General team info

Old Man Mike · Jun 23, 2017

Interesting and thanks. Everyone's comments makes these eternally weak positions (since HSmith and Zeke left) sound like nearly an embarrassment of riches.

So, first a softball question: all these guys have multi-year eligibility left don't they? If so, and they look pretty high quality, why are there so many depressing comments about our secondary situation both now and recruiting? (Also might not an athletically loaded DB situation put off some 2017 recruits?).

Second a more "hardball" question: Can Lyght coach? Can he recruit? Should he have a job? God bless him --- he was a great ND player but .... is he good enough for this job? I really have no data on this, just an itch which says, why aren't we better back there?

koonja · Jun 23, 2017

Old Man Mike said:
Interesting and thanks. Everyone's comments makes these eternally weak positions (since HSmith and Zeke left) sound like nearly an embarrassment of riches.

So, first a softball question: all these guys have multi-year eligibility left don't they? If so, and they look pretty high quality, why are there so many depressing comments about our secondary situation both now and recruiting? (Also might not an athletically loaded DB situation put off some 2017 recruits?).

Second a more "hardball" question: Can Lyght coach? Can he recruit? Should he have a job? God bless him --- he was a great ND player but .... is he good enough for this job? I really have no data on this, just an itch which says, why aren't we better back there?

The Safety position isn't in trouble, CB is. We didn't get a CB last year, and we don't have a CB commit this year. The CB's we get in this class will have to play as sophomores at the latest. So we need to get ones, and good ones.

We basically took 5 CBs in 2016, none in 2017, and so far none in 2018. It should be SO easy to attract CBs, since you need multiple to play big minutes, and we took none and have none this year. We'll get some, but it's concerning (to your 2nd qu) that we haven't been able to land and keep any this year.

BobbyMac · Jun 23, 2017

koonja said:
The Safety position isn't in trouble, CB is. We didn't get a CB last year, and we don't have a CB commit this year. The CB's we get in this class will have to play as sophomores at the latest. So we need to get ones, and good ones.

We basically took 5 CBs in 2016, none in 2017, and so far none in 2018. It should be SO easy to attract CBs, since you need multiple to play big minutes, and we took none and have none this year. We'll get some, but it's concerning (to your 2nd qu) that we haven't been able to land and keep any this year.

While Safety isn't the same problem as it was in the past or as CB is right now, it's a problem in regards to too many scholarships are being used at the position. The pendulum has effectively swung to the opposite end of it's arc.

CB recruiting on the other hand is just a real head scratcher. The guys who they'd accept a commit from right now either don't want them or aren't done with their recruiting process. On the flip side, the guys that would commit right now, don't rank high enough on ND's list to get the offer.

irishtrain · Jun 23, 2017

Old Man Mike said:
Interesting and thanks. Everyone's comments makes these eternally weak positions (since HSmith and Zeke left) sound like nearly an embarrassment of riches.

So, first a softball question: all these guys have multi-year eligibility left don't they? If so, and they look pretty high quality, why are there so many depressing comments about our secondary situation both now and recruiting? (Also might not an athletically loaded DB situation put off some 2017 recruits?).

Second a more "hardball" question: Can Lyght coach? Can he recruit? Should he have a job? God bless him --- he was a great ND player but .... is he good enough for this job? I really have no data on this, just an itch which says, why aren't we better back there?

Mike I went to the spring game this year and they all looked like an upgrade to me, very impressed with length, speed, and football sense of both sets in the game. The problem will be the front 7 leaving them hanging out to dry and putting too much pressure on the d backs to stop the ball, overall all I say its a strength. Athletic bunch of guys. Why aren't we better back there has been the issue of what is up front putting way to much coverage pressure on them.

Luckylucci · Jun 23, 2017

irishtrain said:
Mike I went to the spring game this year and they all looked like an upgrade to me, very impressed with length, speed, and football sense of both sets in the game. The problem will be the front 7 leaving them hanging out to dry and putting too much pressure on the d backs to stop the ball, overall all I say its a strength. Athletic bunch of guys. Why aren't we better back there has been the issue of what is up front putting way to much coverage pressure on them.

Though the production was probably bloated, if we are extrapolating stuff from the spring game. The pass rush looked much improved.

arrowryan · Jun 24, 2017

The CB and S depth chart for 2017 looks pretty good as I think about it. 2016 was hard to watch, but one good thing we can take from it is that a lot of young DBs got playing time. The secondary is the group that I'm probably the least worried about.

Who should start? That's a tough question that I'm glad Elko will have to answer and not me. I can think you can make an argument for a handful of guys: Crawford, Love, Watkins, Pride, Vaughn at CB.

Safety is where I'm most confused at. I have PTSD from Coleman and his ability to tackle (lack of). I think Elliot starting at SS is the closest thing to a guarantee. Can the coaching staff trust a true frosh in Robertson? What happens if the Navy transfer is able to play this year? I'm really hoping Studstill improves, he was one of my favorites coming out of high school.

If I had to guess who starts against Temple, I'll go with...
CB: Crawford
SS: Elliot
FS: Robertson or Coleman
CB: Watkins

*Crawford slides to the slot on Nickle and Love comes in. But CB has tremendous depth at CB this year.

Old Man Mike · Jun 24, 2017

Thank you, friends. Good, calm, serious illumination.

At a risk of being a pest, my look at the Spring game gave me a lot of hope for the Martini/Morgan duo at linebacker, and Tranquil if he stays healthy. That left me wondering about the DLine (of course.) So, questions for the Wise:

Is Cage going to be ready?
Is Tillery going to be at least serviceable? (he mystifies me).
Is Daelin Hayes for real? I thought that he looked good+.
Can J Hayes do the job on the other side?
Can anyone we have serviceably back these guys up? (or are we going to see significant drop-off when we have to sub? )
Are we seeing signs of the Elko magic re: DLine play yet?

BECAUSE, if this DLine is actually "OK to Good" we might have a VERY good defense this season.

jspags10pg · Jun 24, 2017

Old Man Mike said:
Thank you, friends. Good, calm, serious illumination.

At a risk of being a pest, my look at the Spring game gave me a lot of hope for the Martini/Morgan duo at linebacker, and Tranquil if he stays healthy. That left me wondering about the DLine (of course.) So, questions for the Wise:

Is Cage going to be ready?
Is Tillery going to be at least serviceable? (he mystifies me).
Is Daelin Hayes for real? I thought that he looked good+.
Can J Hayes do the job on the other side?
Can anyone we have serviceably back these guys up? (or are we going to see significant drop-off when we have to sub? )
Are we seeing signs of the Elko magic re: DLine play yet?

BECAUSE, if this DLine is actually "OK to Good" we might have a VERY good defense this season.

Cage just had surgery on a meniscus so who knows. Hope he can play because he's darn good when healthy.

Who knows on Tillery but Bonner is getting a lot of time at 3-tech also. Would be good if one of the freshman can step up and play meaningful minutes inside.

Daelin is for real in my opinion. Just needs to stay healthy. I think Okwara will be a good backup there as well.

Jay Hayes should be good on the other side and I think his backups are pretty good too. Kareem and Ogundeji seemed to be getting things down and hitting their stride.

So in summary, I think the D-line starters will all be good to very good and the backups at end shouldn't be too much of a drop off. The real concern is interior depth and health as far as Cage is concerned. Might end up with more Tillery at 1-tech and Bonner at 3-tech depending on how Cage is doing.

IrishLion · Jun 24, 2017

Ewell might need to come in and provide quality snaps as the 4th DT option from day one.

irishtrain · Jun 25, 2017

I'll throw this out about the linebackers-they might be good enough if they didn't have blockers hanging all over them this year-the d line is not a good one at all. If it were me (and of course what do I know) I would blitz both run and pass out the waszo and try to create as much chaos as I could to take the ball away. I would concentrate on stripping and doing anything possible to take the ball away and give it to what looks to be another high powered offense. I would gamble every series and keep the other team from just cramming the ball down the field by run and short passes. If they play it straight with this front seven they will get beat. Temple might move the ball in the first game and if that happens it doesn't post well for the rest of the year. You cannot rely on even a great offense to outscore people and Notre Dame does not have the personnel up front to take pressure off of the offense. All I hear this off season is Kelly is gone Kelly is on the hot seat blahblahblah no coach could do what this fan base wants with this lack of defensive personnel. My only beef with Kelly is recruiting defensive players ( or lack of ) and that may be more due to the requirements at Notre Dame and not his try to make it better. From someone who loves Notre Dame and always will these are the hard cold facts. I purposely went to the spring game this year for this very reason ( to talk logically about this team )and they just don't have the defensive players up front.

jspags10pg · Jun 25, 2017

irishtrain said:
I'll throw this out about the linebackers-they might be good enough if they didn't have blockers hanging all over them this year-the d line is not a good one at all. If it were me (and of course what do I know) I would blitz both run and pass out the waszo and try to create as much chaos as I could to take the ball away. I would concentrate on stripping and doing anything possible to take the ball away and give it to what looks to be another high powered offense. I would gamble every series and keep the other team from just cramming the ball down the field by run and short passes. If they play it straight with this front seven they will get beat. Temple might move the ball in the first game and if that happens it doesn't post well for the rest of the year. You cannot rely on even a great offense to outscore people and Notre Dame does not have the personnel up front to take pressure off of the offense. All I hear this off season is Kelly is gone Kelly is on the hot seat blahblahblah no coach could do what this fan base wants with this lack of defensive personnel. My only beef with Kelly is recruiting defensive players ( or lack of ) and that may be more due to the requirements at Notre Dame and not his try to make it better. From someone who loves Notre Dame and always will these are the hard cold facts. I purposely went to the spring game this year for this very reason ( to talk logically about this team )and they just don't have the defensive players up front.

It is a concern, especially against the big boys we'll play but Wake Forest had a MUCH better defense, both at creating havoc and pressure on the QB and at stopping the run, than ND did last year. Of Wake Forest's starters on the D-line the highest rated one on 247's composite was the 1059th overall rated player in his class. Elko will be working with way more talent at ND in year one than he ever had at Wake (and obviously Bowling Green). I see a big improvement coming our way. I'm not saying dominance but definitely improvement.

Elko had what, 15 practices to right BVG's wrongs before the spring game? And most of that was just working on fundamentals and getting the team back to speed in that department. Give him and the S&C staff some more time and they'll get this figured out. Elko turns things around fast at all his stops. ND will be no different. Like I said, I'm not expecting dominance from the defensive line but there will undoubtedly be improvement.

Also keep in mind that they were playing against some of the best O-linemen in the country in the spring game. They won't see a better OG all year than Q. Wont see a stronger Center than Mustipher. And wont see a better OT (especially run blocking) than Big Mike. Bars also playing at his best position is big.

The D-line will improve and the defense as a whole will improve.

Irish YJ · Jun 25, 2017

jspags10pg said:
It is a concern, especially against the big boys we'll play but Wake Forest had a MUCH better defense, both at creating havoc and pressure on the QB and at stopping the run, than ND did last year. Of Wake Forest's starters on the D-line the highest rated one on 247's composite was the 1059th overall rated player in his class. Elko will be working with way more talent at ND in year one than he ever had at Wake (and obviously Bowling Green). I see a big improvement coming our way. I'm not saying dominance but definitely improvement.

Elko had what, 15 practices to right BVG's wrongs before the spring game? And most of that was just working on fundamentals and getting the team back to speed in that department. Give him and the S&C staff some more time and they'll get this figured out. Elko turns things around fast at all his stops. ND will be no different. Like I said, I'm not expecting dominance from the defensive line but there will undoubtedly be improvement.

Also keep in mind that they were playing against some of the best O-linemen in the country in the spring game. They won't see a better OG all year than Q. Wont see a stronger Center than Mustipher. And wont see a better OT (especially run blocking) than Big Mike. Bars also playing at his best position is big.

The D-line will improve and the defense as a whole will improve.

That is my thought too. Something has to give with a clear upgrade of talent in E's hands.
I don't know though if it's realistic, or I'm just.....

BobbyMac · Jun 25, 2017

jspags10pg said:
It is a concern, especially against the big boys we'll play but Wake Forest had a MUCH better defense, both at creating havoc and pressure on the QB and at stopping the run, than ND did last year. Of Wake Forest's starters on the D-line the highest rated one on 247's composite was the 1059th overall rated player in his class. Elko will be working with way more talent at ND in year one than he ever had at Wake (and obviously Bowling Green). I see a big improvement coming our way. I'm not saying dominance but definitely improvement.

Elko had what, 15 practices to right BVG's wrongs before the spring game? And most of that was just working on fundamentals and getting the team back to speed in that department. Give him and the S&C staff some more time and they'll get this figured out. Elko turns things around fast at all his stops. ND will be no different. Like I said, I'm not expecting dominance from the defensive line but there will undoubtedly be improvement.

Also keep in mind that they were playing against some of the best O-linemen in the country in the spring game. They won't see a better OG all year than Q. Wont see a stronger Center than Mustipher. And wont see a better OT (especially run blocking) than Big Mike. Bars also playing at his best position is big.

The D-line will improve and the defense as a whole will improve.

Irish YJ said:
That is my thought too. Something has to give with a clear upgrade of talent in E's hands.
I don't know though if it's realistic, or I'm just.....

Look at the improvements made under Hudson on the fly. It still shocks me that he was able to get them to:

44th overall ... 24th Run ... 70th Pass

Now throw in 9 months of Balis Built and improved play from the CB's on experience alone.

I always come back to this guy, Jessie Bates.

<iframe class="twofourseven-embed" style="max-width: 100%" frameborder="0" width="600" height="200" src="http://247sports.com/PlayerSport/Jessie-Bates-at-R-Nelson-Snider-117478/Embed"></iframe><script async src="https://assets.247sports.com/Scripts/SkyNet/Shared/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If Elko was able to "steal" him from Fort Wayne IN - ND didn't sniff him even when their All American LB is from the same town - redshirt him and then turn him into an All ACC safety in year 2? Elko will have to fail to prove to me he's not the guy.

Also, if Bates doesn't go to the league after his Sr. year don't be surprised if he GT's to SB.

<iframe width="600" height="300" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PAahpNOSvP0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Crazy Balki · Jun 25, 2017

I don't think the DL is going to be as bad as some on here are fearing. That position was significantly held back by the lack of adequate S&C program. Already seeing dividends from a size perspective.

If the guys up front look anywhere near like what Jay Hayes currently looks like, this unit will sure as sh*t look the part.

phgreek · Jun 25, 2017

Crazy Balki said:
I don't think the DL is going to be as bad as some on here are fearing. That position was significantly held back by the lack of adequate S&C program. Already seeing dividends from a size perspective.

If the guys up front look anywhere near like what Jay Hayes currently looks like, this unit will sure as sh*t look the part.

I don't think they will flush the season for ND, but I suspect we'll see some leaks against talent...Georgia will be a big measuring stick for both O and D lines.

koonja · Jun 26, 2017

Just bought house in IL. Get Fn' Hype.

People Think Bob Stoops Is Going To Coach Notre Dame

If Bob Stoops Coaches Again, Where Could He Go? | College Football News

5 Conspiracy Theories On What Bob Stoops Will Do Next

Veritate Duce Progredi · Jun 26, 2017

koonja said:
Just bought house in IL. Get Fn' Hype.

People Think Bob Stoops Is Going To Coach Notre Dame

If Bob Stoops Coaches Again, Where Could He Go? | College Football News

5 Conspiracy Theories On What Bob Stoops Will Do Next

Being a skeptic, I doubt Stoops ever coaches ND. But, I will say it's not outside the realm of possibilities that Swarbrick has already had discussions with potential coaches should Kelly move on in the future. Or perhaps Swarbrick and Kelly have already laid out plans for an exit strategy and that's why Kelly has taken a more hands off approach/going outside his network for the recent hires.

Best case scenario, we win 10+, Kelly realizes the value of going outside his circle, and we contend for a playoff spot every year with a natty in the next 4.

Worst case scenario, we win 8 because that is lukewarm bullsh!t.

Luckylucci · Jun 26, 2017

IrishLion said:
Ewell might need to come in and provide quality snaps as the 4th DT option from day one.

We'll see how it plays out but I believe that is the expectation. I believe on NSD they said something to the effect of, him coming in and having an impact immediately, or being physically able to compete right away, something like that.

On another note, Tillery needs to get his stuff together and have the season we've been waiting for.

Luckylucci · Jun 26, 2017

irishtrain said:
I'll throw this out about the linebackers-they might be good enough if they didn't have blockers hanging all over them this year-the d line is not a good one at all. If it were me (and of course what do I know) I would blitz both run and pass out the waszo and try to create as much chaos as I could to take the ball away. I would concentrate on stripping and doing anything possible to take the ball away and give it to what looks to be another high powered offense. I would gamble every series and keep the other team from just cramming the ball down the field by run and short passes. If they play it straight with this front seven they will get beat. Temple might move the ball in the first game and if that happens it doesn't post well for the rest of the year. You cannot rely on even a great offense to outscore people and Notre Dame does not have the personnel up front to take pressure off of the offense. All I hear this off season is Kelly is gone Kelly is on the hot seat blahblahblah no coach could do what this fan base wants with this lack of defensive personnel. My only beef with Kelly is recruiting defensive players ( or lack of ) and that may be more due to the requirements at Notre Dame and not his try to make it better. From someone who loves Notre Dame and always will these are the hard cold facts. I purposely went to the spring game this year for this very reason ( to talk logically about this team )and they just don't have the defensive players up front.

Cold hard facts, huh? We could start a DL with all 4 star players this year if we wanted to. So, "cold hard facts" might be a little bit of an exaggeration when saying Kelly doesn't recruit defensive players, lol. A pet peeve of mine on message boards is folks using that term, or something close to it, when not stating anything remotely close to facts. Tillery (LSU), J. Hayes (Florida), D. Hayes (USC), Trumbetti (Florida), Khalid Kareem (UM), Darnell Ewell are all 4 star players. All could have went to other big programs and were recruited to do so.

Certainly been some gaps at certain positions but to say he doesn't do it, and call it a fact, might not be accurate.

Also, I have to slightly question this as well. How many sacks did we have in the Spring Game? Some of those wouldn't have been so they were bloated to some degree but D. Hayes, Ade O, J. Hayes, just straight beat the OL across from them and could have ruined Wimbush or Book's day. That's a cold hard fact.

Luckylucci · Jun 26, 2017

Haha, so I went back and found this.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fact: Mike Elko's defense posted nine sacks during the first half. Conclusion: Pass rush is fixed.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/855839870023020544">April 22, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I wouldn't personally make this declaration but he too was at the game and didn't come away with a sky is falling post on how terrible our DL was.

Luckylucci · Jun 26, 2017

Here's another assessment of the Spring Game and the DL.

https://www.uhnd.com/football/notre-dame-football-2017-spring-game-overview-36366/

The flip side of the offensive line struggling is that means the perceived weakness of the team, the defensive line, looked pretty good. Daelin Hayes looked vastly improved, which is the best news of the day, coming up with three (legit) sacks and recording seven tackles. He used up Tommy Kraemer at right tackle pretty good, which is what you want to see him be able to do. Jay Hayes even used a speed rush that left Mike McGlinchey lunging to no avail, so maybe Mike Elko is magic after all.

With the help of the secondary at times, the defensive line held up pretty well in the run game, which is what you want to see. Notre Dame has the talent at linebacker to make plays behind them if they can take up blockers and muck up the play. They weren’t dominant, of course, but it was nice to see some solid play there.

dang227 · Jul 8, 2017

General team info

I don't know where to post this but I read on twitter Bob Elliot is now in hospice. Thoughts and prayers to him and his family.

Thoughts & prayers to former @hawkeyefootball great & DC @BobElliottGBR who is now in hospice after 20+ years of illness. Truly a 🏈legend.

woolybug25 · Jul 8, 2017

dang227 said:
I don't know where to post this but I read on twitter Bob Elliot is now in hospice. Thoughts and prayers to him and his family.

This is terrible news. I'm sure he can use all positive vibes and prayers from everyone. Terribly saddened by this.

Notre Dame Man

Old Man Mike · Jul 8, 2017

This is sad. Bob Elliot came to ND hoping that he could settle his life down and retire here. The BVG fiasco screwed that up, and the new system (and Diaco's shift to Nebraska) gave him another "last stop" in coaching, but he deserved a longer period of peace than this.

BeauBenken · Jul 8, 2017

Wishing Bob the best. I will make an appropriate thread for this when the news can be confirmed. Right now it all seems to link back to a reddit post that links back to a facebook post.

Ndaccountant · Jul 8, 2017

BeauBenken said:
Wishing Bob the best. I will make an appropriate thread for this when the news can be confirmed. Right now it all seems to link back to a reddit post that links back to a facebook post.

He did resign from Nebraska a few weeks ago and Booker took his spot. Hope it isn't true, but I fear it is.

Irish YJ · Jul 8, 2017

https://nebraska.forums.rivals.com/threads/it-is-being-reported-coach-bob-elliott-is-in-hospice.179232/

Nothing confirmed but one poster claims to have been added to Bob's memorial page.

Many, many prayers for Bob and family.

Dizzyphil · Jul 11, 2017

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"> Countdown to Kickoff: 53 Days<br><br>Johnny Lattner won ND's 4th Heisman Trophy in Frank Leahy's final year as <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball">@NDFootball</a> coach in 1953. <a href="https://t.co/vhVJxjfEPP">pic.twitter.com/vhVJxjfEPP</a></p>— The Fighting Irish (@FightingIrish) <a href="https://twitter.com/FightingIrish/status/884838492278337536">July 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

woolybug25 · Jul 13, 2017

Fwiw, I was told today by someone I believe to be very well in the know, that there are a great deals of injuries on the team right now being treated. Has anyone heard this or have any knowledge on it?

zelezo vlk · Jul 13, 2017

woolybug25 said:
Fwiw, I was told today by someone I believe to be very well in the know, that there are a great deals of injuries on the team right now being treated. Has anyone heard this or have any knowledge on it?

You mean that guys were injured and weren't treated until now? Or that a couple guys have been injured since we last heard?

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