South Carolina Cop Charged with Murder

[IrishinSyria]

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This is really disturbing. The cop claims he fired because he feared for his life because the guy took his taser in a scuffle, and maybe that's true, but it's impossible to watch this video and not think that murder is the right charge. Warning: the video is footage of a man being shot to death.

 

[GoldenDomer]

What the actual fuck...

 

[GoldenDomer]

Because he went for his taser? When the guy took a swipe at it, the officer drew his gun. As he starts to run away, he starts firing. Fuck this cop.

 

[Zwidmanio]

He was in fear for his life as the man was running from him? I don't know all the circumstances surrounding this incident and confrontation, but I don't see any justification for extent of that use of force in the video.

 

[IrishinSyria]

He was in fear for his life as the man was running from him? I don't know all the circumstances surrounding this incident and confrontation, but I don't see any justification for extent of that use of force in the video.

Yeah. Especially because you can see the cop car in the direction the guy was running. In the longer video on the NYtimes' website, another cop shows up to try to render first aid after the shooter cuffs the victim and walks away. You don't see where he comes from in the video, but presumably the second cop came from the police car, and could have intercepted the suspect.

Absolutely no reason to shoot here.

 

[BobbyMac]

Brave dude with the camera. If I was filming a cop shoot somebody in the back 8 times, I wouldn't walk towards them... I'd be running the other way calling a lawyer then the newspaper.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Brave dude with the camera. If I was filming a cop shoot somebody in the back 8 times, I wouldn't walk towards them... I'd be running the other way calling a lawyer then the newspaper.

Yeah, the entire thing is almost surreal. In-between the cameraman walking forward, the cop taking the time to aim before shooting and then giving instructions for the guy to get his hands on his back, and the slow motion collapse of the victim, its tough for my brain to register what's actually going on.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

The video on the NY Times site is pretty damning. Good Lord this is exactly what causes people to hate Cops and puts lives on both side of the badge in danger. This guy is a lunatic.

 

[Irish YJ]

Yes, very brave.

I'm assuming the defense will be:

1. pulled the guy over for a busted tail light
2. ran his plates, he had a warrant and a history of violence (A&B) and weapons charges (bludgeon)
3. approached the suspect who resisted. fired the taser but the suspect went for taser gun or gun
4. suspect took my taser and ran. fearing for public saftey due to suspects history and the fact he attacked me, i fired

I personally don't think this level of force was required, but prosecution will not be walk in the park. the thing that really hurts the guy's defense is that he drops something (looks like a gun or taser gun) near the suspect. Will be interesting to learn what it actually was, and what was the excuse for dropping it there. Assuming it was a gun or taser gun, the guy is dirty.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Yeah, the entire thing is almost surreal. In-between the cameraman walking forward, the cop taking the time to aim before shooting and then giving instructions for the guy to get his hands on his back, and the slow motion collapse of the victim, its tough for my brain to register what's actually going on.

Exactly. It's hard to watch.

 

[Circa]

Please stop this madness! Please! Law Enforcement has met their maker if not.

 

[BGIF]

Greyhammer posted the article link in the Ferguson thread. Here's what I posted there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/u...-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html

NSFW

I don't know what the protocol is when the "suspect" has your TASER. IF, he has your TASER. In Brown, the struggle over the gun in the car created a fear for life situation. There was different perspectives over whether Brown was still a threat when shot, I don't see any the prospect for different prespective from this video. Condolences to the family.

I can't tell from the video if Walter Scott ever had the TASER. At the 19 second mark of the video, Scott has turned and is fleeing away from officer Michael Slager. The TASER is on the ground a foot or two behind Scott and closer to Scott than Slager BUT clearly on the ground. IF he was a threat, the threat seems greatly diminished (neutralized) with Scott fleeing.

From what I read, TASER's have a range of 15-35 feet with a maximum effective range of 25 feet. Walter Scott appears to be outside the effective range when he was shot fleeing and the TASER is on the ground in front of Slager. Unlike Brown, Scott never turns around and comes toward officer, Michael Slager. At 24 seconds he's down on all fours and when he's down never gets back up.

The video doesn't show what transpired before the TASER is on the ground and Scott flees. There may have been a struggle previously but IF so that's gone by the time we get to see.

Based soley on that video I would expect the charge that was filed.

 

[Redbar]

The video on the NY Times site is pretty damning. Good Lord this is exactly what causes people to hate Cops and puts lives on both side of the badge in danger. This guy is a lunatic.

I haven't seen the video, but I wonder, without the video, if we simply had the report that the guy fled and grabbed the cops taser, how many would be defending the cops actions? Which begs the question, how come we can afford camera's all over most metropolitan areas, to hopefully catch the absolutely random crime or speeder, no matter if the local community opposes it? Why do police departments have tactical units with armored vehicles, infrared cameras, some even have drones, but we can't put cameras on cops to monitor their interactions and insure that they are not abusing the authority that we give to them, or to simply help train them in ways to better protect themselves and avoid escalating interactions into deadly encounters. How often would actually seeing it change our perspective of the encounter?

 

[Irish YJ]

I haven't seen the video, but I wonder, without the video, if we simply had the report that the guy fled and grabbed the cops taser, how many would be defending the cops actions? Which begs the question, how come we can afford camera's all over most metropolitan areas, to hopefully catch the absolutely random crime or speeder, no matter if the local community opposes it? Why do Police departments have tactical units with armored vehicles, infrared cameras, some even have drones, but we can't put cameras on cops to monitor their interactions and insure that they are not abusing the authority that we give to them, or to simply help train them in ways to better protect themselves and avoid escalating interactions into deadly encounters. How often would actually seeing it change our perspective of the encounter?

This. No reason body cams should not be deployed nationally. An everyday joe can wear a gocam, why can't our police.

 

[Grahambo]

I haven't seen the video, but I wonder, without the video, if we simply had the report that the guy fled and grabbed the cops taser, how many would be defending the cops actions? Which begs the question, how come we can afford camera's all over most metropolitan areas, to hopefully catch the absolutely random crime or speeder, no matter if the local community opposes it? Why do police departments have tactical units with armored vehicles, infrared cameras, some even have drones, but we can't put cameras on cops to monitor their interactions and insure that they are not abusing the authority that we give to them, or to simply help train them in ways to better protect themselves and avoid escalating interactions into deadly encounters. How often would actually seeing it change our perspective of the encounter?

*Raises hand*

When my wife was reading to me what happened, I thought the cop was absolutely in the right for fear of life because of fear of life. Someone takes you out with a taser can then easily take your weapon.

But...

Seeing the video completely changed my view. The cop who shot will now face the consequence of his actions just like everyone else and since he was charged with murder, his consequences are coming head on.

And I've been involved in a high profile police shooting before which was basically the complete opposite of this.

 

[ACamp1900]

Yeah, that made me very upset, based on the video alone he deserves a nice life sentence...

 

[Circa]

I haven't seen the video, but I wonder, without the video, if we simply had the report that the guy fled and grabbed the cops taser, how many would be defending the cops actions? Which begs the question, how come we can afford camera's all over most metropolitan areas, to hopefully catch the absolutely random crime or speeder, no matter if the local community opposes it? Why do police departments have tactical units with armored vehicles, infrared cameras, some even have drones, but we can't put cameras on cops to monitor their interactions and insure that they are not abusing the authority that we give to them, or to simply help train them in ways to better protect themselves and avoid escalating interactions into deadly encounters. How often would actually seeing it change our perspective of the encounter?

Small town USA doesn't understand. and never will as long as we have heroes day every year! I would recommend a day of mourning. 9/11 did things to this country that we'll never get back. Peace!!

 

[dylan020]

I don't know what the protocol is when the "suspect" has your TASER.



The video doesn't show what transpired before the TASER is on the ground and Scott flees. There may have been a struggle previously but IF so that's gone by the time we get to see.

Based soley on that video I would expect the charge that was filed.

1. If you grab my taser (if I carried one), that can render me incapacitated briefly enough for you to grab my weapon. I would use force there if needed. Taser's are pretty ineffective in reality, especially at distance. The two prongs begin to separate so once you get out to 15-25 ft...good luck getting hits with both and you'll need both to get any reaction IF it effects them at all.

2. I really don't care what happened before where the video picks up, at the point that the suspect is running like that....using deadly force is off the table unless he has a weapon and/or pointed at you, etc. Fleeing Felon is talked about in EVERY academy. I understand he may be scared or it may be his first scuffle, but this just defies belief. I actually thought it was a re-enactment the first time I watched because I couldn't believe it.

3. I think most police would agree that this is a TERRIBLE shoot and he will be going to prison.

 

[IrishLax]

2. I really don't care what happened before where the video picks up, at the point that the suspect is running like that....using deadly force is off the table unless he has a weapon and/or pointed at you, etc. Fleeing Felon is talked about in EVERY academy. I understand he may be scared or it may be his first scuffle, but this just defies belief. I actually thought it was a re-enactment the first time I watched because I couldn't believe it.

Curiosity question... if a cop tells you to "freeze", and you run, are they allowed to shoot you? Or only sometimes? When is it allowed versus not allowed? I've always wondered what the rule was on this.

 

[Irish YJ]

Curiosity question... if a cop tells you to "freeze", and you run, are they allowed to shoot you? Or only sometimes? When is it allowed versus not allowed? I've always wondered what the rule was on this.

If you fear for self, or public welfare.

 

[dylan020]

Curiosity question... if a cop tells you to "freeze", and you run, are they allowed to shoot you? Or only sometimes? When is it allowed versus not allowed? I've always wondered what the rule was on this.

We can't just shoot you for running. You'd be "attempting to elude" and 99.9% of the time will just be in a foot pursuit. You still have to pose a threat to us or the general public.

Latest video we were shown in roll call was a civil dispute at a church. Officer rolls up, gets out and starts to talk to the suspect. Suspect then pushes off the officer and runs. While in the foot pursuit, the suspect pulls a pistol from his waistband and points it at the officer. Officer fires, suspect dies. Even the pastor tells the supervisor that arrives on scene the officer did the right thing. That's a pretty clear example of a good shoot.

FYI, I haven't been in a shoot myself, but have come very close and been around several as recent as within 60 days.

 

[Quinntastic]

I also think it should be mentioned that, even if the officer is in fear of his life because a suspect has made a swipe for his gun/taser, etc, and the officer feels he has no other choice the officer is supposed to shoot as such to not kill the person (shoot in the shoulder/leg/arm - somewhere where the person will fall/be incapacitated, but won't be necessarily lethal).

 

[dylan020]

I also think it should be mentioned that, even if the officer is in fear of his life because a suspect has made a swipe for his gun/taser, etc, and the officer feels he has no other choice the officer is supposed to shoot as such to not kill the person (shoot in the shoulder/leg/arm - somewhere where the person will fall/be incapacitated, but won't be necessarily lethal).

Negative. The targets I qualify on are center mass...not extremities.

 

[Quinntastic]

Negative. The targets I qualify on are center mass...not extremities.

I don't like the idea of a cop being able to shoot me eight times and get away with it.
































































That said, I would also never attempt to run/swipe a cop's weapon/etc.

 

[dylan020]

I don't like the idea of a cop being able to shoot me eight times and get away with it.

That said, I would also never attempt to run/swipe a cop's weapon/etc.

And this officer won't get away with this one. I would venture to say that if you caught 8 bullets, you must have done something to need that kind of action correction. I'm pretty sure you don't see officers just offing people for the hell of it. None of us want that situation to come, but for some it will.

 

[Quinntastic]

I'm the kind of goody-two-shoes that touches her brakes while going 75 down the freeway because I see a cop sitting in the median speed-clocking cars and I'm afraid they'll pull me over. A cop friend of mine told me that he always cracks up when he sees people doing that.


I've only gotten one ticket in my life and I'm pretty proud of that (only getting one, that is)

 

[dylan020]

I'm the kind of goody-two-shoes that touches her brakes while going 75 down the freeway because I see a cop sitting in the median speed-clocking cars and I'm afraid they'll pull me over. A cop friend of mine told me that he always cracks up when he sees people doing that.


I've only gotten one ticket in my life and I'm pretty proud of that (only getting one, that is)

It is pretty funny, just saying. I'm not a big speeding kinda guy...probably bc I caught a few in my younger, Mustang fueled days.

 

[arahop]

if there wasn't a video of this the scary part is that the cop can come up with some fictitious story. That's scary and I bet it happens more than people think.

 

[johnnycando]

It isn't justifiable. Force has to be warranted and comensurent the threat.

What a shameful act.

I hate it happemed like that.

 

[BGIF]

I also think it should be mentioned that, even if the officer is in fear of his life because a suspect has made a swipe for his gun/taser, etc, and the officer feels he has no other choice the officer is supposed to shoot as such to not kill the person (shoot in the shoulder/leg/arm - somewhere where the person will fall/be incapacitated, but won't be necessarily lethal).

That only happened in Roy Rogers/Hopalong Cassidy movies. Marshall Dillon dispatched 'em to Boot Hill with a single shot. Hollywood.

Watch any cop show today and they're more realistic in that regard. Center of mass and fire till the threat is gone.