Car Buying Questions

[IrishSteelhead]

In the market to buy a new auto, and looking at SUVS. I haven't bought one since 2001, so clearly have no idea what the market looks like now. After doing some price comparing/reading reviews, the ones in our price range ($12-20k, wifey wants to spend 20, I want to spend much less) are:

*This would be for a 30k or less miles 2012-2014 model. I'm a "drive it until you kill it" person, so resale values aren't important, but obviously maintenance prices and durability are.

Ford Escape
Kia Sportage
Toyota Rav4
Chevy Captiva
Nissan Rogue
Jeep Patriot or Liberty

Some questions:
Anyone have experience with one of these models?

Any motor heads have a preference on the good/bad in that list?

Is the Kia warranty (10 yr 100k power and drive train for certified used) the worthless scam it sounds like?

Is a 2.4 4 cyl enough for an SUV? (Seems small to me. I'm used to trucks, and these "crossovers" base models all seem to be 4 bangers)

At a dealership, what are some important Do's and Dont's? (car salesmen terrify me, and I'm scared to take a woman with a large baby bump with me, because they will see that and know we need to buy)

Any help would be appreciated. Looking to buy soon, and wanted a battle plan before stepping foot on a lot. I understand all of this information is a few clicks away, but would appreciate the unbiased commentary here. I feel like most car related sites are filled with dealers/others with an agenda.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

Bought my wife the Kia Sorento last year to the month. Really like it and the 4 cylinder under the hood. The warranty was a big selling point. Think it was 100K bumper to bumper and lifetime power train. The lifetime is base on us having all services done at local dealer. No issues so far. Good luck

 

[Cackalacky]

We have a 2005 Escape Hybrid. Overall the car is great. However the escapes from certain years have a cooling pump failure that causes cars to shut down at high speeds. It is in recall right now and included the Mercury Mariner models too. Just be careful with th escapes and make sure they have that fixed. Otherwise I have no complaints and it has been a great car for our family.

 

[Fbolt]

Do your research on what you actually decide to buy and if you feel like it's not a good deal, always be prepared to walk. Always.

There is a ton of room in used cars for haggling and I love to haggle. However, some prefer the CarMax approach and go with their one price no haggle sales.

 

[phork]

Don't forget the Carfax (if its used). Frankly unless your wife and yourself are hauling stuff or going off road, a 4cylinder will be fine for you. Test drive, Test drive, Test drive. Everything you are looking for, test it. Get on a highway and punch it to see if you can still accelerate at 70mph or more to see if you can get by stuff if you have to.

I really don't think you can go wrong with todays vehicles, quality has been pused right to the max for the most part. But there are websites you can use to track recalls and stuff like that to get a better idea what you are getting into.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I don't have specific experience with the ones you listed, but a lot of the SUV 4 cyl can pump out a decent 200 hp. These aren't the 4 cyl they used to be.

Kids? Some of these have smaller back seats.

The Kia warranty isn't the scam it sounds. But often to keep it covered you do need to have the maintenance done at a Kia dealership. Also often times certified vehicles get free maitinence to a certain mileage. Both our last 2 vehicles were certified used and both were dealer serviced for free up to 60k miles.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Don't negotiate based on a potential "monthly payment", they'll just find ways to screw you.

Before you talk trade in, down payment etc have them to agree on the price you want.

When I bought my wife's civic in 09' I remember the whole sales staff staring at our table while I went back and forth with the salesman and the manager. I knew what price I wanted and I wouldn't talk down payment or trade-in until they agreed on it. It gets awkward and uncomfortable but this is your money, you work hard for it and they want to take as much of it as they can. I would if I was in their shoes.

I even got to the point where I thanked them for their time and told my wife we're leaving. That's the ultimate power move. They don't want you leaving the building without a deal.

Find your optimum price, be firm and get them to agree on it before you talk anything else. Otherwise they'll try and factor your down payment and trade in into your ideal price.

Just do your research on Edmund's or something like that and arrive with a price between the dealer invoice and the msrp.. BE FIRM! If they want to play games just thank them for their time and tell them your going to look elsewhere and watch what happens

 

[Monk]

I just bought a 2011 Chevy Traverse with 46K for 20K. I know it is not what you are looking for , but I love this vehicle. We got captain chairs in the back and with the arrival of our second child the space in the back was much needed. We had a 2004ish GMC Envoy and the room in the Traverse is so much more it's amazing.

As someone else mentioned carfax whatever car you are planning on buying. Ask the dealership for the carfax first as they should have either a carfax or autocheck (carfax competitor). Whichever one they don't give you buy it yourself. On the carfax it should say where the vehicle was serviced and what type of service has been performed on the vehicle. Call that service center and ask about the vehicle in question. Ask about leaks, accident repairs, if there are any recommended repairs for the vehicle in their computers? That is what put my mind at easy as the place I called said it was a good car and they weren't selling it to me. Also take it to your local mechanic to have them look it over (flood damage, frame damage, leaks, etc). This is what I did and we have had our vehicle for 7 months now and love it.

One issue with the Traverse if you decide to look into them is they have a faulty water pump. This is repairable under the powertrain warranty, but if you don't catch it you could be replacing an engine. Warranty is 5 year 100K powertrain.

 

[ndfi78]

Don't negotiate based on a potential "monthly payment", they'll just find ways to screw you.

Before you talk trade in, down payment etc have them to agree on the price you want.

When I bought my wife's civic in 09' I remember the whole sales staff staring at our table while I went back and forth with the salesman and the manager. I knew what price I wanted and I wouldn't talk down payment or trade-in until they agreed on it. It gets awkward and uncomfortable but this is your money, you work hard for it and they want to take as much of it as they can. I would if I was in their shoes.

I even got to the point where I thanked them for their time and told my wife we're leaving. That's the ultimate power move. They don't want you leaving the building without a deal.

Find your optimum price, be firm and get them to agree on it before you talk anything else. Otherwise they'll try and factor your down payment and trade in into your ideal price.

Just do your research on Edmund's or something like that and arrive with a price between the dealer invoice and the msrp.. BE FIRM! If they want to play games just thank them for their time and tell them your going to look elsewhere and watch what happens

This is spot on, DO NOT TALK about payments, etc until the end. Nail down the purchase price, then trade in, then move on to the rest. If you have a CarMax near you, you can go there and they will give you a quote to buy your old car that is good for 7 days. That way if the dealership you are at won't match what they quote you can just go sell it to CarMax.

I'm a big fan of the Edmunds True Market Value also. Used Cars: For Sale, Appraisals & Certified Pre-Owned | Edmunds.com

You should also get on http://www.lendingtree.com or something similar and get pre-approved for a loan. Know what rate you can get so you are armed with that info before hand. Let them give you a rate quote and if it is not as good as what you were quoted online, tell them they have to match.

The biggest thing is don't be afraid to piss them off. Like WildMan said, it's your money. Be polite but firm.

I love buying cars, if you were in DFW I'd go with you.

 

[wizards8507]

Even better than negotiating or not negotiating based on monthly payments... save your money and pay cash so you don't HAVE a monthly payment, even if that means waiting a couple of months and/or buying something a step below what you had in mind. I became "debt free" about 10 months ago and it's one of the best decisions of my life. It's amazing how liberating it is to have zero car, student loan, or credit card bills every month.

 

[Monk]

Even better than negotiating or not negotiating based on monthly payments... save your money and pay cash so you don't HAVE a monthly payment, even if that means waiting a couple of months and/or buying something a step below what you had in mind. I became "debt free" about 10 months ago and it's one of the best decisions of my life. It's amazing how liberating it is to have zero car, student loan, or credit card bills every month.

You should still negotiate the price regardless.

 

[wizards8507]

You should still negotiate the price regardless.

No doubt.

 

[Wild Bill]

Drive a Honda CRV and a Subaru Forester. They are both reliable, fuel efficient and the Subaru has a top notch all wheel drive system.

If you don't mind doing some leg work, buy a car off of craigslist. There is no reason to pay retail if you're going to buy a used car. You'd save yourself around 20%. The rub is doing the legwork to find a car and then financing it would be a bit more difficult. Bank of America makes it easy to finance used car purchases from an individual. Just call them and they'll take you through the process. It takes about 48 hours to complete a transaction.

If you are having trouble pricing a vehicle, try to get a NADA subscription for the month that you purchase your car. Plug in the VIN and you'll instantly see what the car is worth on a trade in or retail. Sidenote: As soon as you see the mark up on these cars, you'll probably run a search on craigslist.

And if you do buy a car from a dealership, go on the LAST DAY OF THE MONTH. Find the car you want and show up on the last day of the month and you will get a better price. They will lose money on a car, at times, just to get it off the lot at the end of the month.

I have a NADA subscription and would be more than happy to run some VINs for you. Just get them to me ahead of time so I have a chance to see the PM.

Good luck on your search and keeping Mrs. Irishsteelhead under $20k.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Car Buying Questions

Reps to all. Thanks for the info. I'm definitely not an impulse buy kind of person (unless it's booze), so I'll be sure to leave every stone unturned.

 

[yankeehater]

I just bought a car in the last two months (2014 Ford Edge) and I also have a family member in the after market business (Extended Warranty, etc.) so hopefully I can help.

I went into the experience like you looking at several models, but figured used would be the best deal which turned out not to be the case this go around.

Are you a Costco member? Most dealerships offer Costco pricing. This eliminates most of the back and forth at the dealership. You go onto the Costco site and I believe you click on auto or service. You enter the specific make and model and it will direct you to local dealerships (based on the zip you enter) that honor Costco member pricing. Costco will send your info to that dealer. For my car, the Costco price was $300 (think that is the standard) below invoice which turned out to be $4000-$5000 off the actual sticker. Not sure why they don't just do this to begin with.

Ford offers rebates on their cars. These rebates apply to individual cars and not the make or model. I.E. one Edge can have rebates up to $3250 and another up to $4750 for example. It just depends on how bad they need to move a specific vehicle.

Once you enter the F & I (Finance & Insurance) Manager's office this is where they make a lot of their money he/she will really try to sell you everything. My opinion on the after market items (ext. warranty, body finish, etc.) is some are good some bad, but all are high margin for the dealer.

When all said and done, I paid approx. $1000 more for the 2014 than I would have for the same model low mile 2013 or 2012.

I did use Edmunds and other sites. Be warned...although helpful once you enter your info which you must do to see pricing I had six dealers call within a minute trying to sell me the car I entered.

I sold my used car to Carmax where I had purchased it originally. Both experiences were good. They gave me more than a dealer would for a trade in. Right around low Kelly Blue Book.

When it comes down to it, do your homework and have all the info. I only went to the dealership to test drive the cars. Once I knew what I wanted, I had the dealer order the car and I just picked it up. I gave them everything I was looking for and one dealership did it and two could not.

Hope I helped a little.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

STAY AWAY FROM THE JEEP LIBERTY!

There's a website, I believe it's jeeplibertyheaven.com, dedicated to that steaming pile of an SUV.

The wifey has one and I'm ready to drive it off south mountain.

 

[#1rish]

Echoing a lot of what others have said in here, but when you go to a dealership, always go in with the mindset of that they need YOU. Have those other models in mind and mention how you are thinking of getting X over their car. They need to make the sale, they'll literally (almost) do anything to get you to stay. Just stay firm. My fiancee and I bought our first car a month ago, and from when we started talking, they offered us $275/mo and $3000 down. We ended up driving the car off the lot for $170/mo and $1500 down.

 

[SoIll]

Buy American

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Reps to all. Thanks for the info. I'm definitely not an impulse buy kind of person (unless it's booze), so I'll be sure to leave every stone unturned.

I would suggest turning the stones.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't have much first-hand experience with automotive repair, so I rely heavily on Consumer Reports. Here's what they have to say about the models you listed:

Ford Escape - Used to be terrible, but recent models have gotten better reviews. Poor reliability record makes it a risky purchase though.

Kia Sportage - Worth considering if you like how it rides. Good reliability, though below average customer satisfaction. There are better options for the price.

Toyota Rav4 - Best of the models listed, but you're going to pay a premium for the brand. Will be difficult to find a good one for under $20k in the years you're looking for.

Chevy Captiva - No data. "Small SUV" is a pretty squirrely class burdened with a lot of crappy models, so I wouldn't take a flier on an unknown.

Nissan Rogue - Best value of the ones you listed. Rated comparably to the Rav4, but less expensive; especially when buying used.

Jeep Patriot or Liberty - RUN, don't walk, in the opposite direction. By far the worst ratings of the models listed. Reliability and owner satisfaction well below average.

As for the models Bill listed:

Honda CRV - Good, but same brand premium issue as Toyota.

Suburu Forester - By far the best rated model in this class. If you're going to max out your budget, this is the car to do it for.

Rogue for cost; Forester for quality.

As for negotiating tactics, don't bother going to dealerships except to test drive. Once you've settled on the model you want, just email the nearby fleet managers and play them against each other. It completely flips the normally shitty power dynamic in this process. When I was shopping for my Honda Odyssey a few years ago, I quickly and painlessly got a price well within my range utilizing this method.

 

[wizards8507]

STAY AWAY FROM THE JEEP LIBERTY!

There's a website, I believe it's jeeplibertyheaven.com, dedicated to that steaming pile of an SUV.

The wifey has one and I'm ready to drive it off south mountain.

Same with the Jeep Patriot. We had a Grand Cherokee that we loved but we rented a Patriot one time and we were ready to wrap it around a pole after three days.

 

[NDRock]

Buy American

Honest question, is it better to buy a car made by an American company but built overseas or a foreign car built in America? I prefer a foreign car built in America.

 

[irishtrain]

In the market to buy a new auto, and looking at SUVS. I haven't bought one since 2001, so clearly have no idea what the market looks like now. After doing some price comparing/reading reviews, the ones in our price range ($12-20k, wifey wants to spend 20, I want to spend much less) are:

*This would be for a 30k or less miles 2012-2014 model. I'm a "drive it until you kill it" person, so resale values aren't important, but obviously maintenance prices and durability are.

Ford Escape
Kia Sportage
Toyota Rav4
Chevy Captiva
Nissan Rogue
Jeep Patriot or Liberty

Some questions:
Anyone have experience with one of these models?

Any motor heads have a preference on the good/bad in that list?

Is the Kia warranty (10 yr 100k power and drive train for certified used) the worthless scam it sounds like?

Is a 2.4 4 cyl enough for an SUV? (Seems small to me. I'm used to trucks, and these "crossovers" base models all seem to be 4 bangers)

At a dealership, what are some important Do's and Dont's? (car salesmen terrify me, and I'm scared to take a woman with a large baby bump with me, because they will see that and know we need to buy)

Any help would be appreciated. Looking to buy soon, and wanted a battle plan before stepping foot on a lot. I understand all of this information is a few clicks away, but would appreciate the unbiased commentary here. I feel like most car related sites are filled with dealers/others with an agenda.

Helped my girlfriend buy a used Lexus in this category and had tremendous service on it and bought it with around 30,000 miles. If you hold your ground and say no they will call you back-if they feel you are in love with the car they will used it against you. I've had great experiences dealing with car folks but you must set the rules for you and say no. You must be ready to walk away if you don't like the deal.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Honest question, is it better to buy a car made by an American company but built overseas or a foreign car built in America? I prefer a foreign car built in America.

I think people would be surprised if they knew what percentage of an American vehicle was built overseas. And the same for Foreign automakers.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Helped my girlfriend buy a used Lexus in this category and had tremendous service on it and bought it with around 30,000 miles. If you hold your ground and say no they will call you back-if they feel you are in love with the car they will used it against you. I've had great experiences dealing with car folks but you must set the rules for you and say no. You must be ready to walk away if you don't like the deal.

And to go along with this, if you take your wife make sure she is on the same page. If the salesman sees a difference in opinion, it's like blood in the water.

 

[kmoose]

Bite the bullet, step up, and buy a new Subaru Forester or Outback. It's really not that much more than you are already talking about spending.

 

[Emcee77]

Bite the bullet, step up, and buy a new Subaru Forester or Outback. It's really not that much more than you are already talking about spending.

This is what I'm going to do in a few years when I have to put my Durango out to pasture. Well, first I will cry (salud, compadre), then I will get a Subaru SUV.

 

[Irish#1]

Don't negotiate based on a potential "monthly payment", they'll just find ways to screw you.

Before you talk trade in, down payment etc have them to agree on the price you want.

When I bought my wife's civic in 09' I remember the whole sales staff staring at our table while I went back and forth with the salesman and the manager. I knew what price I wanted and I wouldn't talk down payment or trade-in until they agreed on it. It gets awkward and uncomfortable but this is your money, you work hard for it and they want to take as much of it as they can. I would if I was in their shoes.

I even got to the point where I thanked them for their time and told my wife we're leaving. That's the ultimate power move. They don't want you leaving the building without a deal.

Find your optimum price, be firm and get them to agree on it before you talk anything else. Otherwise they'll try and factor your down payment and trade in into your ideal price.

Just do your research on Edmund's or something like that and arrive with a price between the dealer invoice and the msrp.. BE FIRM! If they want to play games just thank them for their time and tell them your going to look elsewhere and watch what happens

I think we're brothers. I do the same thing. I once had a sales manager come up and say, "You won't haggle over $75 difference will you?" I said "You're damn right I will. If anyone can absorb the $75, it's you guys."

I haven't read all the posts, so if this has been mentioned I apologize. A lot of the 4cyl today have turbochargers to get the power boost. More than likely it means you need to run premium. My 2008 Mazda CX7 requires it and I can tell a difference if I use something else. Premium may or may not be an issue for you. Just wanted you to be aware.

I personally think you should buy from Andy Mohr. I think the chick that does his commercials is cute.

 

[RDU Irish]

Consider a Hyundai Santa Fe - we used to drive those and loved them. Newer models are much better built than older ones too.

Tucson may be their smaller SUV which would be more comparable to the ones you listed.

As for buying strategy, KBB.com is great. Find a couple similar ones at dealers and make them fight over you. I was surprised when we went to buy a minivan looking to buy one a year or two old with up to 30k miles like you, we got a new one for about the same price as the used ones. The dealer incentives gave them a lot more room than you would think.

We paid a couple grand more for new but saved two years, 20,000 miles and get free oil changes for life. Manicure Mondays means the wife spends less at the nail joint too. Local dealer matched the price from a dealer that was going to deliver to my driveway from over 100 miles away. New is a commodity.

Also, internet prices on used cars are actually sticky. Tried to deal and they wouldn't budge, except one. The internet price dropped exactly to what they came back with. They are contractually unable to beat those prices in many cases. Pretty much every car we found online would be marked 10% higher on the windshield at the dealer and they would act ignorant of the internet price until you brought it up.

 

[Irish#1]

As for negotiating tactics, don't bother going to dealerships except to test drive. Once you've settled on the model you want, just email the nearby fleet managers and play them against each other. It completely flips the normally shitty power dynamic in this process. When I was shopping for my Honda Odyssey a few years ago, I quickly and painlessly got a price well within my range utilizing this method.

The best deal I ever got was on a new 1987 Taurus Wagon. I went and looked at one and left. The dealer called me a couple of days later. I went back and forth on the phone for a couple of days when they finally agreed to my number. They want you there for the touchy feely, get excited, need to have it aspect. Whiskey's advice takes the emotions out of the equation.