ScooterIrish
New member
- Messages
- 523
- Reaction score
- 36
I'm happy with the end results against Temple and BC, but I still worry about the run scheme against good teams. I'm not convinced we will be able to run the ball against those teams.
Post Game Thoughts: Boston College
- Thread starter connor_in
- Start date
I'm happy with the end results against Temple and BC, but I still worry about the run scheme against good teams. I'm not convinced we will be able to run the ball against those teams.
- Messages
- 19,127
- Reaction score
- 11,071
Who at ND has a bunch of burner accounts to troll people?
My money is on Mike Brey. Guy seems like fun, I bet he trolls his own guys on social media when he's bored.
- Messages
- 44,569
- Reaction score
- 20,018
Sparty is typically good against the run, so Saturday should give us an indication if we're still improving the run game. Of course we could rush for 300+ and some will say this wasn't the typical Sparty defense.
FightingIrishLover7
All troll, no substance
- Messages
- 12,703
- Reaction score
- 7,514
ND fans (a lot of them, anyway):
"We need to be able to destroy our lesser opponents!!"
**destroys lesser opponents**
"We only destroyed them, because they were a lesser opponent!!"
God bless our fan base.
ThePiombino
The OG "TP"
- Messages
- 16,476
- Reaction score
- 6,245
Granted, there have certainly been some bad drops, but our WRs are getting separation. ESB has been WIDE OPEN on a number of occasions and BW just isn't seeing it or he's pulling it and panicking in the pocket too early, etc. WRs def need to step up, but I don't think separation is as bad as it seems.
Last edited:
ThePiombino
The OG "TP"
- Messages
- 16,476
- Reaction score
- 6,245
Yup. When LSU of past put up 500 yards against Directional State U., everyone spoke about how dominant their running game was -- even though their passing game was eerily similar to ours at the moment. No one said, yeah but...
FightingIrishLover7
All troll, no substance
- Messages
- 12,703
- Reaction score
- 7,514
Yes, EQ has been wide open sometimes, and Brandon needs to continue to see and hit him in those moments.
However, there are still plenty of times he's struggling to get open, therefore, by not consistently beating the defender, ala Will Fuller, Michael Floyd, Golden Tate style, it results in the (young) QB struggling to gain continuity and the ability to recognize when he will be "open" coming out of his breaks.
Additionally, outside of EQ's good moments, who else is creating separation? Brandon needs more than one target. The TE's have been the best in these situations, but typically running short routes. The #2 - 4 receivers need to step it up as well.
Once we can consistently can get multiple options open on the majority of the plays, it'll really begin to open the throttle of this offense.
STLDomer
Schmitty
- Messages
- 9,426
- Reaction score
- 549
Diaco definitely did.
stlnd01
Was away. Now returned.
- Messages
- 13,386
- Reaction score
- 10,247
That's fair. And Georgia effectively shut us down. But likely no one else on our schedule has Georgia's front seven. Michigan State should be a good barometer of how good we actually are at running the football.
Shamrock Theories
New member
- Messages
- 811
- Reaction score
- 42
Couldn't watch the game live, just watched the full game on youtube and read through the whole thread. I knew the result, so I'd like to think I could watch pretty analytically without emotion.
-The defense played a decent-to-good game against a weak offensive opponent. Some really nice plays from Crawford (obviously), Love, Tillery, Coney, Morgan and even Myron T-A on that 4th down stop.
-Josh played well, but really on his big runs it was 90% the OL opening up Grand Canyons to stroll through. On pulling plays, the OL at the point of attack did a great job making room for the pulling Guards/Tackles/TE's.
-I still don't understand why Tony Jones is getting reps over Dexter. It really doesn't pass the "eye test".
-Brandon is an explosive, elusive athlete and it was on full display.
Now for the "bad"
I'm flabbergasted that anyone can defend Brandon's passing at this point. It's not the receivers, the Tight ends, the OL.
He repeatedly
-Failed to stay in the pocket for more than 2 seconds despite great protection
-Skied the ball on any and all routes over the middle
-Overthrew deep balls.
This team is playing really well and will be 5-1 going into USC. If Brandon can calm down and throw the ball accurately, 11-1 becomes possible. Otherwise, 9 wins +- one.
-The defense played a decent-to-good game against a weak offensive opponent. Some really nice plays from Crawford (obviously), Love, Tillery, Coney, Morgan and even Myron T-A on that 4th down stop.
-Josh played well, but really on his big runs it was 90% the OL opening up Grand Canyons to stroll through. On pulling plays, the OL at the point of attack did a great job making room for the pulling Guards/Tackles/TE's.
-I still don't understand why Tony Jones is getting reps over Dexter. It really doesn't pass the "eye test".
-Brandon is an explosive, elusive athlete and it was on full display.
Now for the "bad"
I'm flabbergasted that anyone can defend Brandon's passing at this point. It's not the receivers, the Tight ends, the OL.
He repeatedly
-Failed to stay in the pocket for more than 2 seconds despite great protection
-Skied the ball on any and all routes over the middle
-Overthrew deep balls.
This team is playing really well and will be 5-1 going into USC. If Brandon can calm down and throw the ball accurately, 11-1 becomes possible. Otherwise, 9 wins +- one.
K
koonja
Guest
Hater how dare you he's only a Junior Tony Rice won 30 years ago be gone troll!
beryirish
Dry Land Is Not A Myth!
- Messages
- 5,949
- Reaction score
- 539
Punctuation is your friend, my friend.
K
koonja
Guest
I was doing my best to imitate those silly enough to defend BW's passing game in every way.
- Messages
- 19,127
- Reaction score
- 11,071
I wouldn't say that anyone is *defending* his passing problems.
I've seen people reasoning as to why he might be struggling, and theorizing about how it could get better, or theorizing as to why it might not matter as much as some think.
Everyone knows he's been bad throwing the ball. But to act like it's ridiculous that a junior can't step in and have success right away isn't a full-proof argument, either.
ab2cmiller
Troublemaker in training
- Messages
- 11,452
- Reaction score
- 8,531
He used an exclamation point I thought that was impressive although now that I think about it I wonder if he could've done more?
K
koonja
Guest
It won't matter against Temple, or BC. It will matter against Georgia, USC, Miami, and probably some other loss coming up.
I just have a problem with people acting like all is well because we can beat a team easily who we're better at at every position, without foreseeing the flaws that have to improve dramatically for us to even split our real games (USC, Georgia, Stanford, Miami). This is as complete a team as we've had under Kelly, and it hurts to see that the passing game, while expected to be a strength, is our biggest weakness right now. It's not the DL, it's not the corners, it's not the OL, TE, etc - it's our passing game.
BW has talent - but he's at rock bottom right now as a passer and he needs to improve every week if we're going to have a shot at splitting with our top 25 type teams. Let's hope him and the staff are up for it. I'd love to know Tommy Rees's style right now in coaching. He must be feeling the pressure being that he's new at this.
I won't comment on BW until after MSU game.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 44,569
- Reaction score
- 20,018
Who's defending him? I think everyone agrees he can do better. There are some that believe the receivers have "some" blame, but not entirely.
K
koonja
Guest
It's not that people think he's doing well. It's that they they this play is normal because it's his first year starting.
And that's dead wrong. It's college football. He's a Junior. It's BC and he had 96 yards passing. RS freshman QB play way better than this every single year with worse OL, worse WRs, and/or against teams with better talent. It is not normal how bad he's been, and it wasn't just BC.
He has an opportunity to take a step forward against MSU. They're not Alabama, but they'll be a tough defense on the road. I'm excited to see if he makes progress. I will give him props if he shows progress.
BW has definitely had a few issues in the passing game.
Happy feet
Inaccurate passes
Less than adequate reads
Less than stellar receiving play
But, all these issues are fixable. Imho BW's next step has to become comfortable in the pocket. As an athlete he is 10 out of 10. He is in the same class as Watson and Hunt. His receivers also have to step up.
And here's the thing. After rushing for 200+ yds against BC, no DC can set up the defence to shut down BW as a passer. To do so would be suicide.
So if BW can progress between now and the USC game, this offence has a chance to be amazing.
If he can't than the two options are
Change the offence to a run centric program, or keep the same offence and have Book run it.
Pretty simple.
Happy feet
Inaccurate passes
Less than adequate reads
Less than stellar receiving play
But, all these issues are fixable. Imho BW's next step has to become comfortable in the pocket. As an athlete he is 10 out of 10. He is in the same class as Watson and Hunt. His receivers also have to step up.
And here's the thing. After rushing for 200+ yds against BC, no DC can set up the defence to shut down BW as a passer. To do so would be suicide.
So if BW can progress between now and the USC game, this offence has a chance to be amazing.
If he can't than the two options are
Change the offence to a run centric program, or keep the same offence and have Book run it.
Pretty simple.
beryirish
Dry Land Is Not A Myth!
- Messages
- 5,949
- Reaction score
- 539
Old Man Mike
Fast as Lightning!
- Messages
- 8,959
- Reaction score
- 6,450
My usual optimism:
A). Phil Steele rated BCs DLine as a top-ten unit (Georgia was 6th or 7th TOTAL defense and the toughest we'll see on that side.) We opened BC up pretty regularly and ran wild in the end.
B). Running the ball a lot means you're not passing it as much. BW is obviously nervous --- understandably. What I hope is that he's not TOO MUCH of a thinker. He, at the moment looks as if he's doing too much hesitating on game elements which should not be hesitated upon, and too much happy feet when that is not the best idea. In short, he looks like a responsibly-minded nervous rookie.
C). That last reminded me somewhat of Tyrod Taylor in his earlier years at VT. He was all over the place too excitable or too earnest also. But he settled in and calm intensity arrived. Zaire seemed to have this naturally; so very quickly did Kizer. And Tommy. BW is more like Golson with brains. If he evolves into Taylor in Taylor's junior year, we'll have an All-American (I'm assuming that this ZEN will include proper footwork when passing --- Tommy, Kelly, and Long have to be working him crazy about that.)
D). Our OLine is REAL good. No one blocks the other guys every play. I wish we'd get off that unreasonable standard. I saw Dana Holgerson get caught by a sideline commentator at the VT game. She asked him how he was going to defeat the VT defense in the second half. Holgerson laughed. He said: Well, they're going to make some plays. There are a lot of good athletes out there.
E). Our DLine also looks good so far. Georgia did NOT just run us over. Our linebackers look pretty solid, especially Tranquill. I have no idea why people cannot see how well Martini is playing. I see him almost always with the correct fills. I easily see why the staff is rotating the heavy hitters (Morgan/Martini/Coney.) Almost none of the scoring drives have been with Martini on the field. The DBacks look pretty good to me as well.
F). On the downside, I think that it's way too Koolaid to believe that our WR corps is getting regularly open, despite BWs difficulties spotting quick openings over the middle. (I think that we have a little height issue again here.) Someone here bad-mouthed Chris Finke --- I think that a quicker guy like him going over the middle is one of the things that we need. I thought that he was open at least twice vs BC. Can BW see him? Sanders?
G). I've seen only one decent KO return and I believe that it's mostly on Sanders there. I'd REALLY like to see Finke or Williams get a shot. The rest of the special teams work seems good.
As I felt way before the season: this team will vary WILDLY depending upon how BW calms down. If that happens quickly we will be VERY dangerous. ... and Georgia will be thanking their lucky stars that they played us early. I'm thinking that it's going to take BW at least three more games. When he first begins to step into his throws and really fire it down the field, I'll exhale.
A). Phil Steele rated BCs DLine as a top-ten unit (Georgia was 6th or 7th TOTAL defense and the toughest we'll see on that side.) We opened BC up pretty regularly and ran wild in the end.
B). Running the ball a lot means you're not passing it as much. BW is obviously nervous --- understandably. What I hope is that he's not TOO MUCH of a thinker. He, at the moment looks as if he's doing too much hesitating on game elements which should not be hesitated upon, and too much happy feet when that is not the best idea. In short, he looks like a responsibly-minded nervous rookie.
C). That last reminded me somewhat of Tyrod Taylor in his earlier years at VT. He was all over the place too excitable or too earnest also. But he settled in and calm intensity arrived. Zaire seemed to have this naturally; so very quickly did Kizer. And Tommy. BW is more like Golson with brains. If he evolves into Taylor in Taylor's junior year, we'll have an All-American (I'm assuming that this ZEN will include proper footwork when passing --- Tommy, Kelly, and Long have to be working him crazy about that.)
D). Our OLine is REAL good. No one blocks the other guys every play. I wish we'd get off that unreasonable standard. I saw Dana Holgerson get caught by a sideline commentator at the VT game. She asked him how he was going to defeat the VT defense in the second half. Holgerson laughed. He said: Well, they're going to make some plays. There are a lot of good athletes out there.
E). Our DLine also looks good so far. Georgia did NOT just run us over. Our linebackers look pretty solid, especially Tranquill. I have no idea why people cannot see how well Martini is playing. I see him almost always with the correct fills. I easily see why the staff is rotating the heavy hitters (Morgan/Martini/Coney.) Almost none of the scoring drives have been with Martini on the field. The DBacks look pretty good to me as well.
F). On the downside, I think that it's way too Koolaid to believe that our WR corps is getting regularly open, despite BWs difficulties spotting quick openings over the middle. (I think that we have a little height issue again here.) Someone here bad-mouthed Chris Finke --- I think that a quicker guy like him going over the middle is one of the things that we need. I thought that he was open at least twice vs BC. Can BW see him? Sanders?
G). I've seen only one decent KO return and I believe that it's mostly on Sanders there. I'd REALLY like to see Finke or Williams get a shot. The rest of the special teams work seems good.
As I felt way before the season: this team will vary WILDLY depending upon how BW calms down. If that happens quickly we will be VERY dangerous. ... and Georgia will be thanking their lucky stars that they played us early. I'm thinking that it's going to take BW at least three more games. When he first begins to step into his throws and really fire it down the field, I'll exhale.
Last edited:
NDohio
Well-known member
- Messages
- 5,869
- Reaction score
- 3,060
Ah Koon being Koon.
Most of us that have been "defending" Brandon's passing are not actually defending Brandon's passing. What got the conversation going was a poster early on that said to bench BW for Ian and then the whole "he is a junior, he can't get any better" argument started rolling. Some of us think he actually can improve and are hopeful that by USC we can have an adequate passing game. BW did have above a 70% completion percentage throughout his HS career and that gives us hope that he can get on track as the season progresses.
irishff1014
Well-known member
- Messages
- 26,509
- Reaction score
- 9,283
stlnd01
Was away. Now returned.
- Messages
- 13,386
- Reaction score
- 10,247
Exactly.
Also it's not like we have some better option sitting on the bench. Don't give me that Ian Book noise. This team will go as far as Wimbush can take them.
ND87
Well-known member
- Messages
- 978
- Reaction score
- 378
We practiced running the ball against Temple.
We practiced passing the ball against Georgia... 3-5 more catches, and we win that game.
We practiced running the ball against BC.
I have not seen MSU play, but I'm guessing we're going to see a more balanced attack, slightly favoring run. 60/40?
And, using the transitive property, a W.
We practiced passing the ball against Georgia... 3-5 more catches, and we win that game.
We practiced running the ball against BC.
I have not seen MSU play, but I'm guessing we're going to see a more balanced attack, slightly favoring run. 60/40?
And, using the transitive property, a W.
You are being deliberately obtuse. POWLUS BEAT OUT MCDOUGAL FOR THE JOB AND WAS THE NAMED STARTER for the season before he broke his collarbone. Guess what? He broke it, and McDougal, despite not being named the starter or having the most reps, which Ron did have, went out and led ND to its best season since 1989.
3 games into a season in which we has going to be the backup, again, and he was leading our team to a nearly perfect season...and he did that with fewer than 20 percent of the snaps in spring practice.
Brady Quinn also started four years, but the point is that Wimbush was a known quantity.
Kelly knew that he was not a good QB. Heck, he talked about how good he was to the press, just the opposite of how Lou did it, by badmouthing the team in the press. Everyone knew that BW was the question mark, and that he was not ready. Even Kelly, if you asked him to be honest...which I am not sure he ever will be.
Wimbush was only allowed to RUN in games, and those were designed RPO plays, mate. They knew Brandon was not a passer. Having a great arm does not make you a great passer. It just means you have a great arm. BW does not have it mentally, clearly, but McDougal, Clausen and Quinn did, even as young as they were. Heck, we run a different offense than they did under Holtz, so completion percentage over a career is meaningless. That is like comparing SF Joe Montana to ND Montana. It is that inane.
Joe Montana was a CAREER 52 percent passer at ND. Do you honestly think that Wimbush or McDougal, Clausen or Qunn were better QBs, over their life, than Joe Montana? No. Putting all your stock in career college stats is just silly. Montana has light years better than all of them, but he was not on their level as far as arm talent or mobility. But, he was clearly the most mentally ready QB of them all, and it showed in his play, even in college.
Last edited:
Powlus wasn't a student for Spring ball. ND didn't take Early Admissions for football back then. He arrived on campus in August and won the job in Preseason Camp was trying to push his transition from Triple OP to Pro Set/Blarney Offense. I would suspect Powlus reps pre-injury were Pass oriented and McDougal as backup was Triple OP oriented, a scheme he had trained in for 3 seasons prior to Powlus injury.
Montana was a 52% career passer at ND and an all pro at SF. Fans still raved about Montana 4th quarter hot streaks where he was 7 of 8 or something like that to erase a 2 TD lead and win the game. Think about, if he was a 52% with those hot 4th quarter streaks, his first 3 quarters had to suck. (Similar to ND's comeback in the 4th Q against BC in '93. Where were ND and McDougal for the first 3 quarters while BC was building up a 3 TD lead?)
Montana had terrible college practice habits and was at loggerheads with Devine. When he arrived at SF, there was a great coach with a scheme that actually was perfect for Montana's abilities, PLUS, Joe listened to that coach or his PAYCHECK was going to go down the drain. Montana matured considerably at SF AND learned how to practice, hour after hour.
Wimbush was a 70% in HS. He wasn't terrible. He's also has 2 years of preparation in Kelly's offense. Unlike Powlus, he didn't step on campus 30 days before the season began. The competition is obviously better in college than HS but he didn't start his career against FSU, USC, or VT's Secondary. UGA has a defensive FRONT. BC and Temple aren't 1aa but there not Top Power 5 Secondaries either.
Also where this "everybody knew Wimbush wasn't very good" come from? Wasn't he like the #3 Dual QB with an impressive highlight tape thowing strikes in stride to receivers deep downfield. One was like 60-65 yds on the fly.
Wimbush was the reason largely discussed here last winter/spring as the reason Zaire was bolting early. It wasn't because of his stellar performance in a 4 win seasons. Zaire could hit a strike downfield then throw the couple of balls over the heads of receivers or 6 feet in front of their feet. Zaire had the tools but wasn't consistent. Practicing more than the NCAA permitted 20 hours a week should help like ala Montana.
Rewatching Wimbush's HS clip, on most plays there was a designated receiver, one guy, that he followed downfield than let it fly. He did not appear to be running through progressions at all. OK that's new to his game BUT he's had TWO years of physical training, film study, and practices to grow into it. He's a 3rd year man, almost 21 years old, not like 18 year old Rees who was thrown into his first game when ND's starter Crist told his coaches after a punt change of possession, "I don't think I can play." Rees had about 30 seconds "to get ready".
Last edited: