Clemson fraternity pledge dies during rush run

MPClinton22

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I didn't see this anywhere being discussed, but this story is just ridiculous. Frat pledge doesn't buy frat bros McDonalds breakfast, and then he mysteriously falls over the edge of a bridge into the shallow water and none of the other frat members report anything about this for another 7 hours.

Why anyone would want to be involved with these entities in any capacity is beyond me.

Family of Clemson frat member who died in fall files suit
 

IrishSteelhead

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Clemson fraternity pledge dies during rush run

Why anyone would want to be involved with these entities in any capacity is beyond me. [\QUOTE]


Exactly. Who wants to join a frat that hazes through running? I prefer the type that hazes through drinking.
 

Jimmy3Putt

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I was pushed off a bridge as a joke (ha ha), luckily the water was a bit deeper than in this story.
I fell awkwardly about 30 feet into five feet of murky water.
Half my back was purple and black from the bruising.
To this day I still don't understand why that sociopath pushed me.









In a related story, the person that pushed me later suffered from a broken nose.
 

Rack Em

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I have no respect for fraternities and sororities. None. And I'm willing to overgeneralize on this matter. Shallow associations based on nothing.

When I was a freshman before transferring to ND, the frats would bus only girls to their off campus parties. Apparently I was the only one on campus who found that creepy and disgusting.

In other news, we have a problem with rape culture.
 

zelezo vlk

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Hazing is stupid. Same goes for secret societies.
 
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Bishop2b5

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I was in a frat at Bama my freshman year, but became inactive after that due to getting bored with it eventually and not having enough time for it. I enjoyed my time with them, but I can see why others hate them.

Hazing was never excessive or across the line. Most of it was just running errands, cleaning up after every meal, cleaning the house, etc. Worst thing they did to us was make us rub Vaseline in our hair one night (that crap doesn't come out) and they dropped me off in the middle of nowhere 20 miles from campus one afternoon with nothing on but my underwear. On the plus side, there was lots of free beer, bourbon, and tang.
 

Irish YJ

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I was in a frat at Bama my freshman year, but became inactive after that due to getting bored with it eventually and not having enough time for it. I enjoyed my time with them, but I can see why others hate them.

Hazing was never excessive or across the line. Most of it was just running errands, cleaning up after every meal, cleaning the house, etc. Worst thing they did to us was make us rub Vaseline in our hair one night (that crap doesn't come out) and they dropped me off in the middle of nowhere 20 miles from campus one afternoon with nothing on but my underwear. On the plus side, there was lots of free beer, bourbon, and tang.

tang.jpg
 

Bishop2b5

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Back to the OP and a serious note, that's seriously messed up. It sure sounds like those guys almost immediately realized something was wrong and they'd messed up badly, then conspired to cover the whole thing up. Not only are all concerned about to get sued to hell and back, but there will likely be criminal charges against some of those guys.
 

Booslum31

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All Greek Fraternities at my school have been shut down. Two separate deaths due to pledging. One of the mother's went nation-wide on a campaign to bring attention to the world of fraternity hazing. Can't imagine sending my kid to school and then getting "that" phone call. Useless loss of life! God bless his family!
 

Catholics_Rule

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That's messed up. Frats never appealed to me when I was in college. I went to a frat party once, it was no big deal. But that again, I've never been much of a party goer. I do remember a friend from High School came into town with her boyfriend. He had friends that were members of a frat at WMU. They took us to a BIG frat party and they turned us away. It became this huge ordeal between the frats. It wasn't a big deal to me.
 

IrishJayhawk

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I was in a frat at Bama my freshman year, but became inactive after that due to getting bored with it eventually and not having enough time for it. I enjoyed my time with them, but I can see why others hate them.

Hazing was never excessive or across the line. Most of it was just running errands, cleaning up after every meal, cleaning the house, etc. Worst thing they did to us was make us rub Vaseline in our hair one night (that crap doesn't come out) and they dropped me off in the middle of nowhere 20 miles from campus one afternoon with nothing on but my underwear. On the plus side, there was lots of free beer, bourbon, and tang.

Stupid and legit abuse.
 

IrishLion

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I was in a fraternity. Hazing consisted of "hey new guy, grab me another beer when you get one," and also mandatory shifts as designated drivers for parties. Thug life.
 

NDinL.A.

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Stupid and legit abuse.

Seriously...how effing stupid is that? That's not hazing, that is straight up bullying and like you said, abuse. Besides that, it's stupid. Who gets off on doing that crap besides bullies who are insecure with their own shit?

A former student of mine was a freshman in college last year. His cousin/closest friend pledged at a frat at Cal State Northridge. Those a-holes gave the pledges shitty shoes that didn't fit, and made them go an 18 mile hike (yes, EIGHTEEN miles) with insufficient water supplies. Poor kid died on that hike. My former student was absolutely crushed by his death, as was his entire family.

Hazing is one of the stupidest things in the world...
 

kmoose

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Hazing is one of the stupidest things in the world...

There are varying degrees of hazing, though. And many of them do an excellent job of building esprit de corps amongst groups of (mostly) young men. In the Navy, we had several "hazing" rituals. One was the "tacking on" of crows. When you made Petty Officer Third Class (a rank, and roughly equivalent to a Corporal in the Army), you were considered an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer), and it traditionally is kind of a big deal. When you put the rank on, and you start wearing the "crow" insignia on your sleeve, everyone who is of equal or higher rank is generally permitted to "tack it on", to keep the crow from flying away. This is no more than everyone getting to take a free shot at punching you in the upper arm. It is not unheard of to take 200 or more punches, on the day that you get promoted. There is also the Shellback initiation, on board of Navy ships. When a sailor crosses the equator for the first time, he participates in a day of hazing as an "offering" to the god of the sea: Neptune. There are all kinds of debasing and humiliating tasks he must perform, in order to receive his shellback card. Both of these rituals can be an important part in a young sailor's development as a professional warrior. And it shows his shipmates that he doesn't put himself above the team.

So not all hazing is negative. It is when zealots, sadists, and just plain assholes get carried away that it crosses the line.
 

Domina Nostra

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There are varying degrees of hazing, though. And many of them do an excellent job of building esprit de corps amongst groups of (mostly) young men. In the Navy, we had several "hazing" rituals. One was the "tacking on" of crows. When you made Petty Officer Third Class (a rank, and roughly equivalent to a Corporal in the Army), you were considered an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer), and it traditionally is kind of a big deal. When you put the rank on, and you start wearing the "crow" insignia on your sleeve, everyone who is of equal or higher rank is generally permitted to "tack it on", to keep the crow from flying away. This is no more than everyone getting to take a free shot at punching you in the upper arm. It is not unheard of to take 200 or more punches, on the day that you get promoted. There is also the Shellback initiation, on board of Navy ships. When a sailor crosses the equator for the first time, he participates in a day of hazing as an "offering" to the god of the sea: Neptune. There are all kinds of debasing and humiliating tasks he must perform, in order to receive his shellback card. Both of these rituals can be an important part in a young sailor's development as a professional warrior. And it shows his shipmates that he doesn't put himself above the team.

So not all hazing is negative. It is when zealots, sadists, and just plain assholes get carried away that it crosses the line.

Exactly. Fraternities are generally stupid, but not all "hazing" is dangerous or abusive. A lot of it is just about getting the new class to bond, and give everyone some common stories to bond over. It all depends on the guys.
 

NDinL.A.

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There are varying degrees of hazing, though. And many of them do an excellent job of building esprit de corps amongst groups of (mostly) young men. In the Navy, we had several "hazing" rituals. One was the "tacking on" of crows. When you made Petty Officer Third Class (a rank, and roughly equivalent to a Corporal in the Army), you were considered an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer), and it traditionally is kind of a big deal. When you put the rank on, and you start wearing the "crow" insignia on your sleeve, everyone who is of equal or higher rank is generally permitted to "tack it on", to keep the crow from flying away. This is no more than everyone getting to take a free shot at punching you in the upper arm. It is not unheard of to take 200 or more punches, on the day that you get promoted. There is also the Shellback initiation, on board of Navy ships. When a sailor crosses the equator for the first time, he participates in a day of hazing as an "offering" to the god of the sea: Neptune. There are all kinds of debasing and humiliating tasks he must perform, in order to receive his shellback card. Both of these rituals can be an important part in a young sailor's development as a professional warrior. And it shows his shipmates that he doesn't put himself above the team.

So not all hazing is negative. It is when zealots, sadists, and just plain assholes get carried away that it crosses the line.

Exactly. Fraternities are generally stupid, but not all "hazing" is dangerous or abusive. A lot of it is just about getting the new class to bond, and give everyone some common stories to bond over. It all depends on the guys.

That goes without saying. I think it's pretty obvious what kind of hazing we're talking about.
 

Irish#1

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I was pushed off a bridge as a joke (ha ha), luckily the water was a bit deeper than in this story.
I fell awkwardly about 30 feet into five feet of murky water.
Half my back was purple and black from the bruising.
To this day I still don't understand why that sociopath pushed me.









In a related story, the person that pushed me later suffered from a broken nose.

I assume he walked into a door?
 

ginman

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There are varying degrees of hazing, though. And many of them do an excellent job of building esprit de corps amongst groups of (mostly) young men. In the Navy, we had several "hazing" rituals. One was the "tacking on" of crows. When you made Petty Officer Third Class (a rank, and roughly equivalent to a Corporal in the Army), you were considered an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer), and it traditionally is kind of a big deal. When you put the rank on, and you start wearing the "crow" insignia on your sleeve, everyone who is of equal or higher rank is generally permitted to "tack it on", to keep the crow from flying away. This is no more than everyone getting to take a free shot at punching you in the upper arm. It is not unheard of to take 200 or more punches, on the day that you get promoted. There is also the Shellback initiation, on board of Navy ships. When a sailor crosses the equator for the first time, he participates in a day of hazing as an "offering" to the god of the sea: Neptune. There are all kinds of debasing and humiliating tasks he must perform, in order to receive his shellback card. Both of these rituals can be an important part in a young sailor's development as a professional warrior. And it shows his shipmates that he doesn't put himself above the team.


So not all hazing is negative. It is when zealots, sadists, and just plain assholes get carried away that it crosses the line.

The problem that I have with all hazing, even with that which is intended to create "bonding" is that many aholes look at as a free pass to hurt or bully someone. When I was in the Army, hazing is not what made me bond or feel part of the group. Working together and accomplishing the mission with mutual respect did that. I found the people that were most into hazing were the people I had the least respect for and were the leat reliable. You know inherently who the people are that are supportive and can be trusted without getting punched in the arm 200x. BTW the military also has a huge problem with hazing which the command has been trying to address forever.
 
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IrishinTN

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I was in a fraternity in Bloomsburg University and it was the greatest decision I ever made. My brotherhood was tight then and we are still tight 20 years later helping each other through loss and hard time. I lost one of my brothers last week to a heart attack at the age of 47. He has a 16 month old and no insurance and we have already raised over $4000 for his family, mostly his son, so we could start a college fund for him.

Yes, we hazed and I would endure it again. Ours was like military boot camp while also learning everything about the fraternity, your brothers and pledge brothers or else. You can't call yourself a fraternity if you barely know each others names. And there are some pretty strict rules. If you went overboard, you lost your rights plain and simple. As in anything there are good groups out there, and there are the ones that ruin it for everyone else. Making it through those 5 weeks helped my confidence at a pivotal time in my life to insure me I could do anything I put my mind to.

I also met my wife of of 21 years at a Greek mixer. Not sure where I would be without her. Probably dead.
 

PANDFAN

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I was in a fraternity in Bloomsburg University and it was the greatest decision I ever made. My brotherhood was tight then and we are still tight 20 years later helping each other through loss and hard time. I lost one of my brothers last week to a heart attack at the age of 47. He has a 16 month old and no insurance and we have already raised over $4000 for his family, mostly his son, so we could start a college fund for him.

Yes, we hazed and I would endure it again. Ours was like military boot camp while also learning everything about the fraternity, your brothers and pledge brothers or else. You can't call yourself a fraternity if you barely know each others names. And there are some pretty strict rules. If you went overboard, you lost your rights plain and simple. As in anything there are good groups out there, and there are the ones that ruin it for everyone else. Making it through those 5 weeks helped my confidence at a pivotal time in my life to insure me I could do anything I put my mind to.

I also met my wife of of 21 years at a Greek mixer. Not sure where I would be without her. Probably dead.

no $hit, awesome man...its a 10min drive from my work and house
 

IrishinTN

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no $hit, awesome man...its a 10min drive from my work and house

Yeah, I grew up in PA (Adamstown, between Reading and Lancaster) and moved here 15 months after we graduated. Haven't been able to get back since but would love to and may do so soon.
 

GoIrish41

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no $hit, awesome man...its a 10min drive from my work and house

What town do you live in? You shouldn't be too far from the Penn State Hater and a couple hours from me. My daughter ended up at Millersville but it came down to Bloomsburg and Millersville when she decided on college.
 

PANDFAN

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Yeah, I grew up in PA (Adamstown, between Reading and Lancaster) and moved here 15 months after we graduated. Haven't been able to get back since but would love to and may do so soon.

What town do you live in? You shouldn't be too far from the Penn State Hater and a couple hours from me. My daughter ended up at Millersville but it came down to Bloomsburg and Millersville when she decided on college.

I live in Danville now, grew up in williamsport
 

phgreek

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This stuff makes me sick. I understand the bonding issue...however, there has got to be a better way to receive the freshman class than this kind of shit.
 

GoIrish41

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I live in Danville now, grew up in williamsport

Danville is a nice town. Spent some time there last year when I had a family member in the hospital there.

I've been fishing in the river there, too. Nice sized bass.
 

kmoose

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This stuff makes me sick. I understand the bonding issue...however, there has got to be a better way to receive the freshman class than this kind of shit.

I agree, and there is. I am not trying to excuse anything that this fraternity did. I was simply replying to a blanket statement about hazing being one of the stupidest things in the world. The problem, often, is that the idiots that get out of control when hazing others are usually nothing more than simple bullies. And no one stops them from taking hazing too far, because the idiot has already bullied the others in the group.
 

dshans

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I've been fishing in the river there, too. Nice sized bass.

I found myself reading this as a euphemism for ... well, think about it.

I think that I've been hanging with reprobates far too long.

Oh, wait --- I live alone.

So much for a fabricated Blame Game.
 

IrishinTN

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Keep working on it. You'll get there. We're Irish fans, darn it!
 
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