Nov 1 | Navy

BleedBlueGold

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You are correct, that is the way it happened. This is apparently their second flip flop after the game.

This makes three of us that are remembering the events as such.

I tried finding the tweet from the first presser, but it must've been a retweet or something because I can't find it. During BK's post-FSU presser he said he had a talk scheduled w/ the ACC head to discuss the end of the game, because what he was told after the game gave him "less clarity."

I'm almost positive the ref said Fuller during the game but afterwards BK was told it was Procise (hence the "less clarity comment). Then a formal announcement was made that it was in fact Fuller (all the media ran with this in agreement). Today, a tweet comes out during the Navy presser that the call was against Procise.

Am I wrong on this? I'm 99% sure this is what went down.
 

NDohio

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See... i'm really screwed up now. I thought the broadcast called it on Procise (I would swear on this), then on Saturday BK said that they told him it was actually Fuller. That's also what I seem to recall pundits pointing to when they would talk about it. Then today, BK said that it was, in fact, on Procise.

Am I missing something or did none of that happen?

I'm with you. I think the ref announced Fuller but Herbie said Procise. Then BK got the call that it was Fuller. Now they're saying Procise. That's my recollection anyways.

You are correct, that is the way it happened. This is apparently their second flip flop after the game.

This makes three of us that are remembering the events as such.

I tried finding the tweet from the first presser, but it must've been a retweet or something because I can't find it. During BK's post-FSU presser he said he had a talk scheduled w/ the ACC head to discuss the end of the game, because what he was told after the game gave him "less clarity."

I'm almost positive the ref said Fuller during the game but afterwards BK was told it was Procise (hence the "less clarity comment). Then a formal announcement was made that it was in fact Fuller (all the media ran with this in agreement). Today, a tweet comes out during the Navy presser that the call was against Procise.

Am I wrong on this? I'm 99% sure this is what went down.


Here is the discussion about the post game shenanigans of the ACC.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/leprechaun-lounge/208604-video-pass-interference-8.html
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I don't care (that much) about points this weekend, etc.

I am looking for three numbers, least to greatest in importance :

  • ND, turnovers; (Better be zero.)
  • Navy, yards per carry; (Can we drop them from 6.2 to less than two, which is what we have done multiple times against good offensive lines?)
  • ND, defensive injuries; (This is my last test for my pronouncement on how superior our defense is operating this year.)
 

BleedBlueGold

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Here is the discussion about the post game shenanigans of the ACC.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/leprechaun-lounge/208604-video-pass-interference-8.html

Thanks. And I'm not trying to derail this thread. But since it was brought up again during the Navy presser and linked to this thread, I kept the convo here.

Btw, I found this order of events as posted by LuckyLucci in that thread on 10/21/14:

Well not to get into too much but the chain of events are as followed. The penalty on the field was called on Fuller. Herbstreit announces it on the broadcast as being on Procise. ACC reaffirms to Kelly on Sunday that the call was on Fuller. The media can't stop talking about how Procise was "blocking" into the endzone, which isn't illegal within 3 yards, and yesterday afternoon it breaks that the ACC has yet again changed the ruling to penalize Procise.

So...two announcements by the ACC since the game...both announcements have been different players. (However, the tweet I saw today was not a new flip-flop).

On to Navy!
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Aside from the cut block comment, I found the waiting on Hardy comment most interesting. An appeal didn't come to mind, I should think they'd be through that considering the other participants. I was thinking ND's awaiting NCAA's nihil obstat to preclude any ineligible player issue.

I thought so too. But didn't BK talk with more than one of the players that things had to be done, (implied off the field in the classroom), with other players?

And nobody anywhere has mentioned the interesting interchange about DD. I thought that said volumes. Didn't BK say that whether DD returned next year also depended on the implications of the penalty affecting his grade point average, and that there was a continued question of his eligibility due to grades?
 

NDohio

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Thanks. And I'm not trying to derail this thread. But since it was brought up again during the Navy presser and linked to this thread, I kept the convo here.

Btw, I found this order of events as posted by LuckyLucci in that thread on 10/21/14:

Didn't mean for that to come off as I was trying to send the conversation to that thread. I was more showing that particular page for reference of the timeline of the ACC's mishandling of the entire situation.
 

BGIF

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I thought so too. But didn't BK talk with more than one of the players that things had to be done, (implied off the field in the classroom), with other players?

And nobody anywhere has mentioned the interesting interchange about DD. I thought that said volumes. Didn't BK say that whether DD returned next year also depended on the implications of the penalty affecting his grade point average, and that there was a continued question of his eligibility due to grades?

I don't recall specific quotes. But isn't Hardy the only one of the five practicing with the team? The only one with a chance of playing this year?

I thought the comments about the others had to do with '15 not the remainder of this season.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I don't recall specific quotes. But isn't Hardy the only one of the five practicing with the team? The only one with a chance of playing this year?

I thought the comments about the others had to do with '15 not the remainder of this season.

Yes. In both cases. But I tried to listen closely and as generalities here is what I heard.

  • Williams, Russel, could definitely come back in '15.
  • Moore was definitely done.
  • DD may or may not be able to come back. (Regardless of his or his father's posts.)
  • Hardy could come back this year. (Which made me think that he could come back this year and not next year but I have nothing other than a strong feeling to support that. In other words, either by choosing to come back this year, or as a result of his hearing, he would not be coming back next year, and would play his fifth year somewhere else. I am hoping his involvement was much less than some others, and his punishment therefore less, which would allow him to play this year and next!)
  • BK had talks with both Williams and Russell about what they have to do to come back.
  • BK has had a talk with Hardy about what he had to do, specifically on the bye week to come back to practice.
  • More has to be done with Hardy to be game eligible. (I don't know if that is grade posting and verification by the Provost or committee, or if it is some kind of NCAA clearance or both.)
  • Even if DD wants to come back, the results of the hearing may make it impossible to achieve the GPA he needs for eligibility. But BK and he have had the talk. (Sounds like it is a daunting task.)

I don't know how many of the four with potential to return have issues with GPA eligibility because of the punishment given as a result of their hearings.
 
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irishff1014

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I respect the Navy for there military side. On the football field they are players. With that said i hope we win buy 30 to make a statement ND football is here to stay. If you are in the path buckle your seat belt because it will be a rough road. Kelly needs this team to play focused with a lead foot on the pedal. And try to keep the emotion out of this one that's when you get upset.
 

Rudy89

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When they gonna announce kickoff for this game I still don't see it posted. I hope we can have a nice relaxing win and avoid not only the upset but me drinking too much due to nerves.
 

arrowryan

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When they gonna announce kickoff for this game I still don't see it posted. I hope we can have a nice relaxing win and avoid not only the upset but me drinking too much due to nerves.

8:00 pm EST on CBS
 

Whiskeyjack

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quote-every-normal-man-must-be-tempted-at-times-to-spit-on-his-hands-hoist-the-black-flag-and-begin-h-l-mencken-125674.jpg


Sorry, Middies. Prepare to be boarded.
 

Old Man Mike

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If we beat the Navy Football Team by 70-0 that would be just fine. Once they're in their proper uniforms aboard their aircraft carriers, THEN I'll salute.

Respect for their bravery in the field; no respect for their cutblocking on the field.
 

Whiskeyjack

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OFD's burger32 just published a good film breakdown of how to defend Navy's triple option. Here's the conclusion:

So what should we expect this Saturday versus Navy? During the offseason, I looked at a game between Georgia and Georgia Southern when Brian VanGorder was the UGA defensive coordinator. In that game, BVG used a 3-4 defense with the two outside linebackers playing at the line of scrimmage, giving the defense more of a 5-2 look. However, I would be really surprised to see VanGorder use something other than the 4-3 Notre Dame has been using all season.

As mentioned above, it will be important to get good play out of the middle linebacker position. One of Notre Dame's problems last season was the play of Carlo Calabrese. He was constantly out of position and it allowed Navy's option plays to gain a numbers advantage on the edge.

Joe Schmidt isn't Manti Te'o, but he's a good player and I think he'll do fine. It might be tempting to think we should just throw Jaylon Smith in the middle but I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think it's wise to take a good player like Schmidt off the field and then put Smith in a position he's never played.

Speaking of Jaylon, he didn't have a great game against Navy last year. He was clearly thinking too much and tried too hard to cover the quarterback and pitch on option plays. Rarely does that work at the linebacker position. I'd like to see him play more decisive this time around. If his job is to cover the quarterback, he needs to attack the QB and force the pitch early to string the play out to the sideline.

At the other linebacker position, I think we'll see someone like Mathias Farley play there. It worked for Bob Diaco when he played Jamoris Slaughter, Robert Blanton, and Farley at linebacker against option teams. Navy's brand of offense is more of a finesse offense so some extra speed is always helpful.

As for Navy, they're just not as good as they were last year. The Midshipmen have had trouble with turnovers and Keenan Reynolds missed two games with an injury. He seems to be healthy, though; he carried the ball 39 times last weekend against San Jose State. Navy has a pair of really good B-backs in Chris Swain and Noah Copeland. They'll make Notre Dame's life miserable if the defense doesn't play disciplined or tackle well. Stopping them might be more important than stopping Reynolds.

The Navy defense is the same old Navy defense - they'll play bend-but-don't-break defense and try to make opposing offenses earn their way down the field.

If I was Brian Kelly, I would pick up the tempo a little bit. Navy wants to slow the game down but a fast game with lots of possessions favors Notre Dame. I think we'll see Kelly use Everett Golson a lot early in the game to score quickly. If the defense can get a few stops or a turnover or two and the offense can build a lead, then I think Kelly will use Tarean Folston to put the game away.

On defense, look for Joe Schmidt making tackles from the middle linebacker position and production from the defensive line. Also look for the outside linebackers and safeties playing decisively and tracking down the quarterback and A-backs. Just keeping Navy out of the endzone should be priority number one. As long as the offense is clicking, a field goal is as good as a punt

And sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Score early and score often and this should be a comfortable win.
 
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kmoose

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If we beat the Navy Football Team by 70-0 that would be just fine. Once they're in their proper uniforms aboard their aircraft carriers, THEN I'll salute.

Respect for their bravery in the field; no respect for their cutblocking on the field.

There's nothing illegal, or cheap, about cut blocking. It is chop blocking that is the problem.
 

aubeirish

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Zach Martin did a mean chop block last monday against the Redskins. A thing of beauty if you ask me.
 

Rudy89

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Prime time....great they'll be even more fired up to give us another fucking close game.
 
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Irish2155

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At least it's not like last year when I had to upgrade my Uverse package just to see the game...reminds me, still need to cancel that.
 

CarrollVermin

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OFD's burger32 just published a good film breakdown of how to defend Navy's triple option. Here's the conclusion:

Yeah, the analysis is nice, but the key is going to be stopping the fullback. Swain killed us last season, and they are averaging over 8 yards a play this year at that position. If they are able to run wild again, we could be looking at a very, very long night.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Yeah, the analysis is nice, but the key is going to be stopping the fullback. Swain killed us last season, and they are averaging over 8 yards a play this year at that position. If they are able to run wild again, we could be looking at a very, very long night.

Thanks largely to Calabrese. I have much more confidence in Schmidt.

Coach Thiel just published an article about stopping the Triple Option with the Double Eagle formation:

Defending the Triple Option with a Double Eagle (5-3-3 or 5-2-4)

Without any context as to how BVG may choose to defend the Navy triple option with his personnel, it is a fun exercise to postulate some options that he may (or may not) employ on Saturday. As a matter of personal preference, my philosophical belief is that a defense must take a certain option away from the offense. There is no better way to take the midline option/FB dive play away than the Double Eagle Defense. Also known as the “Bear” or “TNT” defense, the Double Eagle employs not one, but two DTs (3-Techniques) playing either directly over the Guards, or shaded to the B-Gaps with a NG (0-Technique) playing in between them, directly over the Center. Here is the 5-3 model:

53defense.png


This defense is so effective at taking away the A/B-Gap plays that the current Godfather of the triple option, Paul Johnson, instructs his QBs to automatically check out of midline plays and attack the perimeter or off-tackle when the defense shows this alignment. This approach would be particularly effective for ND with our current personnel. In such a framework, I would propose that the starting DTs (3Ts) would be Day/Rochell in this particular defense backed up by a pool which includes Utupo/Matuska/Hounshell. At 0T we’d still see Jones as the likely starter backed up by Cage/Matuska. The pile of humanity that this approach would create in the A/B-Gaps would virtually guarantee that Navy has no success with the FB dive.

In this defense, the ND DEs would play 7T outside of the Navy OTs and have the initial “force” responsibility which should include knocking the QB’s teeth in and “force” the pitch. ND has numerous options at DE in this defense including Okwara/Trumbetti/Blankenship/Hill/Councell.

Another advantage of playing the 5-3 alignment is that the MLB in this defense is literally covered Guard-Center-Guard making it virtually impossible to get an interior OL to the second level to block him. This incredible freedom of movement allows the MLB to act not only as a safety valve on the midline plays, but also makes him the secondary “cleanup” on the QB keep and the pitch-man if the DE or OLB misses his assignment. While Joe Schmidt is the base MLB, the responsibilities of the MLB in the Double Eagle make Jaylon Smith custom-made to play this unique position. The other two OLBs have responsibility for the pitch-man, backed up by the CBs and the one and only Safety on the field. In this defense, the SAM LBs (Tranquill *I hope*/Onwaulu/Turner would align to the field to take away the pitch-man and the MIKE (Schmidt/Morgan) would align to the boundary for a pitch-man in that direction.

The Double Eagle is uniquely suited for getting a triple option offense “off-schedule” by creating negative, and zero yardage plays. This defensive alignment also forces the triple option offense to call plays that they are not comfortable with or necessarily adept at running such as play-action or drop-back passes. With only three DBs (CB/FS/CB) the 5-3 Double Eagle cannot be considered strong against the pass. However, the level of concern with this weakness depends on how much you really believe that Navy can keep pace with ND’s offense if Reynolds has to throw 20+ passes during the game.

There is also a 5-2 model for the Double Eagle as well. With ND’s interior DL, I still find it extremely unlikely that Navy would have any success with the midline option/FB dive even without the MLB. In a 5-2 framework, the Safeties become critical in their role as “alley” players against the pitch-man as the free-roaming MLB no longer exists. My hope would be that those Safeties don’t align 10-12 yards off the LOS like a certain recently-departed DC seemed to prefer! Here is an example of the 5-2 alignment:

Unknown.jpeg


In either the 5-3 or 5-2 Double Eagle defense there also remains a level of susceptibility to anything off-tackle. Should Navy have success with this approach, there are a variety of slants, pre-snap shifts, and even blitzes which can neutralize that approach as well. The bottom line is that there are a variety of defenses which can be successful against the triple option and the Double Eagle is one of them. Come Saturday, it may not even matter what approach BVG chooses if the ND offense gets rolling and gets up early by 14+ points.

If you're concerned about stopping the FB, CV, this is the way to do it. I'd prefer we try something aggressive like this, because: (1) blowing Navy out will help in a possible head-to-head comparison with OSU (common opponent); and (2) dominating lesser opponents should help win over the Selection Committee.
 

irishfan

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IMO winning by less than 20 is unacceptable. BK wont talk about style points, but we need them.
 

kmoose

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Thanks largely to Calabrese. I have much more confidence in Schmidt.

Coach Thiel just published an article about stopping the Triple Option with the Double Eagle formation:



If you're concerned about stopping the FB, CV, this is the way to do it. I'd prefer we try something aggressive like this, because: (1) blowing Navy out will help in a possible head-to-head comparison with OSU (common opponent); and (2) dominating lesser opponents should help win over the Selection Committee.

Great article. Thanks for sharing.
 
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