Feminism

[IrishLax]

So now we are back to the when does life begin and when do abortions happen argument. If your argument is that life begins when the fetus becomes viable outside of the womb, then abortions aren't performed that late in pregnancy unless it is a medical emergency.

Not to be a dick, but I don't know how you can possibly read what I wrote in that post and say that's "my argument." Second of all, laws vary by state and there are various instances in certain places where you can get an abortion past the point in time I noted in that post.

Okay, I have several counter-arguments to several different posters who have seen fit to jump at me for my previous sentiments. So, in no particular order:

2.) For those saying that life starts at conception/life starts at "x" weeks/toddlers aren't able to be self-sufficient and therefore somehow an argument as to why abortions should be illegal. 92% of abortions performed are performed before 13 weeks gestation. At this stage, the fetus is the size of a pea pod, and weighs 1 ounce. Nowhere near being able survive outside of the womb. Notice I did not say "being able to survive". Because I realize that toddlers couldn't be dropped into the middle of a jungle and survive. That's not what it means. But a toddler can very much feed itself, breathe oxygen in and out of its lungs without help, react to stimuli, adapt to its environment, and grow/develop. It would probably be eaten by a bigger predator because they're young and relatively weak, but the basic tenets are there and don't think for a minute that I don't know that you are making ludicrous arguments as a way to deflect. You absolutely know it's not the same argument.

It's just kind of funny to read this thread before and after this post. Before, it's high brow and civil discussion of differing perspectives on a controversial topic. After, it's a bloodbath.

Anyways:
1. This paragraph does nothing to address the philosophical and scientific viewpoints expressed by others about life starting at conception. Your argument at one point can be summarized as "it's small so it's OK to kill it."
2. This paragraph does nothing to talk about the 8% that happen later than that arbitrary point in time you picked, and does nothing to discuss on any kind of logical/philosophical level if that should be legal.

You basically just yelled a bunch of disjointed talking points that do nothing to address what other people were saying. You act like this is some slam down, when really you're just trolling people into getting angry at the ludicrous nature of this post.

4.) This would be a very different conversation we were having if it were female congresspeople making decisions on whether or not men are able to have vasectomies. And before you all hyperventilate and start pounding on your keyboard about how it's 'not the same' - I KNOW IT'S NOT THE SAME. Men aren't able to bear children, so no analogy I could EVER make will be "the same". But it's comparable. So I'm going to make two comparable analogies to try to get you guys to have some semblance of empathy here to something you all have no idea what it's like to endure. So let's just pretend for a minute and imagine that a congress, made up predominantly of women, were getting to make decisions that said, "All men over 14 have to have mandatory vasectomies because reasons". Or "No man under 50 is allowed to have a vasectomy for any reason because they can't decide for themselves whether or not they can have children". Your argument (other than it's not the "SAME") is that it would be wrong for the government to be able to tell you what you can and can't do with your body. How about the government telling men they couldn't have their mandatory vasectomies reversed until they could prove they had $150,000 sitting in a trust for any possible baby that would be born as a result of the sex they were going to have? After all - if they don't want the possible repercussions of a baby, they shouldn't be having sex in the first place either, right?.

This is literally one of the most nonsensical and crazy things I've ever read on this site.

 

[IrishLax]

Brock Turner Released From Jail After Serving 3 Months For Sexual Assault

A real monster there, too.

LOL

WHAT DOES BROCK TURNER HAVE TO DO WITH ABORTION!?!?

I mean hell... from that school and that area of the country, odds are strong he's pro-choice and liberal...

This is a masterclass in trolling. People should take notes.

 

[Bishop2b5]

And if you want to start forcing women to carry a fetus they don't want to term and force them to birth it, I will be happy to drive the baby to your doorstep and drop it off for you to care/pay for for 18+ years.

I've always thought this was such a ridiculous false analogy. I'm against a man beating his wife. Doesn't mean I have to be willing to take every beaten wife into my home to believe him doing so is wrong. Liberals are against the death penalty for moral reasons. They don't have to be willing to take Joe Axemurder in as a roommate in order to believe executing him is wrong. Would it be OK for someone to kill their 3-year-old as long as nobody else was willing to adopt him?

 

[Bishop2b5]

So now we are back to the when does life begin and when do abortions happen argument. If your argument is that life begins when the fetus becomes viable outside of the womb, then abortions aren't performed that late in pregnancy unless it is a medical emergency.

There's no medical emergency that justifies or even calls for aborting a fetus that is viable outside of the womb. At that point, you induce labor or you do a C-section, depending on the medical emergency, and deliver a viable baby.

I'm uncomfortable with, but understand and support, abortions before the baby is viable due to genuine medical issues with the mother. If she's very unlikely to survive the pregnancy or carrying the child to term will put her life at undue risk, I believe terminating the pregnancy is the lesser of two evils. For example, if a woman was diagnosed with cancer early in her pregnancy and delaying treatment until her child was born would likely kill her, I can go along with aborting the fetus. It's a "save the mom or save the baby (or maybe save neither)" call.

Aborting a viable baby is never called for. There's no justification, medically, for aborting it at that point. Just deliver it.

 

[wizards8507]

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The year is 2017: Feminists are advocating for Sharia Law and Nazis are subscribed to trannies on Youtube <a href="https://t.co/dLKxWAll2b">pic.twitter.com/dLKxWAll2b</a></p>— BLAIRE WHITE 💋 (@MsBlaireWhite) <a href="https://twitter.com/MsBlaireWhite/status/828353639525650432">February 5, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[BeauBenken]

What makes beauty standards fascist? These types of so-called liberal people don't even know what they're saying.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The year is 2017: Feminists are advocating for Sharia Law and Nazis are subscribed to trannies on Youtube <a href="https://t.co/dLKxWAll2b">pic.twitter.com/dLKxWAll2b</a></p>— BLAIRE WHITE 💋 (@MsBlaireWhite) <a href="https://twitter.com/MsBlaireWhite/status/828353639525650432">February 5, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Hesrightyouknow.jpg

 

[kmoose]

So the argument is that since PP can theoretically mix its pots of federal money therefore all money to PP has the potential to fund an abortion? I dont think that analogy seems accurate. Hmmmm that seems simple enough to fix without defunding if true though. And correct me if am wrong but we are talking Medicaid right? Like low income women who need an abortion cant get one in the exception of rape/incest or the threatened life of the mother from Medicaid funds?

Do you have any other evidence for the documented abuse of the maternal health claim?

Without commenting on the right or wrong of the strategy, I think the strategy is that, if Planned Parenthood were defunded, the funds that they now use to provide abortions would then be diverted to the programs previously funded by Federal dollars. In effect choking off abortion services.

 

[Legacy]

Here’s What a Trump Administration Could Mean for Campus Sexual Assault (The Cut)

During Betsy DeVos’s Senate confirmation hearing yesterday afternoon, Trump’s nominee for Department of Education secretary dodged questions about how she would address college sexual assault — a top concern under the Obama administration.

Over the last eight years, the White House took bold steps to combat high rates of sexual violence and harassment on college campuses. In 2011, the Obama administration issued Title IX guidance, which said that schools were responsible for protecting students from sexual harassment and sexual violence on their campuses. In response, the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights launched investigations into more than 300 schools for failing to comply.

During the hearing, DeVos said it would be “premature” to commit to upholding Obama’s Title IX guidance, and she wanted to know more about the issue, setting off alarm bells for sexual-assault activists and educators. Andrea Pino, co-founder of End Rape on Campus, co-wrote a letter with the group Know Your IX to DeVos, calling on the nominee to support survivors. “[The Obama] administration has been so influential in getting the things we once thought of as dreams to be a reality. I think there is a lot of fear and uncertainty now,” Pino said. “We can still step backwards.”

Betsy DeVos’ confirmation threatens Title IX enforcement (Michigan Daily)

Under President Donald Trump’s administration, the fate of Title IX and actions associated with it, both nationally and at the University of Michigan, are uncertain.

In 2011, the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights, in conjunction with then-President Obama’s administration, released a “Dear Colleague” letter to universities, emphasizing Title IX’s prohibition of discrimination “on the basis of sex in education programs or activities operated by recipients of Federal financial assistance.”

DeVos sparked particular concern upon responding to questions regarding Title IX at her hearing in January. When asked if she would preserve the Title IX guidance, her response was deemed ambiguous.

“If confirmed, I look forward to understanding the past actions and current situation better, and to ensuring that the intent of the law is actually carried out in a way that recognizes both the victim … as well as those who are accused,” DeVos said.

Upon further prompting, DeVos said it would be “premature” to affirm her commitment to the preservation of the guidance at that time.

“The Trump administration does not have the same commitment to addressing campus sexual assault that the Obama administration did,” she wrote. “Multiple key players in the Trump administration, including Betsy DeVos, have spoken against the interpretation of Title IX currently used by the Department of Education. Title IX will likely remain on the books as written, just as it did in the Obama administration, but I suspect it won't be enforced the same way it has been in recent years in regards to sexual assault.”

“The administration has hinted that they don't see the value in many policies aimed at preventing violence against women and offering survivors resources for recovery, including the Violence Against Women's Act and support for Planned Parenthood,” she wrote. “I can't imagine the administration would be any more sympathetic to the struggle for safety on campus.”

In short, DeVoss may well be in favor of limiting Title IX investigations of sexual assaults on universty campuses, turning over the disposition of them to local law enforcement, e.g. Waco PD, Tallahasee PD, campus security, etc

 

[ulukinatme]

Along with the stuff that was posted about PP only offering prenatal care at 5% of their offices, and claiming that 3% of what they do is abortions...

https://www.facebook.com/liveaction/videos/10154959592988728/
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fliveaction%2Fvideos%2F10154959592988728%2F&show_text=0&width=400" width="400" height="400" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

Sure seems like the name "Planned Parenthood" is misleading.

 

[NorthDakota]

Here’s What a Trump Administration Could Mean for Campus Sexual Assault (The Cut)



Betsy DeVos’ confirmation threatens Title IX enforcement (Michigan Daily)

In short, DeVoss may well be in favor of limiting Title IX investigations of sexual assaults on universty campuses, turning over the disposition of them to local law enforcement, e.g. Waco PD, Tallahasee PD, campus security, etc

Yeah Obama was killing it...I mean.. Baylor really cleaned their act up on his watch...

 

[Irish#1]

Concerning assaults on campus, I'm not sure the Feds need to be conducting their own investigations. Seems like this is truly a local law enforcement matter. I have no problem with the Feds pulling money from schools if local authorities find grounds for arrest and conviction.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Just pulled up this quote because it's an example of one of the many references to "Christianity". I'm assuming you are referring to pre reformation Christianity ie Catholicism. Is that correct?

Yes. That's why I often preface references to Christianity with "orthodox". Jesus only founded one church, and it's no coincidence that Rome is the last major denomination holding the line against things like contraception, no-fault divorce and abortion. But I try to frame my arguments in broad ecumenical language that our "separated" brethren are more likely to agree with.

 

[NorthDakota]

Concerning assaults on campus, I'm not sure the Feds need to be conducting their own investigations. Seems like this is truly a local law enforcement matter. I have no problem with the Feds pulling money from schools if local authorities find grounds for arrest and conviction.

My one concern there is the unintended consequence of local authorities looking the other way. Many universities are the economic engine of the community, getting funding slashed hurts everyone in the area.

 

[Irish#1]

My one concern there is the unintended consequence of local authorities looking the other way. Many universities are the economic engine of the community, getting funding slashed hurts everyone in the area.

Perhaps state authorities should conduct the investigation with a provision that it can be taken over by the Feds if necessary.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Yes. That's why I often preface references to Christianity with "orthodox". Jesus only founded one church, and it's no coincidence that Rome is the last major denomination holding the line against things like contraception, no-fault divorce and abortion. But I try to frame my arguments in broad ecumenical language that our "separated" brethren are more likely to agree with.

DAE this?

 

[kmoose]

Perhaps state authorities should conduct the investigation with a provision that it can be taken over by the Feds if necessary.

This. I think most, if not all, states have their own State Bureau of Investigation? Let them handle it. If they can't, then let the Feds step in.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Here's a recently released video interview with two former PP clinic managers about the entity's abortion quotas:

Does pizza make a great motivator to end a pregnancy? The latest video from Live Action features former Planned Parenthood managers discussing the financial pressure put on clinics to maximize the revenue stream from their core business — abortions. The pressure wasn’t just limited to the managers either, but also to the women who came to the clinic:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mkxUAR3a_Jc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

“I trained my staff the way that I was trained, which was to really encourage women to choose abortion; to have it at Planned Parenthood, because it counts towards our goal.”

“It sounds kind of crazy, but pizza is a motivator [for getting abortion numbers up].”

Most of this sounds like the kind of sales-management tactics one would see from retail entities or real-estate offices. It’s not quite Glengarry Glen Ross, but it doesn’t sound anything like a health-care entity. The focus in health care is on the patient, not the number of units sold. Yet Planned Parenthood insists that its mission is the former, not the latter.

One of the two former managers interviewed makes that distinction plain when discussing how Planned Parenthood trains managers to deliver the hard sell to women in crisis:

“If they’d say, ‘I’m not able to pay [my bill] today,’ then we would say something like, ‘Well, if you can’t pay $10 today, how are you going to take care of a baby? Have you priced diapers? Do you know how much it costs to buy a car seat? Where would you go for help? There’s no place in Storm Lake (or whatever town they were in), you know, where you can get help as a pregnant mom. So really, don’t you think your smartest choice is termination?’

This points out more clearly what Planned Parenthood actually sells — despair. They want women to panic, to despair, in order to profit off of it. This sales pitch takes a woman at her most vulnerable and heaps the weight of the world on her shoulders … simply to meet a sales goal. At least in Glengarry Glen Ross, no one died.

Lila Rose echoes the same point:

“Planned Parenthood doesn’t have quotas for adoptions. It doesn’t have quotas for prenatal care. But quotas for abortions? Absolutely,” said Lila Rose, president and founder of Live Action. “Planned Parenthood makes a profit off women in the midst of their most difficult experiences and incentivizes ​its staff to take the lives of chil​dren in the womb with pizza parties, paid time off, ​and lunch​es with upper management.​ It’s time to redirect our tax money toward local health clinics that actually provide real care to women, instead of to Planned Parenthood, a corporation focused on upping ​its abortion numbers.”

It’s not health care — it’s business. The federal government shouldn’t subsidize it through Title X tax expenditures, but should direct those funds to health-care providers who focus on the patient, not the revenue stream from abortions. Let Planned Parenthood stand on its own two feet, or not at all.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Here's a recently released video interview with two former PP clinic managers about the entity's abortion quotas:





Most of this sounds like the kind of sales-management tactics one would see from retail entities or real-estate offices. It’s not quite Glengarry Glen Ross, but it doesn’t sound anything like a health-care entity. The focus in health care is on the patient, not the number of units sold. Yet Planned Parenthood insists that its mission is the former, not the latter.

One of the two former managers interviewed makes that distinction plain when discussing how Planned Parenthood trains managers to deliver the hard sell to women in crisis:



This points out more clearly what Planned Parenthood actually sells — despair. They want women to panic, to despair, in order to profit off of it. This sales pitch takes a woman at her most vulnerable and heaps the weight of the world on her shoulders … simply to meet a sales goal. At least in Glengarry Glen Ross, no one died.

Lila Rose echoes the same point:



It’s not health care — it’s business. The federal government shouldn’t subsidize it through Title X tax expenditures, but should direct those funds to health-care providers who focus on the patient, not the revenue stream from abortions. Let Planned Parenthood stand on its own two feet, or not at all.

[/QUOTE]

I'm never able to rep Whiskey enough

 

[connor_in]

Here's a recently released video interview with two former PP clinic managers about the entity's abortion quotas:

I think I might get physically sick...

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm never able to rep Whiskey enough

You can rep me instead then, I posted it first

<3 to Whiskey.

 

[zelezo vlk]

You can rep me instead then, I posted it first

<3 to Whiskey.

Can't rep you either

 

[connor_in]

‘Peak irony’! Guess who’s cheering protesters for blocking Betsy DeVos from doing her job – twitchy.com

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Peak Irony: A women's group celebrating a woman being physically blocked from doing her job. <a href="https://t.co/82Jy0Zlgvq">https://t.co/82Jy0Zlgvq</a></p>— RBe (@RBPundit) <a href="https://twitter.com/RBPundit/status/830093008901115905">February 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Women's March endorses harassment of woman. <a href="https://t.co/XLbtfZ6odd">https://t.co/XLbtfZ6odd</a></p>— Holden (@Holden114) <a href="https://twitter.com/Holden114/status/830097853880102913">February 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[connor_in]

‘Peak irony’! Guess who’s cheering protesters for blocking Betsy DeVos from doing her job – twitchy.com

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Peak Irony: A women's group celebrating a woman being physically blocked from doing her job. <a href="https://t.co/82Jy0Zlgvq">https://t.co/82Jy0Zlgvq</a></p>— RBe (@RBPundit) <a href="https://twitter.com/RBPundit/status/830093008901115905">February 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Women's March endorses harassment of woman. <a href="https://t.co/XLbtfZ6odd">https://t.co/XLbtfZ6odd</a></p>— Holden (@Holden114) <a href="https://twitter.com/Holden114/status/830097853880102913">February 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

CHASER:

Uh oh! Ex Education Secretary Arne Duncan triggers the #Resistance by defending Betsy DeVos – twitchy.com

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Agree or disagree w <a href="https://twitter.com/BetsyDeVos">@BetsyDeVos</a> on any issue, but let's all agree she really needs to be in public schools. Please let her in.</p>— Arne Duncan (@arneduncan) <a href="https://twitter.com/arneduncan/status/830106686723616769">February 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey man, did you notice there's a revolution brewing? Are you in or out? <a href="https://t.co/0M3ZFCxXmW">https://t.co/0M3ZFCxXmW</a></p>— Ruth Osorio (@ruthieoo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ruthieoo/status/830115526206750720">February 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[NDFAN420]

I think I might get physically sick...

Me too, but for the fact that people believe this.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Me too, but for the fact that people believe this.

You've seen evidence that those two women are not in fact former PP clinic managers? Or that they're lying? Please share if so.

 

[ulukinatme]

Me too, but for the fact that people believe this.

You've seen evidence that those two women are not in fact former PP clinic managers? Or that they're lying? Please share if so.

It's clearly fake. PP would never reward people for selling more abortions. Oh, wait...

Planned Parenthood Confirms it Gave Clinic Award for Killing More Babies in Abortions | LifeNews.com

 

[Legacy]

How Irish Women Are Getting Around Abortion Laws (Time)

The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland have some of the most restrictive laws surrounding abortion in the world. The procedure is illegal in both countries; the exception is only to save a pregnant woman’s life. In the midst of a debate in Ireland over whether abortion prohibitions should be reconsidered, a new study released on Monday provides insight into how women on both sides of the border are obtaining abortions—despite the restrictions.

In Northern Ireland, obtaining an abortion is punishable by a life sentence, which is the strictest criminal penalty for abortion in Europe. In Ireland, women could face a 14-year prison sentence, according to Amnesty International. That prompted close to 15,500 women to travel to England or Wales—where it is not illegal to terminate a pregnancy—for the procedure between 2010-2012. If traveling abroad isn’t an option, Irish and Northern Irish women with unwanted pregnancies reportedly seek out ways to self-induce an abortion, like with medication, or carry the fetus to term

Others avail themselves of telemedicine. Since 2006, Women on Web, a Netherlands-based non-profit group, has provided abortion pills—mifepristone and misoprostol—to women living in countries where they cannot access the procedure safely or legally. Since 2006, Women on Web says around 50,000 women worldwide have received abortion pills from a doctor through the mail. They are then guided through the process via online materials.

Taking—but not obtaining—mifepristone and misoprostol for a medical abortion is illegal in Ireland and Northern Ireland. That is in part why public outrage exploded recently when a woman was charged in Northern Ireland for helping her daughter access abortion pills. But Women on Web says customs regulations in most countries around the world allow for people to have medicine for personal use sent to them, and mifepristone and misoprostol are on the list of essential medicines of the World Health Organization.....

 

[NDFAN420]

Equity Feminism must win out

Equity Feminism must win out

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-entertainment/201205/giving-feminism-bad-name

equity feminism vs. gender feminism

Gender feminism and its untenable conception of human nature is evident in many feminist psychologists’ scholarship

An “equity feminist” believes that women should have the full civil and social equalities that are afforded men. Equity feminism has no a priori stance on the origin or existence of differences between the sexes; it is solely a sociopolitical desire for men’s and women’s legal and social equality. Defined in these ways, there is no rational reason why one cannot be both an evolutionary psychologist and a feminist.

Gender feminism is an alternative version of feminism and is the dominant feminist voice in academia and online. And boy (er, I mean girl, er, I mean womyn) do they take issue with feminism being compatible with evolutionary psychology. They ardently argue that psychological differences between the sexes have little or nothing to do with evolution, but instead are largely or solely socially constructed. Whereas equity feminism “makes no commitment regarding open empirical issues in psychology or biology… gender feminism is an empirical doctrine” committed to several unsubstantiated claims about human nature, especially that of the psychological blank slate where sex differences are concerned.

 

[GATTACA!]

True feminism

Le Pen refuses to wear a hijab in Lebanon: "You can pass on my respects to the grand mufti, but I will not cover myself up"

I wish more female politicians would stand up like this.