Freezageddon

[IrishSteelhead]

Freezageddon

I have and had no problem. Extremely cold temperatures? I have no problems shielding kids from those, but there were several times that the IPS had 2 hour delays last year where I was extremely confused by the decision. It wasn't below 0, even with wind chill. That's when kids need to be protected, but last year it seemed like IPS was being overly cautious and the kids later paid for it by making up the time lost.

I agree some were excessive, but Mayor Ballard was pretty adamant about it, and all of Marion County naturally followed suit. We had 7 cancellations last year and 3 delays in IPS: Hamilton, Boone, etc. had 5 cancellations and 5 delays. Obviously the clientele at the latter are better equipped to find a way to school, or stay warmer waiting for buses.

 

[GowerND11]

Why are kids waiting outside for the bus for 30 minutes? I took the bus every day and I was never out there more than 5.

Parents had to drop them off then leave for work. Bus won't start because the diesel is jelly. Kids want to leave the house because of certain family situations. etc. etc.

In PA there is a law that if the school is within a mile and it has accessible sidewalks all the way through town buses are not required. Some school districts around here, which are small and have limited resources, have removed in town busing to cut back on costs. They will only bus students from outside the central town of the district. Thus you have students walking, sometimes up to a mile, in these conditions. As others have said, if the student is poor (or lazy) they will walk to school with little more than a hoodie.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I agree some were excessive, but Mayor Ballard was pretty adamant about it, and all of Marion County naturally followed suit. We had 7 cancellations last year and 3 delays in IPS, Hamilton, Boone, etc. had 5 cancellations and 5 delays. Obviously the clientele at the latter are better equipped to find a way to school, or stay warmer waiting for buses.

Thanks. I'm not a cold hearted sumbitch, but there are consequences to 2 hour delays and days off of school.

 

[woolybug25]

Okay so if 7 is too cold for safety in Indianapolis, what do you all suggest they do in the parts of Maine, Minnesota, and Alaska where those temperatures are normal averages? Those kids would never be in school.

Those states have different infrastructure, but even there they cancel school at 7 if the windchill is cold enough. Also, none of those states have 7 degrees before windchill as a normal average. The average Jan LOW temp AK is 9 degrees and that's when there is almost zero daylight. Most of the time, even in January, AK is closer to the 20's.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Thanks. I'm not a cold hearted sumbitch, but there are consequences to 2 hour delays and days off of school.

I agree. The state understands though, and standardized testing gets pushed back in relation to days missed.

 

[wizards8507]

Some kids even... gasp.... walk to school... (my heavens)

Ha, and I'm the "tough guy."

There were 4,749 pedestrian fatalities in 2003. The 0-14 age group accounted for 390 (8 percent) of those fatalities, and 65 percent of the pedestrian fatalities in this age group were males. In addition to the pedestrians under 15 years old who died, 17,000 were injured in motor vehicle crashes.

If you want to play the "protect your kids from danger" card, your kid is much more likely to get run over by a car walking to school than he is to loose his finger to frostbite.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Freezageddon

Those states have different infrastructure, but even there they cancel school at 7 if the windchill is cold enough. Also, none of those states have 7 degrees before windchill as a normal average. The average Jan LOW temp AK is 9 degrees and that's when there is almost zero daylight. Most of the time, even in January, AK is closer to the 20's.

THIS. I grew up near Chicago, and saw winters as bad as these last two, but we never missed school because the infrastructure (bus routes/stops, etc.) and city plowing systems were far more prepared for weather of this type.

Indy simply isn't. The city spent it's entire salt/plow budget last year in less than two weeks when "Hercules" came.

 

[woolybug25]

If you want to play the "protect your kids from danger" card, your kid is much more likely to get run over by a car walking to school than he is to loose his finger to frostbite.

But the frostbite is entirely predictable and preventable. Getting hit by a car is not. They are totally unrelated.

The fact remains that if the weather will cause frostbite at exposures less than 30 minutes, you are simply rolling the dice with an entire student body having to find ways to get there. Again... if it's simply kids being soft. Go for a 30+ minute walk without gloves and a hat today. For many kids, that's a reality.

 

[dshans]

When I was a kid..............

This?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/HW4IZ0Flh3M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MNIrishman]

Those states have different infrastructure, but even there they cancel school at 7 if the windchill is cold enough. Also, none of those states have 7 degrees before windchill as a normal average. The average Jan LOW temp AK is 9 degrees and that's when there is almost zero daylight. Most of the time, even in January, AK is closer to the 20's.

Could you elaborate on what infrastructure differences you perceive between Minneapolis and Indy that would help ameliorate cold conditions? I'm also curious as to which city you looked up in Alaska, since there are significant differences between the main three cities.

 

[GowerND11]

But the frostbite is entirely predictable and preventable. Getting hit by a car is not. They are totally unrelated.

The fact remains that if the weather will cause frostbite at exposures less than 30 minutes, you are simply rolling the dice with an entire student body having to find ways to get there. Again... if it's simply kids being soft. Go for a 30+ minute walk without gloves and a hat today. For many kids, that's a reality.

Especially when, as I said above, the districts in some places won't provide transportation for students.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Not everyone lives in your surburban dreamland.

Some kids even... gasp.... walk to school... (my heavens)

(obligatory planning minirant)

I believe in 1980, 50% of kids walked to school, today I think it's ~9%.

 

[connor_in]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mPb8m95XvVA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Go to 1:46 for explanation of wind chill factor

 

[woolybug25]

Could you elaborate on what infrastructure differences you perceive between Minneapolis and Indy that would help ameliorate cold conditions? I'm also curious as to which city you looked up in Alaska, since there are significant differences between the main three cities.

1) In cities like Minneapolis, who has far colder weather, for prolonged periods. They have more plows, better sidewalk clearing, more bus pickup locations, etc. The city is used to having that type of weather, so they have the tools and ability to effectively maneuver it. Indy get's weather like this maybe once or twice a year. So they do not have the same infrastructure to handle it, as its not the norm.

3) Considering Anchorage has more than four times the amount of people as Fairbanks and Juneau combined, and the vast majority of public schools, I used that. I just looked though and both Juneau and Fairbanks are similar, even warmer in Jeneau's case. This is all semantics to the original point, however.

 

[wizards8507]

Another question. If a parent is so irresponsible to send their kid out in 7 degree weather without a proper coat, what exactly is that parent going to do in terms of supervising that kid now that school has been cancelled?

 

[FearTheBeard]

I think its funny to call the kids soft...as if theyre the ones who decide if schools cancelled or delayed...

 

[wizards8507]

I think its funny to call the kids soft...as if theyre the ones who decide if schools cancelled or delayed...

Um, I didn't call the kids soft. I called the decision to cancel school soft.

 

[woolybug25]

(obligatory planning minirant)

I believe in 1980, 50% of kids walked to school, today I think it's ~9%.

That's all fine and dandy, but why should rural America care that the majority population (who lived in more developed cities) uses more buses? That doesn't help the kids walking to school in my small town. That stat reflects more to the change in demographics since the 80's than anything.

 

[connor_in]

I agree. The state understands though, and standardized testing gets pushed back in relation to days missed.

HA!

Yeah, I have like 4 family members employed by th local school system...northern Indiana btw...and last year the state forgave TWO school closings for all school systems...the systems had to make up what ever number over that they missed in order to get to the state mandated number of days in class.


FYI...2 hour delay days still count as a school day to the state but a closed day obviously does not


One more item...any one who teaches or has family that does will know this...Teachers HATE really cold days that the kids have full days w/ recess...this is because if the temp/wind chill is below a certain limit, they don't go out and have indoor recess...the kids don't get to release enough pent up energy in that and after a couple of days straight, keeping the kids in line is like herding cats

 

[woolybug25]

Another question. If a parent is so irresponsible to send their kid out in 7 degree weather without a proper coat, what exactly is that parent going to do in terms of supervising that kid now that school has been cancelled?

So are you going to just keep ripping off questions, have me knock them down, then ask another?


How is the school supposed to manage how a kid is looked out for at home? All they can manage is the danger they themselves put the children in risk of. For instance, making a student body find a way to school in dangerous temperatures is within their control. Stopping parents from neglect is not.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Freezageddon

HA!



Yeah, I have like 4 family members employed by th local school system...northern Indiana btw...and last year the state forgave TWO school closings for all school systems...the systems had to make up what ever number over that they missed in order to get to the state mandated number of days in class.





FYI...2 hour delay days still count as a school day to the state but a closed day obviously does not





One more item...any one who teaches or has family that does will know this...Teachers HATE really cold days that the kids have full days w/ recess...this is because if the temp/wind chill is below a certain limit, they don't go out and have indoor recess...the kids don't get to release enough pent up energy in that and after a couple of days straight, keeping the kids in line is like herding cats

Recess is a luxury a lot of city schools (read: failing) can't even afford anymore. That time is spent in remediation groups.

 

[wizards8507]

That's all fine and dandy, but why should rural America care that the majority population (who lived in more developed cities) uses more buses? That doesn't help the kids walking to school in my small town. That stat reflects more to the change in demographics since the 80's than anything.

Buster supports New Urbanism where everyone lives in an 800 square foot apartment above a Chinese restaurant, next to the church, across the street from the school, and down the alley from the office building. He has no time for your "rural America" or my bourgeois ticky tacky suburbanism.

I kid, BB.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Not everyone lives in your surburban dreamland.

Some kids even... gasp.... walk to school... (my heavens)

It was -25 with the wind chill here this morning. School wasn't cancelled for my kids, but many surrounding were. The school my kids attend make you walk to school from 5th grade and up if you are within a 1.5 mile radius from your school.

 

[wizards8507]

So are you going to just keep ripping off questions, have me knock them down, then ask another?

That's why I make the big bucks.

How is the school supposed to manage how a kid is looked out for at home?

They're not. YOU'RE the one who introduced parental irresponsibility to this conversation (kids wearing hoodies and no coats, remember?) as a reason why cancelling school would be appropriate.

 

[MNIrishman]

1) In cities like Minneapolis, who has far colder weather, for prolonged periods. They have more plows, better sidewalk clearing, more bus pickup locations, etc. The city is used to having that type of weather, so they have the tools and ability to effectively maneuver it. Indy get's weather like this maybe once or twice a year. So they do not have the same infrastructure to handle it, as its not the norm.

3) Considering Anchorage has more than four times the amount of people as Fairbanks and Juneau combined, and the vast majority of public schools, I used that. I just looked though and both Juneau and Fairbanks are similar, even warmer in Jeneau's case. This is all semantics to the original point, however.

I meant just the cold conditions, not the snow clearing, which is pretty good most of the time. I'd be curious to see if the buses/capita were indeed different, since a larger number of stops with the same number of buses would only increase the average student's wait time in the cold (more stops=more travel time per bus route---->more time per student on route). Anecdotally, I do not notice much difference between Minneapolis and my hometown in Columbus in terms of infrastructure that would make a difference.

As you noted, just semantics, but Fairbanks is much, much colder in the winter than either Anchorage or Juneau due to its inland location (January high is only just above 0, with low nearly -20, compared to a low of about 11 for Anchorage in the same month.). Interestingly, Fairbanks has a stated policy of NEVER closing for cold weather alone: Extreme Winter Weather | Fairbanks North Star Borough School District. I wonder how they handle parents who do not properly equip their children for the conditions.

 

[ND NYC]

this one page is a microcosm of why I love this place (IE):

we get to use the word "ameliorate" in a post

we learn the exact temperature and wind chill that cause frostbite.

we learn that less than 9% of all kids in the US walk to school.


where else on the interwebs can you hope to do and find all this, at this is just on one page--much less all we learn in all the other threads about world events, politics, finance, etc?

 

[wizards8507]

where else on the interwebs can you hope to do and find all this, at this is just on one page--much less all we learn in all the other threads about world events, politics, finance, etc?

MGOBLOG?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Freezageddon

They're not. YOU'RE the one who introduced parental irresponsibility to this conversation (kids wearing hoodies and no coats, remember?) as a reason why cancelling school would be appropriate.

That was me, and I'm under the impression you are being difficult for the sole purpose of doing so. I appreciate debate as much as the next guy, but sense things are different in here.

*my apologies if I'm off on this assessment

 

[wizards8507]

That was me, and I'm under the impression you are being difficult for the sole purpose of doing so.

Only with wooly. It's our schtick, see. As old as time... or at least as old as the "rumored violations" thread.

I honest-to-goodness never heard of cancelling school for cold.

 

[MNIrishman]

MGOBLOG?

Not sure if sarcastic or not, but mgoblow is much more restrictive of OT topics than we are here.