Liberalism & Conservatism

Whiskeyjack

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Patrick Deneen, one of my favorite ND professors, is teaching a class this semester called "Liberalism and Conservatism". He's opted to post all the course materials and facilitate discussion online in lieu of his weekly column at TAC:

During this semester on the campus of the University of Notre Dame, I am excited to be offering a class to a group of bright undergraduates entitled “Liberalism and Conservatism.” As I explained to them last week during our first class meeting , most of them, like most of their fellow Americans, describe themselves by one of these two labels without knowing much about the intellectual traditions of either, much less the different and contesting lines of thought within each of those traditions. I’m offering the course out of “conservative” grounds: we would all be better served as citizens and thinking individuals if we knew something of the history of these—and even our own—respective beliefs. I’m offering the course on “liberal” grounds: only by “thinking critically” about traditions can we better understand them, and potentially liberate ourselves from unthinking adherence to flawed traditions.

In lieu of a weekly column that I have been writing (on and off) for TAC for the past year, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to invite readers to “take” the course along with my students at Notre Dame. I will post the syllabus here today, and beginning next week I’ll post compressed summaries of my three hours of weekly lectures on the material. I’ll also occasionally post some of the more interesting responses of my students (anonymously, of course), to give you a sense of how the “millennial” generation at the nation’s leading Catholic university thinks about and responds to these topics.

Over the course of the semester, we will be reading about and discussing six varieties of political belief: three liberal, and three conservative. They are:

LIBERAL

1. Classical Liberalism

2. Progressive Liberalism

3. Libertarianism

CONSERVATIVE

4. Natural Rights Conservatism

5. Traditional Conservatism

6. Radical Catholicism

We will devote two weeks to each segment: in general, during the first week we will read from “sources” of each political belief, and the second week we will read more contemporary authors. We will be at least as interested in the relationships between each of these political beliefs as with their respective contents. None of these political beliefs exist in a vacuum, but influence each other—historically and philosophically—in fascinating ways.

As a teaser, let me point out some of the more interesting relationships not only between liberals and conservatives, but internal to each tradition as well. Classical liberalism—with sources especially in the thought of John Locke—provoked a strong initial reaction not from “conservatives” necessarily, but instead generated a reaction by figures that gave inspiration to “progressive liberalism.” Thus, among Locke’s most vocal critics were “historicist” progressive thinkers like Rousseau and Marx. Similarly, in the United States, among the most vociferous critics of Lockean philosophy of the Founders were the American progressives, John Dewey and Herbert Croly. Thus, in modern times, one of the most visceral debates has been contestation within the tradition of liberalism itself. In a development rich with irony, the rise of progressive liberalism led to a reaction by a distinctively liberal form of conservatism: “Natural Rights Conservatism.” With the ascent of progressive liberalism in the mid- and latter-part of the 20th-century, the defense of the “classical liberal” tradition came be articulated most robustly by “natural rights conservatives” (influenced by the German emigre, Leo Strauss). Thus, what was originally “liberal” became “conservative.”

Looking at each row of my “schematic,” we can see interesting dynamics between the liberal and conservative positions. If the “classical liberal” (#1) and “natural rights conservatives” (#4) are deeply similar and substantially sympathetic to one another, we see a more complicated dynamic between “progressive liberals” (#2) and “traditional conservatives” (#5) They are, on the one hand, deep and eternal antagonists, with the progressives rejecting out of hand the claims of “custom” and “tradition,” while the traditionalists harbor deep suspicion toward a progressive belief in a future that is always better and brighter. Yet, they are at the same time deeply similar in their “historicism”: both hold the basic belief that humans are historically constituted creatures whose ontological horizons are shaped by the passage of time. Of course, progressives believe that the key to human happiness lies in the future, while traditionalists point to the wisdom imparted from the past. But their basic “historicism” proves to be deeply objectionable to the a-historicist principled liberalism of both the classical liberals and the natural rights conservatives. Thus (for example), not only do Natural Rights Conservatives disagree with Progressive Liberals (a la Glenn Beck, or his academic sources, Straussian critics of progressivism such as the recently-departed Harry Jaffa and his cadre of students associated with the Claremont school, such as Charles Kesler), but they harbor deep suspicions toward Traditional Conservatives. This helps to make sense of why Leo Strauss devoted a chapter on the “Crisis of Modern Natural Rights” of his landmark book Natural Right and History criticizing not only Jean-Jacques Rousseau, but Edmund Burke as well. This also helps to explain why the Straussians and Kirkeans don’t get along all too well, even while they both strenuously believe that Progressive Liberalism is a mutual nemesis.

Or, consider the relationship between Libertarianism (#3) and “Radical Catholicism” (#6) as I have dubbed it. They are profound, deep, and eternal antagonists. However, interestingly, they straddle both liberalism and conservatism (albeit in opposite ways). Libertarianism has affinities with “Natural Rights Conservatism” (itself as a species of liberalism), while Radical Catholicism shares some overlapping consensus with concerns of Progressivism (thus, Alasdair MacIntyre’s continued interest in Marxism, particularly the Marxist critique of liberalism). Both tend to be deeply discontent with the current configuration of contemporary political parties, and would prefer a re-alignment that would either draw together or expel libertarian elements of the respective Parties. Because they have been distinct minorities in American politics, however, they have had to be content with alliances with various other positions—holding their noses the entire time. That could be changing, however, as libertarians seem to be waxing in appeal while “Radical Catholics” contemplate a “Benedict Option.”

Much more can, and will, be said about these relationships. Suffice to say, they are at least as interesting as the individual beliefs themselves, and we will give those relationships due attention as we proceed through the “semester.”

All readers are invited to be as involved as they wish in this “course”—from reading the “assignments” and commenting on my “lectures,” to simply reading my weekly lecture summaries and mulling over them in the privacy of your own mind. I will post the summary of the week’s readings each Wednesday, beginning next week.

My syllabus in full is posted below. For next week’s assignment, please read the selection from John Locke, and if you are able to procure a copy, the selected pages of Yuval Levin’s masterful book, The Great Debate. We’ll “discuss” these next week.

Just don’t ask me what will be on the test…

A better understanding of political philosophy would probably benefit everyone on this board, and it would certainly improve the level of discourse on such subjects around here. Anyone interested in following the course with me?
 

BobbyMac

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Patrick Deneen, one of my favorite ND professors, is teaching a class this semester called "Liberalism and Conservatism". He's opted to post all the course materials and facilitate discussion online in lieu of his weekly column at TAC:



A better understanding of political philosophy would probably benefit everyone on this board, and it would certainly improve the lev

Over the course of the semester, we will be reading about and discussing six varieties of political belief: three liberal, and three conservative. They are:

LIBERAL

1. Classical Liberalism

2. Progressive Liberalism

3. Libertarianism

CONSERVATIVE

4. Natural Rights Conservatism

5. Traditional Conservatism

6. Radical Catholicism


I doubt you could get that exact syllabus again if you asked a million people to breakdown Liberal vs Conservative into six topics.

Would love to take this class. I would love to see how he handles Classic Liberalism vs Libertarianism since he put Libertarianism into the Liberal category where traditionally it belongs (but has lost that placement in today's landscape) and that I must assume he is an anti- Radical Catholic(?) So many questions I have!

Good stuff. You got my blood pumping Whiskey.

.


I just saw your last line... I jumped the gun when I saw the breakdown. This sounds awesome! I'm in as long as my next project doesn't force me out of retirement.

...and you aren't kidding about the political aid to this board.... sheesh.

Just curious, what's Prof Deneen's leanings?

I'll now read the entire post to fill myself in. Please excuse the excited lil schoolgirl in me. You'd think it was 1964 and I just saw a picture of The Beatles.

.
 
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dshans

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Well, WhishkeyInTheJar, I'm game.

Is there a link?
 

Whiskeyjack

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Well, WhishkeyInTheJar, I'm game.

Is there a link?

Of course. The syllabus can be found here, in the initial post. Deneen has provided links to most of the sources, but some are not available online. Those can either be skipped, purchased from Amazon, or downloaded illicitly from some shady corner of the internet.
 

wizards8507

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Patrick Deneen, one of my favorite ND professors, is teaching a class this semester called "Liberalism and Conservatism". He's opted to post all the course materials and facilitate discussion online in lieu of his weekly column at TAC:
Liberalism and Conservatism: Or, Why Wiz and Whiskey Disagree On Shit

Reminds me of a theology class I took when I was an undergrad called "God and Mammon". Being a theology class, we focused more on John Chrysostom and Thomas Aquinas than John Locke and Karl Marx, but I'm sure there will be a lot of overlap in the general themes. As it happens, I took most of my philosophy courses at Saint Mary's with an John Dewey pragmatist... you can imagine how those conversations went.

A better understanding of political philosophy would probably benefit everyone on this board, and it would certainly improve the level of discourse on such subjects around here. Anyone interested in following the course with me?
I'm in.
 

woolybug25

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Patrick Deneen, one of my favorite ND professors, is teaching a class this semester called "Liberalism and Conservatism". He's opted to post all the course materials and facilitate discussion online in lieu of his weekly column at TAC:



A better understanding of political philosophy would probably benefit everyone on this board, and it would certainly improve the level of discourse on such subjects around here. Anyone interested in following the course with me?

I dig... I dig...

You should start a thread, Whiskey.
 
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Patrick Deneen, one of my favorite ND professors, is teaching a class this semester called "Liberalism and Conservatism". He's opted to post all the course materials and facilitate discussion online in lieu of his weekly column at TAC:



A better understanding of political philosophy would probably benefit everyone on this board, and it would certainly improve the level of discourse on such subjects around here. Anyone interested in following the course with me?

This presupposes people don't already understand what you have posted, while having formed their own opinions on political subjects. Both arrogant and condescending at the same time. Congratulations.

BTW, I don't fit any political party because at heart they are just machines and I never found them flexible enough to want to be governed by their rules or principles. Too many times they required me to compromise my individual thoughts to become part of some 'collective'. And if you look at voting records for the last two decades, you see both parties almost identical so I would argue the political parties are really two sides of the same machine, at the moment. This has not always been true in American history, as deep differences have existed. But not so much now.

I have always been an independent and reserve my inalienable right to think for myself. Couldn't care less what a political party thinks because I don't feel the need to identify with one. Not everyone can think this way; some people have a stronger need to belong to something. That is their right.
 

wizards8507

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This presupposes people don't already understand what you have posted, while having formed their own opinions on political subjects. Both arrogant and condescending at the same time. Congratulations.
+1 for Whiskey's point about the need for improved quality of discourse. I'm sure he appreciates you proving his point.
 

Whiskeyjack

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This presupposes people don't already understand what you have posted, while having formed their own opinions on political subjects. Both arrogant and condescending at the same time. Congratulations.

I don't think you could have interpreted those two sentences in a less charitable way. We debate politics and philosophy on IE quite a bit, and I think everyone (myself included!) could benefit from a better understanding of political philosophy. But if this is the sort of attitude you plan to bring to this thread, kindly keep your bravely independent and free-thinking opinions to yourself. (And I'm the arrogant/ condescending one?)

BTW, I don't fit any political party because at heart they are just machines and I never found them flexible enough to want to be governed by their rules or principles. Too many times they required me to compromise my individual thoughts to become part of some 'collective'. And if you look at voting records for the last two decades, you see both parties almost identical so I would argue the political parties are really two sides of the same machine, at the moment. This has not always been true in American history, as deep differences have existed. But not so much now.

I have always been an independent and reserve my inalienable right to think for myself. Couldn't care less what a political party thinks because I don't feel the need to identify with one. Not everyone can think this way; some people have a stronger need to belong to something. That is their right.

Note that the course isn't "Republicans v. Democrats". But a clear-eyed patriot like yourself likely has little time for things like "theory"; you're much too busy building your bunker for when Russia and China nuke the US in order to "pillage our resources."
 
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Irish YJ

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1245227615_colin_farrel.gif
This presupposes people don't already understand what you have posted, while having formed their own opinions on political subjects. Both arrogant and condescending at the same time. Congratulations.
.
 
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Veritate Duce Progredi

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This presupposes people don't already understand what you have posted, while having formed their own opinions on political subjects. Both arrogant and condescending at the same time. Congratulations.

BTW, I don't fit any political party because at heart they are just machines and I never found them flexible enough to want to be governed by their rules or principles. Too many times they required me to compromise my individual thoughts to become part of some 'collective'. And if you look at voting records for the last two decades, you see both parties almost identical so I would argue the political parties are really two sides of the same machine, at the moment. This has not always been true in American history, as deep differences have existed. But not so much now.

I have always been an independent and reserve my inalienable right to think for myself. Couldn't care less what a political party thinks because I don't feel the need to identify with one. Not everyone can think this way; some people have a stronger need to belong to something. That is their right.

It's these types of post that make me wonder if you are so meta that you post such drivel in an attempt to get a rise out of people or if you truly think you are the intellectual equal of whiskey and that your thoughts hold equal merit.

In case you are the latter: Judging by the quality of your posts vs. Whiskey's, you don't possess the same understanding. You should really take time for the class.
 

ryno 24

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I will follow as I can but as a law student I have a lot on my plate
 

palinurus

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I don't think you could have interpreted those two sentences in a less charitable way. We debate politics and philosophy on IE quite a bit, and I think everyone (myself included!) could benefit from a better understanding of political philosophy. But if this is the sort of attitude you plan to bring to this thread, kindly keep your bravely independent and free-thinking opinions to yourself. (And I'm the arrogant/ condescending one?)



Note that the course isn't "Republicans v. Democrats". But a clear-eyed patriot like yourself likely has little time for things like "theory"; you're much too busy building your bunker for when Russia and China nuke the US in order to "pillage our resources."

As though they wouldn't do it if they could....

I'm interested.
 

Bishop2b5

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A better understanding of political philosophy would probably benefit everyone on this board, and it would certainly improve the level of discourse on such subjects around here. Anyone interested in following the course with me?

As a conservative, I'm often baffled by liberals' beliefs of what conservatives stand for, believe in, or are motivated by. Usually when I hear them say, "You believe in this" or "This is why you do that" I'm just dumbfounded by how far off the mark they are. Assuming I may be just as ignorant of their beliefs and motivations, I'd be happy to learn more. By all means, count me in.
 

ACamp1900

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As a conservative, I'm often baffled by liberals' beliefs of what conservatives stand for, believe in, or are motivated by. Usually when I hear them say, "You believe in this" or "This is why you do that" I'm just dumbfounded by how far off the mark they are. Assuming I may be just as ignorant of their beliefs and motivations, I'd be happy to learn more. By all means, count me in.

Racist.
 

woolybug25

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As a conservative, I'm often baffled by liberals' beliefs of what conservatives stand for, believe in, or are motivated by. Usually when I hear them say, "You believe in this" or "This is why you do that" I'm just dumbfounded by how far off the mark they are. Assuming I may be just as ignorant of their beliefs and motivations, I'd be happy to learn more. By all means, count me in.

That's a good outlook, dude.

I will add that I am also equally interested in the history of how both philosophies have changed over time. In particular, I hope they spend some time on the evolution of the southern democrat.
 

Irish YJ

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interesting and something I would have been highly interested in as a student 20+ years ago. happy to learn and will follow as much as I can.

so many big words. I hate labels.
 

Corry

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That's a good outlook, dude.

I will add that I am also equally interested in the history of how both philosophies have changed over time. In particular, I hope they spend some time on the evolution of the southern democrat.

It went the way of the Dodo. Thanks mainly to LBJ, and Obama. Which I've never really understood. You'd think with the amount of people relying on government assistance in the south there would be more people voting Democratic.
 

Bugzly21

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I'll follow and try to keep up but like ryno I have a full plate this term (19 credits)
 
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