If they go into the process clearly stating that they will not consider ANY candidate, then they are clearly disregarding their actual duty. I have no problem with them vetting the nominee with extreme dissidence, but that doesn't mean that they can make predetermined decisions based on obstructing a process that is clearly laid out. Presidents need to do their job. Senators need to do their job. Period.
 

wizards8507

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This is what they have been doing to Obama from Day 1 of his presidency when they proclaimed, "Our No. 1 goal is to ensure Obama is a one-term president." It's been obstruction from start to finish. I don't know why we should expect this tiger to change its stripes in Obama's last year in office.

Listening to all of these hypocrites point to the sanctity of the original meaning of the Constitution and then just abandon the document like it is a set of guidelines to be skirted when it does not suit them is beyond laughable. These guys are just being dicks, plain and simple. Mean spirited, party before country, sore losers. There is no rule that a president can't nominate a justice in his last year as they are suggesting. They would be screaming bloody murder if the Democrats pulled this when there was a Republican president.

If they were not such ham fisted political goons, they would have not said anything and worked to block Obama's nomination in the Senate. Their insistence on drawing a line in the sand was just an idiotic move. They couldn't help themselves. The clumsy political move showed their hand, exposed them as ultra-political; and , IMO, sullied the memory of Justice Scalia. I suspect that their actions will cost them the Senate, in addition to the Presidency. And if they follow through, as I said before, I think the Democratic President should nominate Obama to the Supreme Court as a big FU to the Republicans.
You obviously don't know jack shit about the Constitution. It's very clear that the Senate must "consent" to Obama's appointments. Their decision not to "consent" to a nominee they find unacceptable is just as Constitutionally appropriate as Obama making the nomination in the first place.
 

wizards8507

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If they go into the process clearly stating that they will not consider ANY candidate, then they are clearly disregarding their actual duty.
Did someone say that? Mitch McConnell's statement is below, and it's much less strongly worded than you're implying.

"The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new President."

I'm no Mitch McConnell fan, but that's a long way from "we will not consider ANY candidate."
 

woolybug25

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You obviously don't know jack shit about the Constitution. It's very clear that the Senate must "consent" to Obama's appointments. Their decision not to "consent" to a nominee they find unacceptable is just as Constitutionally appropriate as Obama making the nomination in the first place.

Give me a fuqing break... you really interpret that as consent to the process itself? They aren't supposed to completely disregard the process as a whole. They aren't making a decision either way, they are choosing not to participate by stating they aren't going to approve of any candidate.

It cracks me up because you are the biggest constitutionalist on this board, but yet here you are making exception and trying to justify these actions. If this was in reverse, you know god damn well that you would be screaming from the mountaintops about due process and senate working outside their scope of responsibility.
 

woolybug25

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Did someone say that? Mitch McConnell's statement is below, and it's much less strongly worded than you're implying.

"The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new President."

I'm no Mitch McConnell fan, but that's a long way from "we will not consider ANY candidate."

Wut.... So what decision is he making then? Go ahead... i'll wait...
 

wizards8507

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Wut.... So what decision is he making then? Go ahead... i'll wait...
I honestly don't know, because no nomination attempt has been made by Obama yet. I read it like me saying "I should not have to pay so much taxes." I'm still going to pay my taxes. If Obama puts forth a consensus nominee and the Senate refuses to move on it, I'll be right there with you.
 

pkt77242

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How about Cruz saying that he will filibuster any Supreme Court nominee?
 

woolybug25

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I honestly don't know, because no nomination attempt has been made by Obama yet. I read it like me saying "I should not have to pay so much taxes." I'm still going to pay my taxes. If Obama puts forth a consensus nominee and the Senate refuses to move on it, I'll be right there with you.

McConnell isn't the only one that is talking about this. Trump literally said "Delay... Delay... Delay". What exactly does that mean? You know damn well what it means.

The average time waited is 67 days for a confirmation vote. These dudes want to push that to well over a year in order to get a better shot at picking the nominee. That is not working for the people.
 

NorthDakota

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What did I say that was incorrect? You clearly said that you didn't mind because it pushed your agenda, but wouldn't like it in reverse. Never did you say anything about the constitution and the process is clearly laid out in the document.

So according to the Constitution...correct me if I'm wrong, the President gets to nominate a judge. The Senate will decide if he/she is a good fit.

So if the Senate is following that process, how does that show I don't care about or respect the Constitution?

Honest question here, no hostility intended.
 

woolybug25

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So according to the Constitution...correct me if I'm wrong, the President gets to nominate a judge. The Senate will decide if he/she is a good fit.

So if the Senate is following that process, how does that show I don't care about or respect the Constitution?

Honest question here, no hostility intended.

No worries, and I shouldn't have jumped on you like that in my last post.

That is where I feel the disconnect for me. I would have no problem with senate going through the process and voting down candidates they do not think fit. But they must actually consider them. Right now, that isn't what is happening.

We have Trump saying that we need to find ways to delay the process for over a year. We have Cruz saying that he will filibuster to achieve that delay. We have McConnell urging people not to vote in any nominee and there hasn't even been anyone nominated yet.

That, in my opinion, is a simple dereliction of duty.
 

GoIrish41

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You obviously don't know jack shit about the Constitution. It's very clear that the Senate must "consent" to Obama's appointments. Their decision not to "consent" to a nominee they find unacceptable is just as Constitutionally appropriate as Obama making the nomination in the first place.

Nor did I say it was clear that the Senate must "consent" to any appointments. They aren't electing not to consent to a nominee ... they are suggesting that Obama might as well not nominate anyone. They made it clear that it didn't matter who he nominated ... they were not going to accept him/her. That is a huge difference from not consenting to his nominee. Moreover, I literally said they should have said nothing and not approved the appointment in the Senate. Why must you always be such an insulting dick?
 

ND NYC

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You can't be serious. We have the third highest corporate rates in the world after Chad and UAE. Chad and UAE!? Are you kidding me?

the corporate tax rates are irrelevant when corporations have a 30,000+ page US tax code full of loopholes and deductions they use so they pay hardly any taxes at all.
When a company the size of GE pays no taxes...there's a problem.
 

wizards8507

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the corporate tax rates are irrelevant when corporations have a 30,000+ page US tax code full of loopholes and deductions they use so they pay hardly any taxes at all.
When a company the size of GE pays no taxes...there's a problem.
Two problems, actually. The American people are stupid and politicians are liars.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/04/warren-ge-pays-no-taxes/

Yes, sometimes there are years when companies don't cut a check to the IRS and there are timing variances between GAAP net income and taxable income, but every dollar of profit is taxed in the long run.

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.
 

pkt77242

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Two problems, actually. The American people are stupid and politicians are liars.

Warren: GE Pays No Taxes

Yes, sometimes there are years when companies don't cut a check to the IRS and there are timing variances between GAAP net income and taxable income, but every dollar of profit is taxed in the long run.

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.

Just to be fair, in that article they won't actually say how much they paid in federal income tax just that they did pay some (though most likely a tiny bit). Of course they paid some taxes (payroll, property, etc) but even the company was pretty evasive about their amount of income tax paid. Just as it isn't fair to say the poor people don't pay any taxes (most pay sales tax).

I would say that we have a very high statutory corporate tax rate but the effective tax rate is significantly lower (though still higher than average).
 

wizards8507

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Just to be fair, in that article they won't actually say how much they paid in federal income tax just that they did pay some (though most likely a tiny bit). Of course they paid some taxes (payroll, property, etc) but even the company was pretty evasive about their amount of income tax paid. Just as it isn't fair to say the poor people don't pay any taxes (most pay sales tax).

I would say that we have a very high statutory corporate tax rate but the effective tax rate is significantly lower (though still higher than average).
Again, it's just a timing variance. The IRS calculates things like depreciation on different schedules than the accounting standards but every dollar of net income will eventually be taxed at the marginal rate. It just let's politicians play games about specific tax YEARS when cash payments might be small or nonexistent.
 

pkt77242

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Again, it's just a timing variance. The IRS calculates things like depreciation on different schedules than the accounting standards but every dollar of net income will eventually be taxed at the marginal rate. It just let's politicians play games about specific tax YEARS when cash payments might be small or nonexistent.

Partly. It is also partly due to the sheer amount of deductions for corporations. Let's be honest a corporation like GE lobbies the government for tax breaks that would specifically benefit them. In fact large corporations like GE are a significant advantage over smaller corporations when it comes to the tax code. I am all for lowering corporate rates by getting rid of deductions and loopholes.
 
B

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Sole proprietors (70% of American businesses) pay their business taxes on their person 1040 income taxes. I'm not talking about the CEO of Ford, I'm talking about start-ups and small businessmen.

Since when?

Inequality is not a bad thing.

Scenario 1:
50% of the population makes $50,000
40% of the population makes $75,000
10% of the population makes $100,000

Scenario 2:
50% of the population makes $55,000
40% of the population makes $90,000
10% of the population makes $10,000,000

Yes, fairness with regard to the relationship between Government and individuals, not between individuals and one another. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are filthy rich because they invented products that people need, want, or desire.

If your posts haven't been a defense of the massive wealth accumulation in the 1% then I don't know what is. I mean the scenario you explicitly laid out shows earnings in the 99.9% income percentile and in another thread you rejoiced in the wealth of two of the richest people on the planet...now you want to say we're talking about just the small businesses?

No one in America hate small businesses. There isn't class warfare against small business. It might have something to do with the fact that by and large small businesses aren't the ones closing factories and moving them to China.

And if you're trying to promote small businesses and start ups, going around knocking a progressive tax is not the way to do that. A flat tax would have to be an increase for lower brackets (unless you plan on exploding the deficit), and considering small business owners with less than one year of experience in running an organization earn an annual salary ranging from $34,392 to $75,076, we might want to continue taxing the wealthiest more so the place "where the job creation happens" can be encouraged.

And we might want to switch to single-payer so entrepreneurs aren't tied to their job for health care and can go off on their own and start their own job creation station.

That's where job creation happens. The mega-wealthy and fortune-whatever companies would be largely unaffected by changes in personal income taxation, you're right. But it would stifle the creation of new wealth.

You're making that assumption of a tax plan no one here has brought up.

You can't be serious. We have the third highest corporate rates in the world after Chad and UAE. Chad and UAE!? Are you kidding me?

You can't be serious. The finance man himself doesn't know there are all sorts of deductions that bring the effective tax rate down to slightly below the OECD average? Are you kidding me?

(I for the record would like to see the corporate rate reduced but that can't happen without closing loopholes that big corporations have built...and that can't happen so long as those guys control our political system basically you just don't know it yet but you want to #FeelTheBern.)
 
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woolybug25

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Hey you two's... Take your tax debate to the politics thread. I keep looking for updates on the Justice debate or Scalia (Trump thinks he was murdered, btw) and have to read your tax debate.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Every time we have let the people actually make the decisions, things have turned out exceedingly well, even in times of crisis. However, every time powerful special interests, or corporations, or business interests, or even powerful political machines have jumped into similar situations, it has proven catastrophic. For example the Civil War; tensions were manufactured, exploited for monetary gain, and the common people were incited to incredible blood lust, by special interests that posed as benevolent entities that had the people's best interest at heart. Control is control; no matter how sophisticated.

And why does exercising this kind of control on the American citizenry not work? It is analogous to the kid whose life is totally controlled by parents. What happens after the inevitable, drug addiction, acting out, etc. It is the same thing, the country slices it self into distinct pieces, and the schisms become so great there is a general collapse in the social goodwill of the population. Americans treat Americans badly.

Now if Scalia or you were to attribute the current crisis to the interests that promoted it fine. But the solution, if those interests back off, or are exposed, is bound to be very dynamic and conciliatory.

From a historical perspective, there's a clear and consistent trend of demagogues riding populist sentiments into power with disastrous results. So while I sympathize with the current zeitgeist in many ways, I think it represents a real danger to the stability of the republic, and I'd like to see our governing elites respond to it positively rather than court a violent revolution.

I'm also very skeptical of political narratives that blame a single group for whatever currently ails the nation; such explanations are just "pat" to be believable, and they encourage scape-goating. Yes, the disproportionate influence that wealthy special interests have within the Beltway is a problem, but that corruption was only made possible because We the People allowed it to. The problem, at root, is with us, and what we believe (and no longer believe); so passing effective campaign finance reform (lol) will merely be treating the symptom, and not the disease.

The next issue I had with logic had to do with your quoting Scalia on the devil. Granted if anyone is an expert, it should be Anton. But you went on to say he nailed it. And a big part of his quote was that "a majority of Americans believe in the devil." That so reminded me of my parents automatic reply to us when we stated that 'everyone was doing it!' The of course responded with the clichéd question, "Would you jump off the bridge if everyone was doing it?" Corny, but right on. The majority of Americans believe in UFO's, that dragons lived in medieval times, ghosts, spirits, mediums, and that whomever really isn't going to cum in your mouth! (Either as do-ee or doer.)

Also, I believe the majority of Americans have a mental illness of some sort, even though most are relatively minor. Add to that to all the obsolete customs and beliefs that don't any longer work in our society, (racism, sexism, etc.,) then I particularly don't care what a majority of people believe; or in turn believe that makes something true or false.

I want to make it clear, I don't have a problem with anyone who believes in a devil. Whether it be the model built in the Books of the Old Testament, or otherwise. As long as they believe in it truly to make more sense of the world. As soon as an individual uses it as an excuse for their bad behavior, or a justification for any behavior or thought that may be injurious to others, whether it be theirs or part of a dogma or belief system they maintain, I have a problem. In fact I will go a step further. For example the witch trials of Western Europe, and the Inquisition, in whole, are perfect examples of mass societal mental illness, and its derogatory effects when united under the leadership of a particular entity.

I simply shared an article about Scalia's passing written by TAC's Rod Dreher; he attempts to tie together some disparate arguments there (especially at the end), and I didn't intend to endorse everything within it. I had been looking for an article that captured some of my anxiety about the most influential conservative Justice dying now, when several important cases regarding religious liberty are coming before the Supreme Court, and when our citizenry is so polarized and disillusioned with politics. Dreher's article came the closest to expressing it.

This isn't the place to debate the biblical foundation for fallen angels or the legitimacy of divine revelation. Suffice it to say that many people much smarter than you or I (Pope Francis, Thomas Aquinas, etc.) believe in the Devil.

Again back to my counter point one : These are perfect examples of where things go wrong if any special interest, or entity, no matter how well intentioned, champions a cause, past the unaffected will of the people.

And that my friend is what the Supreme Court is for, is to act against this mechanism, among other things, when it is present.

America's Founders knew well the dangers of unbridled populism, which is why they created a federated republic limited by a bill of rights instead of a direct democracy.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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The NYT's Ross Douthat just published an article titled "The War After Scalia":

In the wake of Antonin Scalia’s death, two lines of critique are circulating concerning Senate Republicans’ immediate declaration that they won’t approve any replacement before the next president is elected and inaugurated. The first, offered by David Frum, Chris Cillizza and others, holds that Mitch McConnell and Co. would have been better served politically by pretending to consider an Obama nominee and then simply using a sixty-vote threshold to avoid approval, rather than coming across as baldly intransigent from day one. The second one, offered by Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern (who wrote one of the more generous liberal eulogies for Scalia), goes further and argues that Senate Republicans are gambling significantly by declining to approve a moderate-liberal nominee, since if they lose the Senate and the White House this fall they could end up with a more radical, precedent-overturning liberal on the court instead of a compromise choice. Here’s Stern:

Whatever the merits of the constitutional argument, the Republicans’ political strategy here is extremely risky. It makes some sense at first blush—better to roll the dice that a President Rubio or Bush will get to appoint Scalia’s successor—but completely falls apart upon further analysis. There are serious compromise candidates on the current shortlist, extraordinarily qualified moderates like Sri Srinivasan who would likely refuse to overturn treasured conservative precedents like Heller (establishing an individual right to bear arms) and Citizens United (allowing unlimited corporate electioneering). If the Senate confirmed a Srinivasan type now, it might have to swallow a slight liberal SCOTUS tilt—but it could, by and large, avoid dramatically altering the balance of the court.

If the Senate holds out until January 2017, however, it will be taking an astonishing gamble. Should voters send another Democrat to the White House in November, they just may turn the Senate blue again at the same time. At that point, the president could nominate a true liberal, in the vein of Justice Sonia Sotomayor—and Senate Democrats could revise the nuclear option and push him or her through over staunch GOP opposition. Once a Justice Goodwin Liu takes the bench, no conservative precedent would be safe. Goodbye Heller, goodbye Citizens United, goodbye McCutcheon and Hobby Lobby and maybe even the death penalty itself.

This is plausible-enough in a historical vacuum, but it collapses if you understand how conservatives regard their experience with Supreme Court nominees. Since 1968, the year that the modern right-of-center political majority was born, Republican presidents have made twelve appointments to the Supreme Court; Democratic presidents have made just four. Yet those twelve Republican appointments, while they did push the court rightward, never delivered the kind of solid 6-3 or 7-2 conservative majority that one might have expected to emerge. Instead, John Paul Stevens, David Souter and Harry Blackmun all went on to become outspoken liberals, Blackmun and Anthony Kennedy went on to author decisions sweeping away the nation’s abortion laws and redefining marriage, Sandra Day O’Connor and Kennedy both ratified Roe v. Wade — and so on down a longer list of disappointments and betrayals.

Meanwhile, none of the four recent Democratic appointees, whether “moderate” or liberal, have moved meaningfully rightward during their tenures. On the crucial cases of the last decade (including the cases Stern lists) they’ve reliably voted as a bloc. The most genuinely unpredictable of the four, Stephen Breyer, is basically crusading to eliminate the death penalty already. The more moderate of President Obama’s two appointments, Elena Kagan, has voted with the more liberal Sonia Sotamayor more reliably (especially in 5-4 decisions) than, say, Scalia voted with John Roberts. And the court’s only actual swing vote remains, of course, a Republican appointee.

So telling Republicans that they should accept a moderate liberal lest they risk a real liberal is likely to inspire a bitter chuckle, since from the perspective of conservatives they risk at least a moderate liberal in practically every appointment anyway. (Including the last Republican president’s, since most fairly or not many conservatives feel they dodged a bullet with Harriet Miers.) And if you’re starting from that kind of disadvantage, you simply can’t afford to throw away even a chance at appointing a real conservative in the name of a play-it-safe compromise: If there’s one thing conservatives have learned from forty years of judicial appointment battles, it’s that when you compromise, you lose.

Further, you lose the most on the issues that animate the party’s socially-conservative voting base — as opposed to donors, think-tankers and the Chamber of Commerce —because it’s social issues where time and again the elite consensus has tugged Republican appointees leftward.

So it’s not just that conservatives have good reasons to be more skeptical than Stern that even a “moderate” Obama appointee would ultimately hesitate to overturn (or at least carefully undercut) some of the precedents he cites; it’s that on certain issues they have extremely well-grounded anxieties. Tell the average conservative voter that they should accept an Obama appointee in the hopes of preserving Citizens United and McCutcheon, and they’re likely to stare blankly and then shrug when you explain the campaign-finance law implications. But tell them that, despite having a fighting chance to replace him with a conservative, they should trade their great champion and bulwark on abortion, marriage and religious liberty — to borrow from one eulogy, “the mighty rearguard in our long and slow defeat” — for an Obama appointee at a moment when social liberalism is ascendant and the legal and cultural consequences of same-sex marriage are beginning to ripple across the country and the courts … well, they’ll look at you like you’re insane.

And they would be right to do so. There is some gambling involved in resisting an Obama pick, certainly; there’s some chance of a worse outcome overall. But given the plausible hope of replacing the court’s most important conservative with another conservative, accepting a supposedly-moderate liberal without an electoral fight would be remembered forever as the G.O.P.’s greatest betrayal of social conservatives, its final surrender in the culture wars.

And this is, I suspect, why Mitch McConnell took the hard-line stance he did. The optics are bad, yes, but if you act publicly as though confirmation is entirely possible and plausible, then you increase the pressure on purple-state Republicans to go a little further and actually say that their votes are up for grabs. And this, in turn, would raise the spectre of a Great Betrayal — however implausible it might be — for suspicious conservatives, and create the preconditions for a basically pointless base-versus-leadership war in the middle of a presidential year. Whereas a harder line gives clear direction to the Rob Portmans and Ron Johnsons that this is what we’re doing, get on board, and the lumps you take are ones you would probably take anyway when you failed to confirm Obama’s pick, and there’s no risk of a full-scale conservative panic attack over the possibility that their leadership and senators might sell them out.

The counter-argument is that a Portman might survive in Ohio if he votes for (let’s say) an African-American nominee who goes down (let’s say) 52-48. But that kind of targeted politics hasn’t worked particularly well in our nationalized political environment lately, and it seems even less likely to work in a presidential year. (If Republican intransigence boosts black turnout for Hillary in Cleveland or Cincinnati, those extra voters probably aren’t going to think, “oh, but Portman was on our side, let’s keep him in office.”) And it’s always possible, in a country where many millions of people don’t even recognize Antonin Scalia’s name, that Senate intransigence will energize conservatives more than it excites liberals or alienates swing voters.

Which is not to say that conservatives are in an enviable position. This is a bad, backs-to-the-wall situation no matter what happens. But the good options for the right died with Scalia last Thursday night. What remains is what remains: The choice between pre-emptive surrender and a perhaps-foredoomed but still necessary last stand.
 
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