Orlando attack - terrorism suspected

[IrishSteelhead]

Orlando attack - terrorism suspected

Apparently the killer reloaded 5-6 times even though it was a gun free zone. Conversely, if concealed weapons were allowed the assailant could have been stopped by just two people carrying heat.

Also, the killer called 911 to invoke ISIS and promote the Boston Bombers. Don't forget that people that kill in the name of Allah will use bombs and guns. This isn't a time to take guns away Mr President.

The thing I don't understand is how the guy got so many rounds off. At what point do the hostages, seeing people getting mowed down say "fuck it" and rush him? I understand nobody knows what they are going to do until they are in that situation, but you would think, especially since many of the people were drunk, someone would have tried to be a hero.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

The thing I don't understand is how the guy got so many rounds off. At what point do the hostages, seeing people getting mowed down say "fuck it" and rush him? I understand nobody knows what they are going to do until they are in that situation, but you would think, especially since many of the people were drunk, someone would have tried to be a hero.

You're assuming that no one tried and died. All we know is there wasn't any hero take-down.

 

[GATTACA!]

The thing I don't understand is how the guy got so many rounds off. At what point do the hostages, seeing people getting mowed down say "fuck it" and rush him? I understand nobody knows what they are going to do until they are in that situation, but you would think, especially since many of the people were drunk, someone would have tried to be a hero.

I heard there was only one entrance/exit and that the doors in the back of the establishment were locked. That could explain how he mowed through so many. Not really a great situation to try and bum rush someone, going at them head on.

 

[irishff1014]

The thing I don't understand is how the guy got so many rounds off. At what point do the hostages, seeing people getting mowed down say "fuck it" and rush him? I understand nobody knows what they are going to do until they are in that situation, but you would think, especially since many of the people were drunk, someone would have tried to be a hero.

I heard a witness say today that when he first started shooting no one heard it because the music was so loud. Not sure if that's true or not.

 

[gkIrish]

I heard a witness say today that when he first started shooting no one heard it because the music was so loud. Not sure if that's true or not.

Might be a different witness but he said they thought the gunshots were part of the song the DJ played.

 

[GoldenDome]

I'm saying these are the people responsible for Paris, Brussels, and Boston. The message here is "Islamists hate all of us," not "religious people hate gays."

#LoveIsLove is a pithy little hashtag for protesting DOMA but it's wholly inappropriate in this situation. This was an act of war against the United State, not a hate crime against the gay community.

Nah, far right ultra conservative Islamists despise gays. Don't get it twisted.

 

[phork]

Apparently the killer reloaded 5-6 times even though it was a gun free zone. Conversely, if concealed weapons were allowed the assailant could have been stopped by just two people carrying heat.

Also, the killer called 911 to invoke ISIS and promote the Boston Bombers. Don't forget that people that kill in the name of Allah will use bombs and guns. This isn't a time to take guns away Mr President.

You know what, NM. I had a big long post going. But enjoy your guns and your second ammendment along with your cold dead hands and every innocent life that is erased every day.

 

[NDgradstudent]

You know what, NM. I had a big long post going. But enjoy your guns and your second ammendment along with your cold dead hands and every innocent life that is erased every day.

There are no shootings like this in Vermont, despite a high gun ownership rate. Vermont has the lowest gun murder rate in the country. Why is that?

 

[dshans]

I attended a vigil tonight in a park near where I now live in Jacksonville.

Here is my highly restrained take:

An early evening crowd

Greetings were greeted
In somber timber
Speeches were spoke
Talks were talked
Hugs were hugged
Hopes were hoped

Tears were held
Tears were flowing
Tears were captured
For future hopes

Clouds lingered lightly
In respect
Birds cried above
In anguish
The moon hovered
Half mast
Voices gave flight
To dreams

Though the pulse is gone
In far too many
The pulse is is strong
In those who remain

The river rippled and flowed
The cool breeze was there –
An attempt to soothe

Roll on
Move On
Get on

 

[tussin]

There are no shootings like this in Vermont, despite a high gun ownership rate. Vermont has the lowest gun murder rate in the country. Why is that?

Is this data reflective of only mass shootings? If it's gun murder rates in general then it is not surprising that a state like Vermont has lower rates than states such as Michigan, Florida, or California.

 

[Buster Bluth]

There are no shootings like this in Vermont, despite a high gun ownership rate. Vermont has the lowest gun murder rate in the country. Why is that?

Because everyone is white!

Did I win the prize?

 

[NDgradstudent]

Is this data reflective of only mass shootings? If it's gun murder rates in general then it is not surprising that a state like Vermont has lower rates than states such as Michigan, Florida, or California.

All homicides count in the murder rate, whether they are part of a mass shooting or not. Why should it be surprising? Why shouldn't California have a lower murder rate (gun or otherwise) than Vermont? Obviously the absolute number would be higher; the rate is per capita.

 

[tussin]

I am of the opinion that gun laws will have no effect (positive or negative) on mass shootings.

How many times has a mass shooting situation been stopped by a civilian? I also don't buy that the possibility of civilian resistance deters mass shooters to begin with. Almost every mass shooting situation ends with a dead perpetrator (either suicide or taken down by police), so it's not like these individuals are concerned with the preservation of their own life.

 

[tussin]

Is this data reflective of only mass shootings? If it's gun murder rates in general then it is not surprising that a state like Vermont has lower rates than states such as Michigan, Florida, or California.

The point is that murder rates are reflective of demographics and economics -- not gun laws.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Apparently the killer reloaded 5-6 times even though it was a gun free zone. Conversely, if concealed weapons were allowed the assailant could have been stopped by just two people carrying heat.

Also, the killer called 911 to invoke ISIS and promote the Boston Bombers. Don't forget that people that kill in the name of Allah will use bombs and guns. This isn't a time to take guns away Mr President.

Wait so there are radical Muslims out to get us and we don't want to take any steps to make people register the sort of weapons that could be used to mow down whole crowds of people in one sitting?

No one wants to "take away guns." Stop continuing that absurdity. People do want to have powerful weapons in the hands of people who aren't going to commit mass murder.

Just think, there's a big ol' war going on right now with radicalized Muslims and no level of government has any sort of authority to slow down their move to load up with enough rifles and ammunition to end the lives of everyone hanging out in your local mall food court... how much sense does that make?

Liberals generally want you to buy guns. They want to promote the expensive hobby known as hunting, because they love the sales tax and keeping people employed. But there's a reason the overwhelming majority wants tighter gun regulations: it makes sense to make people jump a bit of a hurdle before they can walk around with semiautomatic death disher-outers.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Almost every mass shooting situation ends with a dead perpetrator (either suicide or taken down by police), so it's not like these individuals are concerned with the preservation of their own life.

That's why we have to kill their families.

 

[NDgradstudent]

The point is that murder rates are reflective of demographics and economics -- not gun laws.

Right- I agree with this. That's why it is unfair to take away everyone's guns, when evidently some people (such as Vermonters) can use guns responsibly. This is the point Sanders tried to make when Clinton attacked him on gun control.

 

[tussin]

Right- I agree with this. That's why it is unfair to take away everyone's guns, when evidently some people (such as Vermonters) can use guns responsibly. This is the point Sanders tried to make when Clinton attacked him on gun control.

The problem with the whole gun debate is that it is reported as one side "taking away everyone's guns," which is wholly inaccurate and causes paranoia among gun owners.

While I agree that gun laws won't impact the occurrence of mass shootings, it is absolutely ridiculous that politicians can't pass common sense gun laws. Civilians don't need AR-15s, guns shouldn't be sold at shady gun shows, people that are on the terrorist watch list shouldn't be able to buy a gun -- this is grade school stuff.

 

[drayer54]

Right- I agree with this. That's why it is unfair to take away everyone's guns, when evidently some people (such as Vermonters) can use guns responsibly. This is the point Sanders tried to make when Clinton attacked him on gun control.

No law prevents people who proclaim loyalty to an organization that throws gays off rooftops. He had an evil ideology and it is that ideology that must be attacked. He could have just as easily used a banned bomb.

Man with weapons was headed to L.A. gay pride parade - LA Times

Here's my frustration with Obama..... No gun up and did this. An evil Islamic terrorist did. When shit went down in Europe, it was time to hunt. When shit goes down here, we go after the guns. Why can't we go digging up every other a-hole in the area on the watch list and try to prevent more nonsense.

Our ability to patrol these men must dramatically improve. That is why opening the floodgates on refugees is just plain dangerous. These people become radicalized and do crazy crap. I'm sure he was communicating with someone in Afghanistan, Yemen, SA, or Pakistan. i just want a president who will come out and say this won't happen again and then do some shit. That's all.

 

[Wild Bill]

Nah, far right ultra conservative Islamists despise gays. Don't get it twisted.

Polls suggest it's much more than just far right ultra conservative Muslims.

Ban homosexuality, 52% of British Muslims say in poll - CNN.com

 

[drayer54]

Polls suggest it's much more than just far right ultra conservative Muslims.

Ban homosexuality, 52% of British Muslims say in poll - CNN.com

We should open the gates to bring more people in who suck at assimilating and have violent tendencies.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

The problem with the whole gun debate is that it is reported as one side "taking away everyone's guns," which is wholly inaccurate and causes paranoia among gun owners.

While I agree that gun laws won't impact the occurrence of mass shootings, it is absolutely ridiculous that politicians can't pass common sense gun laws. Civilians don't need AR-15s, guns shouldn't be sold at shady gun shows, people that are on the terrorist watch list shouldn't be able to buy a gun -- this is grade school stuff.

And why don't I need my 5.56 semi automatic rifle? Because it happens to be based on a military design? Any of my hunting load outs except for small game are more powerful than the AR.

The gun show loophole is poorly misunderstood. Yes in the federal code there is a loophole for private sales to be completed as long as I don't suspect you plan to use the gun for illegal activities.
Something like 20 states have gone further with that.
I know in PA I can sell you one of my long guns without a background check, but if I want to sell you a handgun we have to complete it at a FFL dealer before the transaction can proceed.
The one exception to that is a direct family member can purchase a handgun for you as a gift, with the understanding that if you are a prohibited person they can and will be charged for making a straw purchase.

As far as the watch list goes I understood that if you were on it the FBI would automatically return a no go on the background check.

You want common sense what's common for you and me may vary widely. I have no problem with taking 30 minutes to hit the gun shop while they run a background check on you, but I don't have a problem with civilian ownershop of a semi auto rifle. Especially since I hunt with rifles that our military uses as sniper rifles currently.
I don't even think a waiting period would stop mass shootings. Someone who's that far gone won't care about waiting 7 days.
Though it would probably have an impact on emotional shootings.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Which would be totally justified if the large majority of peaceful Christians turned a blind eye to the KKK's actions, and instead of standing up and speaking out against a small violent portion of their religion instead cowered away and lashed out at anyone criticizing the KKK.

Of course there are some peaceful Muslims that speak out against assholes like this shooter, but it's hard to stomach when you see people including lots of the media purposefully hiding the fact that shooter was a member of radical Islam.

Just FYI it's in living memory that the KKK (a terrorist organization by just about any measure) was perhaps the most powerful political force in the country and had millions of members, including the most influential members of American society.

 

[phork]

I am of the opinion that gun laws will have no effect (positive or negative) on mass shootings.

Restricted access to guns that can shoot a lot of bullets very quickly might disagree with your statement.

Wait so there are radical Muslims out to get us and we don't want to take any steps to make people register the sort of weapons that could be used to mow down whole crowds of people in one sitting?

No one wants to "take away guns." Stop continuing that absurdity. People do want to have powerful weapons in the hands of people who aren't going to commit mass murder.

Just think, there's a big ol' war going on right now with radicalized Muslims and no level of government has any sort of authority to slow down their move to load up with enough rifles and ammunition to end the lives of everyone hanging out in your local mall food court... how much sense does that make?

Liberals generally want you to buy guns. They want to promote the expensive hobby known as hunting, because they love the sales tax and keeping people employed. But there's a reason the overwhelming majority wants tighter gun regulations: it makes sense to make people jump a bit of a hurdle before they can walk around with semiautomatic death disher-outers.

I am not sure why people are upset at having certain guns banned, you know, for capacity reasons and/or having legit back ground checks and no loopholes?

While I agree that gun laws won't impact the occurrence of mass shootings, it is absolutely ridiculous that politicians can't pass common sense gun laws. Civilians don't need AR-15s, guns shouldn't be sold at shady gun shows, people that are on the terrorist watch list shouldn't be able to buy a gun -- this is grade school stuff.

Bingo

No law prevents people who proclaim loyalty to an organization that throws gays off rooftops. He had an evil ideology and it is that ideology that must be attacked. He could have just as easily used a banned bomb.

Man with weapons was headed to L.A. gay pride parade - LA Times

Here's my frustration with Obama..... No gun up and did this. An evil Islamic terrorist did. When shit went down in Europe, it was time to hunt. When shit goes down here, we go after the guns. Why can't we go digging up every other a-hole in the area on the watch list and try to prevent more nonsense.

Our ability to patrol these men must dramatically improve. That is why opening the floodgates on refugees is just plain dangerous. These people become radicalized and do crazy crap. I'm sure he was communicating with someone in Afghanistan, Yemen, SA, or Pakistan. i just want a president who will come out and say this won't happen again and then do some shit. That's all.

You are right. No gun up and did this. It was the purchaser (legally) who had access to a gun like this. Who purchased it within the last week or so. Why do people need access to guns like this? WITH extended clips?

No president will ever say that. You can't stamp out terrorism. Thats the point. You never know when and where its going to happen.

And why don't I need my 5.56 semi automatic rifle? Because it happens to be based on a military design? Any of my hunting load outs except for small game are more powerful than the AR.

The gun show loophole is poorly misunderstood. Yes in the federal code there is a loophole for private sales to be completed as long as I don't suspect you plan to use the gun for illegal activities.
Something like 20 states have gone further with that.
I know in PA I can sell you one of my long guns without a background check, but if I want to sell you a handgun we have to complete it at a FFL dealer before the transaction can proceed.
The one exception to that is a direct family member can purchase a handgun for you as a gift, with the understanding that if you are a prohibited person they can and will be charged for making a straw purchase.

As far as the watch list goes I understood that if you were on it the FBI would automatically return a no go on the background check.

You want common sense what's common for you and me may vary widely. I have no problem with taking 30 minutes to hit the gun shop while they run a background check on you, but I don't have a problem with civilian ownershop of a semi auto rifle. Especially since I hunt with rifles that our military uses as sniper rifles currently.
I don't even think a waiting period would stop mass shootings. Someone who's that far gone won't care about waiting 7 days.
Though it would probably have an impact on emotional shootings.

I have a problem with anyone owning a gun that can mow down a club full of people. One shooter, 50+ dead. No one needs a gun like that. Common sense is that I don't need a gun like that to hunt. Sniper rifles? Don't really care. You'll get 2 or 3 shots off before someone is on you. When you are popping off 800 rounds a minute (theoretical max of an AR15, yes I am aware thats practically impossible) its easy to mow the lawn.

I just don't see having to wait it out on an extensive back ground check and more as opposed to a 30 minute check.

We do just fine up in Canada. Hunters, hunt and rarely does that shit happen here.

How can you look at graphs like this: Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world

And think everything is fine?

I think we can all agree, I hope, that something needs to be done.

 

[phgreek]

RIP to those who lost their lives. Prayers for all the wounded and everyone touched by this insanity.

This did not occur because others did or did not have a gun. This happened because evil human beings exist...and we still can't take people at their word when they mean us harm.

 

[ThePiombino]

Remember when this thread was about the Orlando tragedy and not your annoying political biases? Take it to another thread.

 

[ulukinatme]

Prayers for those that were affected by this tragedy. That's all I'll say for tonight.

 

[phgreek]

Remember when this thread was about the Orlando tragedy and not your annoying political biases? Take it to another thread.

Since you quoted no one, and gave no verbal hint like "you guys" or "everyone" to point at a broader audience, it appears this is in response to the closest post that precedes your post...that'd be mine. I'm fine with folks pointing out where they disagree or think what I'm saying isn't appropriate...however my post seems pretty tame comparatively speaking...so before I make assumptions about your intent here, would you clarify your intended audience?

 

[Henges24]

Since you quoted no one, and gave no verbal hint like "you guys" or "everyone" to point at a broader audience, it appears this is in response to the closest post that precedes your post...that'd be mine. I'm fine with folks pointing out where they disagree or think what I'm saying isn't appropriate...however my post seems pretty tame comparatively speaking...so before I make assumptions about your intent here, would you clarify your intended audience?

Half of this thread has been about gun regulations and not the actual horrible event that occurred last night. I don't believe his comment was intended for you, unless you have been in the regulations discussion.

 

[ThePiombino]

Since you quoted no one, and gave no verbal hint like "you guys" or "everyone" to point at a broader audience, it appears this is in response to the closest post that precedes your post...that'd be mine. I'm fine with folks pointing out where they disagree or think what I'm saying isn't appropriate...however my post seems pretty tame comparatively speaking...so before I make assumptions about your intent here, would you clarify your intended audience?

Relax, it's meant for every single person who decided to bring politics into this thread instead of honoring the dead.